Total Posts:126|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Jesus taught tribalism and exclusivity

perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 10:30:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Nope. The Good Samaritan parable; regularly interacted with those thought to be excluded from communion woth God.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 10:48:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 10:30:27 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Nope. The Good Samaritan parable; regularly interacted with those thought to be excluded from communion woth God.

they were excluded and were continued to be unless they believed, right?
you are aware one must believe to be included...that isn't being inclusive.

matthew 25:40 has 2 words that support my argument... "of mine"
if you consider matthew 10:14,15

at best your good samaritan argument only presents an inconsistent jesus as he demeans a canaanite woman for not being jewish...never in any of the gospels does he demean a believing jew.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
bulproof
Posts: 25,263
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 10:58:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Jesus taught tribalism and exclusivity

Of course.

All ancient religions taught that.

I have yet to find one in the 21st century that doesn't still.

Religion and their gods are TRIBAL by definition.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
PureX
Posts: 1,528
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 11:03:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
What you are calling tribalism is really just the enforcement of religious authoritarianism: "If you don't accept our absolute and divine authority, you are not one of 'us', and must be excluded, shunned, and even punished, if possible." And there are many Christians who believe and practice this kind of religious authoritarianism.

But not all Christians are religious, and not all religious Christians are authoritarians. I'm sorry that you've had such a damaging encounter with them. I really am. But I think it's unfair of you to then presume that all Christians are that way. It's like being attacked by a black man and then assuming that all black men want to attack you.
bulproof
Posts: 25,263
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 11:09:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 11:03:56 AM, PureX wrote:
What you are calling tribalism is really just the enforcement of religious authoritarianism: "If you don't accept our absolute and divine authority, you are not one of 'us', and must be excluded, shunned, and even punished, if possible." And there are many Christians who believe and practice this kind of religious authoritarianism.

But not all Christians are religious, and not all religious Christians are authoritarians. I'm sorry that you've had such a damaging encounter with them. I really am. But I think it's unfair of you to then presume that all Christians are that way. It's like being attacked by a black man and then assuming that all black men want to attack you.

It's not a matter of assuming anything at all. From the outside looking in, the american culture seems to be under siege from fundamentalist xtians and the political parties that support them. They seem to be hell bent on imposing their 3000yr old culture on everybody in the country.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 11:13:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 11:03:56 AM, PureX wrote:
What you are calling tribalism is really just the enforcement of religious authoritarianism: "If you don't accept our absolute and divine authority, you are not one of 'us', and must be excluded, shunned, and even punished, if possible." And there are many Christians who believe and practice this kind of religious authoritarianism.

But not all Christians are religious, and not all religious Christians are authoritarians. I'm sorry that you've had such a damaging encounter with them. I really am. But I think it's unfair of you to then presume that all Christians are that way. It's like being attacked by a black man and then assuming that all black men want to attack you.

the label christian is evidence of exclusivity ...we are all human beings, correct?
so what is the point in labeling oneself a christian?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 12:20:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 11:09:36 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2014 11:03:56 AM, PureX wrote:
But not all Christians are religious, and not all religious Christians are authoritarians. I'm sorry that you've had such a damaging encounter with them. I really am. But I think it's unfair of you to then presume that all Christians are that way. It's like being attacked by a black man and then assuming that all black men want to attack you.

It's not a matter of assuming anything at all. From the outside looking in, the american culture seems to be under siege from fundamentalist xtians and the political parties that support them. They seem to be hell bent on imposing their 3000yr old culture on everybody in the country.

If one were to get their view of reality from the news, from the outside looking in so to speak, it might appear that we are under siege by violent gun-toting black men. But because this biased notion has been challenged often enough, and in the same medium that present them in this way, most of us understand that reality is not what it looks like "from the outside".

There are hundreds of millions of religious Christians in the world, none of which are trying to force you to do or believe anything. There are many millions of non-religious Christians who would resist such force were it to occur. I think you are looking at only a small fraction of politicized, authoritarian extremist Christians who the news media gives much attention to because it brings them viewers.

I don't want to minimize them, or minimize the horrible damage they do, and will do if they are further empowered. But I don't want us to lose perspective, here, either. Especially not in favor of an over-reactive bias. That's not going to help anyone.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 12:25:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 11:13:21 AM, perplexed wrote:

the label christian is evidence of exclusivity ...we are all human beings, correct?
so what is the point in labeling oneself a christian?

The label refers to a whole range of theological propositions, many of which contradict each other. Yet it does not include everyone. It's like referring to one's self as being part of a specific ethnicity or nationality. It sets you apart from all humans, but it still includes a lot of diversity.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 12:27:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 10:48:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/20/2014 10:30:27 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Nope. The Good Samaritan parable; regularly interacted with those thought to be excluded from communion woth God.


they were excluded and were continued to be unless they believed, right?
you are aware one must believe to be included...that isn't being inclusive.

matthew 25:40 has 2 words that support my argument... "of mine"
if you consider matthew 10:14,15

at best your good samaritan argument only presents an inconsistent jesus as he demeans a canaanite woman for not being jewish...never in any of the gospels does he demean a believing jew.

What? Pretty much all of Jesus' condemning words were for Jews, not gentiles.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Romanii
Posts: 4,852
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 12:40:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 10:58:12 AM, bulproof wrote:
Jesus taught tribalism and exclusivity

Of course.

All ancient religions taught that.

I have yet to find one in the 21st century that doesn't still.

coughcoughSikhismcough.


Religion and their gods are TRIBAL by definition.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/20/2014 2:31:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 10:30:27 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Nope. The Good Samaritan parable; regularly interacted with those thought to be excluded from communion woth God.

I'm not so sure that that tale was supposed to make society more inclusive... https://www.youtube.com....
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2014 12:00:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 12:27:58 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/20/2014 10:48:23 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/20/2014 10:30:27 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Nope. The Good Samaritan parable; regularly interacted with those thought to be excluded from communion woth God.


they were excluded and were continued to be unless they believed, right?
you are aware one must believe to be included...that isn't being inclusive.

matthew 25:40 has 2 words that support my argument... "of mine"
if you consider matthew 10:14,15

at best your good samaritan argument only presents an inconsistent jesus as he demeans a canaanite woman for not being jewish...never in any of the gospels does he demean a believing jew.

What? Pretty much all of Jesus' condemning words were for Jews, not gentiles.

he condemned unbelieving jews..right?
he never demeaned or condemned a believing jew...
and the condition of belief in and of itself pretty much says jesus was tribalistic and only accepted those who believed, right?

i don't understand what your argument is...
read the opening post, if you hadn't..cause it seems that you didn't
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2014 2:22:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 12:20:58 PM, PureX wrote:


There are hundreds of millions of religious Christians in the world, none of which are trying to force you to do or believe anything.
hmmmm.
anti condoms, anti birth control, killing or jailing gays in uganda...perpetuating poverty in calcutta,
i think you made quite an overstatement...

I don't want to minimize them, or minimize the horrible damage they do,
ahem...you did.

and will do if they are further empowered. But I don't want us to lose perspective, here, either. Especially not in favor of an over-reactive bias. That's not going to help anyone.

the appeal to gullibility is atrocious and hurts everyone.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2014 8:25:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"
First I want to say that as a christian I do not think I am any better than the next person.

1. What is so great about that?
The greatness lies not in what in what I have done but what God did for me.

2. How is this method extraordinary?
It is only extraordinary in that Christ saved us.


3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?
I do not think the world is shrinking. On the contary it is growing so much we are becoming more and more diverse. Which is a good thing.

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?
No, Jesus told us to go out into all the world and spread the gospel. We are not to stay in our own little christian bubble. That is not what Jesus did at all. He hung out with the despised of his nation.

5. was jesus just typical?
I am not sure what you mean by typical.
https://docs.google.com...
Lead Enforcer of the DDO Revolutionary Party
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2014 8:43:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 8:25:35 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"
First I want to say that as a christian I do not think I am any better than the next person.
when you say "as a Christian" what does that mean?

1. What is so great about that?
The greatness lies not in what in what I have done but what God did for me.
not the question i asked...what is so great about the tribalism and elitism jesus taught?

2. How is this method extraordinary?
It is only extraordinary in that Christ saved us.
again, nothing to do with the question....
how is teaching tribalism and elitism extraordinary?


3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?
I do not think the world is shrinking. On the contary it is growing so much we are becoming more and more diverse. Which is a good thing.
by ever shrinking world i meant we are more interconnected with the internet and being able to fly to different countries...and there is more of a mixture of people from different cultures than ever before..
so, having said that, does the method of teaching tribalism perpetuate more problems in the interconnected world we live in?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?
No, Jesus told us to go out into all the world and spread the gospel.
and, that is promoting the christian tribe, yes?

We are not to stay in our own little christian bubble. That is not what Jesus did at all. He hung out with the despised of his nation.
why am i despised?

5. was jesus just typical?
I am not sure what you mean by typical.
was jesus a typical tribalistic elitist?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2014 9:33:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 8:43:08 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/21/2014 8:25:35 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"
First I want to say that as a christian I do not think I am any better than the next person.
when you say "as a Christian" what does that mean?
It means that I have accepted the lord.

1. What is so great about that?
The greatness lies not in what in what I have done but what God did for me.
not the question i asked...what is so great about the tribalism and elitism jesus taught?
He did not teach tribalism and elitism.

2. How is this method extraordinary?
It is only extraordinary in that Christ saved us.
again, nothing to do with the question....
how is teaching tribalism and elitism extraordinary?
He did not teach tribalism and elitism.


3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?
I do not think the world is shrinking. On the contary it is growing so much we are becoming more and more diverse. Which is a good thing.
by ever shrinking world i meant we are more interconnected with the internet and being able to fly to different countries...and there is more of a mixture of people from different cultures than ever before..
so, having said that, does the method of teaching tribalism perpetuate more problems in the interconnected world we live in?
It would if that is what Jesus had taught.

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?
No, Jesus told us to go out into all the world and spread the gospel.
and, that is promoting the christian tribe, yes?
No, all we are supposed to do is tell them that God sent his Son Jesus. Jesus came and died and rose from the dead. Now we have a way to God. After that it is between them and God. It would be promoting if it was to try and persuade. It is more to present rather than persuade.

We are not to stay in our own little christian bubble. That is not what Jesus did at all. He hung out with the despised of his nation.
why am i despised?
Did I say you were depised? You are not despised. At least not by me. What that means is that Jesus hung out with those who knew they were not righteous.

5. was jesus just typical?
I am not sure what you mean by typical.
was jesus a typical tribalistic elitist?
No. You have yet to show an instance where jesus specifically taught tribalism and elitism.
https://docs.google.com...
Lead Enforcer of the DDO Revolutionary Party
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/21/2014 10:11:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/21/2014 9:33:04 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 4/21/2014 8:43:08 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/21/2014 8:25:35 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"
First I want to say that as a christian I do not think I am any better than the next person.
when you say "as a Christian" what does that mean?
It means that I have accepted the lord.
and why is that significant?

1. What is so great about that?
The greatness lies not in what in what I have done but what God did for me.
not the question i asked...what is so great about the tribalism and elitism jesus taught?
He did not teach tribalism and elitism.
yes he did...belief is the condition to be accepted into his tribe, is it not?
did you read matthew 25:40? what do you suppose he meant with "of mine" if you take matthew 10:14, and 15 into consideration...did you even read the original post or did you just read the title and answered it?

2. How is this method extraordinary?
It is only extraordinary in that Christ saved us.
again, nothing to do with the question....
how is teaching tribalism and elitism extraordinary?
He did not teach tribalism and elitism.
yes he did...belief is the condition to be accepted into his tribe, is it not?
did you read matthew 25:40? what do you suppose he meant with "of mine" if you take matthew 10:14, and 15 into consideration...did you even read the original post or did you just read the title and answered it?



3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?
I do not think the world is shrinking. On the contary it is growing so much we are becoming more and more diverse. Which is a good thing.
by ever shrinking world i meant we are more interconnected with the internet and being able to fly to different countries...and there is more of a mixture of people from different cultures than ever before..
so, having said that, does the method of teaching tribalism perpetuate more problems in the interconnected world we live in?
It would if that is what Jesus had taught.
yes he did...belief is the condition to be accepted into his tribe, is it not?
did you read matthew 25:40? what do you suppose he meant with "of mine" if you take matthew 10:14, and 15 into consideration...did you even read the original post or did you just read the title and answered it?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?
No, Jesus told us to go out into all the world and spread the gospel.
and, that is promoting the christian tribe, yes?
No, all we are supposed to do is tell them that God sent his Son Jesus. Jesus came and died and rose from the dead. Now we have a way to God. After that it is between them and God. It would be promoting if it was to try and persuade. It is more to present rather than persuade.
how is this this an inclusive belief system?

We are not to stay in our own little christian bubble. That is not what Jesus did at all. He hung out with the despised of his nation.
why am i despised?
Did I say you were depised?
yes you did...
You are not despised.
yes i am read the parable of the 10 minas...or 2 cor 5 and pay close attention to verse 16 "16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view"
how about 2 cor 6:14 "14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"
who is wicked and of the dark...the person who isn't a part of the believing tribe.

At least not by me. What that means is that Jesus hung out with those who knew they were not righteous.
what makes them not righteous?

5. was jesus just typical?
I am not sure what you mean by typical.
was jesus a typical tribalistic elitist?
No. You have yet to show an instance where jesus specifically taught tribalism and elitism.
you didn't read the opening post did you...typical
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
Keltron
Posts: 161
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 1:50:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

Well, Jesus was a Jew, and the Jesus story was written around Jewish themes. There is hardly another group of people more tribal and elitist than Jews. The success of Christianity, though, lies in its cosmopolitan appeal, and ability to assimilate cultural diversity. Christianity is essentially a pagan religion with Jewish overtones. Imperial Christianity was, I'm sure, not what Jesus had in mind.
Keltron
Posts: 161
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 2:10:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 11:09:36 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/20/2014 11:03:56 AM, PureX wrote:
What you are calling tribalism is really just the enforcement of religious authoritarianism: "If you don't accept our absolute and divine authority, you are not one of 'us', and must be excluded, shunned, and even punished, if possible." And there are many Christians who believe and practice this kind of religious authoritarianism.

But not all Christians are religious, and not all religious Christians are authoritarians. I'm sorry that you've had such a damaging encounter with them. I really am. But I think it's unfair of you to then presume that all Christians are that way. It's like being attacked by a black man and then assuming that all black men want to attack you.

It's not a matter of assuming anything at all. From the outside looking in, the american culture seems to be under siege from fundamentalist xtians and the political parties that support them. They seem to be hell bent on imposing their 3000yr old culture on everybody in the country.

Christianity in America is seeing its traditional cultural hegemony eroded at an ever increasing pace. As the old people die off taking their old attitudes and ways with them, religion in general becomes less and less relevant. The diehard's instinctively feel their power slipping away, and it freaks them out. Mainstream Christianity is becoming a liberal, milquetoast shadow of its former self, and and conservative Christianity is shrinking back to the Bible belt from whence it was spawned.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 4:16:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

As an individual (only yourself), do you feel excluded from God (the Christian God)? If so can you explain why that would be? I don't care about religious doctrine, I just wanted to know what you personally feel, thanks...
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:00:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 1:50:12 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

Well, Jesus was a Jew, and the Jesus story was written around Jewish themes. There is hardly another group of people more tribal and elitist than Jews. The success of Christianity, though, lies in its cosmopolitan appeal, and ability to assimilate cultural diversity. Christianity is essentially a pagan religion with Jewish overtones. Imperial Christianity was, I'm sure, not what Jesus had in mind.

i don't think anyone knows what jesus had in mind.
additionally, the success of christianity was what i said, "those who believe belong in the tribe of believers" and the rest were not even regarded. which is actually worse than the way jews treated others because the idea of hell came from the christian tradition.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:04:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 4:16:11 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

As an individual (only yourself), do you feel excluded from God (the Christian God)?
yes.
If so can you explain why that would be? I don't care about religious doctrine, I just wanted to know what you personally feel, thanks...
because i can't lie to myself and pretend to understand something that has been used to justify the marginalization of other human beings.

: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:07:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?


The end result will be perfect peace on the earth with no-one disrupting thigns for others, precisely as God wanted in the beginning.

2. How is this method extraordinary?


The method isn't extraordinary since Satan has copied it for his own ends many times.

However in the case of the world God and Christ are working to establish it will be for the eternal benefit of all who accept it.

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?


Only because Satan stirs up opposition to God's plan, when true Christians are left to their own devices there is perfect peace amongst them and they pick no fights with anyone.

For instance they will never go to war against any otehr human whatever the provocation., since being no part of this world they refuse to take sides with it.

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

Jesus was far from short sighted, though admittedly he was only as long sighted as his fatehr allowed him to be.. However he predicted exactly how things would be 2,000 years later, so he couldn't have been that short sighted (Luke 17:22-30).

In fact you are part of the proof of his foresight.


5. was jesus just typical?

Typical of what?

Typical of a faithful servant of his father, yes, because all such are commanded to imitate him so as to be like him and his father.

Certainly far from typical human though.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:22:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:04:02 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 4:16:11 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

As an individual (only yourself), do you feel excluded from God (the Christian God)?
yes.
If so can you explain why that would be? I don't care about religious doctrine, I just wanted to know what you personally feel, thanks...
because i can't lie to myself and pretend to understand something that has been used to justify the marginalization of other human beings.


What do you think the reason of God would be to "marginalize" Himself from another? In this case the way in which you refer. Could you give me an example, not from people but of God...
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:22:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:07:42 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?


The end result will be perfect peace on the earth with no-one disrupting thigns for others, precisely as God wanted in the beginning.
and how does that do anything for the here and now? your wishful thinking
cannot apply to me you know.


2. How is this method extraordinary?


The method isn't extraordinary
tell me about it

However in the case of the world God and Christ are working to establish it will be for the eternal benefit of all who accept it.
again, YOUR wishful thinking cannot apply to me

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?


Only because Satan stirs up opposition to God's plan, when true Christians are left to their own devices there is perfect peace amongst them and they pick no fights with anyone.

For instance they will never go to war against any otehr human whatever the provocation., since being no part of this world they refuse to take sides with it.
mumbo jumbo rhetoric that cannot be proven
so yes this method does perpetuate more problems

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

Jesus was far from short sighted, though admittedly he was only as long sighted as his fatehr allowed him to be.. However he predicted exactly how things would be 2,000 years later, so he couldn't have been that short sighted (Luke 17:22-30).

so yes jesus was shortsighted as the FACT remains 2,000 yrs later there are over 30,000 different interpretations of him.

In fact you are part of the proof of his foresight.
wow...you think highly of me.


5. was jesus just typical?

Typical of what?
a typical tribalistic elitist
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:27:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:22:23 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:04:02 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 4:16:11 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

As an individual (only yourself), do you feel excluded from God (the Christian God)?
yes.
If so can you explain why that would be? I don't care about religious doctrine, I just wanted to know what you personally feel, thanks...
because i can't lie to myself and pretend to understand something that has been used to justify the marginalization of other human beings.


What do you think the reason of God would be to "marginalize" Himself from another? In this case the way in which you refer. Could you give me an example, not from people but of God...

i said no such thing....jesus marginalized those who did not believe in his claims.
the parable of the 10 minas in luke
all of matthew 10
the conversation he had with the canaanite woman in matthew 15
the words "of mine" in matthew 25:40
john 3:16-18

then we have the letters from paul...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:41:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:27:24 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:22:23 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:04:02 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 4:16:11 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

As an individual (only yourself), do you feel excluded from God (the Christian God)?
yes.
If so can you explain why that would be? I don't care about religious doctrine, I just wanted to know what you personally feel, thanks...
because i can't lie to myself and pretend to understand something that has been used to justify the marginalization of other human beings.


What do you think the reason of God would be to "marginalize" Himself from another? In this case the way in which you refer. Could you give me an example, not from people but of God...

i said no such thing....jesus marginalized those who did not believe in his claims.
the parable of the 10 minas in luke
all of matthew 10
the conversation he had with the canaanite woman in matthew 15
the words "of mine" in matthew 25:40
john 3:16-18

then we have the letters from paul...

Actually it was Satan who marginalized everybody, by separating us from God. Jesus merely tried to draw as many as he could back.

I agree, with the thought that true Christianity separates us from the world, but then who wants to be under Satan's influence anyway, and all but true Christians are, because only true Christians have petitioned God for the protection we need so we are not under that pernicious influence.

As Jesus said, ask and you will receive., but you have to ask in sincerity, not out of fear (James 1:5-8).

There are really only two sides in all of this, God's and Satan's. If you aren't on God's side you are on Satan's by default because you are proving Satan right in your case.

The letters of Paul teach nothing that Jesus did not. His teachings are 100% in harmony with those of Christ and the Apostles. Any who say they aren't don't know the teachings of either properly.
perplexed
Posts: 863
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 7:44:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:41:26 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:27:24 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:22:23 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:04:02 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 4:16:11 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

As an individual (only yourself), do you feel excluded from God (the Christian God)?
yes.
If so can you explain why that would be? I don't care about religious doctrine, I just wanted to know what you personally feel, thanks...
because i can't lie to myself and pretend to understand something that has been used to justify the marginalization of other human beings.


What do you think the reason of God would be to "marginalize" Himself from another? In this case the way in which you refer. Could you give me an example, not from people but of God...

i said no such thing....jesus marginalized those who did not believe in his claims.
the parable of the 10 minas in luke
all of matthew 10
the conversation he had with the canaanite woman in matthew 15
the words "of mine" in matthew 25:40
john 3:16-18

then we have the letters from paul...

Actually it was Satan

nuff said...you are dismissed.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/22/2014 8:01:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/22/2014 7:27:24 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:22:23 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/22/2014 7:04:02 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/22/2014 4:16:11 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/20/2014 9:36:04 AM, perplexed wrote:
those who believe belong in the tribe of believers...this is pretty obvious. this club of believers thinks of themselves as righteous and sanctified from the wicked and evil world of unbelievers who are of the dark being that "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood" (gen 8;21)
believers accept being washed clean with the blood of the lamb because they believe they ought to. but that in and of it self has proven to be very problematic...being that there are 30,000 interpretations all under the umbrella called "christianity"

1. What is so great about that?

2. How is this method extraordinary?

3. Doesn't this method perpetuate more problems in a ever shrinking world?

4. Did Jesus in his shortsightedness not consider that 2,000 yrs later people will be
struggling with diversity and equality for endorsing elitist tribalistic ideology from a time where tribalism and elitism ruled the day?

5. was jesus just typical?

As an individual (only yourself), do you feel excluded from God (the Christian God)?
yes.
If so can you explain why that would be? I don't care about religious doctrine, I just wanted to know what you personally feel, thanks...
because i can't lie to myself and pretend to understand something that has been used to justify the marginalization of other human beings.


What do you think the reason of God would be to "marginalize" Himself from another? In this case the way in which you refer. Could you give me an example, not from people but of God...

i said no such thing....jesus marginalized those who did not believe in his claims.
the parable of the 10 minas in luke
all of matthew 10
the conversation he had with the canaanite woman in matthew 15
the words "of mine" in matthew 25:40
john 3:16-18

then we have the letters from paul...

I understand what your saying but I wanted to know why you personally felt excluded from God as you said above?

My other question is why do you think Jesus said those things? The point of clarifying the separation or exclusion from God is to get us to come into what God desires, and what God desires may be different than what we desire. If you don't want what God desires then there is no need to come into that place, but I really wanted to know what is it that is offending you about exclusivity and how that affects your relationship with God as an individual.