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Calling on perplexed to discuss religion

Iredia
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4/25/2014 10:30:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The aim of this thread is simply to allow me ask perplexed about her views in religion in general. For balance, she can in return ask for my views but I want to make this thread about her. Please guys try not to derail the thread. Trolls keep off >:( My first question is the most important. You seem to be anti-Christian gong by the tone of your threads, why ?
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Iredia
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4/25/2014 11:33:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone. She's just angry with Christians because she likes to drink from the furry cup.

But she can and she does especially when it means getting her points accross which is all this thread is about. Space to air her views as I ask her questions on Christianity in particular. I also hope to get her views on Eastern religions, who knows whether she may be sympathetic to those.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
SNP1
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4/25/2014 12:21:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone.

Does anyone else see the irony in this?
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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popculturepooka
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4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
neutral
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4/25/2014 12:55:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Is that what Dawkins and Hitchens are? Former fundamentalists?

So the inability to be reasonable about Christianity is, 8 out of 10 times, actually caused by fundamentalists ... because there is no way that someone leaving a fundamental church would ever realize that there are more moderate churches? Would be incapable 8 in 10 times, of discerning moderation and how excess can spoil even the very best things?
Installgentoo
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4/25/2014 1:13:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 12:21:43 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone.

Does anyone else see the irony in this?

I don't think they do, but I do see irony in a person who doesn't understand basic philosophical concepts setting themselves up as the arbiter of rationality.
SNP1
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4/25/2014 1:17:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 1:13:56 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:21:43 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone.

Does anyone else see the irony in this?

I don't think they do, but I do see irony in a person who doesn't understand basic philosophical concepts setting themselves up as the arbiter of rationality.

I never claimed to be the arbiter of rationality. I just see people being irrational based off of the common view of rationality, and I make my opinion known. That does not make my opinion fact, but that does not mean my opinion is wrong.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO
Installgentoo
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4/25/2014 1:33:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 1:17:43 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 4/25/2014 1:13:56 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:21:43 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone.

Does anyone else see the irony in this?

I don't think they do, but I do see irony in a person who doesn't understand basic philosophical concepts setting themselves up as the arbiter of rationality.

I never claimed to be the arbiter of rationality. I just see people being irrational based off of the common view of rationality, and I make my opinion known. That does not make my opinion fact, but that does not mean my opinion is wrong.

Sure, but what does make your opinion on rationality wrong is the fact you don't know what basic logical fallacies are. It kinda suggests you're a 14 year old who's just read the god delusion.
SNP1
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4/25/2014 1:36:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 1:33:53 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/25/2014 1:17:43 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 4/25/2014 1:13:56 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:21:43 PM, SNP1 wrote:
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone.

Does anyone else see the irony in this?

I don't think they do, but I do see irony in a person who doesn't understand basic philosophical concepts setting themselves up as the arbiter of rationality.

I never claimed to be the arbiter of rationality. I just see people being irrational based off of the common view of rationality, and I make my opinion known. That does not make my opinion fact, but that does not mean my opinion is wrong.

Sure, but what does make your opinion on rationality wrong is the fact you don't know what basic logical fallacies are. It kinda suggests you're a 14 year old who's just read the god delusion.

I actually have only gotten about half-way through the God Delusion, there are many books better than that out there. Also, funny how you talk about logical fallacies and then use an ad hominem. I also do know basic logical fallacies, i have taken a couple classes on logic.
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perplexed
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4/25/2014 1:46:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 10:30:30 AM, Iredia wrote:
The aim of this thread is simply to allow me ask perplexed about her views in religion in general. For balance, she can in return ask for my views but I want to make this thread about her. Please guys try not to derail the thread. Trolls keep off >:( My first question is the most important. You seem to be anti-Christian gong by the tone of your threads, why ?

hello Iredia,
I will be happy to answer that question.

one of the reasons i am anti christian is because of the idea of being "saved".
being saved, to me, implies there is something fundamentally wrong with the believer/person...the dogma christianity promotes is the idea that anything we do, if it were not done for the lord, is meaningless...as the bible teaches "all our righteous acts
are as filthy rags" or "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood"
which is a flat out lie.
psychology 101 teaches that if you tell a child they are not worthy or deserving of respect they will act out that way...however if you build a child's self esteem by teaching them how to find their inner strengths, they will act out in a respectable way.
so if we are able to be good to one another without the help of religion, since most are born with the ability to empathize and rationalize while this religion is guilty of hurting people, i don't see the need for religion nor the reason to treat religious beliefs as anything more than an opinion.
another thing is that the believers tend to conflate their identity with their belief and because of this they take any challenges to their belief as a personal attack...when it's just the ideology that is being challenged....which makes a discussion, in most cases, very difficult.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
Iredia
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4/25/2014 6:13:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 1:46:34 PM, perplexed wrote:


hello Iredia,
I will be happy to answer that question.

one of the reasons i am anti christian is because of the idea of being "saved".
being saved, to me, implies there is something fundamentally wrong with the believer/person...the dogma christianity promotes is the idea that anything we do, if it were not done for the lord, is meaningless...as the bible teaches "all our righteous acts
are as filthy rags" or "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood"
which is a flat out lie.
psychology 101 teaches that if you tell a child they are not worthy or deserving of respect they will act out that way...however if you build a child's self esteem by teaching them how to find their inner strengths, they will act out in a respectable way.
so if we are able to be good to one another without the help of religion, since most are born with the ability to empathize and rationalize while this religion is guilty of hurting people, i don't see the need for religion nor the reason to treat religious beliefs as anything more than an opinion.
another thing is that the believers tend to conflate their identity with their belief and because of this they take any challenges to their belief as a personal attack...when it's just the ideology that is being challenged....which makes a discussion, in most cases, very difficult.

Okay. Before I ask you questions on your comment here I would like to know if you think there could be a common ground between your views and that of Christians and whether you think there are aspects of Christianity that could be salvaged (ie worthy of adopting).
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
perplexed
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4/25/2014 7:57:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 6:13:52 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 4/25/2014 1:46:34 PM, perplexed wrote:


hello Iredia,
I will be happy to answer that question.

one of the reasons i am anti christian is because of the idea of being "saved".
being saved, to me, implies there is something fundamentally wrong with the believer/person...the dogma christianity promotes is the idea that anything we do, if it were not done for the lord, is meaningless...as the bible teaches "all our righteous acts
are as filthy rags" or "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood"
which is a flat out lie.
psychology 101 teaches that if you tell a child they are not worthy or deserving of respect they will act out that way...however if you build a child's self esteem by teaching them how to find their inner strengths, they will act out in a respectable way.
so if we are able to be good to one another without the help of religion, since most are born with the ability to empathize and rationalize while this religion is guilty of hurting people, i don't see the need for religion nor the reason to treat religious beliefs as anything more than an opinion.
another thing is that the believers tend to conflate their identity with their belief and because of this they take any challenges to their belief as a personal attack...when it's just the ideology that is being challenged....which makes a discussion, in most cases, very difficult.

Okay. Before I ask you questions on your comment here I would like to know if you think there could be a common ground between your views and that of Christians and whether you think there are aspects of Christianity that could be salvaged (ie worthy of adopting).

from my perspective, any ideology that would demean a human being for be a human being is unsalvageable as the term "saved" suggests.
there is nothing exceptionally good that christianity can offer as the capacity to be empathetic already has given people capacity to be good, an innate ability we all have (except for those who are born without that ability and they are usually referred as people who have an anti social disorder).

additionally i see nothing a believer in christ can do that a non believer can't.
both are able to love, care, hurt, get sick, die, help those in need, be angry, be impatient, forgive, be honest, be decent people who want to be the best they can be.

the label christian can be used as an excuse for many things, which comes natural to people who have the capacity to be empathetic, therefore it is meaningless in that aspect. the another reason is the justification to control other people's lives..so i really see no redeeming qualities in christianity.

the sense of peace is also something a christian cannot claim exclusive rights to.
nor is there a way a believer can measure their sense of peace to anyone else, as that would only display insecurity as the need to compare oneself to others to make themselves feel better is an obvious form of insecurity and christianity is rife with claims like that.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
Iredia
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4/25/2014 8:10:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What of Eastern religions ? What's your take on them ?
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
perplexed
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4/25/2014 8:20:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 8:10:05 PM, Iredia wrote:
What of Eastern religions ? What's your take on them ?

which ones did you have in mind?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
Idealist
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4/25/2014 8:40:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone. She's just angry with Christians because she likes to drink from the furry cup.

I don't think this is really fair. She is extremely stubborn, yes, and even angry, but I don't think she's driven by fury.
Illegalcombatant
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4/25/2014 8:43:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Did you know 89% of statistics are just made up ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
popculturepooka
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4/25/2014 9:17:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 8:43:32 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Did you know 89% of statistics are just made up ?

Yup.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Illegalcombatant
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4/25/2014 9:21:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 9:17:51 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/25/2014 8:43:32 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Did you know 89% of statistics are just made up ?

Yup.

Did you know that 77% of the time I just make up what percentage of statistics are made up ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Lordgrae
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4/25/2014 10:18:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 12:55:42 PM, neutral wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Is that what Dawkins and Hitchens are? Former fundamentalists?

Not sure about Hitchens, but Dawkins has said that his family was religious, but never took it that seriously.

So the inability to be reasonable about Christianity is, 8 out of 10 times, actually caused by fundamentalists ... because there is no way that someone leaving a fundamental church would ever realize that there are more moderate churches? Would be incapable 8 in 10 times, of discerning moderation and how excess can spoil even the very best things?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
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Lordgrae
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4/25/2014 10:19:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 9:21:17 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/25/2014 9:17:51 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/25/2014 8:43:32 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Did you know 89% of statistics are just made up ?

Yup.

Did you know that 77% of the time I just make up what percentage of statistics are made up ?

Did you know that 102% of people don't care enough to research statistics or care what their made up statistics say, and don't care about other people's statistics?
Birth Name: Graesil s'h'u Aln s'de Alanai'u s'se Saeron
Name: Grae
Titles: Lord, x'Sor Linniae (the false king), Elven War Chief, Heir to Aln
Class: Melee Archer/ Orator
Main Stats: Charisma, Dexterity
Weilds: Bladebow, Elven Slim Sword
Skills: Oration, Double Shot, Backstab, Snatch, Overwhelm Mind, Dominate, Parley, Restorative Sleep
Personal History: Born as the second of triplets, he was wed at an early age to a Dryad. He escaped several times, and on the last was captured and enslaved
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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4/26/2014 1:02:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 8:20:45 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/25/2014 8:10:05 PM, Iredia wrote:
What of Eastern religions ? What's your take on them ?

which ones did you have in mind?

Zenn Buddism, Taoism and Confusianism.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
leet4A1
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4/26/2014 1:20:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 7:57:02 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/25/2014 6:13:52 PM, Iredia wrote:
At 4/25/2014 1:46:34 PM, perplexed wrote:


hello Iredia,
I will be happy to answer that question.

one of the reasons i am anti christian is because of the idea of being "saved".
being saved, to me, implies there is something fundamentally wrong with the believer/person...the dogma christianity promotes is the idea that anything we do, if it were not done for the lord, is meaningless...as the bible teaches "all our righteous acts
are as filthy rags" or "every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood"
which is a flat out lie.
psychology 101 teaches that if you tell a child they are not worthy or deserving of respect they will act out that way...however if you build a child's self esteem by teaching them how to find their inner strengths, they will act out in a respectable way.
so if we are able to be good to one another without the help of religion, since most are born with the ability to empathize and rationalize while this religion is guilty of hurting people, i don't see the need for religion nor the reason to treat religious beliefs as anything more than an opinion.
another thing is that the believers tend to conflate their identity with their belief and because of this they take any challenges to their belief as a personal attack...when it's just the ideology that is being challenged....which makes a discussion, in most cases, very difficult.

Okay. Before I ask you questions on your comment here I would like to know if you think there could be a common ground between your views and that of Christians and whether you think there are aspects of Christianity that could be salvaged (ie worthy of adopting).

from my perspective, any ideology that would demean a human being for be a human being is unsalvageable as the term "saved" suggests.
there is nothing exceptionally good that christianity can offer as the capacity to be empathetic already has given people capacity to be good, an innate ability we all have (except for those who are born without that ability and they are usually referred as people who have an anti social disorder).

additionally i see nothing a believer in christ can do that a non believer can't.
both are able to love, care, hurt, get sick, die, help those in need, be angry, be impatient, forgive, be honest, be decent people who want to be the best they can be.

the label christian can be used as an excuse for many things, which comes natural to people who have the capacity to be empathetic, therefore it is meaningless in that aspect. the another reason is the justification to control other people's lives..so i really see no redeeming qualities in christianity.

the sense of peace is also something a christian cannot claim exclusive rights to.
nor is there a way a believer can measure their sense of peace to anyone else, as that would only display insecurity as the need to compare oneself to others to make themselves feel better is an obvious form of insecurity and christianity is rife with claims like that.

I know your keyboard has a Shift key because you use quotation marks. You're not fooling me!
"Let me tell you the truth. The truth is, 'what is'. And 'what should be' is a fantasy, a terrible terrible lie that someone gave to the people long ago. The 'what should be' never did exist, but people keep trying to live up to it. There is no 'what should be,' there is only what is." - Lenny Bruce

"Satan goes to church, did you know that?" - Godsands

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neutral
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4/26/2014 2:54:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 10:18:25 PM, Lordgrae wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:55:42 PM, neutral wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Is that what Dawkins and Hitchens are? Former fundamentalists?

Not sure about Hitchens, but Dawkins has said that his family was religious, but never took it that seriously.

So the inability to be reasonable about Christianity is, 8 out of 10 times, actually caused by fundamentalists ... because there is no way that someone leaving a fundamental church would ever realize that there are more moderate churches? Would be incapable 8 in 10 times, of discerning moderation and how excess can spoil even the very best things?

So, not fundamentalists ... have not checked to make sure.

Your statistic is a guess then?
annanicole
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4/26/2014 6:36:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 8:40:59 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone. She's just angry with Christians because she likes to drink from the furry cup.

I don't think this is really fair. She is extremely stubborn, yes, and even angry, but I don't think she's driven by fury.

I dunno what drives her, but she has ignorance sitting in the passenger cheat. Only rarely on here have I run across someone so abysmally ignorant of what the Bible teaches who translates his/her own ignorance into a reason for rejecting God. And the thing is: she's bound to know it.

I'm a staunch theist, but I do recognize that intelligent atheists make some good points. When they do so, here's how they do not do it: cite a passage totally out of context, assign an absurd interpretation to it, then exclaim, "See how dumb the Bible sounds!"
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
andymcstab
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4/26/2014 8:02:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
You have more chance of putting man on the moon with a rocket made in your back yard, than getting perplexed to rationally discuss religion.
Iredia
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4/26/2014 8:10:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Lol. No need to get worked up. Andymcstab and annanicole give perplexed a chance. So far, so good. No punches below the belt.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
perplexed
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4/26/2014 9:09:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 1:02:05 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 4/25/2014 8:20:45 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/25/2014 8:10:05 PM, Iredia wrote:
What of Eastern religions ? What's your take on them ?

which ones did you have in mind?

Zenn Buddism, Taoism and Confusianism.

from what i know there are no rules to avoid punishment or seek reward from a deity/god within these philosophies...no dogma. so the person makes it what it is for themselves
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
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4/26/2014 9:39:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 6:36:19 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/25/2014 8:40:59 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/25/2014 11:18:11 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
Perplexed doesn't want to discuss anything rationally with anyone. She's just angry with Christians because she likes to drink from the furry cup.

I don't think this is really fair. She is extremely stubborn, yes, and even angry, but I don't think she's driven by fury.

I dunno what drives her, but she has ignorance sitting in the passenger cheat. Only rarely on here have I run across someone so abysmally ignorant of what the Bible teaches who translates his/her own ignorance into a reason for rejecting God. And the thing is: she's bound to know it.

I'm a staunch theist, but I do recognize that intelligent atheists make some good points. When they do so, here's how they do not do it: cite a passage totally out of context, assign an absurd interpretation to it, then exclaim, "See how dumb the Bible sounds!"

what i think is problematic is to apply an antiquated dogmatic tradition conjured up by ignorance to todays world.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
Iredia
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4/26/2014 10:28:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 9:09:45 AM, perplexed wrote:


from what i know there are no rules to avoid punishment or seek reward from a deity/god within these philosophies...no dogma. so the person makes it what it is for themselves

Okay then. You have made it known you were initaially a theist even sufying theology or something related. There had to have been something which made you reevaluate the premises of the faith and deny them as you do now. What was that ?
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
tkubok
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4/26/2014 11:55:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/25/2014 9:21:17 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/25/2014 9:17:51 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 4/25/2014 8:43:32 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 4/25/2014 12:49:15 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
8 times out of 10 if a person is really anti-Christian you can guess they are probably former fundamentalists.

Did you know 89% of statistics are just made up ?

Yup.

Did you know that 77% of the time I just make up what percentage of statistics are made up ?

Id say that there is an 80% chance that you are 40% wrong.