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Religion created by man for politics

debateuser
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4/19/2014 11:10:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Humans don't exactly know why they are here in this world. So there has to be someone who knows the reason. For my convenience I call that reason God. But I would add that defining God is very difficult and clearly religions sound absurd. I think as time passes science will be able to answer some of these questions. I think it is natural to believe in God if you don't know why are human beings here. My common sense tells me that for such a complex world to exist and perform there has to be someone who knows the answers. But believing in God is one thing and believing in a religion is another thing.

Believing in God does not mean you should believe in religion also. These 2 things are different in many ways. Firstly if you want to believe in religion then which one. There are many religions in this world and with opposite ideas also. One religion considers eating meat OK while other considers it bad. If all religions come from same God then why are they so different. If God wanted humans to believe in a religion he would himself tell all humans to believe in it with no middleman involved. A lot of religions rely on testimonies of a few humans to prove that God asked humans to believe in religion. Nobody can tell what is going on inside a persons mind , then how can someone trust the testimonies of a few individuals. They might be telling lies, hallucinating or imagining things or they might be trying to gain some political influence for themselves. People who hallucinate are not necessrarily mad. Hallucination can cause people to believe that they are Prophets of God or God themselves. Read details about hallucination and delusion from any science book . Religious scholars try to take advantage of the natural belief in God to justify existence of religion. Say it in another way there is no real proof of religion. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat, hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate.
A common concept among many religions is the concept of angels whom God uses to contact Prophets. According religious literature these angels are made out of light and they communicate with Prophets. Firstly something which is made out of light , how can it make a sound that can be heard by the human ear. People who wrote these religious literature probably did not anticipate that science will expose them.
All religions have the concept of sin and good. If you do this god will be happy and if you do that god will be annoyed. Firstly let me give you an example. Suppose you created something say a robot. You programmed the robot to blink a light at all times .Now you come and tell the robot to stop the light without changing his programming. The robot will not obey you because you programmed robot to blink at all times. Now let me come to the point. Human beings behave the way god programmed them to behave .If they are doing something bad it is their programming which god has himself done. Then how can god say that you are doing something wrong. We as humans can say that you God have made us this way. Its not our fault. The concept of sin can not exist at the same time as the concept that God created humans. A lot of religions have forecasts of God about the future. This would mean that God knows what will happen in future. If God exactly knows what will happen in future then he must have programmed everything in this world. And if he has programmed everything in this world then how can he say that if you do this , it will be a sin. This means that the concept of sin and good is not Gods creations but only a creation of the evil human mind. Then comes the golden question that why are there so many religions in the world .Religions are a sort of mind control created by humans to influence others . It is easy to control humans in such a way. The government bribes a few religious leaders and they can misguide the public in any way they want. A lot of wars have been fought for political reasons in religion name for example the crusades. Now a days there are also some evidence of religious leaders taking bribes . I believe that there are reports of famous religious leaders in Asia who have taken bribes from foreign countries. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat , hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate. The existence of God is purely a scientific topic. Believing in God does not mean to believe in a religion.

As far as praying is concerned. I think religious leaders use praying and reward as a means of recruiting people into their religion. I don't doubt that if God wanted to help a human , he can. But the real question is why would he want to help you . Has God told you that he wants to help you personally if you pray. Take example of a lottery ticket that 1000 people buy. All of them pray for the first prize. Only one gets the first prize. Does this mean that the rest are not God's favorite or are less moral. In daily life you will many such examples in which people with high moral values remain behind and those who cheat go ahead. Politics is the biggest example. All politicians are liars and immoral who kill or damage others to get ahead yet they are very powerful and successful. Praying can give you strength to bear hardships because it acts like Self hypnosis. Since a human believes that God will help him , it gives him strength. Its all in the mind. For example if a Hindu prays to christian god it will not help because Hindus don't believe in Christianity. It all depends on what you believe.

There is a small question from my side. How would you categorize my views : atheism, theism, agnostic, deism, spiritual but not religious or just some without religion.

Please give your comments and views. I am not perfect . I especially love views that have an impact on my thinking and are able to change it or make it better.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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http://www.debate.org...
monty1
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4/19/2014 11:42:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/19/2014 11:10:58 AM, debateuser wrote:
Humans don't exactly know why they are here in this world. So there has to be someone who knows the reason. For my convenience I call that reason God. But I would add that defining God is very difficult and clearly religions sound absurd. I think as time passes science will be able to answer some of these questions. I think it is natural to believe in God if you don't know why are human beings here. My common sense tells me that for such a complex world to exist and perform there has to be someone who knows the answers. But believing in God is one thing and believing in a religion is another thing.

Believing in God does not mean you should believe in religion also. These 2 things are different in many ways. Firstly if you want to believe in religion then which one. There are many religions in this world and with opposite ideas also. One religion considers eating meat OK while other considers it bad. If all religions come from same God then why are they so different. If God wanted humans to believe in a religion he would himself tell all humans to believe in it with no middleman involved. A lot of religions rely on testimonies of a few humans to prove that God asked humans to believe in religion. Nobody can tell what is going on inside a persons mind , then how can someone trust the testimonies of a few individuals. They might be telling lies, hallucinating or imagining things or they might be trying to gain some political influence for themselves. People who hallucinate are not necessrarily mad. Hallucination can cause people to believe that they are Prophets of God or God themselves. Read details about hallucination and delusion from any science book . Religious scholars try to take advantage of the natural belief in God to justify existence of religion. Say it in another way there is no real proof of religion. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat, hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate.
A common concept among many religions is the concept of angels whom God uses to contact Prophets. According religious literature these angels are made out of light and they communicate with Prophets. Firstly something which is made out of light , how can it make a sound that can be heard by the human ear. People who wrote these religious literature probably did not anticipate that science will expose them.
All religions have the concept of sin and good. If you do this god will be happy and if you do that god will be annoyed. Firstly let me give you an example. Suppose you created something say a robot. You programmed the robot to blink a light at all times .Now you come and tell the robot to stop the light without changing his programming. The robot will not obey you because you programmed robot to blink at all times. Now let me come to the point. Human beings behave the way god programmed them to behave .If they are doing something bad it is their programming which god has himself done. Then how can god say that you are doing something wrong. We as humans can say that you God have made us this way. Its not our fault. The concept of sin can not exist at the same time as the concept that God created humans. A lot of religions have forecasts of God about the future. This would mean that God knows what will happen in future. If God exactly knows what will happen in future then he must have programmed everything in this world. And if he has programmed everything in this world then how can he say that if you do this , it will be a sin. This means that the concept of sin and good is not Gods creations but only a creation of the evil human mind. Then comes the golden question that why are there so many religions in the world .Religions are a sort of mind control created by humans to influence others . It is easy to control humans in such a way. The government bribes a few religious leaders and they can misguide the public in any way they want. A lot of wars have been fought for political reasons in religion name for example the crusades. Now a days there are also some evidence of religious leaders taking bribes . I believe that there are reports of famous religious leaders in Asia who have taken bribes from foreign countries. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat , hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate. The existence of God is purely a scientific topic. Believing in God does not mean to believe in a religion.

As far as praying is concerned. I think religious leaders use praying and reward as a means of recruiting people into their religion. I don't doubt that if God wanted to help a human , he can. But the real question is why would he want to help you . Has God told you that he wants to help you personally if you pray. Take example of a lottery ticket that 1000 people buy. All of them pray for the first prize. Only one gets the first prize. Does this mean that the rest are not God's favorite or are less moral. In daily life you will many such examples in which people with high moral values remain behind and those who cheat go ahead. Politics is the biggest example. All politicians are liars and immoral who kill or damage others to get ahead yet they are very powerful and successful. Praying can give you strength to bear hardships because it acts like Self hypnosis. Since a human believes that God will help him , it gives him strength. Its all in the mind. For example if a Hindu prays to christian god it will not help because Hindus don't believe in Christianity. It all depends on what you believe.

There is a small question from my side. How would you categorize my views : atheism, theism, agnostic, deism, spiritual but not religious or just some without religion.

Please give your comments and views. I am not perfect . I especially love views that have an impact on my thinking and are able to change it or make it better.

You and brother neutral should put your heads together and come up with something that works for both of you. He's pretty much there with you in his attempts to reconcile religious superstitions with science. And fwiw, it works o.k. for catholics so it could go mainstream!
neutral
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4/19/2014 2:42:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/19/2014 11:10:58 AM, debateuser wrote:
Humans don't exactly know why they are here in this world. So there has to be someone who knows the reason. For my convenience I call that reason God. But I would add that defining God is very difficult and clearly religions sound absurd. I think as time passes science will be able to answer some of these questions. I think it is natural to believe in God if you don't know why are human beings here. My common sense tells me that for such a complex world to exist and perform there has to be someone who knows the answers. But believing in God is one thing and believing in a religion is another thing.

Believing in God does not mean you should believe in religion also. These 2 things are different in many ways. Firstly if you want to believe in religion then which one. There are many religions in this world and with opposite ideas also. One religion considers eating meat OK while other considers it bad. If all religions come from same God then why are they so different. If God wanted humans to believe in a religion he would himself tell all humans to believe in it with no middleman involved. A lot of religions rely on testimonies of a few humans to prove that God asked humans to believe in religion. Nobody can tell what is going on inside a persons mind , then how can someone trust the testimonies of a few individuals. They might be telling lies, hallucinating or imagining things or they might be trying to gain some political influence for themselves. People who hallucinate are not necessrarily mad. Hallucination can cause people to believe that they are Prophets of God or God themselves. Read details about hallucination and delusion from any science book . Religious scholars try to take advantage of the natural belief in God to justify existence of religion. Say it in another way there is no real proof of religion. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat, hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate.
A common concept among many religions is the concept of angels whom God uses to contact Prophets. According religious literature these angels are made out of light and they communicate with Prophets. Firstly something which is made out of light , how can it make a sound that can be heard by the human ear. People who wrote these religious literature probably did not anticipate that science will expose them.
All religions have the concept of sin and good. If you do this god will be happy and if you do that god will be annoyed. Firstly let me give you an example. Suppose you created something say a robot. You programmed the robot to blink a light at all times .Now you come and tell the robot to stop the light without changing his programming. The robot will not obey you because you programmed robot to blink at all times. Now let me come to the point. Human beings behave the way god programmed them to behave .If they are doing something bad it is their programming which god has himself done. Then how can god say that you are doing something wrong. We as humans can say that you God have made us this way. Its not our fault. The concept of sin can not exist at the same time as the concept that God created humans. A lot of religions have forecasts of God about the future. This would mean that God knows what will happen in future. If God exactly knows what will happen in future then he must have programmed everything in this world. And if he has programmed everything in this world then how can he say that if you do this , it will be a sin. This means that the concept of sin and good is not Gods creations but only a creation of the evil human mind. Then comes the golden question that why are there so many religions in the world .Religions are a sort of mind control created by humans to influence others . It is easy to control humans in such a way. The government bribes a few religious leaders and they can misguide the public in any way they want. A lot of wars have been fought for political reasons in religion name for example the crusades. Now a days there are also some evidence of religious leaders taking bribes . I believe that there are reports of famous religious leaders in Asia who have taken bribes from foreign countries. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat , hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate. The existence of God is purely a scientific topic. Believing in God does not mean to believe in a religion.

As far as praying is concerned. I think religious leaders use praying and reward as a means of recruiting people into their religion. I don't doubt that if God wanted to help a human , he can. But the real question is why would he want to help you . Has God told you that he wants to help you personally if you pray. Take example of a lottery ticket that 1000 people buy. All of them pray for the first prize. Only one gets the first prize. Does this mean that the rest are not God's favorite or are less moral. In daily life you will many such examples in which people with high moral values remain behind and those who cheat go ahead. Politics is the biggest example. All politicians are liars and immoral who kill or damage others to get ahead yet they are very powerful and successful. Praying can give you strength to bear hardships because it acts like Self hypnosis. Since a human believes that God will help him , it gives him strength. Its all in the mind. For example if a Hindu prays to christian god it will not help because Hindus don't believe in Christianity. It all depends on what you believe.

There is a small question from my side. How would you categorize my views : atheism, theism, agnostic, deism, spiritual but not religious or just some without religion.

Please give your comments and views. I am not perfect . I especially love views that have an impact on my thinking and are able to change it or make it better.

Well, that is a very long winded opinion without an ounce of support.

If you think that religion was created with a specific intent in mind, then you should probably be examining the creation process of religion, which comes before civilization itself even exists.

I see not a single bit of archeology here? Not one.

So tell me, that is a nice opinion and all, but those are like ... ahem, you know whats, so why is this one valid in the slightest?
debateuser
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4/19/2014 10:26:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
@neutral
how can you say religion existed before human civilization. I think for knowing that you are also relying on some religion. Are there some sacred writings, objects discovered by archaeologists who consider it to be before human civilization. The oldest human DNA is about 400000 years old. Did they come up with something older than this to prove religion. Anyway whatever evidence archaeologists may come up with will also be man made for example writings,idols etc. Man has evolved from apes. Did you find evidence of apes believing in religion and you can be sure it is not some primitive beliefs like whatever I am scared of and consider superior, I will call it God or superior being. Human history tells us that humans used to believe in whatever scared of or considered superior for example crocodiles, sun etc. I think at some point some genius started using these primitive beliefs for his own good. Religions have evolved as human thinking has evolved and things which humans are likely to believe atbthat time. First humans were stupid enough to believe that tribal chiefs or leaders were Gods . As they grew smarter , they started believing in Prophets. If religion is from God than why have they evolved so much. They have evolved from few rituals to ones telling you to fight wars.

I will tell you what man does. Humans such as ancient kings and tribal leaders have also called themselves Gods. You forget your history. Pharaoh who called himself God and inspite of that Joseph a prophet agreed to work for him. Why didnt God forbid him to do so .Another case of mutual understanding and politics.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
debateuser
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4/19/2014 10:35:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/19/2014 2:42:57 PM, neutral wrote:
At 4/19/2014 11:10:58 AM, debateuser wrote:
Humans don't exactly know why they are here in this world. So there has to be someone who knows the reason. For my convenience I call that reason God. But I would add that defining God is very difficult and clearly religions sound absurd. I think as time passes science will be able to answer some of these questions. I think it is natural to believe in God if you don't know why are human beings here. My common sense tells me that for such a complex world to exist and perform there has to be someone who knows the answers. But believing in God is one thing and believing in a religion is another thing.

Believing in God does not mean you should believe in religion also. These 2 things are different in many ways. Firstly if you want to believe in religion then which one. There are many religions in this world and with opposite ideas also. One religion considers eating meat OK while other considers it bad. If all religions come from same God then why are they so different. If God wanted humans to believe in a religion he would himself tell all humans to believe in it with no middleman involved. A lot of religions rely on testimonies of a few humans to prove that God asked humans to believe in religion. Nobody can tell what is going on inside a persons mind , then how can someone trust the testimonies of a few individuals. They might be telling lies, hallucinating or imagining things or they might be trying to gain some political influence for themselves. People who hallucinate are not necessrarily mad. Hallucination can cause people to believe that they are Prophets of God or God themselves. Read details about hallucination and delusion from any science book . Religious scholars try to take advantage of the natural belief in God to justify existence of religion. Say it in another way there is no real proof of religion. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat, hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate.
A common concept among many religions is the concept of angels whom God uses to contact Prophets. According religious literature these angels are made out of light and they communicate with Prophets. Firstly something which is made out of light , how can it make a sound that can be heard by the human ear. People who wrote these religious literature probably did not anticipate that science will expose them.
All religions have the concept of sin and good. If you do this god will be happy and if you do that god will be annoyed. Firstly let me give you an example. Suppose you created something say a robot. You programmed the robot to blink a light at all times .Now you come and tell the robot to stop the light without changing his programming. The robot will not obey you because you programmed robot to blink at all times. Now let me come to the point. Human beings behave the way god programmed them to behave .If they are doing something bad it is their programming which god has himself done. Then how can god say that you are doing something wrong. We as humans can say that you God have made us this way. Its not our fault. The concept of sin can not exist at the same time as the concept that God created humans. A lot of religions have forecasts of God about the future. This would mean that God knows what will happen in future. If God exactly knows what will happen in future then he must have programmed everything in this world. And if he has programmed everything in this world then how can he say that if you do this , it will be a sin. This means that the concept of sin and good is not Gods creations but only a creation of the evil human mind. Then comes the golden question that why are there so many religions in the world .Religions are a sort of mind control created by humans to influence others . It is easy to control humans in such a way. The government bribes a few religious leaders and they can misguide the public in any way they want. A lot of wars have been fought for political reasons in religion name for example the crusades. Now a days there are also some evidence of religious leaders taking bribes . I believe that there are reports of famous religious leaders in Asia who have taken bribes from foreign countries. My common sense tell me that if humans can lie, cheat , hallucinate or be bribed then there is no reason to take their testimony to believe in a religion. The only foolproof way of believing in a religion is if God contacts you himself and you are not suffering from a medical condition causing you to hallucinate. The existence of God is purely a scientific topic. Believing in God does not mean to believe in a religion.

As far as praying is concerned. I think religious leaders use praying and reward as a means of recruiting people into their religion. I don't doubt that if God wanted to help a human , he can. But the real question is why would he want to help you . Has God told you that he wants to help you personally if you pray. Take example of a lottery ticket that 1000 people buy. All of them pray for the first prize. Only one gets the first prize. Does this mean that the rest are not God's favorite or are less moral. In daily life you will many such examples in which people with high moral values remain behind and those who cheat go ahead. Politics is the biggest example. All politicians are liars and immoral who kill or damage others to get ahead yet they are very powerful and successful. Praying can give you strength to bear hardships because it acts like Self hypnosis. Since a human believes that God will help him , it gives him strength. Its all in the mind. For example if a Hindu prays to christian god it will not help because Hindus don't believe in Christianity. It all depends on what you believe.

There is a small question from my side. How would you categorize my views : atheism, theism, agnostic, deism, spiritual but not religious or just some without religion.

Please give your comments and views. I am not perfect . I especially love views that have an impact on my thinking and are able to change it or make it better.

Well, that is a very long winded opinion without an ounce of support.

If you think that religion was created with a specific intent in mind, then you should probably be examining the creation process of religion, which comes before civilization itself even exists.

I see not a single bit of archeology here? Not one.

So tell me, that is a nice opinion and all, but those are like ... ahem, you know whats, so why is this one valid in the slightest?

@neutral
how can you say religion existed before human civilization. I think for knowing that you are also relying on some religion. Are there some sacred writings, objects discovered by archaeologists who consider it to be before human civilization. The oldest human DNA is about 400000 years old. Did they come up with something older than this to prove religion. Anyway whatever evidence archaeologists may come up with will also be man made for example writings,idols etc. Man has evolved from apes. Did you find evidence of apes believing in religion and you can be sure it is not some primitive beliefs like whatever I am scared of and consider superior, I will call it God or superior being. Human history tells us that humans used to believe in whatever scared of or considered superior for example crocodiles, sun etc. I think at some point some genius started using these primitive beliefs for his own good. Religions have evolved as human thinking has evolved and things which humans are likely to believe atbthat time. First humans were stupid enough to believe that tribal
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
debateuser
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4/19/2014 10:38:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
@neutral
how can you say religion existed before human civilization. I think for knowing that you are also relying on some religion. Are there some sacred writings, objects discovered by archaeologists who consider it to be before human civilization. The oldest human DNA is about 400000 years old. Did they come up with something older than this to prove religion. Anyway whatever evidence archaeologists may come up with will also be man made for example writings,idols etc. Man has evolved from apes. Did you find evidence of apes believing in religion and you can be sure it is not some primitive beliefs like whatever I am scared of and consider superior, I will call it God or superior being. Human history tells us that humans used to believe in whatever scared of or considered superior for example crocodiles, sun etc. I think at some point some genius started using these primitive beliefs for his own good. Religions have evolved as human thinking has evolved and things which humans are likely to believe atbthat time. First humans were stupid enough to believe that tribal chiefs or leaders were Gods . As they grew smarter , they started believing in Prophets. If religion is from God than why have they evolved so much. They have evolved from few rituals to ones telling you to fight wars.

I will tell you what man does. Humans such as ancient kings and tribal leaders have also called themselves Gods. You forget your history. Pharaoh who called himself God and inspite of that Joseph a prophet agreed to work for him. Why didnt God forbid him to do so .Another case of mutual understanding and politics
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
neutral
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4/20/2014 12:51:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/19/2014 10:38:44 PM, debateuser wrote:
@neutral
how can you say religion existed before human civilization. I think for knowing that you are also relying on some religion. Are there some sacred writings, objects discovered by archaeologists who consider it to be before human civilization. The oldest human DNA is about 400000 years old. Did they come up with something older than this to prove religion. Anyway whatever evidence archaeologists may come up with will also be man made for example writings,idols etc. Man has evolved from apes. Did you find evidence of apes believing in religion and you can be sure it is not some primitive beliefs like whatever I am scared of and consider superior, I will call it God or superior being. Human history tells us that humans used to believe in whatever scared of or considered superior for example crocodiles, sun etc. I think at some point some genius started using these primitive beliefs for his own good. Religions have evolved as human thinking has evolved and things which humans are likely to believe atbthat time. First humans were stupid enough to believe that tribal chiefs or leaders were Gods . As they grew smarter , they started believing in Prophets. If religion is from God than why have they evolved so much. They have evolved from few rituals to ones telling you to fight wars.

I will tell you what man does. Humans such as ancient kings and tribal leaders have also called themselves Gods. You forget your history. Pharaoh who called himself God and inspite of that Joseph a prophet agreed to work for him. Why didnt God forbid him to do so .Another case of mutual understanding and politics

Because of archeology.

Well before the great civilizations were created, you find religious artifacts in austere 'camps' if you will. Humans existed before the great civilizations were created. Religion was there with them. You are aware that humanity had to undergo the neolithic revolution BEFORE civilization is even possible?

In fact, the religious beliefs of the pre-cvilization humans seems to have given them an evolutionary leg up on the competition.

http://www.npr.org...

In fact, many of these ear pre-cvilization implements don't point toward political control, they point toward simple human desires - fertility statues, children and food, being the driving influence of the pre-civilization's needs.

The idea that some King after thousands of years of slow building from farms into cities just sat down and went, "Huh, I think we should create the concept of God to control the masses, what think you?" Is rather silly.

Undoubtedly Kings have tapped into religion for purposes of control, as they have many other ideologies (as our political leaders continue to today), but there are many other implements of state control, first and foremost among them being force: police, Soldiers, etc. The Social Contract and the establishment of justice systems based on rules is also a form of 'control'.

The Rule of Law is however not a bad thing. And in the case of religion, tapping into something that fosters a spirit of tolerance, cooperation, charity. volunteerism, etc. verses the cynicism of constant fault finding? You tell me which virtues a ruler would rather foster in his society? Which are better for the society?

Bottom line: the ideology of atheism can ALSO be used for control, and indeed it has been and continues to be utilized (in concert with other tools of state power) for purposes of control. For some states, competition with any other form of power is not welcome, even opaque religious ones, with all power flowing through the centralized government - pleasing or displeasing it is all that matters and resources are doled out accordingly.

I wonder if you have any comments about states, and there are several, officially encouraging atheism to foster allegiance to itself instead?
debateuser
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4/21/2014 1:14:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@neutral

Increased brain size was beginning , then came tool use, language

development,simple morality and group living. Early religious beliefs were

derived from fear for example burying rituals to take care of loved

ones. Humans always wanted to please things they were afraid from. They

would call anything as God that they were afraid from or considered

superior. Pleasing others for personal gain is also seen in some other

animals. Organized religions in its earliest form can be seen in tribes

or groups with a leader. And yes these leaders used to call themselves

God or someone who God speaks through. Whatever the leader used to

believe the commoners had to believe. When people got more intelligent

they started considering these leaders as common as themselves. This is

when i think Leaders started using middlemen "Prophets". They took God out of the visual and started using Prophets , spiritual leaders through which God speaks so that they can ask them anything to do. The thing is that mans first attempts was to call himself God exposes his true intentions. Whatever these prophets were claiming , science exposes them. Here are a few references if you like :

http://www.disclose.tv...

Nonsense/84021

http://www.dailysquib.co.uk...

igious-books-are-man-made-nonsense.html

http://articles.latimes.com...-

20110718

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

you have read my original topic in which i discussed how sin and good can not co-exist with God being the creator and making forecasts . Actually the concept of sin and good is what humans use to control others. For example a religious leader can say if you fight against other religions it will be a good deed in Gods eyes.

As far as religions benefits are concerned. Its disadvantages outweigh its advantages. Religion is the number one promoter of hatred. Wars being fought for example Crusades. Not only that religious leaders have always been against scientific progress. Many great scientist inventions could not come to the world because religious personalities considered anything which is not in their spiritual books to be creation of devil. Moreover religion is very intolerant towards homosexuals and women. The male superiority which is in many religions point toward it being man made rather than God made.

Atheism in its self is not a political concept. In fact everyone is born without a religion. Atheists can be in any political party. There are many atheists in European North american political parties as well. Atheism is far less controlling as compared to religions because you wont be hearing an atheist as saying that he believes in the worlds first atheist. Whereas you might be someone who is religious as as saying that he is a follower of a spiritual leader. Religion has a direct human control whereas atheism or any other irreligion does not have one.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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4/21/2014 1:20:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@monty1

I used the word God in name only. Actually what i was trying to say that the world has a reason of existence. or something before existence of humans This reason can be anything for example explosion, chemical reaction etc. Now let science discover whatever it is . I will use the word reason only if you think its superstition.

Neutral does not seem to agree with me. I think atheists would probably agree more.

Anyone has not yet categorized my views as being atheist or any other irreligion.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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4/21/2014 1:29:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
A common concept among many religions is the concept of angels whom God uses to contact Prophets. According religious literature these angels are made out of light and they communicate with Prophets. Firstly something which is made out of light , how can it make a sound that can be heard by the human ear. People who wrote these religious literature probably did not anticipate that science will expose them.
All religions have the concept of sin and good. If you do this god will be happy and if you do that god will be annoyed. Firstly let me give you an example. Suppose you created something say a robot. You programmed the robot to blink a light at all times .Now you come and tell the robot to stop the light without changing his programming. The robot will not obey you because you programmed robot to blink at all times. Now let me come to the point. Human beings behave the way god programmed them to behave .If they are doing something bad it is their programming which god has himself done. Then how can god say that you are doing something wrong. We as humans can say that you God have made us this way. Its not our fault. The concept of sin can not co- exist at the same time as the concept that God created humans. A lot of religions have forecasts of God about the future. This would mean that God knows what will happen in future. If God exactly knows what will happen in future then he must have programmed everything in this world. And if he has programmed everything in this world then how can he say that if you do this , it will be a sin. And also whatever religious beliefs one has depends on where he was born. If he was born in a christian family he will more likely be a christian. If he was born in jew family he will be jew . Human genetics also plays a lot of part in human decision making . Identical twins raised in different families are very similar in their attitudes and behaviour. Human being can not control what genes he will inherit . A human being has little control over the environment in which he will be raised also. The two determinants of human behaviour : genes, environment. This means that the concept of sin and good is not Gods creations but only a creation of the evil human mind to control the common man.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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4/21/2014 1:53:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
hi everyone
I used the word God in name only. Actually what i was trying to say that the world has a reason of existence or something before existence of humans This reason can be anything for example explosion, chemical reaction etc. Now let science discover whatever it is . I will use the word reason only if you think its superstition.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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neutral
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4/21/2014 10:20:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 1:14:50 AM, debateuser wrote:
@neutral


Increased brain size was beginning , then came tool use, language

development,simple morality and group living. Early religious beliefs were

derived from fear for example burying rituals to take care of loved

ones. Humans always wanted to please things they were afraid from. They

would call anything as God that they were afraid from or considered

superior. Pleasing others for personal gain is also seen in some other

animals. Organized religions in its earliest form can be seen in tribes

or groups with a leader. And yes these leaders used to call themselves

God or someone who God speaks through. Whatever the leader used to

believe the commoners had to believe. When people got more intelligent

they started considering these leaders as common as themselves. This is

when i think Leaders started using middlemen "Prophets". They took God out of the visual and started using Prophets , spiritual leaders through which God speaks so that they can ask them anything to do. The thing is that mans first attempts was to call himself God exposes his true intentions. Whatever these prophets were claiming , science exposes them. Here are a few references if you like :


http://www.disclose.tv...

Nonsense/84021

http://www.dailysquib.co.uk...

igious-books-are-man-made-nonsense.html

http://articles.latimes.com...-

20110718

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

http://en.wikipedia.org...

you have read my original topic in which i discussed how sin and good can not co-exist with God being the creator and making forecasts . Actually the concept of sin and good is what humans use to control others. For example a religious leader can say if you fight against other religions it will be a good deed in Gods eyes.

As far as religions benefits are concerned. Its disadvantages outweigh its advantages. Religion is the number one promoter of hatred. Wars being fought for example Crusades. Not only that religious leaders have always been against scientific progress. Many great scientist inventions could not come to the world because religious personalities considered anything which is not in their spiritual books to be creation of devil. Moreover religion is very intolerant towards homosexuals and women. The male superiority which is in many religions point toward it being man made rather than God made.

Atheism in its self is not a political concept. In fact everyone is born without a religion. Atheists can be in any political party. There are many atheists in European North american political parties as well. Atheism is far less controlling as compared to religions because you wont be hearing an atheist as saying that he believes in the worlds first atheist. Whereas you might be someone who is religious as as saying that he is a follower of a spiritual leader. Religion has a direct human control whereas atheism or any other irreligion does not have one.

Nothing in this entire post supports the claim you made, that Kings invented religion to control people - nor indeed does it address the reality that religion, as evidenced at the very least by fertility goddesses, etc. produced in archeological sites, pre-date civilization in some cases by thousands of years.

If religion pre-date kings, particularly in a political sense, than the claim that Kings invented it is wantonly false. It simply cannot, unless time travel was invented, be an accurate claim.

Have you invented time travel?

We then shift goal posts entirely - another atheistic claim tat science has falsified religion ... through angles this time. Only, in standard atheistic practice, the claims are wrong. There is no passage in the Bible that describes 'what angles are made of' in a biological sense. They often appear SHROUDED in light, but that hardly means they were created by light, or sustained by light.

And if angles were false, then why have Prophets been so singularly successful in history?

Next up is atheism: If atheism post dates the creation of religion, which was meant to control the masses ya see, and we now have an element rejecting this control ... you can bet your sweet rear end that there are political calculations afoot.

Indeed, Stalin and Moa are classic examples of the exploitation of atheism for political purposes, and China (lesser extent) and North Korea continue to advocate atheism as instrument of policy to ensure there are NO OTHER CENTERS OF POLITICAL CONTROL other than the state. Even spiritual ones. It is literally the elimination of religion that has created total state control and exploitation. Which goes back to your point.

What we have here is a classic case of simple propaganda - creative writing. It the normal castigation of the 'enemy' religion, and the extolling of the friend 'atheism'.

The support that justified the claims? Its simply not accurate - and educated people, who have actually studied religion can see the inaccuracies. And like the cult of modern atheism, it doesn't matter how many times you catch them in accuracies, they will just continue to ramble on into different territory, never bothering to acknowledge that their claims are inaccurate.
PureX
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4/21/2014 11:02:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Religions developed out of spiritualism, and spiritualism developed in humans in response to the experience of death.

When we would hunt and kill an animal, or witness the death of a human, would we see that at one moment there was a life-force present, and at the next, it would be gone. It was as if some kind of energy, or spirit, had left the body, and disappeared into the air all around them. So these early humans came to believe that unseen to them, in the air all around them, were the spirits of all those animals and humans who had died. And this was the birth of spiritualism.

As time passed, they began to believe that these spirits might help them, and or harm them, and so they decided they needed ways in which to coerce these spirits to their own advantage. And thus the 'shaman' came to about. Shamans were people who other people believed had the power to control and coerce those invisible spirits that were all around them, unseen. And the shaman was the precursor for politicians, priests, and scientists, alike. He or she was usually a little bit of all three.

In time, we humans came to specialize within our groups, because we found that doing so was more enjoyable and more efficient that having everyone learning and doing every task required for survival. Instead, each member of the group could specialize in doing one or a few tasks, and thus do them better because of it. And they trade their particular services with others, for theirs.

And so here we are. Scientists, priests, politicians, philosophers, artists, these are all task specialties that were once the purview of the shaman. And they each now have their share of the power.
debateuser
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4/22/2014 5:50:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@neutral

Some religions do say angels are made of light. Here is a reference to the typical features of angels :

http://angels.about.com...

In religions as a general it is claimed that angels are not made of matter. Now to produce a sound audible to human ear , have a memory and be able to speak to human beings , you need something made from matter. Also in religions it is claimed that angels emit light from within. The process is called Bioluminescence. For this process you also need a body made from matter because without chemical reaction Bioluminescence is hard to imagine. Moreover they are claiming that angels dont have the ability to decay and yet produces light.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It is claimed angels dont have bodies . Then how are they producing sounds that can be heard by the human ear.

Also angels have been seen by few individuals and not the general public. The idea sounds absurd because human beings have similar functioning eyes and ears. Also angels seem to disappear in some outer world nobody has seen. Even light which is the fastest known thing will take years to travel the whole outer space , then how can angels which actually emit light be travelling so quickly in and out of the physical world known to human.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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4/22/2014 9:44:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Organized religion traces its roots to the neolithic revolution that began 11,000 years . Before that period people used to have different fear . For example a person who fears dark, can create a dark God or may be a ghost in his mind. That is believing in something individually without a commanding figure like a prophet , priest etc. Such behaviour stems from fear and to please whatever they consider superior. Burying rituals and grave gods can be type of such behaviour. There is no evidence that God upto this point made contact with any human and the following reference explains why humans have such a behaviour

http://articles.latimes.com...

People nowadays dont even believe in such things because they have grown past it.

Then comes the period of organized religion (religions with a central authority who could also command and collect taxes.) This is period group living became common. Tribal chiefs and leaders at this point called themselves Gods because they knew it will strengthen their grip on their tribe. They could also sacrifice anybody if they wished. Man tried to call himself God indicates bad intention and hunger for power. The very beginning of organized religions is based on false claims.

read evolutionary origin of religion from below link:

http://en.wikipedia.org...

After the tribal chiefs called themselves Gods even Kings used this tactic for example Pharaoah called himself God. Joseph who claimed to be a Prophet agreed to work for him . Point to be noted that God did not forbid him to do so. One wonders why? Why do people in power get to do whatever they want and even Prophets have to work for them. Prophets have had a connection with rulers of their time.

In the bible the earth is described as flat. Clearly man at that time believed this to be true when in reality this has been proven wrong by science. This point is further explained in the link below:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...

Polygamy is allowed in many religions . Most of the time for men. Religion also allows more ranks for men. One wonders why is God so unfair to women?

Also homosexuality is forbidden in religions even though genetics plays a major role in homosexuality. If God does not like homosexuality then why does he make them in the first place. Seems like human hand is at play again.

Many religions allow child marriage. Science nowadays has proven that child marriage is the worst choice.

I have explained the concept of angels in my recent post and also shown how absurd it is.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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4/22/2014 10:13:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@neutral

I agree with you that man does find new ways to control others. The human mind is a busy one. But blaming all non-religious people for that is very unfair. You cant blame non-religious people just because some foreign dictators want authority. I do agree that sometimes the actions of others give non-religious people a bad name.

People can choose to be non-religious for a variety of reasons. Most of science PHDs stop believing in religion because they have an analytical thinking. Bill gates is an agnostic. Google founders are atheist. Some stop believing in religion because of their upbringing . Not believing in religion is a personal choice which others should at least understand if not respect.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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4/22/2014 10:47:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am listing scientific errors in the bible . Here is a link

http://rationalwiki.org...

Also i am listing failed biblical prophecies :

http://rationalwiki.org...
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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