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Pascal's wager is stupid

Dwint
Posts: 47
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4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.
Hitchens is the way!
Benshapiro
Posts: 3,966
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4/14/2014 2:18:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I agree. I don't even see it as an argument. It emphasizes religious fear mongery as to why people should become Christians solely through the impending threat of going to hell if you don't.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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4/14/2014 3:23:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 2:18:04 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
I agree. I don't even see it as an argument. It emphasizes religious fear mongery as to why people should become Christians solely through the impending threat of going to hell if you don't.

It would seem that you have discovered the underlying doctrine of christianity, don't let it out, it's a secret.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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4/14/2014 3:45:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Except your arguments are absolute BS; they are filled with ad hominem and straw men.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.

Maybe it's because I actually don't set up straw men and try to piss people off in every topic in the religious forums?
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 3:45:12 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Except your arguments are absolute BS; they are filled with ad hominem and straw men.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.

Maybe it's because I actually don't set up straw men and try to piss people off in every topic in the religious forums?

Oh you think I should be more sensitive when discussing other peoples delusions? I'm sorry, but I no longer feel any impulse to cater to such insecurity.

Here is the message for everyone.

************************************************WE ALL DIE*********************************************************

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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4/14/2014 11:11:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:45:12 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Except your arguments are absolute BS; they are filled with ad hominem and straw men.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.

Maybe it's because I actually don't set up straw men and try to piss people off in every topic in the religious forums?

Oh you think I should be more sensitive when discussing other peoples delusions? I'm sorry, but I no longer feel any impulse to cater to such insecurity.

Then for the love of God, why do you keep trolling this section?

Here is the message for everyone.

************************************************WE ALL DIE*********************************************************

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.

That's coming from someone who hasn't made a single productive post on this site.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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4/14/2014 11:25:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 11:11:25 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:45:12 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Except your arguments are absolute BS; they are filled with ad hominem and straw men.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.

Maybe it's because I actually don't set up straw men and try to piss people off in every topic in the religious forums?

Oh you think I should be more sensitive when discussing other peoples delusions? I'm sorry, but I no longer feel any impulse to cater to such insecurity.

Then for the love of God, why do you keep trolling this section?

Here is the message for everyone.

************************************************WE ALL DIE*********************************************************

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.

That's coming from someone who hasn't made a single productive post on this site.

Your lack of understanding does not an unproductive post make......................little child.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/14/2014 11:28:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Ironsmile360 used it a couple hours ago.

http://www.debate.org...
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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4/15/2014 12:11:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 11:25:12 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 11:11:25 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:45:12 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Except your arguments are absolute BS; they are filled with ad hominem and straw men.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.

Maybe it's because I actually don't set up straw men and try to piss people off in every topic in the religious forums?

Oh you think I should be more sensitive when discussing other peoples delusions? I'm sorry, but I no longer feel any impulse to cater to such insecurity.

Then for the love of God, why do you keep trolling this section?

Here is the message for everyone.

************************************************WE ALL DIE*********************************************************

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.

That's coming from someone who hasn't made a single productive post on this site.

Your lack of understanding does not an unproductive post make......................little child.

So if nobody understands it, it's still productive?

Seriously, just go back to the Yahoo Answers and Google+ atheist communities.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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4/15/2014 12:18:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 12:11:59 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 11:25:12 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 11:11:25 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:45:12 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Except your arguments are absolute BS; they are filled with ad hominem and straw men.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.

Maybe it's because I actually don't set up straw men and try to piss people off in every topic in the religious forums?

Oh you think I should be more sensitive when discussing other peoples delusions? I'm sorry, but I no longer feel any impulse to cater to such insecurity.

Then for the love of God, why do you keep trolling this section?

Here is the message for everyone.

************************************************WE ALL DIE*********************************************************

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.

That's coming from someone who hasn't made a single productive post on this site.

Your lack of understanding does not an unproductive post make......................little child.

So if nobody understands it, it's still productive?

Seriously, just go back to the Yahoo Answers and Google+ atheist communities.

Seriously, just grow up. Come back when you mature and actually know something.

What are yahoo answers and google+?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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4/15/2014 12:22:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 12:18:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/15/2014 12:11:59 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 11:25:12 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 11:11:25 PM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:45:12 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:41:48 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:33:01 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

As a theist, I have to agree. And who really uses it anymore?

And ignore bulproof; he doesn't understand religion.

Unfortunately for you Pit I understand religion very well, especially the misnomered christianity.

Except your arguments are absolute BS; they are filled with ad hominem and straw men.

Lot's of apologists still use variations of poor old Pascal. Still you are entitled to think of your vast experience with religion as being somehow decisive.

Maybe it's because I actually don't set up straw men and try to piss people off in every topic in the religious forums?

Oh you think I should be more sensitive when discussing other peoples delusions? I'm sorry, but I no longer feel any impulse to cater to such insecurity.

Then for the love of God, why do you keep trolling this section?

Here is the message for everyone.

************************************************WE ALL DIE*********************************************************

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.

That's coming from someone who hasn't made a single productive post on this site.

Your lack of understanding does not an unproductive post make......................little child.

So if nobody understands it, it's still productive?

Seriously, just go back to the Yahoo Answers and Google+ atheist communities.

Seriously, just grow up. Come back when you mature and actually know something.

Says the guy who can't post something without using ad hominem and straw men.

What are yahoo answers and google+?

You can't be serious.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

"YOU ARE A TOTAL MORON!!! LOL!!!- invisibledeity

"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
E_Pluribus_Unum
Posts: 53
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4/15/2014 12:26:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
. . .

WE ALL DIE

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.
Your posts seem to be "working" towards an extremely superficial characterization of what a religious, namely Christian, worldview is. Ultimately, the result of this is your premise(s) erroneously devolve religion into nothing but a placebo to numb the fear of death or dread of pain. This is begging the question in your position"s favor. After all, in order for religious belief to be a placebo (that is essentially a paraphrase of your viewpoint here), religious belief by definition must be false. But you have not only failed to establish the untruth of religious, namely Christian, worldviews, but you have also failed to recognize that this is necessary for your points to have any sort of meaning!

In other and perhaps simpler words, you are only assuming religious belief is false and your view is true. It is nothing but an achievement of circular reasoning. Regardless, this completely prevents me from actually having an intellectual engagement with you. I cannot disprove the assumption of the view your posts here have, just as you couldn't do the same if I were to do what you have done. But I may, however, be able to provide a counterexample should you offer an intellectually honest viewpoint that actually requires you to consider the opponent"s viewpoint long enough to provide a potentially reasonable problem with why religious belief is false. Until you do so, this conversation would necessarily be grossly limited because you have defined it by ideology rather than a sense of objective evidence.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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4/15/2014 1:10:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 12:26:54 AM, E_Pluribus_Unum wrote:
At 4/14/2014 3:57:23 AM, bulproof wrote:
. . .

WE ALL DIE

Needing the fantasy of an afterlife is simply pathetic.

Don't worry you'll not miss anyone, you'll have no regrets, you'll just be dead.

Religion was useful for cavemen, some of us have grown up, the rest of you need to.
Your posts seem to be "working" towards an extremely superficial characterization of what a religious, namely Christian, worldview is. Ultimately, the result of this is your premise(s) erroneously devolve religion into nothing but a placebo to numb the fear of death or dread of pain. This is begging the question in your position"s favor. After all, in order for religious belief to be a placebo (that is essentially a paraphrase of your viewpoint here), religious belief by definition must be false. But you have not only failed to establish the untruth of religious, namely Christian, worldviews, but you have also failed to recognize that this is necessary for your points to have any sort of meaning!

In other and perhaps simpler words, you are only assuming religious belief is false and your view is true. It is nothing but an achievement of circular reasoning. Regardless, this completely prevents me from actually having an intellectual engagement with you. I cannot disprove the assumption of the view your posts here have, just as you couldn't do the same if I were to do what you have done. But I may, however, be able to provide a counterexample should you offer an intellectually honest viewpoint that actually requires you to consider the opponent"s viewpoint long enough to provide a potentially reasonable problem with why religious belief is false. Until you do so, this conversation would necessarily be grossly limited because you have defined it by ideology rather than a sense of objective evidence.
How many religions and gods exist?
How many of those gods are actually gods?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
E_Pluribus_Unum
Posts: 53
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4/15/2014 6:05:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 1:10:47 AM, bulproof wrote:
How many religions and gods exist?
Depending on your definition, there are about twenty major religions today, and hundreds of smaller ones. A rough estimate of the number of divinities worshiped could be in the thousands.
How many of those gods are actually gods?
All of them, actually. Helios, for example, is in fact a "real" god who rode the chariot of the Sun each day. Even though very few people think he exists beyond, he is "real" in the sense Helios was worshiped, and, in the eyes of many Ancient Hellenistic Greeks, Helios was really riding the chariot each day. What I am getting at is that Helios is an real or actual myth, he is most certainly real in that sense. All of the divinities worshiped today and in the past are/were worshiped as real beings, and they are real gods, but not necessarily an entity that exists outside of our perceptions or imaginations. I find the question of if God(s) exists that exist beyond man's mind to be a very worthwhile pursuit.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/15/2014 6:15:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/13/2014 11:46:58 AM, Dwint wrote:
Pascal's wager makes no sense and using it in an argument doesn't help your case.
First of all, why pretend to be religious if you are clearly not? Can't God tell you were faking? Just because you go to church every Sunday it doesn't mean you will go to heaven.
If you are a non-believer, there's nothing you can do about it. Pretending to believe something that you doubt constantly inside your mind is not a solution

I agree about Pascal's Wager. I think all a person can do is to really research the topic, keep an open mind for a long while (as people's beliefs often change over time) and do their best to be good people.

Also, is fear the right motivation for belief? Shouldn't you be religious because you love God and you want to make him happy by listening to him? What's the point in worshiping God if the only motivation is fear?

No, it is NOT the right motivation. In fact, if it is your motivation you are probably following Pascal's advice.

And lastly, what make you think that out of all the gods mankind worshiped over the years the Christian God is the only one that exists? The wager clearly states there's no way of knowing if God is real, so there's no way of knowing if Zeus, Brahma or Ra are real. You would have to give every single god equal chances, while the possibility that no god exists remains constant : 50%., so being an atheist is a pretty safe bet.

There's another reasonable assessment - that all the gods are one and the same, and God himself is simply indescribable, as he supposedly said to Moses from the burning bush. Many Native Americans thought that the first Europeans they met were gods because of their armor and ships. People tend to see what they want to see, and to fill in the blanks with their own preferences. There's nothing unusual about that.
bulproof
Posts: 25,238
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4/16/2014 2:19:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:05:03 PM, E_Pluribus_Unum wrote:
At 4/15/2014 1:10:47 AM, bulproof wrote:
How many religions and gods exist?
Depending on your definition, there are about twenty major religions today, and hundreds of smaller ones. A rough estimate of the number of divinities worshiped could be in the thousands.
How many of those gods are actually gods?
All of them, actually. Helios, for example, is in fact a "real" god who rode the chariot of the Sun each day. ............<snipped>........................................... What I am getting at is that Helios is an real or actual myth, he is most certainly real in that sense.

I think you'll find you've just supported my contention.

Real god=Real myth

Thanks
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
E_Pluribus_Unum
Posts: 53
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4/16/2014 6:18:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 2:19:40 AM, bulproof wrote:
I think you'll find you've just supported my contention.

Real god=Real myth

Thanks
I said all divinities in antiquity and modern times are existant in the sense they actually are real entities that are/were worshiped. I didn't say that all deities are equal in the sense of all being limited to the said existence.