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A New Band: Challenging Christian Norms

ChristianPunk
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4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.

Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/6/2014 9:38:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.


Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?

doesn't sound christian at all...
unless you take the meaning of christian as a rebelling against the status quo...

christ was depicted as an elitist too...
consider matthew 10:14,15
the parable of the 10 minas
and how he treats a believing canaanite woman in matthew 15

that is why i'm having difficulty understanding why you would call this "christian"
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
annanicole
Posts: 19,790
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4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.
philochristos
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4/6/2014 10:04:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
How are you going to reconcile tolerance and unity with protests and rebellion? And what about Romans 13:1?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Measure
Posts: 142
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4/6/2014 10:14:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.


Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?

That's like saying , I'm a christian atheist. Show me a scripture that JESUS would back that up?
ChristianPunk
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4/6/2014 10:16:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:04:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
How are you going to reconcile tolerance and unity with protests and rebellion? And what about Romans 13:1?

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The power for me comes from God and me. Not the others who could decieve.

And it's usually conservatives and hypocrites who destroy equality and tolerance. Conservatives don't want gay marriage legal, abortion, and wants to keep evolution out of school or be seen as good science.
ChristianPunk
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4/6/2014 10:27:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:14:07 PM, Measure wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.


Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?

That's like saying , I'm a christian atheist. Show me a scripture that JESUS would back that up?

John 2:15
sktahta07
Posts: 1
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4/6/2014 10:30:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.


Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?

1. What bands would influence you the most? Like what are you gonna sound like? 2. Don't do those "mini skits". Just play your music and give crowd a message. 3. Christian band? eh idk just depends on your lyrics. Try not to bash anyone while on stage.
annanicole
Posts: 19,790
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4/6/2014 10:51:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:16:23 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:04:59 PM, philochristos wrote:
How are you going to reconcile tolerance and unity with protests and rebellion? And what about Romans 13:1?

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

The power for me comes from God and me. Not the others who could decieve.

The power comes from God, but is vested in governments, the "powers that be".

Verse 1 is further explained by verse 3: "For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same"

Rom 13: 1 is not talking about "God and me": it is talking about civil authorities, and is saying that they are ordained by God - and their power ultimately comes from God.

The New Testament knows nothing of a Christian anarchist.

As an addendum, there is no point in teaching creationism nor evolution in the public school system, really. I'm not saying either one or both is "good science" or "bad science". I'm saying that the subject is not even within the purview or scope of public school science classes. I mean, really! I assure you that I could teach grades 8 - 12 high school science and never even mention creation or evolution, and not a single student would be adversely affected.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
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4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Measure
Posts: 142
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4/6/2014 10:57:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:27:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:14:07 PM, Measure wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.


Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?

That's like saying , I'm a christian atheist. Show me a scripture that JESUS would back that up?

John 2:15

How does it back it up? Explain! Are you going to do this in a church where they are doing something similar? This wasn't an act for JESUS. Going about doing good was JESUS' thing. Was there political, religious , financial turmoil in CHRIST's day? How did HE deal with it? Selflessness!
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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4/6/2014 11:03:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:30:30 PM, sktahta07 wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.


Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?

1. What bands would influence you the most? Like what are you gonna sound like? 2. Don't do those "mini skits". Just play your music and give crowd a message. 3. Christian band? eh idk just depends on your lyrics. Try not to bash anyone while on stage.

1. The Germs, INFIRMITIES, Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, and The Casualities.

2. The mini skits are for later. It's not every show. It's like if Santorum runs for office. Then I'll go on stage and have two fans be up there participating. I'll be like "You have no choice but to be a Christian! Evolution is satanic! America is a nation for christians, not atheists!" I basically try to make certain people look like the tyrants they are.

3. Lyrics are sometimes praise or songs that focus on social issues like judging others. One song I wrote was a dedication to the troops who actually fight for freedom since our drummer is a National Guard. And here's lyrics to one song.

I Don't Need Sex

All I see today is shameful society/ robbing the youth of purity!
Do you really wanna know what I've seen/ You will think its just a bad dream!
I saw a girl change for this abusive jerk/ Now she is only known for her twerk!
I can understand if you wanna look fresh/ But remember its spirit not flesh!
It makes me sick when it's all about the sex/ Now it's about sexy girls and guys who flex!

I don't need sex! (6)

Now that the girls have become obsessed with trends/ It's the means of humanity's ends!
Why is it always about the brands/ It is something I won't understand!
Your only feeding the greedy pockets in famine/ Corporate men only serve Gammon!
That's not the God I wanna worship/ It's his fault that teens emptied that clip!
Boys and girls thinking suicide is the answer/ Perfection contests is the brand new cancer!

I don't need sex! (x6)

The outside doesn't matter. Sure. You can buy some AXE to smell good for your girlfriend or get a new hair style for your boyfriend. But in the end, what are you doing it for? Conforming or being individual? Paul warned us not to conform to the ways of the world, but to be transformed by the renewing of our own mind. This world says sexy people will succeed and the world even promotes sex through media, brands, and social culture. I've rebelled against all of this as not just a Christian but a straight edger. Don't be in a promiscuous lifestyle by having sex. Don't drink. Don't smoke. Don't do drugs. I don't need it. And I especially don't need to bang a random chick before being committed to her.

I don't need sex (x6)
ChristianPunk
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4/6/2014 11:13:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?

Proverbs 14:15

15 The simple believes every word,
But the prudent considers well his steps.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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4/6/2014 11:16:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 10:57:16 PM, Measure wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:27:33 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:14:07 PM, Measure wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:18:06 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I am a Christian who is planning on starting a Christian punk band that has an anarchist like philosophy. Here's how we've planned our songs and shows to be like.

Speak the horrorifying truth of politics and modern religious organizations.

Display mini skits, mocking fascists and social issues (Ex. Dressing up as a bully who picks on kids, being a hypocritical Christian, being a cop who beats up innocent people)

Play loud and raw music with a message of rebellion and questioning authority on Earth.

Showing tolerance and unity with all kinds of people instead of sticking with Christian venues and social cliques.

And

Intense protests for freedom and equality between theists and atheists rights.


Does this sound like a good Christian band in your opinion or is this the sound of a brand new cult?

Discuss what pros and negatives you see. Do you think this view of Christianity is more Christian?

That's like saying , I'm a christian atheist. Show me a scripture that JESUS would back that up?

John 2:15

How does it back it up? Explain! Are you going to do this in a church where they are doing something similar? This wasn't an act for JESUS. Going about doing good was JESUS' thing. Was there political, religious , financial turmoil in CHRIST's day? How did HE deal with it? Selflessness!

There was political and religious corruption in his time. And he did a movement revolves around peace and standing up. He preached of peace, but at the same time, spoke very militant like at times. It's that when you see a wake up call. You can't settle only peace or only violent, the movement of a new generation needs both. And the rebirth of Christianity needs it.
annanicole
Posts: 19,790
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4/6/2014 11:18:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 11:13:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?

Proverbs 14:15

15 The simple believes every word,
But the prudent considers well his steps.

That's not in the New Testament.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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4/7/2014 8:18:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/6/2014 11:18:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:13:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?

Proverbs 14:15

15 The simple believes every word,
But the prudent considers well his steps.

That's not in the New Testament.

Acts 5:29

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Romans 12:2: Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

And then there's give to Caesar what is his, but give to God what is his.

I will pay taxes, but only cuz I was told by God, not the government. I won't obey a government that lets cops beat anybody up by abuse or have a chance to be corrupted.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
annanicole
Posts: 19,790
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4/7/2014 12:25:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/7/2014 8:18:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:18:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:13:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?

Proverbs 14:15

15 The simple believes every word,
But the prudent considers well his steps.

That's not in the New Testament.

Acts 5:29

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Romans 12:2: Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Those would be true, and of course must be viewed in light of Rom 13: 1-3. The civil powers, the government, is ordained by God and is to be obeyed to the extent that it is not requiring a person to sin. If it gets to the point at which the government is asking you to sin, then "we ought to obey God rather than men."

And then there's give to Caesar what is his, but give to God what is his.

I will pay taxes, but only cuz I was told by God, not the government. I won't obey a government that lets cops beat anybody up by abuse or have a chance to be corrupted.

So if a government allows something, or does something, or permits something that you consider to be sinful or immoral, you've just decided that you won't obey it even though you know it was ordained by God. Not only that, you take it so far as to say "have a chance to be corrupted."

What precisely is your explanation of Rom 13: 1-3?

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

... and that passage has nothing whatsoever to do with any civil government.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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4/7/2014 4:41:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/7/2014 12:25:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/7/2014 8:18:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:18:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:13:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?

Proverbs 14:15

15 The simple believes every word,
But the prudent considers well his steps.

That's not in the New Testament.

Acts 5:29

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Romans 12:2: Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Those would be true, and of course must be viewed in light of Rom 13: 1-3. The civil powers, the government, is ordained by God and is to be obeyed to the extent that it is not requiring a person to sin. If it gets to the point at which the government is asking you to sin, then "we ought to obey God rather than men."

And then there's give to Caesar what is his, but give to God what is his.

I will pay taxes, but only cuz I was told by God, not the government. I won't obey a government that lets cops beat anybody up by abuse or have a chance to be corrupted.

So if a government allows something, or does something, or permits something that you consider to be sinful or immoral, you've just decided that you won't obey it even though you know it was ordained by God. Not only that, you take it so far as to say "have a chance to be corrupted."

What precisely is your explanation of Rom 13: 1-3?

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

... and that passage has nothing whatsoever to do with any civil government.

A. Government is greedy and selfish and will force you to be a sinner or saint. Both not good things to force.

B. You can follow Apostle Paul, but I follow Jesus. And look into Revelations, where several incidents of churches are corrupted.
annanicole
Posts: 19,790
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4/7/2014 7:14:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/7/2014 4:41:28 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/7/2014 12:25:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/7/2014 8:18:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:18:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:13:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?

Proverbs 14:15

15 The simple believes every word,
But the prudent considers well his steps.

That's not in the New Testament.

Acts 5:29

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Romans 12:2: Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Those would be true, and of course must be viewed in light of Rom 13: 1-3. The civil powers, the government, is ordained by God and is to be obeyed to the extent that it is not requiring a person to sin. If it gets to the point at which the government is asking you to sin, then "we ought to obey God rather than men."

And then there's give to Caesar what is his, but give to God what is his.

I will pay taxes, but only cuz I was told by God, not the government. I won't obey a government that lets cops beat anybody up by abuse or have a chance to be corrupted.

So if a government allows something, or does something, or permits something that you consider to be sinful or immoral, you've just decided that you won't obey it even though you know it was ordained by God. Not only that, you take it so far as to say "have a chance to be corrupted."

What precisely is your explanation of Rom 13: 1-3?

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

... and that passage has nothing whatsoever to do with any civil government.

A. Government is greedy and selfish and will force you to be a sinner or saint. Both not good things to force.

You cannot be forced to be either sinner or saint.

B. You can follow Apostle Paul, but I follow Jesus. And look into Revelations, where several incidents of churches are corrupted.

Both Paul and Jesus told the truth, and nothing but the truth.

Did you ever give us the meaning of Rom 13: 1-3? It has been cited to you by a couple of people.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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4/7/2014 10:36:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/7/2014 7:14:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/7/2014 4:41:28 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/7/2014 12:25:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/7/2014 8:18:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:18:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 11:13:21 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:52:08 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/6/2014 10:02:29 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 4/6/2014 9:38:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
That doesn't sound very "Christian" to me, in general. Christians are not anarchists - and the NT does not support anarchy.

Well if you really wanna research on this, look into Leo Tolstoy, the first Christian anarchist of his time. And there's some verses in New Testament that supports anarchy. Like people who believe everything they hear are fools.

Which verse is that?

Proverbs 14:15

15 The simple believes every word,
But the prudent considers well his steps.

That's not in the New Testament.

Acts 5:29

Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Romans 12:2: Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Those would be true, and of course must be viewed in light of Rom 13: 1-3. The civil powers, the government, is ordained by God and is to be obeyed to the extent that it is not requiring a person to sin. If it gets to the point at which the government is asking you to sin, then "we ought to obey God rather than men."

And then there's give to Caesar what is his, but give to God what is his.

I will pay taxes, but only cuz I was told by God, not the government. I won't obey a government that lets cops beat anybody up by abuse or have a chance to be corrupted.

So if a government allows something, or does something, or permits something that you consider to be sinful or immoral, you've just decided that you won't obey it even though you know it was ordained by God. Not only that, you take it so far as to say "have a chance to be corrupted."

What precisely is your explanation of Rom 13: 1-3?

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

... and that passage has nothing whatsoever to do with any civil government.

A. Government is greedy and selfish and will force you to be a sinner or saint. Both not good things to force.

You cannot be forced to be either sinner or saint.

B. You can follow Apostle Paul, but I follow Jesus. And look into Revelations, where several incidents of churches are corrupted.

Both Paul and Jesus told the truth, and nothing but the truth.

Did you ever give us the meaning of Rom 13: 1-3? It has been cited to you by a couple of people.

Yes, I thought I saw you respond. It means we are subjects to governments. Citizens. We must contribute to society. But doesn't mean we have to like it. Lot of people hate communism. Would you still be wanting to be rooting for it? Communism had its times where it destroyed churches and enforces the belief that if you were religious, you were an enemy of reason and ration. So Communism can enforce saints who die or sinners who commit the hunt for witches by calling out the religious.