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Why are we blamed for original sin?

Bannanawamajama
Posts: 125
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4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions. But why are we judged by their actions? When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?
Dwint
Posts: 47
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4/15/2014 9:07:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The original sin is forgiven when you are baptized, that's why all non-Christians go to hell no matter how they lived their lives. From what I understand the original sin is there because of our predisposition to sin. It's in human nature to sin, so we are already born sinners. Doesn't make much sense, but that's Christianity.
Hitchens is the way!
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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4/15/2014 9:19:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions. But why are we judged by their actions? When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

The story of Adam and Eve in Eden is an allegory.

In the story, humanity (as represented by the first couple) was denied the knowledge of good and evil (as this is knowledge that only God can possess) while they were given everything else they needed to live and thrive on the Earth. But those first allegorical humans, like any real human to this very day, just couldn't accept that limitation. And they got to thinking that if they possessed the knowledge of good and evil, as God does, they would be the equals of God. And that they should be God's equals.

So they adopted (ingested into themselves) the idea that they did in fact possess the knowledge of good and evil, and in doing so they doomed themselves to lives of endless toil and labor. Because what presuming to possess the knowledge of good and evil does in we humans, is it gives us the false presumption that we can stand in judgement of all creation, including each other, as if we were it's creator: as if we were gods. And when we do so, we of course will find it wanting, because we judge all we see by the presumption that it was intended to serve us. We are in fact, just selfish fools, and do not really possess the knowledge of good and evil at all. But we think we do. And for as long as we continue to think we are God's equals, and that we possess the right and the ability to pass judgment on all we encounter, we will continue to judge everything we encounter to be flawed, because it isn't serving us exclusively, as we think it should. And so we set out to correct this flaw: to force the world and everything and everyone in it to serve us, as we presume it should do. And this is an endless task, because the world was not created to serve us, nor were the other humans. It was created to glorify God. But we refuse to humble ourselves, and acknowledge that we are not gods, ourselves. Nor are we God's equals. And so we continue to live in a lie of our own invention.

Thus we have doomed ourselves to lives of endless toil and strife for as long as we continue to believe that the world was created to serve us. A lie, generated in our own minds, by our own egos, that falsely presumes that we have the knowledge and the right to judge all we see.

According to the allegory, man's "original sin" is the sin of hubris. It is the presumption that we are a kind of demigod, holding unto ourselves the right to judge and condemn whatever we encounter according to how it should but doesn't serve us.

And I would say that's a pretty accurate description of our fundamental problem, alright. Wouldn't you?
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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4/15/2014 9:30:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions. But why are we judged by their actions? When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

It's Christianity's way of saying, "No matter who you are or how good you are, you are a failure, without our control of your life."
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 9:39:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions. But why are we judged by their actions? When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

it's been said that god's ways are a mystery...
based on that nonsense, then the idea of sin is a non starter...
sin doesn't exist since there has never been a model that would suggest there is an objective moral author...it's a form of mind control to herd sheep into thinking there is only ONE way...it's atrocious, immoral and sociopathic...and our society protects this hateful ideology that feeds the flame of our collective state of perpetual broken-ness.
and why? because society regards religious ideology as more than an opinion and our society is filled with people who are too afraid to make waves by questioning or pointing out the flaw of holding religious ideology to another standard...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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4/15/2014 9:52:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"In the theology of the Catholic Church, original sin is regarded as the general condition of sinfulness, that is (the absence of holiness and perfect charity) into which humans are born, distinct from the actual sins that a person commits. This teaching explicitly states that "original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants".[7] In other words, human beings do not bear any "original guilt" from Adam and Eve's particular sin. The prevailing view, also held in Eastern Orthodoxy, is that human beings bear no guilt for the sin of Adam and Eve.

Although Orthodoxy prefers using the term "ancestral sin",[8][9] which indicates that "original sin is hereditary. It did not remain only Adam and Eve's. As life passes from them to all of their descendants, so does original sin "[10] In this quotation, "original sin" is used not of the personal sin of Adam, which is his alone and is not transmitted, but in reference to the "distortion of the nature of man", which is inherited."

Only some strains of Christians hold to that understanding of original sin you are talking about.

See Augustine vs Irenaus' understanding of Genesis. Most of western christianity holds to Augustine's interpretive grid; most of eastern christianity holds to something like the Irenaen understanding.

/thread
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
laocmo
Posts: 18
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4/15/2014 3:20:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Original sin is a really dumb carryover from the ancients who had the idea that if the parents sinned the guilt should be passed on the the children. It makes no logical sense and It will dissapoear sometime in the future when people realize they have been lied to by their religious teachers.
laocmo
Posts: 18
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4/15/2014 3:21:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Original sin is a really dumb carryover from the ancients who had the idea that if the parents sinned the guilt should be passed on the the children. It makes no logical sense and It will disappear sometime in the future when people realize they have been lied to by their religious teachers.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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4/15/2014 4:05:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions. But why are we judged by their actions? When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We are in this "death" because of them, to learn what good and evil means, but I think there is no scripture in the Bible that tells that we are going to hell because of them.

Hell comes, if person is not righteous.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

And I believe all people have opportunity to become or be righteous.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.

The Bible teaches that the world was changed due to Adam's sin, but not that his offspring were born guilty of sin or with a "sin nature". There is no more a "sin nature" than there is a "sinless nature".
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 4:41:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Alright. Take Psalm 51: 5,

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (KJV)
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me." (ASV)

Why would I care what David's mother might have been doing when she conceived David? And what indication is this passage that David or anyone else was judged by his mother's actions?

I am fully aware that in some manner David's mother was sinning when he was conceived. I'm sure that is true of lots of people. From that, you have concluded that David was judged by God for his mother's actions?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 4:50:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Psalm 58: 3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."

The passage says, poetically at that, that the wicked go astray by speaking lies. It's merely a hyperbolic statement, a song lyric, emphasizing the pervasiveness of sin. Nobody literally "goes astray as soon as they are born by speaking lies" - mainly because they do not speak at all. Even with the figurative language, the passage does not teach that infants are born astray. It says they go astray. If they inherited the guilt from their parents, they would be born astray.

It is generally of little use to try to cite extremely figurative, often hyperbolic, poetic language in a feeble effort to off-set plain, didactic words:

"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child." (Ezekiel 18: 20)

That's plain enough. Kinda hard to undo that one. And doubly hard when half of the "proofs" consist of figurative song lyrics in which a certain literary license is employed.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 4:54:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors. We are not personally and actually judged guilty of committing a sin just because Adam did. The Bible teaches that physical weakness, frailty of existence, physical death entered into the world when sin did. So? That does not say that anyone else is personally judged guilty of Adam's sin - other than Adam.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/15/2014 5:12:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions. But why are we judged by their actions? When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

Bananawamajama. That's got to be the coolest username I've seen, lol. As regards your question, I have often asked myself the same thing, and it's obvious that even the Christian religion has trouble justifying it. The say that we are born innocent, and if we die as a little child we will go straight to Heaven, but if we reach some vaguely defined age of free choice and don't make the right choice then we will go to Hell. I think the important thing is to forget about all that "law" stuff and concentrate on doing your best to be a good person. As Johnny Depp said about his British-soldier captors in Pirates of the Caribbean, "They done what's right by them, and you can't expect more than that from anybody."
Lucassamson
Posts: 1
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4/15/2014 5:16:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I want to debate this topic,i will oppose mankind must share part of original sin and we need someone to die for us..
Please,send me requests
Lucas
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/15/2014 5:22:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 9:07:17 AM, Dwint wrote:
The original sin is forgiven when you are baptized, that's why all non-Christians go to hell no matter how they lived their lives. From what I understand the original sin is there because of our predisposition to sin. It's in human nature to sin, so we are already born sinners. Doesn't make much sense, but that's Christianity.

Different people see it different ways. The original sin was to "eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil," or, as the serpent explained it, to chase the knowledge which was supposed to belong to God only. After Adam and Eve ate the apple, they supposedly realized they were the only living beings in the Garden who were naked, something which they weren't able to realize before. So is knowledge an evil thing? Many members of the Church treat it as such, but to what end, their own or God's? In the early days of the Catholic Church (which was the official Christian Church of the time) only priests were encouraged to learn things such as how to read Latin, so only they could read the Bible and decipher "God's Word." This gave them very real power over their flocks of common folk, as only they could perform the sacraments. The upper class learned as well, but only because the Church couldn't thwart them from it. It's a very dicey subject, and I don't think it can ever be adequately justified on merit alone.
Idealist
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4/15/2014 5:31:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 3:20:24 PM, laocmo wrote:
Original sin is a really dumb carryover from the ancients who had the idea that if the parents sinned the guilt should be passed on the the children. It makes no logical sense and It will dissapoear sometime in the future when people realize they have been lied to by their religious teachers.

Good point. The Jews especially held to this view, that a committed sin would follow a man's offspring, though they limited the number of generations to three or four. They were sticklers for the letter of law. One group of Jewish religious officials supposedly debated for some time whether a man would guilty of rape or would be married to a woman if he fell off a ladder and accidentally penetrated her as she was walking below. Obviously they went way too far with it all.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/15/2014 5:32:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.

The Bible teaches that the world was changed due to Adam's sin, but not that his offspring were born guilty of sin or with a "sin nature". There is no more a "sin nature" than there is a "sinless nature".

Hmmm . . . something we completely agree on. :)
RHEMA.97
Posts: 42
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4/15/2014 5:38:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions. But why are we judged by their actions? When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

Firstly there is no such thing as a good person thats why Jesus came to help us acheive that.

Secondly we aren't judged by their actions . Our own actions judges us. But they did bring 'death' (spiritual death between man and God) into the world.

Thirdly. God sent His son to save us from what Adam and eve had caused. So if you think about it the solution is there so rather than waste energy complaining why not accept the solution.

And finally the reward of accepting the solution ( Christ) is heaven (). So we get to stay in a place way better than the garden of Eden which we were initially supposed to be in.

And if you dont accept the solution the fault is yours.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 6:10:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:41:14 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Alright. Take Psalm 51: 5,

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (KJV)
"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me." (ASV)

Why would I care what David's mother might have been doing when she conceived David? And what indication is this passage that David or anyone else was judged by his mother's actions?

I am fully aware that in some manner David's mother was sinning when he was conceived. I'm sure that is true of lots of people. From that, you have concluded that David was judged by God for his mother's actions?

typically played...in fact i was expecting it
and the rest cherry picker?

1 cor:15 20 But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

thusly because we are from adam, we are sinners...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 6:13:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:50:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Psalm 58: 3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."

The passage says, poetically at that, that the wicked go astray by speaking lies.

nope...it says " "The wicked are estranged from the womb"
cherry picker
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 6:15:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 4:54:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors.

"For as in Adam all die"
cherry picker
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 6:17:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:13:07 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:50:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Psalm 58: 3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."

The passage says, poetically at that, that the wicked go astray by speaking lies.

nope...it says " "The wicked are estranged from the womb"
cherry picker

It's not cherry picking. We'll take it literally if you please. Name for us an infant who has spoken a lie as soon as it was born. Maybe not the first day, but we'll say within the first three months or so.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 6:19:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:15:01 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:54:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors.

"For as in Adam all die"
cherry picker

This was the reply. You eliminated it when you tried to respond:

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors. We are not personally and actually judged guilty of committing a sin just because Adam did. The Bible teaches that physical weakness, frailty of existence, physical death entered into the world when sin did. So? That does not say that anyone else is personally judged guilty of Adam's sin - other than Adam.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 6:26:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:19:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:15:01 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:54:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors.

"For as in Adam all die"
cherry picker

This was the reply. You eliminated it when you tried to respond:

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors

the wages of sin is death, yes? thusly "For as in Adam all die"
the doctrine of original sin doesn't resonate with your cherry pick mind does it...typical
cherry picker
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 6:27:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:17:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:13:07 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:50:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Psalm 58: 3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."

The passage says, poetically at that, that the wicked go astray by speaking lies.

nope...it says " "The wicked are estranged from the womb"
cherry picker

It's not cherry picking. We'll take it literally if you please. Name for us an infant who has spoken a lie as soon as it was born. Maybe not the first day, but we'll say within the first three months or so.

so from the womb people lie...are you stupid or something?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 6:36:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:27:55 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:17:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:13:07 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:50:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Psalm 58: 3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."

The passage says, poetically at that, that the wicked go astray by speaking lies.

nope...it says " "The wicked are estranged from the womb"
cherry picker

It's not cherry picking. We'll take it literally if you please. Name for us an infant who has spoken a lie as soon as it was born. Maybe not the first day, but we'll say within the first three months or so.

so from the womb people lie...are you stupid or something?

"They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies"

Answer the question, ya dimwit:

Name for us an infant who has spoken a lie as soon as it was born. Maybe not the first day, but we'll say within the first three months or so.

You were the one who assigned a literal meaning to it. Surely you can name someone, somehow, or give some example. Tell ya what: name as infant that COULD HAVE gone astray by speaking lies as soon as it was born.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/15/2014 6:39:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:26:55 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:19:38 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:15:01 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:54:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive."

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors.

"For as in Adam all die"
cherry picker

This was the reply. You eliminated it when you tried to respond:

That's not a case of us being judged by the actions of our ancestors

the wages of sin is death, yes? thusly "For as in Adam all die"
the doctrine of original sin doesn't resonate with your cherry pick mind does it...typical
cherry picker

Oh, it resonates. I know exactly what it is. It's false to the core. The Bible says, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." So?

"For as in Adam all will die a physical death, so also in Christ shall be made alive at the resurrection."

Pretty straight-forward, and of course, you have no answer for it. You think it must mean, "Oh, gee, infants are born sinners" when it says nothing of the sort. Not even close.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/15/2014 6:44:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/15/2014 6:36:00 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:27:55 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:17:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 6:13:07 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:50:28 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:34:52 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/15/2014 4:21:46 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/15/2014 8:38:37 AM, Bannanawamajama wrote:
Supposedly its not enough to simply be a good person in Christianity because we are born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions.

Not taught in the Bible, not the part about "born already going to hell due to Adam and Eves actions".
hmmm, born going already going to hell is established because of not being born into a belief system...hence the need to believe, right?

But why are we judged by their actions?

We aren't.
according to the bible, yes we are..
Psalm 51:5, Romans 5:12-14, Psalm 58:3, 1 Corinthians 15:22

When we try to use that kind of justice in the current world, like in North Korean gulags, its considered atrocious and unacceptable. Why, then, are we answering for the crimes of our ancestors when it is clear that no one subscribes to such a system?

We do not answer for the crimes of any ancestors.
1 Corinthians 15:22

Psalm 58: 3: "The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies."

The passage says, poetically at that, that the wicked go astray by speaking lies.

nope...it says " "The wicked are estranged from the womb"
cherry picker

It's not cherry picking. We'll take it literally if you please. Name for us an infant who has spoken a lie as soon as it was born. Maybe not the first day, but we'll say within the first three months or so.

so from the womb people lie...are you stupid or something?

"They go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies"

Answer the question, ya dimwit:

Name for us an infant who has spoken a lie as soon as it was born. Maybe not the first day, but we'll say within the first three months or so.

You were the one who assigned a literal meaning to it. Surely you can name someone, somehow, or give some example. Tell ya what: name as infant that COULD HAVE gone astray by speaking lies as soon as it was born.

"Maybe not the first day, but we'll say within the first three months or so."

ahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahhahahhahhahhhhhahhahh

baahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhahbaahahhhahwahhahhahhah

lying at 3 months

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: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.