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perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 12:07:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.

yes
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/11/2014 12:34:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 12:07:19 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.

yes

Thank you. Were you born a male or female?
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 12:35:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 12:34:25 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:07:19 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.

yes

Thank you. Were you born a male or female?

female...how many more question until you present something?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/11/2014 12:43:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 12:35:49 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:34:25 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:07:19 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.

yes

Thank you. Were you born a male or female?

female...how many more question until you present something?

There will likely be a few more questions but it's mostly going to be an analysis of your personality based on what you say and have said. I don't know if I'll ever present it to you in public but more likely in private. However, if you wish for it to be presented publicly then I can if you want. It's going to take a while though.

I had guessed right that you were born a female but I noticed that you are consciously trying to look male. When you said that you were born a transsexual, what did you mean? Were you referring to mental traits of your personality or were you referring to physical traits? Feel free to avoid answering questions that you consider to be too personal. However, I am asking questions of you because it appears to me that you are wanting to discuss your personal details here.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 12:46:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 12:43:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:35:49 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:34:25 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:07:19 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.

yes

Thank you. Were you born a male or female?

female...how many more question until you present something?

There will likely be a few more questions but it's mostly going to be an analysis of your personality based on what you say and have said. I don't know if I'll ever present it to you in public but more likely in private. However, if you wish for it to be presented publicly then I can if you want. It's going to take a while though.

I had guessed right that you were born a female but I noticed that you are consciously trying to look male. When you said that you were born a transsexual, what did you mean? Were you referring to mental traits of your personality or were you referring to physical traits? Feel free to avoid answering questions that you consider to be too personal. However, I am asking questions of you because it appears to me that you are wanting to discuss your personal details here.

i didn't say i was born a transexual.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/11/2014 12:48:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 12:46:24 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:43:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:35:49 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:34:25 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:07:19 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.

yes

Thank you. Were you born a male or female?

female...how many more question until you present something?

There will likely be a few more questions but it's mostly going to be an analysis of your personality based on what you say and have said. I don't know if I'll ever present it to you in public but more likely in private. However, if you wish for it to be presented publicly then I can if you want. It's going to take a while though.

I had guessed right that you were born a female but I noticed that you are consciously trying to look male. When you said that you were born a transsexual, what did you mean? Were you referring to mental traits of your personality or were you referring to physical traits? Feel free to avoid answering questions that you consider to be too personal. However, I am asking questions of you because it appears to me that you are wanting to discuss your personal details here.

i didn't say i was born a transexual.

Oh, o.k. then sorry. What did you say. Something about being born of one sex and then becoming another either physically or mentally? Which?
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 12:54:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 12:48:59 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:46:24 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:43:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:35:49 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:34:25 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:07:19 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:47:35 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?
if it's not, then just don't say "no"...offer something and present your case.

so now if i am right then consider this....
since i am not a believer i sort of interpret that as the believer saying, if you don't believe in yourself you have no self worth...
but takes it one step further...if you don't believe in what i believe for myself your life is meaningless...

isn't that having an undue sense of importance?

Are your mother and father still married? I need to know that before I can answer your questions on anything.

yes

Thank you. Were you born a male or female?

female...how many more question until you present something?

There will likely be a few more questions but it's mostly going to be an analysis of your personality based on what you say and have said. I don't know if I'll ever present it to you in public but more likely in private. However, if you wish for it to be presented publicly then I can if you want. It's going to take a while though.

I had guessed right that you were born a female but I noticed that you are consciously trying to look male. When you said that you were born a transsexual, what did you mean? Were you referring to mental traits of your personality or were you referring to physical traits? Feel free to avoid answering questions that you consider to be too personal. However, I am asking questions of you because it appears to me that you are wanting to discuss your personal details here.

i didn't say i was born a transexual.

Oh, o.k. then sorry. What did you say. Something about being born of one sex and then becoming another either physically or mentally? Which?

quote me, i have no idea what you are talking about...but what does this have to do with the thread?

if you want to ask questions about my sexuality because you are interested start a thread and i will be happy to answer all your questions...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/11/2014 1:09:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
perplexed, You were born something? What is it that you said?

No, I won't be starting another thread for dealing with my questions about you. It wouldn't produce the answers I need. And besides, I'm pretty sure I already have my answer.

You need to be aware that what you are hiding and what you think is hidden is not. The professional community that is concerned with such analysis of your personality and the personalities of those who are similar to you in many ways is already answered conclusively. The reason why the debate goes on in public is because we have no real motivation to announce the findings in a public way. There are compassionate reasons to not do so. However, there isn't just one answer, there are a few albeit a very few answers. Perhaps you are aware but you need to continue to reject the answer that applies to you.

The latter is true in your case of course because you are pursuing the anwer here so aggressively by resorting to religion as a vehicle to pursue it. Your motives are not to disprove religions at all.

My reasons revolve around an interest in differing personalities and what motivates those people.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 1:20:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 1:09:58 PM, monty1 wrote:
perplexed, You were born something? What is it that you said?
bi sexual...if that is what you are trying to get at

No, I won't be starting another thread for dealing with my questions about you. It wouldn't produce the answers I need. And besides, I'm pretty sure I already have my answer.
i'm sure you do.

You need to be aware that what you are hiding and what you think is hidden is not. The professional community that is concerned with such analysis of your personality and the personalities of those who are similar to you in many ways is already answered conclusively. The reason why the debate goes on in public is because we have no real motivation to announce the findings in a public way. There are compassionate reasons to not do so. However, there isn't just one answer, there are a few albeit a very few answers. Perhaps you are aware but you need to continue to reject the answer that applies to you.

The latter is true in your case of course because you are pursuing the anwer here so aggressively by resorting to religion as a vehicle to pursue it. Your motives are not to disprove religions at all.

My reasons revolve around an interest in differing personalities and what motivates those people.

i ruffled some feathers....good.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/11/2014 1:25:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 1:20:29 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 1:09:58 PM, monty1 wrote:
perplexed, You were born something? What is it that you said?
bi sexual...if that is what you are trying to get at

No, I won't be starting another thread for dealing with my questions about you. It wouldn't produce the answers I need. And besides, I'm pretty sure I already have my answer.
i'm sure you do.

You need to be aware that what you are hiding and what you think is hidden is not. The professional community that is concerned with such analysis of your personality and the personalities of those who are similar to you in many ways is already answered conclusively. The reason why the debate goes on in public is because we have no real motivation to announce the findings in a public way. There are compassionate reasons to not do so. However, there isn't just one answer, there are a few albeit a very few answers. Perhaps you are aware but you need to continue to reject the answer that applies to you.

The latter is true in your case of course because you are pursuing the anwer here so aggressively by resorting to religion as a vehicle to pursue it. Your motives are not to disprove religions at all.

My reasons revolve around an interest in differing personalities and what motivates those people.

i ruffled some feathers....good.

No little girl, you have not. You have provided some answers and that's the exact opposite. I also have to wonder why you think I dislike you? I surely don't! You come across as one of the more intelligent on this forum even though your intelligence leads to your obvious display of how troubled you are. We'll leave it at that for now.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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4/11/2014 1:36:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?

I think all are forgiven, because of what Jesus told. But eternal life is only for those who are or become righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

And righteous will live because of faith. If person is faithful to God and keeps his commandments that are:

'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. A second likewise is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat. 22:37-39

Loving God means this:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3
That means, if person loves God, he loves his neighbor and that is why love God is the first commandment.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

So, actually person is "saved" from the second death (hell, where soul and body is destroyed, Matt. 10:28), if he is righteous and therefore faithful to God. And faithfulness to God means that person remains in God"s words.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 4:25:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 1:36:29 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

Is that right?

I think all are forgiven, because of what Jesus told. But eternal life is only for those who are or become righteous.
how are all forgiven...?
if you forgive you don't hold their disbelief against them
how does one become righteous...through belief...so you believe you are righteous because you believe you are...have i missed something or is that pretty much what you believe?

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

right, those that are his..verse 40... via the belief they are his...right?

And righteous will live because of faith. If person is faithful to God and keeps his commandments that are:

'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. A second likewise is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
Mat. 22:37-39
right...love god and those that are like minded...


Loving God means this:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. His commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:3
That means, if person loves God, he loves his neighbor and that is why love God is the first commandment.
the neighbor who is like minded...read 2 cor 6:14 and reconcile how a neighbor is anything but a like meinded person, if you don't agree with paul that all good, then you are to reconcile that with what jesus said in matthew 10:14,15
as far as i am concerned, if love is contingent on a condition, in this case belief, it isn't extraordinary and i remain skeptical as to the purpose of the ultimatum presented.

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

So, actually person is "saved" from the second death (hell, where soul and body is destroyed, Matt. 10:28), if he is righteous and therefore faithful to God. And faithfulness to God means that person remains in God"s words.

only because the person believes they are, right?
if you can, do you think you can show me the difference between wishful thinking and faith?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/11/2014 4:31:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 1:25:07 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/11/2014 1:20:29 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 1:09:58 PM, monty1 wrote:
perplexed, You were born something? What is it that you said?
bi sexual...if that is what you are trying to get at

No, I won't be starting another thread for dealing with my questions about you. It wouldn't produce the answers I need. And besides, I'm pretty sure I already have my answer.
i'm sure you do.

You need to be aware that what you are hiding and what you think is hidden is not. The professional community that is concerned with such analysis of your personality and the personalities of those who are similar to you in many ways is already answered conclusively. The reason why the debate goes on in public is because we have no real motivation to announce the findings in a public way. There are compassionate reasons to not do so. However, there isn't just one answer, there are a few albeit a very few answers. Perhaps you are aware but you need to continue to reject the answer that applies to you.

The latter is true in your case of course because you are pursuing the anwer here so aggressively by resorting to religion as a vehicle to pursue it. Your motives are not to disprove religions at all.

My reasons revolve around an interest in differing personalities and what motivates those people.

i ruffled some feathers....good.

No little girl, you have not. You have provided some answers and that's the exact opposite. I also have to wonder why you think I dislike you? I surely don't! You come across as one of the more intelligent on this forum even though your intelligence leads to your obvious display of how troubled you are. We'll leave it at that for now.

yes i agree i am troubled.
and i would say that is part of my trouble is the concern i have for our children's future.
being that i grew up hating myself as my parents taught me and my church taught me to, my righteous is as dirty rags,
i learn to hate that i was born with the capacity to fall in love with either gender, i was an abomination...so you are absolutely right, i am troubled indeed. i made life choices contingent on that self hate
and i am also aware there are those that also put up with the notion that it's ok to hate who they just as long as they believe in jesus...
i just want to know why you object to me putting this out in the open...

so why the red herring...why ignore what this thread is about?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/12/2014 10:12:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?

Are you asking me to give a fully defense of Christianity, or are you asking me specifically what Biblical reasons I have for thinking everybody is worthy of eternal punishment and that God saves those who believe?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/12/2014 10:16:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:12:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?

Are you asking me to give a fully defense of Christianity, or are you asking me specifically what Biblical reasons I have for thinking everybody is worthy of eternal punishment and that God saves those who believe?

i am asking for whatever it is you use to justify your belief...not necessarily what you believe in but what warrants it.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/12/2014 10:22:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:16:45 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:12:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?

Are you asking me to give a fully defense of Christianity, or are you asking me specifically what Biblical reasons I have for thinking everybody is worthy of eternal punishment and that God saves those who believe?

i am asking for whatever it is you use to justify your belief...not necessarily what you believe in but what warrants it.

What belief in particular are you talking about?

Perplexed, is there a reason you're being so vague? I feel like we're playing a game or something. Even when I ask for clarification, you continue to be vague. If there's a specific question you want to ask me, then please be specific, because if this is a game, I don't want to play anymore.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
KaileyFox
Posts: 156
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4/12/2014 10:30:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:16:45 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:12:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?

Are you asking me to give a fully defense of Christianity, or are you asking me specifically what Biblical reasons I have for thinking everybody is worthy of eternal punishment and that God saves those who believe?

i am asking for whatever it is you use to justify your belief...not necessarily what you believe in but what warrants it.

Sorry to jump in, I just wanted to give a quick answer. We believe in Jesus, and we believe this saves us because, when sin was introduced into the world by humans, we became fallen people. Back in the OT of the Bible, before Jesus, people gave sacrifices, like animals, to ask God for forgiveness of sins they had committed, but in the NT, the covenant we're under, Jesus died on the cross, taking on all of those sins and being the ultimate sacrifice. Now we believe in him so that we're saved, but this belief isn't just believing. It's a way of life. Like, we not only believe in Jesus, but walk in his footsteps as well. This is why there are so many fake Christians out there these days because they're often informed that being a Christian just means believing in Jesus and that's it. In truth, it means believing Jesus saved you from your sins and following after him. The reason we do this is because we believe God is the ultimate giver of life, and when we turn away from him, we turn away from our source of life, and eternal life as well. Think of it like a plant growing toward the sun. Without the sun, the plant would wither. I hope this makes sense. If not, feel free to ask questions :)
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/12/2014 10:33:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:22:12 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:16:45 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:12:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?

Are you asking me to give a fully defense of Christianity, or are you asking me specifically what Biblical reasons I have for thinking everybody is worthy of eternal punishment and that God saves those who believe?

i am asking for whatever it is you use to justify your belief...not necessarily what you believe in but what warrants it.

What belief in particular are you talking about?
your religious belief.

Perplexed, is there a reason you're being so vague? I feel like we're playing a game or something. Even when I ask for clarification, you continue to be vague. If there's a specific question you want to ask me, then please be specific, because if this is a game, I don't want to play anymore.

i am being very straightforward, what justifies your religious belief?
or maybe if i define the words for you....
justifies means: "show or prove to be right or reasonable"
belief means: something one accepts as true or real

so then i will present the question like this
show me WHAT IT IS that you consider is RIGHT and REASONABLE which WOULD ALLOW you to ACCEPT your religious belief as TRUE or REAL

is that better?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/12/2014 10:35:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:30:49 PM, KaileyFox wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:16:45 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:12:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?

Are you asking me to give a fully defense of Christianity, or are you asking me specifically what Biblical reasons I have for thinking everybody is worthy of eternal punishment and that God saves those who believe?

i am asking for whatever it is you use to justify your belief...not necessarily what you believe in but what warrants it.

Sorry to jump in, I just wanted to give a quick answer. We believe in Jesus, and we believe this saves us because, when sin was introduced into the world by humans, we became fallen people. Back in the OT of the Bible, before Jesus, people gave sacrifices, like animals, to ask God for forgiveness of sins they had committed, but in the NT, the covenant we're under, Jesus died on the cross, taking on all of those sins and being the ultimate sacrifice. Now we believe in him so that we're saved, but this belief isn't just believing. It's a way of life. Like, we not only believe in Jesus, but walk in his footsteps as well. This is why there are so many fake Christians out there these days because they're often informed that being a Christian just means believing in Jesus and that's it. In truth, it means believing Jesus saved you from your sins and following after him. The reason we do this is because we believe God is the ultimate giver of life, and when we turn away from him, we turn away from our source of life, and eternal life as well. Think of it like a plant growing toward the sun. Without the sun, the plant would wither. I hope this makes sense. If not, feel free to ask questions :)

thank you for jumping in...
i understand what it is you believe...i just want to know what it is that convinces you this belief is true or real
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/12/2014 10:39:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:33:33 PM, perplexed wrote:

i am being very straightforward, what justifies your religious belief?

I have a lot of religious beliefs. If you're asking me to give all the reasons for why I believe all the particulars of Christianity, I'm not going to do that in a forum like this. I'd have to give you all the reasons I believe in God, why I believe in morality, why I believe Jesus is the Christ, why I believe he died for sins, etc. If I ever decide to write a book, I'll let you know.

or maybe if i define the words for you....
justifies means: "show or prove to be right or reasonable"
belief means: something one accepts as true or real

I know what "justified" and "belief" mean. My question was perfectly clear. I asked what you what belief in particular you wanted me to give a justification for.

so then i will present the question like this
show me WHAT IT IS that you consider is RIGHT and REASONABLE which WOULD ALLOW you to ACCEPT your religious belief as TRUE or REAL

is that better?

No because "religious belief" is not specific enough. And I'm done going back and forth with you.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/12/2014 10:44:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:39:37 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:33:33 PM, perplexed wrote:

i am being very straightforward, what justifies your religious belief?

I have a lot of religious beliefs. If you're asking me to give all the reasons for why I believe all the particulars of Christianity, I'm not going to do that in a forum like this. I'd have to give you all the reasons I believe in God, why I believe in morality, why I believe Jesus is the Christ, why I believe he died for sins, etc. If I ever decide to write a book, I'll let you know.

or maybe if i define the words for you....
justifies means: "show or prove to be right or reasonable"
belief means: something one accepts as true or real

I know what "justified" and "belief" mean. My question was perfectly clear. I asked what you what belief in particular you wanted me to give a justification for.

so then i will present the question like this
show me WHAT IT IS that you consider is RIGHT and REASONABLE which WOULD ALLOW you to ACCEPT your religious belief as TRUE or REAL

is that better?

No because "religious belief" is not specific enough. And I'm done going back and forth with you.

religious means: believing in and worshiping a supernatural controlling power
belief means: something one accepts as true or real...
so what convinces you your belief of worshiping a supernatural power is real

it's not that hard....unless you never thought about it before
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
KaileyFox
Posts: 156
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4/12/2014 10:46:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/12/2014 10:35:50 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:30:49 PM, KaileyFox wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:16:45 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 10:12:20 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:57:47 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:36:27 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:28:34 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:24:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/12/2014 9:20:09 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/11/2014 12:30:21 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/11/2014 11:22:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
So let me get this straight.
Christians believe they are saved because they believe they are and if one doesn't believe as they do the unbeliever is worthy of eternal punishment based on their unbelief.

No, everybody is worthy of eternal punishment based on all of their sins, and God saves those who believe.

John 8:24 "Unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

i understand that...
so what i want to know is, is it your belief in your belief that justifies your belief?

I don't know what it means to believe in a belief, so I don't understand your question.

what justifies your belief in your belief?

I'm perplexed again. Why would you ask me that when I just told you I don't know what "belief in belief" means? If you'll explain what you mean by that, maybe I can answer your question.

i know it's a weird question so i'll simplify it a little more...
what justifies your belief?

Are you asking me to give a fully defense of Christianity, or are you asking me specifically what Biblical reasons I have for thinking everybody is worthy of eternal punishment and that God saves those who believe?

i am asking for whatever it is you use to justify your belief...not necessarily what you believe in but what warrants it.

Sorry to jump in, I just wanted to give a quick answer. We believe in Jesus, and we believe this saves us because, when sin was introduced into the world by humans, we became fallen people. Back in the OT of the Bible, before Jesus, people gave sacrifices, like animals, to ask God for forgiveness of sins they had committed, but in the NT, the covenant we're under, Jesus died on the cross, taking on all of those sins and being the ultimate sacrifice. Now we believe in him so that we're saved, but this belief isn't just believing. It's a way of life. Like, we not only believe in Jesus, but walk in his footsteps as well. This is why there are so many fake Christians out there these days because they're often informed that being a Christian just means believing in Jesus and that's it. In truth, it means believing Jesus saved you from your sins and following after him. The reason we do this is because we believe God is the ultimate giver of life, and when we turn away from him, we turn away from our source of life, and eternal life as well. Think of it like a plant growing toward the sun. Without the sun, the plant would wither. I hope this makes sense. If not, feel free to ask questions :)

thank you for jumping in...
i understand what it is you believe...i just want to know what it is that convinces you this belief is true or real

Hmm, that's a really good question, and I'm glad you asked it. It made me think for a moment. I believe we believe (at least, this is true for myself) because we feel a connection to God and we trust in him. It says in the Bible that we walk by faith not sight, meaning we shouldn't search for some sort of tangible and empirical evidence for God, but rather believe in him because he has called us to and we have faith that he is really here. This is why a lot of non-believers call Christians out for being irrational and what not, but I don't think it's irrational to have a belief in God. There are over 4000 religions in the world. I think there's something innate in us that wants to believe there is something bigger than us that is in control. For Christians, that higher power is God.