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What can be learned........

slo1
Posts: 4,364
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4/4/2014 9:40:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
What can be learned or inferred about objective morals when they have been subjective in humanities existence according to the bible?

Let's take adultery. Adultery was condoned and promoted by God pre-Moses. The 10 commandments then change the moral standard.

Another example maybe the moral definition of justice. Pre-Moses executions are very much promoted for various behaviors. Moses again brings, thou shall not murder. It tightens up some of the tougher eye-for-eye justice system, but the principle of eye-for-eye remains until Jesus, when the standard for justice becomes more gentile.

How can we claim standards from God are objective when they have not been consistent over time?
Yoshi
Posts: 71
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4/4/2014 10:08:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 9:40:30 AM, slo1 wrote:
What can be learned or inferred about objective morals when they have been subjective in humanities existence according to the bible?

Let's take adultery. Adultery was condoned and promoted by God pre-Moses. The 10 commandments then change the moral standard.

Another example maybe the moral definition of justice. Pre-Moses executions are very much promoted for various behaviors. Moses again brings, thou shall not murder. It tightens up some of the tougher eye-for-eye justice system, but the principle of eye-for-eye remains until Jesus, when the standard for justice becomes more gentile.

How can we claim standards from God are objective when they have not been consistent over time?

We don't claim standards from the bible, things that have come from the bible we are getting rid of and a prime example would be slavery.
Measure
Posts: 142
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4/6/2014 2:25:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 9:40:30 AM, slo1 wrote:
What can be learned or inferred about objective morals when they have been subjective in humanities existence according to the bible?

Let's take adultery. Adultery was condoned and promoted by God pre-Moses. The 10 commandments then change the moral standard.

Another example maybe the moral definition of justice. Pre-Moses executions are very much promoted for various behaviors. Moses again brings, thou shall not murder. It tightens up some of the tougher eye-for-eye justice system, but the principle of eye-for-eye remains until Jesus, when the standard for justice becomes more gentile.

How can we claim standards from God are objective when they have not been consistent over time?

God is the same , HE deals with us where we are at. These Hebrews were a bunch of pagans in a way, slaves in a foreign land, the mentality of that land. This is what they could understand, and in time they were to be taught a new way. When you have a baby you don't reason with it, you are the law, and sometimes are perceived as harsh, but it is better than a greater injury or an example to others. Sometimes the police give you a warning and at other times they lay down the maximum of the law. Does it always seem fair?, but they have their reasons, does it change the law?
Sswdwm
Posts: 1,398
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4/6/2014 2:27:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Biblical morality is a perfectly good source of morality.... it's just a few thousand years outdated.

We know better now.
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slo1
Posts: 4,364
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4/6/2014 3:43:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 2:25:56 PM, Measure wrote:
At 4/4/2014 9:40:30 AM, slo1 wrote:
What can be learned or inferred about objective morals when they have been subjective in humanities existence according to the bible?

Let's take adultery. Adultery was condoned and promoted by God pre-Moses. The 10 commandments then change the moral standard.

Another example maybe the moral definition of justice. Pre-Moses executions are very much promoted for various behaviors. Moses again brings, thou shall not murder. It tightens up some of the tougher eye-for-eye justice system, but the principle of eye-for-eye remains until Jesus, when the standard for justice becomes more gentile.

How can we claim standards from God are objective when they have not been consistent over time?

God is the same , HE deals with us where we are at. These Hebrews were a bunch of pagans in a way, slaves in a foreign land, the mentality of that land. This is what they could understand, and in time they were to be taught a new way. When you have a baby you don't reason with it, you are the law, and sometimes are perceived as harsh, but it is better than a greater injury or an example to others. Sometimes the police give you a warning and at other times they lay down the maximum of the law. Does it always seem fair?, but they have their reasons, does it change the law?

So in other words everyone born before Moses was not capable to understand it was morally wrong to have sexual relationship with anyone other their their wife?

It does not seem that complex of a notion.

In addition it supports that we don't have objective universal morals. Might they change again per Gods behest?

On another note, if one believes in a literal creation story, the same standard was not applied to Adam and Eve who did not understand the difference between right or wrong.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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4/6/2014 3:49:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/4/2014 9:40:30 AM, slo1 wrote:
What can be learned or inferred about objective morals when they have been subjective in humanities existence according to the bible?

Let's take adultery. Adultery was condoned and promoted by God pre-Moses. The 10 commandments then change the moral standard.

Another example maybe the moral definition of justice. Pre-Moses executions are very much promoted for various behaviors. Moses again brings, thou shall not murder. It tightens up some of the tougher eye-for-eye justice system, but the principle of eye-for-eye remains until Jesus, when the standard for justice becomes more gentile.

How can we claim standards from God are objective when they have not been consistent over time?

The 10 standards God sent down were temporary, for the Israelite tribe of that time. There were still moral obligations to God for the Israelites when they had none of the commandments.
slo1
Posts: 4,364
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4/6/2014 3:56:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 3:49:55 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/4/2014 9:40:30 AM, slo1 wrote:
What can be learned or inferred about objective morals when they have been subjective in humanities existence according to the bible?

Let's take adultery. Adultery was condoned and promoted by God pre-Moses. The 10 commandments then change the moral standard.

Another example maybe the moral definition of justice. Pre-Moses executions are very much promoted for various behaviors. Moses again brings, thou shall not murder. It tightens up some of the tougher eye-for-eye justice system, but the principle of eye-for-eye remains until Jesus, when the standard for justice becomes more gentile.

How can we claim standards from God are objective when they have not been consistent over time?

The 10 standards God sent down were temporary, for the Israelite tribe of that time. There were still moral obligations to God for the Israelites when they had none of the commandments.

The question is why those moral obligations whether communicated via tablet or other method to mankind changed over time and how you can be certain those standards are currently locked down today?
Measure
Posts: 142
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4/6/2014 9:35:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 3:43:24 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 4/6/2014 2:25:56 PM, Measure wrote:
At 4/4/2014 9:40:30 AM, slo1 wrote:
What can be learned or inferred about objective morals when they have been subjective in humanities existence according to the bible?

Let's take adultery. Adultery was condoned and promoted by God pre-Moses. The 10 commandments then change the moral standard.

Another example maybe the moral definition of justice. Pre-Moses executions are very much promoted for various behaviors. Moses again brings, thou shall not murder. It tightens up some of the tougher eye-for-eye justice system, but the principle of eye-for-eye remains until Jesus, when the standard for justice becomes more gentile.

How can we claim standards from God are objective when they have not been consistent over time?

God is the same , HE deals with us where we are at. These Hebrews were a bunch of pagans in a way, slaves in a foreign land, the mentality of that land. This is what they could understand, and in time they were to be taught a new way. When you have a baby you don't reason with it, you are the law, and sometimes are perceived as harsh, but it is better than a greater injury or an example to others. Sometimes the police give you a warning and at other times they lay down the maximum of the law. Does it always seem fair?, but they have their reasons, does it change the law?

So in other words everyone born before Moses was not capable to understand it was morally wrong to have sexual relationship with anyone other their their wife?

Sorry if you got that out of what I wrote. There is a thing called the learning curve and mercy. Since I don't know Russian and I lived in Russia there would be some lenience on the understanding of some similar wording or sound or phrase that I may use wrong. A custom, trait, habit, may have to be altered to go the right way, relearning a right way etc. If a cop gives you a warning, even if you break the law, does that mean you did not have the capacity to understand the speed limit, for example?

It does not seem that complex of a notion.

A grade 12 student sees a grade 4 student not all that complex, but it mat be for that grade 4 student.

In addition it supports that we don't have objective universal morals. Might they change again per Gods behest?

On another note, if one believes in a literal creation story, the same standard was not applied to Adam and Eve who did not understand the difference between right or wrong.

The same standard was applied to them! They knew the difference!