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Is God worthy of our worship?

Omaribrahim
Posts: 11
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4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.
ethang5
Posts: 4,115
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4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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4/17/2014 5:57:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

As soon as some one makes any claim about God or anything at what it is or isn't worthy off it's a huge problem cause the whole question then becomes, well how exactly does one determine if something is or isn't worthy of something ? I have not seen as answer to that question.

But I have seen baseless assertions of what God is worthy of or man isn't or what ever.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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4/17/2014 6:33:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

If the god allows people to suffer for eternity, I'd class that as a god unworthy of worship.
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PureX
Posts: 1,528
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4/17/2014 8:34:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

I'm not sure I understand what it means to "worship" an idea based on mystery. I can claim that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that exists, and yet I still have no idea what that is. I can say that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of my own existence, and I still won't know what God is. Because the source, sustenance and purpose of existence, including my own, remains a mystery to me.

So how do I "worship" that which I cannot know, or understand?

On the other hand, I am very grateful for the gift of my existence, and for the gift of all else that exists with me. Truly, I am! I see existing as a wondrous and glorious thing, and I try to remember to revel in it every day. Is that worship? Maybe, I don't know. Sometimes I even say a kind of prayer of gratitude, out loud, thanking God for this glorious day, or for the gift of my family, or for the beautiful art we humans are able to create. And yet I still don't really know to what I am praying in gratitude, to. But I do it anyway, because I know if nothing else, it's good for me to remind myself of all these gifts, and that they have been given to me. I didn't earn them.

I don't know what worship is. But if it's praise and gratitude, then I definitely do worship. And I don't know what God is, but if God is the source and sustenance and purpose of all that exists (which is the definition I was taught growing up) then I guess I do worship God. And I'm proud and happy to do so.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/17/2014 4:58:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

Dont you think that trust and worship should be earned? Or should you give it to anyone, any thing?
Omaribrahim
Posts: 11
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4/17/2014 5:05:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:34:25 AM, PureX wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

I'm not sure I understand what it means to "worship" an idea based on mystery. I can claim that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that exists, and yet I still have no idea what that is. I can say that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of my own existence, and I still won't know what God is. Because the source, sustenance and purpose of existence, including my own, remains a mystery to me.

So how do I "worship" that which I cannot know, or understand?

On the other hand, I am very grateful for the gift of my existence, and for the gift of all else that exists with me. Truly, I am! I see existing as a wondrous and glorious thing, and I try to remember to revel in it every day. Is that worship? Maybe, I don't know. Sometimes I even say a kind of prayer of gratitude, out loud, thanking God for this glorious day, or for the gift of my family, or for the beautiful art we humans are able to create. And yet I still don't really know to what I am praying in gratitude, to. But I do it anyway, because I know if nothing else, it's good for me to remind myself of all these gifts, and that they have been given to me. I didn't earn them.

I don't know what worship is. But if it's praise and gratitude, then I definitely do worship. And I don't know what God is, but if God is the source and sustenance and purpose of all that exists (which is the definition I was taught growing up) then I guess I do worship God. And I'm proud and happy to do so.

I think I get your point or definition of worship, but my point is, why would I worship an unfair god? Just because I'm greatful for the stuff that he gave me which I didn't actually ask for?
Omaribrahim
Posts: 11
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4/17/2014 5:11:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

He's unworthy for three reasons. First, I don't see his fairness in life even though a leader should absolutlry be fair. Secondly, because he's basically asking me to humiliate myself for him and he humble to him for the stuff that he supposedly gave me when I didn't actually ask for them. And when I don't worship, he'll send me to hell. Thirdly, because my original state is not worshipping anyone. You can't create a God and ask me to worship him and then make that as your standard or your base because its not. This is why you can't ask why not to worship hin, you gotta ask why worship him on the first place.

Excuse my spelling I'm still getting used to my keyboard.
Omaribrahim
Posts: 11
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4/17/2014 5:15:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 5:57:56 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

As soon as some one makes any claim about God or anything at what it is or isn't worthy off it's a huge problem cause the whole question then becomes, well how exactly does one determine if something is or isn't worthy of something ? I have not seen as answer to that question.

But I have seen baseless assertions of what God is worthy of or man isn't or what ever.

Being worthy or not is very relative in my opinion. You'll never have like a scale to measure that on. But still, there are some thoughts you need to take into consideration before actually worshipping. For example, you can't worship an unfair God. Or an abusive one. So if you see that God is just, for example, and because of that he's worthy of worship, then please state your reasons of why you think so. I personally have not experienced the fair God that people claim he is and I cannot say he's fair until I experience it.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/17/2014 5:19:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 5:05:51 PM, Omaribrahim wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:34:25 AM, PureX wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

I'm not sure I understand what it means to "worship" an idea based on mystery. I can claim that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that exists, and yet I still have no idea what that is. I can say that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of my own existence, and I still won't know what God is. Because the source, sustenance and purpose of existence, including my own, remains a mystery to me.

So how do I "worship" that which I cannot know, or understand?

On the other hand, I am very grateful for the gift of my existence, and for the gift of all else that exists with me. Truly, I am! I see existing as a wondrous and glorious thing, and I try to remember to revel in it every day. Is that worship? Maybe, I don't know. Sometimes I even say a kind of prayer of gratitude, out loud, thanking God for this glorious day, or for the gift of my family, or for the beautiful art we humans are able to create. And yet I still don't really know to what I am praying in gratitude, to. But I do it anyway, because I know if nothing else, it's good for me to remind myself of all these gifts, and that they have been given to me. I didn't earn them.

I don't know what worship is. But if it's praise and gratitude, then I definitely do worship. And I don't know what God is, but if God is the source and sustenance and purpose of all that exists (which is the definition I was taught growing up) then I guess I do worship God. And I'm proud and happy to do so.

I think I get your point or definition of worship, but my point is, why would I worship an unfair god? Just because I'm greatful for the stuff that he gave me which I didn't actually ask for?

If you believe that God is unfair then you shouldn't worship him. Of course there are two words here which I personally don't particularly like: "worship" and "God." They've both have too much baggage attached to them to assign any clear meaning. If I had to say, though, I would say that if you believe in God, and that he is good, then you should love him. Power corrupts, as they say, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So if God has managed to remain good despite having enormous power then he is definitely worthy of love and respect.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/17/2014 5:23:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:33:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

If the god allows people to suffer for eternity, I'd class that as a god unworthy of worship.

I'd say that would depend on why he allowed them to suffer. Maybe suffering has a purpose. Maybe it's necessary in order to cleanse the soul. If that is true then I would much rather suffer temporarily in exchange for eternal salvation. There is a big difference between causing pain and allowing it to exist. Anyway, it's just a rhetorical question.
Saska
Posts: 33
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4/17/2014 5:25:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If I found out today that the biblical God did exist, I would not worship him. I would acknowledge him and thank him for putting me here, but I would not give him my praise, in the same way that if I had a parent who beat me and my siblings constantly and treated me like garbage, then ignored me the rest of the time, would not be worth of my love or praise.

Creating humanity only to wipe them out in a flood and then punish anyone who disobeys many very vague orders that are contradicted many times over by torturing them in hell for all eternity would be, in my opinion, a little worse than an abusive parent.
Omaribrahim
Posts: 11
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4/17/2014 5:31:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

If you believe that God is unfair then you shouldn't worship him. Of course there are two words here which I personally don't particularly like: "worship" and "God." They've both have too much baggage attached to them to assign any clear meaning. If I had to say, though, I would say that if you believe in God, and that he is good, then you should love him. Power corrupts, as they say, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So if God has managed to remain good despite having enormous power then he is definitely worthy of love and respect.

I agree with you but do you think that he's not corrupt then?
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/17/2014 5:47:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 5:31:48 PM, Omaribrahim wrote:

If you believe that God is unfair then you shouldn't worship him. Of course there are two words here which I personally don't particularly like: "worship" and "God." They've both have too much baggage attached to them to assign any clear meaning. If I had to say, though, I would say that if you believe in God, and that he is good, then you should love him. Power corrupts, as they say, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. So if God has managed to remain good despite having enormous power then he is definitely worthy of love and respect.

I agree with you but do you think that he's not corrupt then?

In all honesty I have no idea of God's characteristics, but reason tells me that a being so powerful would probably have no need to be corrupt. It's really one of those questions which no person could possibly answer beyond the point of providing an opinion.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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4/17/2014 6:00:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well He created everything. Created the rules of the universe. Created us. Created the idea of right and wrong. Created our intellect. Created all the matter in the universe.

The person who made all of that is worthy of praise in my book.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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4/17/2014 6:32:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 5:05:51 PM, Omaribrahim wrote:

I think I get your point or definition of worship, but my point is, why would I worship an unfair god? Just because I'm greatful for the stuff that he gave me which I didn't actually ask for?

The problem I see with what I would ask God for, is that I don't really know how or why anything is the way it is. So I don't really know what would happen if I actually did get my way. But I suspect, for many very good reasons, that if God did everything I asked, the world would be in a far greater mess than it is, now. And I'm not saying that for a joke.

Even with all my best intentions, I would have no idea how to orchestrate existence. And one of the reasons, is that I don't really know what's right or what's wrong. Sure, I don't like to see people suffer. And yet most of the important lessons I've learned so far in my life were learned only because I suffered. Or because I directly caused someone else to suffer. And the truth is, that if this had not happened, I would not have come to understand some of the few really important things I know.

Also, there's the matter of free will. Without it, we are pointless. Yet, with it, we are free to screw up, screw ourselves, and screw each other. And I have no idea how to resolve this dilemma. And if I can't resolve it, I don't see where I'd get off blaming God for not resolving it.

Truth is, WE'RE the ones causing most of the suffering in the world, not God. And WE could stop it today, if we would simply choose to. So why blame God for it?
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/17/2014 6:42:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 5:23:55 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:33:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

If the god allows people to suffer for eternity, I'd class that as a god unworthy of worship.

I'd say that would depend on why he allowed them to suffer. Maybe suffering has a purpose. Maybe it's necessary in order to cleanse the soul. If that is true then I would much rather suffer temporarily in exchange for eternal salvation. There is a big difference between causing pain and allowing it to exist. Anyway, it's just a rhetorical question.

hmmm...so children dying in africa are suffering for a purpose?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/17/2014 6:42:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
indifference isn't worthy of worship...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/17/2014 6:51:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:42:07 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/17/2014 5:23:55 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:33:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

If the god allows people to suffer for eternity, I'd class that as a god unworthy of worship.

I'd say that would depend on why he allowed them to suffer. Maybe suffering has a purpose. Maybe it's necessary in order to cleanse the soul. If that is true then I would much rather suffer temporarily in exchange for eternal salvation. There is a big difference between causing pain and allowing it to exist. Anyway, it's just a rhetorical question.

hmmm...so children dying in africa are suffering for a purpose?

Like I said before, I have no idea. I know that American doctors force children to suffer in order to save their lives. Does that have a purpose? Would it be worth it to save their souls if they exist?
Saska
Posts: 33
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4/17/2014 7:01:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 6:51:59 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:42:07 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/17/2014 5:23:55 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:33:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

If the god allows people to suffer for eternity, I'd class that as a god unworthy of worship.

I'd say that would depend on why he allowed them to suffer. Maybe suffering has a purpose. Maybe it's necessary in order to cleanse the soul. If that is true then I would much rather suffer temporarily in exchange for eternal salvation. There is a big difference between causing pain and allowing it to exist. Anyway, it's just a rhetorical question.

hmmm...so children dying in africa are suffering for a purpose?

Like I said before, I have no idea. I know that American doctors force children to suffer in order to save their lives. Does that have a purpose? Would it be worth it to save their souls if they exist?

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all loving, he should be able and willing to save their souls in a way that doesn't cause him to drop them onto the planet long enough to not eat enough food and die of starvation. Either the biblical God does not exist, exists and is all-loving but is not all-powerful and all-knowing, or he exists and is all-powerful and all-knowing, but is not all-loving. He can not possibly exist and be all three.
obrienkr
Posts: 33
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4/17/2014 7:08:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:34:25 AM, PureX wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

I'm not sure I understand what it means to "worship" an idea based on mystery. I can claim that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of all that exists, and yet I still have no idea what that is. I can say that God is the source, sustenance, and purpose of my own existence, and I still won't know what God is. Because the source, sustenance and purpose of existence, including my own, remains a mystery to me.

So how do I "worship" that which I cannot know, or understand?

On the other hand, I am very grateful for the gift of my existence, and for the gift of all else that exists with me. Truly, I am! I see existing as a wondrous and glorious thing, and I try to remember to revel in it every day. Is that worship? Maybe, I don't know. Sometimes I even say a kind of prayer of gratitude, out loud, thanking God for this glorious day, or for the gift of my family, or for the beautiful art we humans are able to create. And yet I still don't really know to what I am praying in gratitude, to. But I do it anyway, because I know if nothing else, it's good for me to remind myself of all these gifts, and that they have been given to me. I didn't earn them.

I don't know what worship is. But if it's praise and gratitude, then I definitely do worship. And I don't know what God is, but if God is the source and sustenance and purpose of all that exists (which is the definition I was taught growing up) then I guess I do worship God. And I'm proud and happy to do so.

For what it's worth, I think you've defined "worship" fairly well. In my opinion worship involves praise and thanks. The origin of the word is actually quite interesting. It came from an Old English, or possibly Middle English, word that pertains to worthiness, in essence the acknowledgement of worth or value. Worth and worship are very closely related concepts.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/17/2014 7:08:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 7:01:34 PM, Saska wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:51:59 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:42:07 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/17/2014 5:23:55 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 6:33:31 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 4/16/2014 2:56:03 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 4/16/2014 3:34:45 AM, Omaribrahim wrote:
For all you believers out there, i want your reason on why you worship God. Please dont turn this into a does God exist discussion because thats not our point here.
For me, God exists but he's unworthy of worship.

Why is He unworthy?

If the god allows people to suffer for eternity, I'd class that as a god unworthy of worship.

I'd say that would depend on why he allowed them to suffer. Maybe suffering has a purpose. Maybe it's necessary in order to cleanse the soul. If that is true then I would much rather suffer temporarily in exchange for eternal salvation. There is a big difference between causing pain and allowing it to exist. Anyway, it's just a rhetorical question.

hmmm...so children dying in africa are suffering for a purpose?

Like I said before, I have no idea. I know that American doctors force children to suffer in order to save their lives. Does that have a purpose? Would it be worth it to save their souls if they exist?

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all loving, he should be able and willing to save their souls in a way that doesn't cause him to drop them onto the planet long enough to not eat enough food and die of starvation. Either the biblical God does not exist, exists and is all-loving but is not all-powerful and all-knowing, or he exists and is all-powerful and all-knowing, but is not all-loving. He can not possibly exist and be all three.

That's the same thing I tend to believe. I don't think anyone knows enough about what constitutes "God" to say that he is omnipotent. That probably came from a bunch of people arguing over whose god was strongest, as you know they did. Their very lives depended on their god being stronger than the other guy's god. It was only a matter of time before someone claimed that theirs was ALL-powerful. But God didn't have to be all-powerful in order to be a creator.
Saska
Posts: 33
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4/17/2014 7:17:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 7:08:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:01:34 PM, Saska wrote:

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all loving, he should be able and willing to save their souls in a way that doesn't cause him to drop them onto the planet long enough to not eat enough food and die of starvation. Either the biblical God does not exist, exists and is all-loving but is not all-powerful and all-knowing, or he exists and is all-powerful and all-knowing, but is not all-loving. He can not possibly exist and be all three.

That's the same thing I tend to believe. I don't think anyone knows enough about what constitutes "God" to say that he is omnipotent. That probably came from a bunch of people arguing over whose god was strongest, as you know they did. Their very lives depended on their god being stronger than the other guy's god. It was only a matter of time before someone claimed that theirs was ALL-powerful. But God didn't have to be all-powerful in order to be a creator.

The bible does make those claims though. So if we are discussing the Christian God, then there is a clear issue. I do not dispute that there could be a creator (I do not believe there is one, but I accept the possibility) but I completely dispute that the God of the bible is real. I see no possible way that god could exist in the way the bible explains. I like your analogy of people saying 'well my god can do this....'

I also do not see the evidence around us as evidence of a creator though, or at least not a terribly intelligent one. Nature is so extremely wasteful and so far from perfect. The majority of species on our planet has failed to continue living. There are imperfections around every corner. There are billions of planets without any capability of supporting life. If there is a divine creator, he or she likely were not in the upper percentile of their 'creating life' class.

If I painted a billion pictures and one of them turned out to be beautiful while the rest were universally accepted as complete crap, would I be considered a brilliant artist, or a terrible artist who go lucky with one picture?
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/17/2014 8:00:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 7:17:03 PM, Saska wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:08:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:01:34 PM, Saska wrote:

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all loving, he should be able and willing to save their souls in a way that doesn't cause him to drop them onto the planet long enough to not eat enough food and die of starvation. Either the biblical God does not exist, exists and is all-loving but is not all-powerful and all-knowing, or he exists and is all-powerful and all-knowing, but is not all-loving. He can not possibly exist and be all three.

That's the same thing I tend to believe. I don't think anyone knows enough about what constitutes "God" to say that he is omnipotent. That probably came from a bunch of people arguing over whose god was strongest, as you know they did. Their very lives depended on their god being stronger than the other guy's god. It was only a matter of time before someone claimed that theirs was ALL-powerful. But God didn't have to be all-powerful in order to be a creator.

The bible does make those claims though. So if we are discussing the Christian God, then there is a clear issue. I do not dispute that there could be a creator (I do not believe there is one, but I accept the possibility) but I completely dispute that the God of the bible is real. I see no possible way that god could exist in the way the bible explains. I like your analogy of people saying 'well my god can do this....'

I also do not see the evidence around us as evidence of a creator though, or at least not a terribly intelligent one. Nature is so extremely wasteful and so far from perfect. The majority of species on our planet has failed to continue living. There are imperfections around every corner. There are billions of planets without any capability of supporting life. If there is a divine creator, he or she likely were not in the upper percentile of their 'creating life' class.

If I painted a billion pictures and one of them turned out to be beautiful while the rest were universally accepted as complete crap, would I be considered a brilliant artist, or a terrible artist who go lucky with one picture?

Are we discussing the Christian God? I thought we were just discussing God in general. There are a lot of "Bibles", one for every religion, though they go by different names. I have a hard time following the god of any particular holy book. They were each written from their authors' perspectives.

It doesn't bother me whether or not a person believes in God. I believe in a higher order, but I'm not sure what to call it. None of us really decide what to believe. We can lie about it, even to ourselves, but our beliefs develop from our experiences, lessons, and observations. Billions of them. More than we can decipher or control. Seeing "God" is sort of like seeing a certain object in a Rorschach test. It's as much about what you see as it is about what is there, and people find themselves changing their minds all the time.

You have a point about all the wasted space, but the opposite to that is the argument that it was all necessary for life to exist. If any one of dozens of factors were changed by even 1% (including the total mass of all matter in the universe) then life as we know it wouldn't be possible. You know: the fine-tuning argument. Richard Dawkins said he found it the most persuasive argument for creation. All I know is that the sum of my life has led me to believe that there is a purpose for our existence, and an intelligence that exists at a level beyond ours.
RHEMA.97
Posts: 42
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4/17/2014 8:20:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:00:07 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:17:03 PM, Saska wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:08:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:01:34 PM, Saska wrote:

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all loving, he should be able and willing to save their souls in a way that doesn't cause him to drop them onto the planet long enough to not eat enough food and die of starvation. Either the biblical God does not exist, exists and is all-loving but is not all-powerful and all-knowing, or he exists and is all-powerful and all-knowing, but is not all-loving. He can not possibly exist and be all three.

That's the same thing I tend to believe. I don't think anyone knows enough about what constitutes "God" to say that he is omnipotent. That probably came from a bunch of people arguing over whose god was strongest, as you know they did. Their very lives depended on their god being stronger than the other guy's god. It was only a matter of time before someone claimed that theirs was ALL-powerful. But God didn't have to be all-powerful in order to be a creator.

The bible does make those claims though. So if we are discussing the Christian God, then there is a clear issue. I do not dispute that there could be a creator (I do not believe there is one, but I accept the possibility) but I completely dispute that the God of the bible is real. I see no possible way that god could exist in the way the bible explains. I like your analogy of people saying 'well my god can do this....'

I also do not see the evidence around us as evidence of a creator though, or at least not a terribly intelligent one. Nature is so extremely wasteful and so far from perfect. The majority of species on our planet has failed to continue living. There are imperfections around every corner. There are billions of planets without any capability of supporting life. If there is a divine creator, he or she likely were not in the upper percentile of their 'creating life' class.

If I painted a billion pictures and one of them turned out to be beautiful while the rest were universally accepted as complete crap, would I be considered a brilliant artist, or a terrible artist who go lucky with one picture?

Are we discussing the Christian God? I thought we were just discussing God in general. There are a lot of "Bibles", one for every religion, though they go by different names. I have a hard time following the god of any particular holy book. They were each written from their authors' perspectives.

It doesn't bother me whether or not a person believes in God. I believe in a higher order, but I'm not sure what to call it. None of us really decide what to believe. We can lie about it, even to ourselves, but our beliefs develop from our experiences, lessons, and observations. Billions of them. More than we can decipher or control. Seeing "God" is sort of like seeing a certain object in a Rorschach test. It's as much about what you see as it is about what is there, and people find themselves changing their minds all the time.

You have a point about all the wasted space, but the opposite to that is the argument that it was all necessary for life to exist. If any one of dozens of factors were changed by even 1% (including the total mass of all matter in the universe) then life as we know it wouldn't be possible. You know: the fine-tuning argument. Richard Dawkins said he found it the most persuasive argument for creation. All I know is that the sum of my life has led me to believe that there is a purpose for our existence, and an intelligence that exists at a level beyond ours.

The christian God should never be compared to any other god. thats the only real God. Evolution itself is impossible because even single celled organisms are to complex to be formed out of the blue.
Evolution was inspired by devil and is the doctrine that will take many to hell. Remeber if you are wrong there are no second chances to life.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/17/2014 8:33:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:20:54 PM, RHEMA.97 wrote:
At 4/17/2014 8:00:07 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:17:03 PM, Saska wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:08:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/17/2014 7:01:34 PM, Saska wrote:

If God is all-knowing, all-powerful and all loving, he should be able and willing to save their souls in a way that doesn't cause him to drop them onto the planet long enough to not eat enough food and die of starvation. Either the biblical God does not exist, exists and is all-loving but is not all-powerful and all-knowing, or he exists and is all-powerful and all-knowing, but is not all-loving. He can not possibly exist and be all three.

That's the same thing I tend to believe. I don't think anyone knows enough about what constitutes "God" to say that he is omnipotent. That probably came from a bunch of people arguing over whose god was strongest, as you know they did. Their very lives depended on their god being stronger than the other guy's god. It was only a matter of time before someone claimed that theirs was ALL-powerful. But God didn't have to be all-powerful in order to be a creator.

The bible does make those claims though. So if we are discussing the Christian God, then there is a clear issue. I do not dispute that there could be a creator (I do not believe there is one, but I accept the possibility) but I completely dispute that the God of the bible is real. I see no possible way that god could exist in the way the bible explains. I like your analogy of people saying 'well my god can do this....'

I also do not see the evidence around us as evidence of a creator though, or at least not a terribly intelligent one. Nature is so extremely wasteful and so far from perfect. The majority of species on our planet has failed to continue living. There are imperfections around every corner. There are billions of planets without any capability of supporting life. If there is a divine creator, he or she likely were not in the upper percentile of their 'creating life' class.

If I painted a billion pictures and one of them turned out to be beautiful while the rest were universally accepted as complete crap, would I be considered a brilliant artist, or a terrible artist who go lucky with one picture?

Are we discussing the Christian God? I thought we were just discussing God in general. There are a lot of "Bibles", one for every religion, though they go by different names. I have a hard time following the god of any particular holy book. They were each written from their authors' perspectives.

It doesn't bother me whether or not a person believes in God. I believe in a higher order, but I'm not sure what to call it. None of us really decide what to believe. We can lie about it, even to ourselves, but our beliefs develop from our experiences, lessons, and observations. Billions of them. More than we can decipher or control. Seeing "God" is sort of like seeing a certain object in a Rorschach test. It's as much about what you see as it is about what is there, and people find themselves changing their minds all the time.

You have a point about all the wasted space, but the opposite to that is the argument that it was all necessary for life to exist. If any one of dozens of factors were changed by even 1% (including the total mass of all matter in the universe) then life as we know it wouldn't be possible. You know: the fine-tuning argument. Richard Dawkins said he found it the most persuasive argument for creation. All I know is that the sum of my life has led me to believe that there is a purpose for our existence, and an intelligence that exists at a level beyond ours.

The christian God should never be compared to any other god. thats the only real God. Evolution itself is impossible because even single celled organisms are to complex to be formed out of the blue.
Evolution was inspired by devil and is the doctrine that will take many to hell. Remeber if you are wrong there are no second chances to life.

There's no need to preach to me, or to anyone else. Believe me, I've heard it all before. I was in a youth-group for several years, and belonged to a few different churches when I was young. I love the teachings of Jesus, but it's because of what he said that I will never play favorites again. Everyone on Earth is an equal to everyone else, and as Jesus said, all that really matters is that you not only love but show that love as well.
Saska
Posts: 33
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4/17/2014 8:33:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:20:54 PM, RHEMA.97 wrote:

The christian God should never be compared to any other god. thats the only real God. Evolution itself is impossible because even single celled organisms are to complex to be formed out of the blue.
Evolution was inspired by devil and is the doctrine that will take many to hell. Remeber if you are wrong there are no second chances to life.

Unless of course you are sorry for being wrong. Then the Christian God is All-forgiving. Unless you do certain things that are unforgivable. But if you are REALLY sorry, he may still waiver. The Christian God should be compared to every other God because it is on the same level as the rest of them.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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4/17/2014 8:48:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would also add, like many God claims........God him......err it's self has never asked or commanded me to worship him. But people have told me what God wants.....they never shut the F8ck up about it.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth, like something isn't right here.......

Just imagine some sort of entity that is all powerful, all knowing appears, hey you, puny human........worship me.

Ok sure but first........

1) Why ?

2) Do you get anything out of this ? seriously ?

3) What would you like me to say about you ? how big you are ? how powerful you are ? how awesome you are ? and repeat this over and over and over ? maybe sing it ? rap it ? once again, is this doing anything for ya?

once again it worth reminding, the only entities I see making God claims are well humans...........not Gods. Funny about that eh ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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4/17/2014 9:02:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/17/2014 8:55:20 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Because she's a perfect being.

God...........a woman ?

See now your just being silly.

What next, a black Jesus ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12