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Why do religious people think this?

CrazyCowMan
Posts: 4
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4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/26/2014 8:22:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some of y'all do.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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4/26/2014 8:28:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Some atheists do, some don't. Some people love to group others together and assume that the group all shares the same beliefs.
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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/26/2014 8:32:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

Then what do you believe it came from?

If you believe there is an origin surely that means you are not truly an Atheist, since the origin can only be God?
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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4/29/2014 8:11:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 8:32:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.
Not all atheists believe this.

Then what do you believe it came from? This is a fair question.

If you believe there is an origin surely that means you are not truly an Atheist, since the origin can only be God? This is not a fair question.
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SemperVI
Posts: 294
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4/29/2014 8:19:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm confused, are we talking about "religious dudes", atheists or the big bang theory?
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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4/29/2014 8:45:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing

Some people don't consider empty space to be a "thing."
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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4/29/2014 8:53:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 8:32:35 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

Then what do you believe it came from?

If you believe there is an origin surely that means you are not truly an Atheist, since the origin can only be God?

First, let's establish that this is essentially the prime mover argument. All this does is show that something caused things to be, which is a questionable statement anyways (we don't have to believe there is any origin), but I'll accept it since it's not worth it to argue the point.

So let's suppose the argument to be true, i.e. something that is void of the laws of this universe, specifically the law of causation (God has no cause), has to exist because the universe exists.

This prime cause could be anything outside of our dimension. Developments in string theory posit multiple dimensions. And if something were to exist in a different dimension that is void of causation but effects the existence of our universe, it would not be "God" in any proper sense at all except for the fact that it created things in our universe. If you want to call this "God", then sure, but realize that you are worshiping something that may be a strawberry donut in a different dimension.

There may (arguably) be reason to suppose the existence of something supernatural (that is, outside of the physical laws of our specific OBSERVABLE universe), but there is absolutely no reason to suppose that this thing is immaterial, a necessary criterion of "God"; it could be a physical thing outside of our specific realm, so to speak.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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4/29/2014 9:20:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing

This is incorrect.

It is possible for particles to come into existence from a quantum field. The particles will come in pairs of opposite charges and will consequentially eliminate each other almost instantaneously; thus, there is no violation of the law of conservation of mass, because ultimately:

-1 + 1 = 0
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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4/29/2014 9:22:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
My apologies, I think I misunderstood what you were saying in my above post.

Nothing is a term that can be defined in a variety of ways. I was saying that, if we define nothing as a space in which there is no physical matter, then it is possible for such a phenomenon to happen. If you define nothing as absolute nothingness (not even quantum fields), then yes, such a thing would be impossible.

It is debatable as to whether such a nothingness exists, however.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/29/2014 9:23:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

In all fairness, it's not accurate to say that they "always" think this. The religious, like every other subgroup of people, are composed of members from both extremes and everything in-between.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/29/2014 9:28:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 9:20:51 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing

This is incorrect.

It is possible for particles to come into existence from a quantum field. The particles will come in pairs of opposite charges and will consequentially eliminate each other almost instantaneously; thus, there is no violation of the law of conservation of mass, because ultimately:

-1 + 1 = 0

So where'd the quantum field come from?
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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4/29/2014 9:35:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 9:28:18 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:20:51 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing

This is incorrect.

It is possible for particles to come into existence from a quantum field. The particles will come in pairs of opposite charges and will consequentially eliminate each other almost instantaneously; thus, there is no violation of the law of conservation of mass, because ultimately:

-1 + 1 = 0

So where'd the quantum field come from?

Quantum fields, from my knowledge, are largely static (in contrast to space, which can be drawn back to a point of singularity); consequentially, it doesn't really seem as though they have an origin.

It would be akin to asking, "Where did "2" come from?" (This is a rhetorical question, of course.) I don't know if it's something you can really ask about quantum fields.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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4/29/2014 9:37:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 9:35:21 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:28:18 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:20:51 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing

This is incorrect.

It is possible for particles to come into existence from a quantum field. The particles will come in pairs of opposite charges and will consequentially eliminate each other almost instantaneously; thus, there is no violation of the law of conservation of mass, because ultimately:

-1 + 1 = 0

So where'd the quantum field come from?

Quantum fields, from my knowledge, are largely static (in contrast to space, which can be drawn back to a point of singularity); consequentially, it doesn't really seem as though they have an origin.

It would be akin to asking, "Where did "2" come from?" (This is a rhetorical question, of course.) I don't know if it's something you can really ask about quantum fields.

I was only joking, Dude. :)
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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4/29/2014 9:38:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 9:37:34 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:35:21 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:28:18 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:20:51 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing

This is incorrect.

It is possible for particles to come into existence from a quantum field. The particles will come in pairs of opposite charges and will consequentially eliminate each other almost instantaneously; thus, there is no violation of the law of conservation of mass, because ultimately:

-1 + 1 = 0

So where'd the quantum field come from?

Quantum fields, from my knowledge, are largely static (in contrast to space, which can be drawn back to a point of singularity); consequentially, it doesn't really seem as though they have an origin.

It would be akin to asking, "Where did "2" come from?" (This is a rhetorical question, of course.) I don't know if it's something you can really ask about quantum fields.

I was only joking, Dude. :)

You got me :)
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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4/29/2014 10:08:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 8:45:41 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:39:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 8:21:42 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

I'm not atheist, but it's plausible to say that something came from nothing, given that "nothing" simply refers to empty space lacking physical matter.

No, nothing implies, nothing... No space, no matter, no time.. Nothing, is nothing

Some people don't consider empty space to be a "thing."

Some people think clowns are scary.

What does empty space being a thing or a non thing have to do with nothing? After all - a "thing" is nothing more than an object that one need not, cannot, nor does not wish to give a specific name to. Whereas "nothing" is quite literally not anything, or no single "thing", having no prospect of progress or value.
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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4/29/2014 10:18:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 9:22:37 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
My apologies, I think I misunderstood what you were saying in my above post.

Nothing is a term that can be defined in a variety of ways. I was saying that, if we define nothing as a space in which there is no physical matter, then it is possible for such a phenomenon to happen. If you define nothing as absolute nothingness (not even quantum fields), then yes, such a thing would be impossible.

It is debatable as to whether such a nothingness exists, however.

There is "nothing" to debate. If nothing existed then nothing would exist.

-- Sorry, couldn't resist :-)
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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4/30/2014 1:22:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

Because without believing there is anything above nature, this is what you must believe.
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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4/30/2014 1:31:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 1:22:03 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

Because without believing there is anything above nature, this is what you must believe.

And because you do believe there is something above nature (whatever that means) you must believe that you are the lowest form of life in existence.

See how that works I get to tell you what you MUST believe, without any reason, it's not even a fun game really.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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4/30/2014 6:35:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 1:22:03 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

Because without believing there is anything above nature, this is what you must believe.

Refer to my post, please. I'll repost it here:

First, let's establish that this is essentially the prime mover argument. All this does is show that something caused things to be, which is a questionable statement anyways (we don't have to believe there is any origin), but I'll accept it since it's not worth it to argue the point.

So let's suppose the argument to be true, i.e. something that is void of the laws of this universe, specifically the law of causation (God has no cause), has to exist because the universe exists.

This prime cause could be anything outside of our dimension. Developments in string theory posit multiple dimensions. And if something were to exist in a different dimension that is void of causation but effects the existence of our universe, it would not be "God" in any proper sense at all except for the fact that it created things in our universe. If you want to call this "God", then sure, but realize that you are worshiping something that may be a strawberry donut in a different dimension.

There may (arguably) be reason to suppose the existence of something supernatural (that is, outside of the physical laws of our specific OBSERVABLE universe), but there is absolutely no reason to suppose that this thing is immaterial, a necessary criterion of "God"; it could be a physical thing outside of our specific realm, so to speak.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 7:06:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

And why do Atheists always think that people believe in God out of fear of death? I don't.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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4/30/2014 7:28:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 7:06:06 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

And why do Atheists always think that people believe in God out of fear of death? I don't.

Most do, I would argue.

This isn't an opinion, it's just how it is. People often become religious when they realize their own mortality. Look at how popular the quote by Christ is, where he says that he who believes in him shall have life though he may die.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 7:32:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 7:28:51 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 7:06:06 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

And why do Atheists always think that people believe in God out of fear of death? I don't.

Most do, I would argue.

This isn't an opinion, it's just how it is. People often become religious when they realize their own mortality. Look at how popular the quote by Christ is, where he says that he who believes in him shall have life though he may die.

Cool I can only speak for myself as the concept is silly though, whats scary about "nothing" when you die?? You would never even know it lol.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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4/30/2014 7:33:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 7:32:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 7:28:51 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 7:06:06 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/26/2014 7:02:14 AM, CrazyCowMan wrote:
Why do religious dudes always think that Athiests think that something came from nothing. We don't believe this.

And why do Atheists always think that people believe in God out of fear of death? I don't.

Most do, I would argue.

This isn't an opinion, it's just how it is. People often become religious when they realize their own mortality. Look at how popular the quote by Christ is, where he says that he who believes in him shall have life though he may die.

Cool I can only speak for myself as the concept is silly though, whats scary about "nothing" when you die?? You would never even know it lol.

Lol I mean I agree.

One of the things Epicurus held is that fearing death is just as irrational as fearing the time before you were alive.
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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5/1/2014 7:33:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 10:18:40 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:22:37 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
My apologies, I think I misunderstood what you were saying in my above post.

Nothing is a term that can be defined in a variety of ways. I was saying that, if we define nothing as a space in which there is no physical matter, then it is possible for such a phenomenon to happen. If you define nothing as absolute nothingness (not even quantum fields), then yes, such a thing would be impossible.

It is debatable as to whether such a nothingness exists, however.

There is "nothing" to debate. If nothing existed then nothing would exist.

-- Sorry, couldn't resist :-)

...

http://i24.photobucket.com...
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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5/1/2014 7:39:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 7:33:14 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 4/29/2014 10:18:40 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 4/29/2014 9:22:37 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
My apologies, I think I misunderstood what you were saying in my above post.

Nothing is a term that can be defined in a variety of ways. I was saying that, if we define nothing as a space in which there is no physical matter, then it is possible for such a phenomenon to happen. If you define nothing as absolute nothingness (not even quantum fields), then yes, such a thing would be impossible.

It is debatable as to whether such a nothingness exists, however.

There is "nothing" to debate. If nothing existed then nothing would exist.

-- Sorry, couldn't resist :-)

...

http://i24.photobucket.com...

hahaha - nice