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Fight Injustice in Every Case Observed By You

dattaswami
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4/29/2014 12:19:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Protect Justice and Function in the line of God

Devotee: "Why the injustice in the society is not suppressed completely in spite of our hectic efforts?"

Swami replied: The administration of this world is the subject of God. God is well versed in His subject. The subject of the human being is to attain the grace of God. Of course, it is the duty of every human being to oppose the injustice and support justice in the society so that God is pleased with such attitude even though such assistance in His work is not required by God from any human being. If you are trying to destroy the injustice and protect the justice, you are in the line of the function of God.

Hence, your such effort is always for the pleasure of God. Hence, you should never retire from this activity as long as you are alive. Even if you do not put such effort, do not think that injustice will prevail over the justice. Anyway, God interferes and destroys the injustice and protects the justice since this is the subject of God. If you are putting up this practical effort continuously, God is pleased with your mentality even though such effort is not practically required. Lord Krishna told Arjuna that He will destroy all the bad Kaurava"s even if Arjuna withdraws from the war. Actually, the force in Arjuna"s fight was Krishna alone. This was proved when Arjuna failed to fight even with ordinary hunters after Krishna left this earth.

However, sometimes, inspite of your hectic effort, the injustice prevails over justice. In such case, you get discouraged due to lack of sharp analysis of the theory of deeds (Karma chakra). Whenever there is conflict between justice and injustice, there may be two possibilities: 1) it is a fresh situation of injustice trying to beat the justice. Ex.: Kauravas, the incarnations of demons, are insulting Pandavas, the angels. Arjuna tried his best through fight to destroy the injustice. The Lord helped him and Arjuna succeeded. Your efforts also will succeed in this type of case with the help of God. 2) This situation is special and your effort to control the injustice fails. Ex.: before the birth of Krishna, seven kids delivered by His mother were killed by Kamsa and all the efforts put by the parents of Krishna failed to stop that cruel act.

Here, God did not help them in their effort because the kids killed were angels born on this earth for few hours only due to some divine curse, who got salvation after their death. Therefore, you should not be perturbed when you fail to control the injustice in some case since the background of the previous birth is not known to you as per the Gita (Natvam vettha"). X may be beating Y based on the divine punishment since in the previous birth X was beaten by Y. Hence, you should not be discouraged in such special cases and should continue your effort to fight against the injustice and protect the justice so that God is pleased with you for your attitude. You have no capability of differentiating the above two types of cases and hence, you should fight against injustice in every case observed by you. If you fail in a case, treat that as second type mentioned above and do not get discouraged at all for your failure.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 12:19:41 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Protect Justice and Function in the line of God

Devotee: "Why the injustice in the society is not suppressed completely in spite of our hectic efforts?"

Swami replied: The administration of this world is the subject of God. God is well versed in His subject. The subject of the human being is to attain the grace of God. Of course, it is the duty of every human being to oppose the injustice and support justice in the society so that God is pleased with such attitude even though such assistance in His work is not required by God from any human being. If you are trying to destroy the injustice and protect the justice, you are in the line of the function of God.

Hence, your such effort is always for the pleasure of God. Hence, you should never retire from this activity as long as you are alive. Even if you do not put such effort, do not think that injustice will prevail over the justice. Anyway, God interferes and destroys the injustice and protects the justice since this is the subject of God. If you are putting up this practical effort continuously, God is pleased with your mentality even though such effort is not practically required. Lord Krishna told Arjuna that He will destroy all the bad Kaurava"s even if Arjuna withdraws from the war. Actually, the force in Arjuna"s fight was Krishna alone. This was proved when Arjuna failed to fight even with ordinary hunters after Krishna left this earth.

However, sometimes, inspite of your hectic effort, the injustice prevails over justice. In such case, you get discouraged due to lack of sharp analysis of the theory of deeds (Karma chakra). Whenever there is conflict between justice and injustice, there may be two possibilities: 1) it is a fresh situation of injustice trying to beat the justice. Ex.: Kauravas, the incarnations of demons, are insulting Pandavas, the angels. Arjuna tried his best through fight to destroy the injustice. The Lord helped him and Arjuna succeeded. Your efforts also will succeed in this type of case with the help of God. 2) This situation is special and your effort to control the injustice fails. Ex.: before the birth of Krishna, seven kids delivered by His mother were killed by Kamsa and all the efforts put by the parents of Krishna failed to stop that cruel act.

Here, God did not help them in their effort because the kids killed were angels born on this earth for few hours only due to some divine curse, who got salvation after their death. Therefore, you should not be perturbed when you fail to control the injustice in some case since the background of the previous birth is not known to you as per the Gita (Natvam vettha"). X may be beating Y based on the divine punishment since in the previous birth X was beaten by Y. Hence, you should not be discouraged in such special cases and should continue your effort to fight against the injustice and protect the justice so that God is pleased with you for your attitude. You have no capability of differentiating the above two types of cases and hence, you should fight against injustice in every case observed by you. If you fail in a case, treat that as second type mentioned above and do not get discouraged at all for your failure.

The greatest injustice of all is the injustice done daily, hourly, by the minute, to the God and Creator of this whole existence.

Ironically, the greatest injustice done to him is by those who claim to believe in his son, but teach God-dishonouring things like the Trinity.

I confess I can understand the injustice done to him by Atheists who do not recognise what God is doing about everyday injustice, in order to not only bring it to an end, but make sure it can never be repeated at any point in the future for any excuse whatever.

The real injustice though is done to him by those who profess to follow his word, but in reality only accept the bits of it that suit them, ignoring what God wants them to know, not even truly caring about his viewpoint..

The vengeance awaiting them will be much greater than that awaiting any others, albeit only briefly.

Once the injustice being done to God has been sorted out, and it will be, it will also be possible for him to put right all the injustice done to humanity, even by other humans, over the last 6 millennia or so.

Until the injustice done to God is avenged it will be impossible for any, even God to put the injustice to man right because it is completely tangled up with the injustice done to him.

That is why Jesus linked Love of his father, with love of our fellow man, because the two are completely inseparable, since if you don't love your fellow man, whatever his origins, as much as you love yourself then you cannot truly love the God who created all this, since he loves every part of his creation, and harm done to any part of it hurts him deeply.
dattaswami
Posts: 322
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4/29/2014 10:40:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Control of Justice (balance of society) "

If the love to God cannot replace the injustice, atleast fear to God is needed. If the student is not studying due to love and respect to the teacher, atleast the cane of teacher is required. To establish bond with God or fear to God, the proof for the very basic existence of God is needed. If you can explain everything and if there is nothing beyond your understanding, then you are the God. Therefore, unimaginable God with unimaginable power is to be established and that can be done only through unimaginable miracles.

Acceptance of God is the basis to control sin in society and there is no point of love to God. Fear and respect for God, form the basis here for which the existence of unimaginable power of God is to be basically believed. In the path of following justice (Pravrutti) the unimaginable power of God proved by miracles plays the key role. The benefit of heaven for following justice and the punishment in hell for doing injustice are based on the unimaginable power of God only.

The place of God in Pravrutti is only just as the source of such power. In the path of reaching God (Nivrutti) there is no such need since it is fully filled with extreme love to God. God alone occupies the entire place in Nivrutti and there is no place for any other concept like justice, injustice etc., here.

Today the need for the majority in the society is to cut the unjust bonds and replace them by justified bonds. The justified bonds have no strength to cut the unjust bonds because the unjust bonds already cut them. Justice is already defeated by injustice and now again the same justice cannot defeat the injustice. To cut the bond with injustice, most powerful bond with God can alone do it. Now Nivrutti, which is the establishment of bond with God is needed in Pravrutti for everybody.

At 4/29/2014 1:20:18 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I agree, injustice must be fought. But why does this belief require a belief in OP's god?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/2/2014 6:23:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 1:20:18 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I agree, injustice must be fought. But why does this belief require a belief in OP's god?

Because only he can remove all injustice, including sickness and death which is indiscriminate and not subject to justice. Ask any disabled person if their disability is fair.

Death and illness are the two injustices that man will never conquer, but which God will bring to an end.
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/2/2014 6:25:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 10:40:05 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Control of Justice (balance of society) "

If the love to God cannot replace the injustice, atleast fear to God is needed. If the student is not studying due to love and respect to the teacher, atleast the cane of teacher is required. To establish bond with God or fear to God, the proof for the very basic existence of God is needed. If you can explain everything and if there is nothing beyond your understanding, then you are the God. Therefore, unimaginable God with unimaginable power is to be established and that can be done only through unimaginable miracles.

Acceptance of God is the basis to control sin in society and there is no point of love to God. Fear and respect for God, form the basis here for which the existence of unimaginable power of God is to be basically believed. In the path of following justice (Pravrutti) the unimaginable power of God proved by miracles plays the key role. The benefit of heaven for following justice and the punishment in hell for doing injustice are based on the unimaginable power of God only.

The place of God in Pravrutti is only just as the source of such power. In the path of reaching God (Nivrutti) there is no such need since it is fully filled with extreme love to God. God alone occupies the entire place in Nivrutti and there is no place for any other concept like justice, injustice etc., here.

Today the need for the majority in the society is to cut the unjust bonds and replace them by justified bonds. The justified bonds have no strength to cut the unjust bonds because the unjust bonds already cut them. Justice is already defeated by injustice and now again the same justice cannot defeat the injustice. To cut the bond with injustice, most powerful bond with God can alone do it. Now Nivrutti, which is the establishment of bond with God is needed in Pravrutti for everybody.


At 4/29/2014 1:20:18 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I agree, injustice must be fought. But why does this belief require a belief in OP's god?

God can and will remove all injustice, including sickness and death.

His plan is nearly at it's end now and when fulfilled will ensure that such injustice can never again be inflicted on mankind as it was by Satan and Adam.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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5/2/2014 7:12:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:19:41 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Protect Justice and Function in the line of God

Devotee: "Why the injustice in the society is not suppressed completely in spite of our hectic efforts?"

Swami replied: The administration of this world is the subject of God. God is well versed in His subject. The subject of the human being is to attain the grace of God. Of course, it is the duty of every human being to oppose the injustice and support justice in the society so that God is pleased with such attitude even though such assistance in His work is not required by God from any human being. If you are trying to destroy the injustice and protect the justice, you are in the line of the function of God.

Hence, your such effort is always for the pleasure of God. Hence, you should never retire from this activity as long as you are alive. Even if you do not put such effort, do not think that injustice will prevail over the justice. Anyway, God interferes and destroys the injustice and protects the justice since this is the subject of God. If you are putting up this practical effort continuously, God is pleased with your mentality even though such effort is not practically required. Lord Krishna told Arjuna that He will destroy all the bad Kaurava"s even if Arjuna withdraws from the war. Actually, the force in Arjuna"s fight was Krishna alone. This was proved when Arjuna failed to fight even with ordinary hunters after Krishna left this earth.

However, sometimes, inspite of your hectic effort, the injustice prevails over justice. In such case, you get discouraged due to lack of sharp analysis of the theory of deeds (Karma chakra). Whenever there is conflict between justice and injustice, there may be two possibilities: 1) it is a fresh situation of injustice trying to beat the justice. Ex.: Kauravas, the incarnations of demons, are insulting Pandavas, the angels. Arjuna tried his best through fight to destroy the injustice. The Lord helped him and Arjuna succeeded. Your efforts also will succeed in this type of case with the help of God. 2) This situation is special and your effort to control the injustice fails. Ex.: before the birth of Krishna, seven kids delivered by His mother were killed by Kamsa and all the efforts put by the parents of Krishna failed to stop that cruel act.

Here, God did not help them in their effort because the kids killed were angels born on this earth for few hours only due to some divine curse, who got salvation after their death. Therefore, you should not be perturbed when you fail to control the injustice in some case since the background of the previous birth is not known to you as per the Gita (Natvam vettha"). X may be beating Y based on the divine punishment since in the previous birth X was beaten by Y. Hence, you should not be discouraged in such special cases and should continue your effort to fight against the injustice and protect the justice so that God is pleased with you for your attitude. You have no capability of differentiating the above two types of cases and hence, you should fight against injustice in every case observed by you. If you fail in a case, treat that as second type mentioned above and do not get discouraged at all for your failure.

The greatest injustice of all is the injustice done daily, hourly, by the minute, to the God and Creator of this whole existence.

Ironically, the greatest injustice done to him is by those who claim to believe in his son, but teach God-dishonouring things like the Trinity.

It took TWO SENTENCES before MadCornish tossed out for consideration that belief in the triune nature of the godhead is "God-dishonoring".

Yet he'll moan and groan that someone has "hi-jacked" the thread!

I confess I can understand the injustice done to him by Atheists who do not recognise what God is doing about everyday injustice, in order to not only bring it to an end, but make sure it can never be repeated at any point in the future for any excuse whatever.

The real injustice though is done to him by those who profess to follow his word, but in reality only accept the bits of it that suit them, ignoring what God wants them to know, not even truly caring about his viewpoint..

..... and I just bet that MadCornish has on the tip of his tongue the identity of a group of people who DO care about God's viewpoint, who DO follow His word, etc. Any takers?

The vengeance awaiting them will be much greater than that awaiting any others, albeit only briefly.

Thanks for the speculation on the future. The record sustained by you and your group is enviable.

Once the injustice being done to God has been sorted out, and it will be, it will also be possible for him to put right all the injustice done to humanity, even by other humans, over the last 6 millennia or so.

Until the injustice done to God is avenged it will be impossible for any, even God to put the injustice to man right because it is completely tangled up with the injustice done to him.

That is why Jesus linked Love of his father, with love of our fellow man, because the two are completely inseparable, since if you don't love your fellow man, whatever his origins, as much as you love yourself then you cannot truly love the God who created all this, since he loves every part of his creation, and harm done to any part of it hurts him deeply.

The injustice is propagated by religious organizations who profess with their mouths to follow the Bible, but in reality are no better off than atheists. That's why they get trapped in so many inconsistencies by atheists.

Atheist: Do you follow the Bible?
Proposed Christian: Oh, yes, I follow the Bible

Atheist: What are you, religiously?
Proposed Christian: I'm a "x"
Atheist: Can you find that in the Bible?
Proposed Christian: Well, no, but we made it up based upon what we think we do.

Atheist: Of what church are you a member, if any?
Proposed Christian: I'm a member of "x" church
Atheist: Can you find that in the Bible?
Proposed Christian: Well, no, we made that up too. All the good names were taken.

Atheist: How is that group organized?
Proposed Christian: (Elaborates on the organization)
Atheist: Was the church of the New Testament organized exactly like that?
Proposed Christian: Well, not exactly. We changed it as we felt was necessary.

Atheist: But you ... ummm ... do follow the New Testament?
Proposed Christian: Sure, except when we decided the NT writers made mistakes
Atheist: WHAT?
Proposed Christian: Yes, many of the things said by Jesus, Peter, and Paul were all wrong.

and on .... and on ... and on ... AND ON. And THEN, when the dust settles, and the atheist goes on his merry way, the "proposed Christian" shakes his head in pity and says, "Poor, fella, Satan has his understanding veiled."

Hmmm .... that's a good one!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The greatest injustice of all is the injustice done daily, hourly, by the minute, to the God and Creator of this whole existence.

This, beyond most things I see posted, is among the most laughable. As though an human actually could cause any god any injustice.

Ironically, the greatest injustice done to him is by those who claim to believe in his son, but teach God-dishonouring things like the Trinity.

Melodious and fluffy garbage still smells like garbage.

I confess I can understand the injustice done to him by Atheists who do not recognise what God is doing about everyday injustice, in order to not only bring it to an end, but make sure it can never be repeated at any point in the future for any excuse whatever.

There is no way to recognize something being done by a nonexistent entity. There is no Jehovah, and there is no Yaweh. Two names, one 'god,' all kinds of retardation.

The real injustice though is done to him by those who profess to follow his word, but in reality only accept the bits of it that suit them, ignoring what God wants them to know, not even truly caring about his viewpoint..

So, almost all christians, then? And what, precisely, is it that '...god wants them to know?' And how is it that you know what god wants them to know? Was this revealed to you? Nonexistent entities don't have viewpoints.

The vengeance awaiting them will be much greater than that awaiting any others, albeit only briefly.

Vengeance... The single most prevalent act performed by your god. But 'god is love,' right? I know, first hand, how JW's reconcile these two, and it's ridiculous. However, I often wonder how it is that christians in general view an entity that shows vengeance several times for each and every time he shows mercy...?

Once the injustice being done to God has been sorted out, and it will be, it will also be possible for him to put right all the injustice done to humanity, even by other humans, over the last 6 millennia or so.

Injustice being done to god... LOL! And the only justice done to humanity has been at the hands of those that profess to speak on behalf of divinity. Throughout human history, the most vicious thing that has ever been done is to remove the ability to think for oneself. This, above all else, is the primary focus of religious indoctrination.

Until the injustice done to God is avenged it will be impossible for any, even God to put the injustice to man right because it is completely tangled up with the injustice done to him.

I think this just might be the stupidest thing I have seen you write, in the short time I've been here.

That is why Jesus linked Love of his father, with love of our fellow man, because the two are completely inseparable, since if you don't love your fellow man, whatever his origins, as much as you love yourself then you cannot truly love the God who created all this, since he loves every part of his creation, and harm done to any part of it hurts him deeply.

Love your fellow man? Loves every part of his creation? Hurts him deeply? Your god has feelings? Does he cry? Or is he too macho for that? We know that the jeebus wept, in the stories... When god cries, do the angels cry? Is it possible to 'hurt' something of the magnitude you people describe? I mean, really... how could a creature as insignificant as man cause any harm at all, to something like the god of the bible?

Ridiculous. Religious pseudo-intellectual biblebabble woowoo...
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
MadCornishBiker
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5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The greatest injustice of all is the injustice done daily, hourly, by the minute, to the God and Creator of this whole existence.

This, beyond most things I see posted, is among the most laughable. As though an human actually could cause any god any injustice.


You are doing it now by your unfair comments.

Justice, or injustice, isn't always physical, a false accusation is injustice enough, claiming he doesn't exist after all he has done for us is enough.

If one day your children, if you ever have any, turn on you and decide they won't acknowledge that you exist, I can guarantee you will feel that as an injustice, just as God does when we humans do just that.

Ironically, the greatest injustice done to him is by those who claim to believe in his son, but teach God-dishonouring things like the Trinity.

Melodious and fluffy garbage still smells like garbage.


Nothing in scripture is garbage, nor does it smell like it except to one who has a distorted sense of smell. Nor is my comment about which you say that. The Triniity teaching is garbage, but to many it smells sweet.

I confess I can understand the injustice done to him by Atheists who do not recognise what God is doing about everyday injustice, in order to not only bring it to an end, but make sure it can never be repeated at any point in the future for any excuse whatever.

There is no way to recognize something being done by a nonexistent entity. There is no Jehovah, and there is no Yaweh. Two names, one 'god,' all kinds of retardation.


You could not be more wrong. If Jehovah did not exist, neither would you.

The real injustice though is done to him by those who profess to follow his word, but in reality only accept the bits of it that suit them, ignoring what God wants them to know, not even truly caring about his viewpoint..

So, almost all christians, then? And what, precisely, is it that '...god wants them to know?' And how is it that you know what god wants them to know? Was this revealed to you? Nonexistent entities don't have viewpoints.

I know what God wants us to know, at least as far as he wants us to now it at present because I don't just read scripture I study it, and I trust in him to help me understand the things that others don't, what Paul calls "the deep things of God". They are open to any who put faith and trust in him (James 1:5-8) and who don;t rely on the false wisdom of this world. However they are only open to those ones.


The vengeance awaiting them will be much greater than that awaiting any others, albeit only briefly.

Vengeance... The single most prevalent act performed by your god. But 'god is love,' right? I know, first hand, how JW's reconcile these two, and it's ridiculous. However, I often wonder how it is that christians in general view an entity that shows vengeance several times for each and every time he shows mercy...?

Once the injustice being done to God has been sorted out, and it will be, it will also be possible for him to put right all the injustice done to humanity, even by other humans, over the last 6 millennia or so.

Actually it is easy to reconcile them God's vengeance is against injustice, something we should all look for vengeance against.

The injustice which means that some are born disabled.

The injustice that means people die when they were not created to do so.

The injustice that was visited on us by the fact that Satan choose to misuse the free will given to him out of love by his God and creator.

The injustice that came upon us because Adam didn't trust in God and then went the way Satan wanted him to go.

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

Ingratitude simply doesn't cover it. God has always taken vengeance against those who have stood in the way f his plans for a peaceful earth, and I mean real peace not just an absence of war, but complete peace from any anxiety, and he will one day do so for one last time, having ensure that such injustice can never again be repeated


Injustice being done to god... LOL! And the only justice done to humanity has been at the hands of those that profess to speak on behalf of divinity. Throughout human history, the most vicious thing that has ever been done is to remove the ability to think for oneself. This, above all else, is the primary focus of religious indoctrination.


No not the only injustice, but the greatest injustice, yes, because they only profess to speak on behalf of God. In reality they speak on behalf of their God, Satan. How better to get at God than to encourage people like you to speak as you do and give you cause, albeit false cause, to do so?

After all his conversation with Eve was just that, slandering God and calling him a liar.

Until the injustice done to God is avenged it will be impossible for any, even God to put the injustice to man right because it is completely tangled up with the injustice done to him.

I think this just might be the stupidest thing I have seen you write, in the short time I've been here.

You may well think so but it is also the truest. When God finally does put right the injustice done to mankind it can only be achieved through undoing the injustice done to him in the first place, which sparked all this off in the Garden of Eden.


That is why Jesus linked Love of his father, with love of our fellow man, because the two are completely inseparable, since if you don't love your fellow man, whatever his origins, as much as you love yourself then you cannot truly love the God who created all this, since he loves every part of his creation, and harm done to any part of it hurts him deeply.

Love your fellow man? Loves every part of his creation? Hurts him deeply? Your god has feelings? Does he cry? Or is he too macho for that? We know that the jeebus wept, in the stories... When god cries, do the angels cry? Is it possible to 'hurt' something of the magnitude you people describe? I mean, really... how could a creature as insignificant as man cause any harm at all, to something like the god of the bible?

Ridiculous. Religious pseudo-intellectual biblebabble woowoo...

No he doesn't cry, that is a physical thing, but when what you love turns on you, especially unjustly, that hurts believe me. It has happened to me and that hurt is never far from my mind and heart. Therefore I understand only too well how God feels that his creation has done just that, turned against him.

Like God, I don't show that hurt all the time, but I still feel it inside. Actually until you made me think of it I hadn't realised that God and I actually have some pain in common, only his is much greater than mine and has gone on for so much longer. However it is the same pain, the pain of injustice done , and the effects of that injustice.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
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5/3/2014 6:49:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The greatest injustice of all is the injustice done daily, hourly, by the minute, to the God and Creator of this whole existence.

Gee your god must be a pissant.

Ooh those naughty humans do him an injustice.

Tell him to HTFU.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/3/2014 8:51:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The greatest injustice of all is the injustice done daily, hourly, by the minute, to the God and Creator of this whole existence.

Ironically, the greatest injustice done to him is by those who claim to believe in his son, but teach God-dishonouring things like the Trinity.

People cannot do injustice to God, they cannot oppress God, what are you saying, if they oppress but not following the commands, then they only oppress their own selves !!
monty1
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5/3/2014 11:05:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/29/2014 12:19:41 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Protect Justice and Function in the line of God

Devotee: "Why the injustice in the society is not suppressed completely in spite of our hectic efforts?"

Swami replied: The administration of this world is the subject of God. God is well versed in His subject. The subject of the human being is to attain the grace of God. Of course, it is the duty of every human being to oppose the injustice and support justice in the society so that God is pleased with such attitude even though such assistance in His work is not required by God from any human being. If you are trying to destroy the injustice and protect the justice, you are in the line of the function of God.

Hence, your such effort is always for the pleasure of God. Hence, you should never retire from this activity as long as you are alive. Even if you do not put such effort, do not think that injustice will prevail over the justice. Anyway, God interferes and destroys the injustice and protects the justice since this is the subject of God. If you are putting up this practical effort continuously, God is pleased with your mentality even though such effort is not practically required. Lord Krishna told Arjuna that He will destroy all the bad Kaurava"s even if Arjuna withdraws from the war. Actually, the force in Arjuna"s fight was Krishna alone. This was proved when Arjuna failed to fight even with ordinary hunters after Krishna left this earth.

However, sometimes, inspite of your hectic effort, the injustice prevails over justice. In such case, you get discouraged due to lack of sharp analysis of the theory of deeds (Karma chakra). Whenever there is conflict between justice and injustice, there may be two possibilities: 1) it is a fresh situation of injustice trying to beat the justice. Ex.: Kauravas, the incarnations of demons, are insulting Pandavas, the angels. Arjuna tried his best through fight to destroy the injustice. The Lord helped him and Arjuna succeeded. Your efforts also will succeed in this type of case with the help of God. 2) This situation is special and your effort to control the injustice fails. Ex.: before the birth of Krishna, seven kids delivered by His mother were killed by Kamsa and all the efforts put by the parents of Krishna failed to stop that cruel act.

Here, God did not help them in their effort because the kids killed were angels born on this earth for few hours only due to some divine curse, who got salvation after their death. Therefore, you should not be perturbed when you fail to control the injustice in some case since the background of the previous birth is not known to you as per the Gita (Natvam vettha"). X may be beating Y based on the divine punishment since in the previous birth X was beaten by Y. Hence, you should not be discouraged in such special cases and should continue your effort to fight against the injustice and protect the justice so that God is pleased with you for your attitude. You have no capability of differentiating the above two types of cases and hence, you should fight against injustice in every case observed by you. If you fail in a case, treat that as second type mentioned above and do not get discouraged at all for your failure.

One need only modify his view of what constitutes injustice in order to live a righteous life in his own mind. This can contribute greatly to the American propensity to do great evil to others throughout the world and still consider themselves righteous and good Christians. And the US government will not stop at any amount of effort to reinforce that feeling of righteousness.

In fairness to the US, it's common to all aggressor nations but in the case of the US the scale of injustice and aggression has exceeded all other nations for at least the last 50 or 60 years.

However, eventually when the people have been fooled too many times and it's started to adversely influence them, they will begin to fail to be taken in by their government's propaganda reinforcing efforts. Thus, the reluctance to go along with supporting their government in it's efforts to infringe on Russia's borders. It has resulted in an outspoken resistance and a realization that Russia is not the aggressor this time.

With upwards of 60% of the American people being opposed to another confrontation in Asia, it's calling for more direct and intense propaganda efforts to bring them onside. They must first feel righteous and good about it all.
MadCornishBiker
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5/3/2014 12:36:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 6:49:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
The greatest injustice of all is the injustice done daily, hourly, by the minute, to the God and Creator of this whole existence.

Gee your god must be a pissant.

Ooh those naughty humans do him an injustice.

Tell him to HTFU.

Yes, just like you do frequently, but those who do will pay the price if they don;t listen to him and learn from him.

Funny how often weak people like you mistake love and mercy for weakness. You'll learn, you have to be strong to be able to afford to be merciful.
MadCornishBiker
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5/3/2014 1:00:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 11:05:43 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:19:41 PM, dattaswami wrote:
Protect Justice and Function in the line of God

Devotee: "Why the injustice in the society is not suppressed completely in spite of our hectic efforts?"

Swami replied: The administration of this world is the subject of God. God is well versed in His subject. The subject of the human being is to attain the grace of God. Of course, it is the duty of every human being to oppose the injustice and support justice in the society so that God is pleased with such attitude even though such assistance in His work is not required by God from any human being. If you are trying to destroy the injustice and protect the justice, you are in the line of the function of God.

Hence, your such effort is always for the pleasure of God. Hence, you should never retire from this activity as long as you are alive. Even if you do not put such effort, do not think that injustice will prevail over the justice. Anyway, God interferes and destroys the injustice and protects the justice since this is the subject of God. If you are putting up this practical effort continuously, God is pleased with your mentality even though such effort is not practically required. Lord Krishna told Arjuna that He will destroy all the bad Kaurava"s even if Arjuna withdraws from the war. Actually, the force in Arjuna"s fight was Krishna alone. This was proved when Arjuna failed to fight even with ordinary hunters after Krishna left this earth.

However, sometimes, inspite of your hectic effort, the injustice prevails over justice. In such case, you get discouraged due to lack of sharp analysis of the theory of deeds (Karma chakra). Whenever there is conflict between justice and injustice, there may be two possibilities: 1) it is a fresh situation of injustice trying to beat the justice. Ex.: Kauravas, the incarnations of demons, are insulting Pandavas, the angels. Arjuna tried his best through fight to destroy the injustice. The Lord helped him and Arjuna succeeded. Your efforts also will succeed in this type of case with the help of God. 2) This situation is special and your effort to control the injustice fails. Ex.: before the birth of Krishna, seven kids delivered by His mother were killed by Kamsa and all the efforts put by the parents of Krishna failed to stop that cruel act.

Here, God did not help them in their effort because the kids killed were angels born on this earth for few hours only due to some divine curse, who got salvation after their death. Therefore, you should not be perturbed when you fail to control the injustice in some case since the background of the previous birth is not known to you as per the Gita (Natvam vettha"). X may be beating Y based on the divine punishment since in the previous birth X was beaten by Y. Hence, you should not be discouraged in such special cases and should continue your effort to fight against the injustice and protect the justice so that God is pleased with you for your attitude. You have no capability of differentiating the above two types of cases and hence, you should fight against injustice in every case observed by you. If you fail in a case, treat that as second type mentioned above and do not get discouraged at all for your failure.

One need only modify his view of what constitutes injustice in order to live a righteous life in his own mind. This can contribute greatly to the American propensity to do great evil to others throughout the world and still consider themselves righteous and good Christians. And the US government will not stop at any amount of effort to reinforce that feeling of righteousness.

In fairness to the US, it's common to all aggressor nations but in the case of the US the scale of injustice and aggression has exceeded all other nations for at least the last 50 or 60 years.

However, eventually when the people have been fooled too many times and it's started to adversely influence them, they will begin to fail to be taken in by their government's propaganda reinforcing efforts. Thus, the reluctance to go along with supporting their government in it's efforts to infringe on Russia's borders. It has resulted in an outspoken resistance and a realization that Russia is not the aggressor this time.

With upwards of 60% of the American people being opposed to another confrontation in Asia, it's calling for more direct and intense propaganda efforts to bring them onside. They must first feel righteous and good about it all.

That is part of the problem ,and it goes for morality as well.

Each person has their own idea, so I just stick with God's because his is perfect.

Most people don;t see death as an injustice, unless someone they love dies young, but God sees it as unjust that any have to die at all at the moment.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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5/3/2014 1:04:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

This, out of all that you have sputtered (and I've heard it all, before), is the only thing that I will choose to address. It is clear that you have swallowed the JW brand of christianity hook, line, and sinker... But to tell me that I blame god is sheer stupidity as the result of having ignored my words, almost entirely:
ONE DOES NOT BLAME SOMETHING IN WHICH THEY DO NOT BELIEVE. I don't believe your god exists, so I cannot blame him for anything. No, moron... There is ZERO evidence that the god in the pages of the bible even exists. I was created by two people in love. Your god had nothing to do with it.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
MadCornishBiker
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5/3/2014 3:02:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 1:04:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

This, out of all that you have sputtered (and I've heard it all, before), is the only thing that I will choose to address. It is clear that you have swallowed the JW brand of christianity hook, line, and sinker... But to tell me that I blame god is sheer stupidity as the result of having ignored my words, almost entirely:
ONE DOES NOT BLAME SOMETHING IN WHICH THEY DO NOT BELIEVE. I don't believe your god exists, so I cannot blame him for anything. No, moron... There is ZERO evidence that the god in the pages of the bible even exists. I was created by two people in love. Your god had nothing to do with it.

Actually it is the scriptural version of Christianity I have, as you put it, swallowed. The fact that the JWs also teach it simply proves they are on the same road as me, or I am on the same road as them I suppose, since they have been on it longer than I.

However, the only one I follow is Christ, and if they do also they good for them.

The only reason I have ever had anything to do with them was because I found that they believe the same things I believe, they did not convert me, they did not need to.

True they have taught me some things since, but nothing that I didn't find agreed 100% with scripture, and like the Beroeans I checked, carefully, very carefully. Acts 17:11.

I take very seriously the scriptural injunction to make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine. 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I am also well aware of the seriousness of Matthew 713, 14 and 21-23. as well as 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Scripture is, and always has been, for me, the final arbiter in all things to do with God and Christ, and as long as the JWs remain the same as I then I will be forced to support them purely for that reason and no other.

They take scripture very seriously which is why, even though they are often accused of changing the bible to suit their doctrine they have in fact al;ways done the opposite and have continually revised and refined their translation, and brought out improved editions in 1984 and 2013.

Ironically the same people who criticise them saying they alter scripture to suit their n doctrine also criticise them for changing their teachings when they find it necessary to. It would seem their critics want it both ways, but it doesn't work like that.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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5/3/2014 4:50:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 3:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:04:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

This, out of all that you have sputtered (and I've heard it all, before), is the only thing that I will choose to address. It is clear that you have swallowed the JW brand of christianity hook, line, and sinker... But to tell me that I blame god is sheer stupidity as the result of having ignored my words, almost entirely:
ONE DOES NOT BLAME SOMETHING IN WHICH THEY DO NOT BELIEVE. I don't believe your god exists, so I cannot blame him for anything. No, moron... There is ZERO evidence that the god in the pages of the bible even exists. I was created by two people in love. Your god had nothing to do with it.

Actually it is the scriptural version of Christianity I have, as you put it, swallowed. The fact that the JWs also teach it simply proves they are on the same road as me, or I am on the same road as them I suppose, since they have been on it longer than I.

However, the only one I follow is Christ, and if they do also they good for them.

The only reason I have ever had anything to do with them was because I found that they believe the same things I believe, they did not convert me, they did not need to.

You mean to tell us that you studied your Bible, especially your NT, and wound up in an organization nowhere mentioned in God's Holy Writ - a group which is not organized like the church of the New Testament. I think you shoulda passed 'em by and kept looking.

True they have taught me some things since, but nothing that I didn't find agreed 100% with scripture, and like the Beroeans I checked, carefully, very carefully. Acts 17:11.

They've taught me a thing or two, too. One of them is when they say that have "proof positive", we can take that to mean that they don't have a clue.

I take very seriously the scriptural injunction to make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine. 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I am also well aware of the seriousness of Matthew 713, 14 and 21-23. as well as 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Scripture is, and always has been, for me, the final arbiter in all things to do with God and Christ, and as long as the JWs remain the same as I then I will be forced to support them purely for that reason and no other.

They take scripture very seriously which is why, even though they are often accused of changing the bible to suit their doctrine they have in fact al;ways done the opposite and have continually revised and refined their translation, and brought out improved editions in 1984 and 2013.

.... and they didn't "revise" away their errors, did they? Nope, they kept them intact. Good job!

Ironically the same people who criticise them saying they alter scripture to suit their n doctrine also criticise them for changing their teachings when they find it necessary to. It would seem their critics want it both ways, but it doesn't work like that.

They do both:

(1) They alter the scriptures to suit their human doctrines, and
(2) They propagate ridiculous teachings which are only abandoned when the absurdity is apparent to everyone, including them.

Here's your "changing their teachings"

WatchTowerite: "Armageddon will begin in 1914"
Christian: Y'all are morons. Armageddon was a spiritual battle, not a physical one.
WatchTowerite: Yes, we were morons. 1914 came and went. Opps. We learned our lesson. Armageddon will crank up in 1925.

That's their "learning" for you.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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5/3/2014 4:58:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 4:50:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/3/2014 3:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:04:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

This, out of all that you have sputtered (and I've heard it all, before), is the only thing that I will choose to address. It is clear that you have swallowed the JW brand of christianity hook, line, and sinker... But to tell me that I blame god is sheer stupidity as the result of having ignored my words, almost entirely:
ONE DOES NOT BLAME SOMETHING IN WHICH THEY DO NOT BELIEVE. I don't believe your god exists, so I cannot blame him for anything. No, moron... There is ZERO evidence that the god in the pages of the bible even exists. I was created by two people in love. Your god had nothing to do with it.

Actually it is the scriptural version of Christianity I have, as you put it, swallowed. The fact that the JWs also teach it simply proves they are on the same road as me, or I am on the same road as them I suppose, since they have been on it longer than I.

However, the only one I follow is Christ, and if they do also they good for them.

The only reason I have ever had anything to do with them was because I found that they believe the same things I believe, they did not convert me, they did not need to.

You mean to tell us that you studied your Bible, especially your NT, and wound up in an organization nowhere mentioned in God's Holy Writ - a group which is not organized like the church of the New Testament. I think you shoulda passed 'em by and kept looking.

True they have taught me some things since, but nothing that I didn't find agreed 100% with scripture, and like the Beroeans I checked, carefully, very carefully. Acts 17:11.

They've taught me a thing or two, too. One of them is when they say that have "proof positive", we can take that to mean that they don't have a clue.

I take very seriously the scriptural injunction to make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine. 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I am also well aware of the seriousness of Matthew 713, 14 and 21-23. as well as 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Scripture is, and always has been, for me, the final arbiter in all things to do with God and Christ, and as long as the JWs remain the same as I then I will be forced to support them purely for that reason and no other.

They take scripture very seriously which is why, even though they are often accused of changing the bible to suit their doctrine they have in fact al;ways done the opposite and have continually revised and refined their translation, and brought out improved editions in 1984 and 2013.

.... and they didn't "revise" away their errors, did they? Nope, they kept them intact. Good job!

Ironically the same people who criticise them saying they alter scripture to suit their n doctrine also criticise them for changing their teachings when they find it necessary to. It would seem their critics want it both ways, but it doesn't work like that.

They do both:

(1) They alter the scriptures to suit their human doctrines, and
(2) They propagate ridiculous teachings which are only abandoned when the absurdity is apparent to everyone, including them.

Here's your "changing their teachings"

WatchTowerite: "Armageddon will begin in 1914"
Christian: Y'all are morons. Armageddon was a spiritual battle, not a physical one.
WatchTowerite: Yes, we were morons. 1914 came and went. Opps. We learned our lesson. Armageddon will crank up in 1925.

That's their "learning" for you.

I see you are even inventing dialogue to suit your desires, lol. Just like the one who leads you by the nose you are more than happy to distort truth to make your case.

No Anna that is not their learning. Unlike you they took not e of history and realised that their hopes were premature. 1914 was exactly what they said it was, but it did not lead to the great tribulation and Armageddon as they had hoped and thought.

At least they admitted the futility of their view, you have yet to accept the futility of yours which history is even further against than any JW hope there has ever been.

How come they can prove everything they teach from any translation then?

Of course they don't do both, that is illogical; in the extreme and just shows how desperate you are to be seen to be right.

I take it you are going to turn this thread into and anti JW tirade as well then?
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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5/3/2014 5:09:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 4:58:25 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 4:50:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/3/2014 3:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:04:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

This, out of all that you have sputtered (and I've heard it all, before), is the only thing that I will choose to address. It is clear that you have swallowed the JW brand of christianity hook, line, and sinker... But to tell me that I blame god is sheer stupidity as the result of having ignored my words, almost entirely:
ONE DOES NOT BLAME SOMETHING IN WHICH THEY DO NOT BELIEVE. I don't believe your god exists, so I cannot blame him for anything. No, moron... There is ZERO evidence that the god in the pages of the bible even exists. I was created by two people in love. Your god had nothing to do with it.

Actually it is the scriptural version of Christianity I have, as you put it, swallowed. The fact that the JWs also teach it simply proves they are on the same road as me, or I am on the same road as them I suppose, since they have been on it longer than I.

However, the only one I follow is Christ, and if they do also they good for them.

The only reason I have ever had anything to do with them was because I found that they believe the same things I believe, they did not convert me, they did not need to.

You mean to tell us that you studied your Bible, especially your NT, and wound up in an organization nowhere mentioned in God's Holy Writ - a group which is not organized like the church of the New Testament. I think you shoulda passed 'em by and kept looking.

True they have taught me some things since, but nothing that I didn't find agreed 100% with scripture, and like the Beroeans I checked, carefully, very carefully. Acts 17:11.

They've taught me a thing or two, too. One of them is when they say that have "proof positive", we can take that to mean that they don't have a clue.

I take very seriously the scriptural injunction to make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine. 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I am also well aware of the seriousness of Matthew 713, 14 and 21-23. as well as 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Scripture is, and always has been, for me, the final arbiter in all things to do with God and Christ, and as long as the JWs remain the same as I then I will be forced to support them purely for that reason and no other.

They take scripture very seriously which is why, even though they are often accused of changing the bible to suit their doctrine they have in fact al;ways done the opposite and have continually revised and refined their translation, and brought out improved editions in 1984 and 2013.

.... and they didn't "revise" away their errors, did they? Nope, they kept them intact. Good job!

Ironically the same people who criticise them saying they alter scripture to suit their n doctrine also criticise them for changing their teachings when they find it necessary to. It would seem their critics want it both ways, but it doesn't work like that.

They do both:

(1) They alter the scriptures to suit their human doctrines, and
(2) They propagate ridiculous teachings which are only abandoned when the absurdity is apparent to everyone, including them.

Here's your "changing their teachings"

WatchTowerite: "Armageddon will begin in 1914"
Christian: Y'all are morons. Armageddon was a spiritual battle, not a physical one.
WatchTowerite: Yes, we were morons. 1914 came and went. Opps. We learned our lesson. Armageddon will crank up in 1925.

That's their "learning" for you.

I see you are even inventing dialogue to suit your desires, lol. Just like the one who leads you by the nose you are more than happy to distort truth to make your case.

No Anna that is not their learning. Unlike you they took not e of history and realised that their hopes were premature. 1914 was exactly what they said it was, but it did not lead to the great tribulation and Armageddon as they had hoped and thought.

I think you're a little confused.

I have repeatedly asked for ONE SPECULATION predicted by the WatchTower prior to 1914 that was to happen in 1914 ... that actually came to pass in 1914!

Look at all of their goofy predictions for 1914 from the 1890's forward. 1900's. Early 1910's. Did ANY of it come to pass as they predicted?

They said ALOT of stuff would happen in 1914. Why don't you take your sweet time and tell us ONE THING THAT THEY GOT RIGHT. Just give us the quote and the source and a date prior to 1914.

I say that 1914 came and went, and NOTHING that they predicted would happen actually happened. NOTHING. However, I can give you a list of a hundred things they got wrong. Poor fella. You can't name ONE that they got right. And these were your anointed brothers, aka jokes, in action. They made fools of themselves. Vindicate them. Tell us something they got right prior to the fact.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/4/2014 3:17:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 5:09:56 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/3/2014 4:58:25 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 4:50:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/3/2014 3:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:04:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

This, out of all that you have sputtered (and I've heard it all, before), is the only thing that I will choose to address. It is clear that you have swallowed the JW brand of christianity hook, line, and sinker... But to tell me that I blame god is sheer stupidity as the result of having ignored my words, almost entirely:
ONE DOES NOT BLAME SOMETHING IN WHICH THEY DO NOT BELIEVE. I don't believe your god exists, so I cannot blame him for anything. No, moron... There is ZERO evidence that the god in the pages of the bible even exists. I was created by two people in love. Your god had nothing to do with it.

Actually it is the scriptural version of Christianity I have, as you put it, swallowed. The fact that the JWs also teach it simply proves they are on the same road as me, or I am on the same road as them I suppose, since they have been on it longer than I.

However, the only one I follow is Christ, and if they do also they good for them.

The only reason I have ever had anything to do with them was because I found that they believe the same things I believe, they did not convert me, they did not need to.

You mean to tell us that you studied your Bible, especially your NT, and wound up in an organization nowhere mentioned in God's Holy Writ - a group which is not organized like the church of the New Testament. I think you shoulda passed 'em by and kept looking.

True they have taught me some things since, but nothing that I didn't find agreed 100% with scripture, and like the Beroeans I checked, carefully, very carefully. Acts 17:11.

They've taught me a thing or two, too. One of them is when they say that have "proof positive", we can take that to mean that they don't have a clue.

I take very seriously the scriptural injunction to make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine. 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I am also well aware of the seriousness of Matthew 713, 14 and 21-23. as well as 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Scripture is, and always has been, for me, the final arbiter in all things to do with God and Christ, and as long as the JWs remain the same as I then I will be forced to support them purely for that reason and no other.

They take scripture very seriously which is why, even though they are often accused of changing the bible to suit their doctrine they have in fact al;ways done the opposite and have continually revised and refined their translation, and brought out improved editions in 1984 and 2013.

.... and they didn't "revise" away their errors, did they? Nope, they kept them intact. Good job!

Ironically the same people who criticise them saying they alter scripture to suit their n doctrine also criticise them for changing their teachings when they find it necessary to. It would seem their critics want it both ways, but it doesn't work like that.

They do both:

(1) They alter the scriptures to suit their human doctrines, and
(2) They propagate ridiculous teachings which are only abandoned when the absurdity is apparent to everyone, including them.

Here's your "changing their teachings"

WatchTowerite: "Armageddon will begin in 1914"
Christian: Y'all are morons. Armageddon was a spiritual battle, not a physical one.
WatchTowerite: Yes, we were morons. 1914 came and went. Opps. We learned our lesson. Armageddon will crank up in 1925.

That's their "learning" for you.

I see you are even inventing dialogue to suit your desires, lol. Just like the one who leads you by the nose you are more than happy to distort truth to make your case.

No Anna that is not their learning. Unlike you they took not e of history and realised that their hopes were premature. 1914 was exactly what they said it was, but it did not lead to the great tribulation and Armageddon as they had hoped and thought.

I think you're a little confused.

I have repeatedly asked for ONE SPECULATION predicted by the WatchTower prior to 1914 that was to happen in 1914 ... that actually came to pass in 1914!

Look at all of their goofy predictions for 1914 from the 1890's forward. 1900's. Early 1910's. Did ANY of it come to pass as they predicted?

They said ALOT of stuff would happen in 1914. Why don't you take your sweet time and tell us ONE THING THAT THEY GOT RIGHT. Just give us the quote and the source and a date prior to 1914.

I say that 1914 came and went, and NOTHING that they predicted would happen actually happened. NOTHING. However, I can give you a list of a hundred things they got wrong. Poor fella. You can't name ONE that they got right. And these were your anointed brothers, aka jokes, in action. They made fools of themselves. Vindicate them. Tell us something they got right prior to the fact.

And I have repeatedly said that their speculations didn't work out. They have never denied that.

The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

There is nothing poor about it. So they got things wrong in interpreting the signs of the times to be more than they were. So? You continue to do just that about the 1st century. Get your own house in order first Anna. You criticise others for making the same mistake you make continually just about a different time.

That is just one of the reasons I have repeatedly called you the hypocrite you truly have shown yourself to be.

Your calling yourself Christian when you refuse to obey any of Christ's orders which do not suit you is another.
annanicole
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5/4/2014 3:54:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 3:17:44 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 5:09:56 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/3/2014 4:58:25 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 4:50:12 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/3/2014 3:02:40 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:04:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/3/2014 5:34:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 7:55:04 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 4/29/2014 12:37:34 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:

The injustice that means that people like you blame God for their own weaknesses, or because of them deny his very existence. Talk about biting the hand that created the very food you eat, and therefore albeit indirectly, feeds you. The very hand that gave us all life in the first place.

This, out of all that you have sputtered (and I've heard it all, before), is the only thing that I will choose to address. It is clear that you have swallowed the JW brand of christianity hook, line, and sinker... But to tell me that I blame god is sheer stupidity as the result of having ignored my words, almost entirely:
ONE DOES NOT BLAME SOMETHING IN WHICH THEY DO NOT BELIEVE. I don't believe your god exists, so I cannot blame him for anything. No, moron... There is ZERO evidence that the god in the pages of the bible even exists. I was created by two people in love. Your god had nothing to do with it.

Actually it is the scriptural version of Christianity I have, as you put it, swallowed. The fact that the JWs also teach it simply proves they are on the same road as me, or I am on the same road as them I suppose, since they have been on it longer than I.

However, the only one I follow is Christ, and if they do also they good for them.

The only reason I have ever had anything to do with them was because I found that they believe the same things I believe, they did not convert me, they did not need to.

You mean to tell us that you studied your Bible, especially your NT, and wound up in an organization nowhere mentioned in God's Holy Writ - a group which is not organized like the church of the New Testament. I think you shoulda passed 'em by and kept looking.

True they have taught me some things since, but nothing that I didn't find agreed 100% with scripture, and like the Beroeans I checked, carefully, very carefully. Acts 17:11.

They've taught me a thing or two, too. One of them is when they say that have "proof positive", we can take that to mean that they don't have a clue.

I take very seriously the scriptural injunction to make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine. 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

I am also well aware of the seriousness of Matthew 713, 14 and 21-23. as well as 2 Corinthians 13:5.

Scripture is, and always has been, for me, the final arbiter in all things to do with God and Christ, and as long as the JWs remain the same as I then I will be forced to support them purely for that reason and no other.

They take scripture very seriously which is why, even though they are often accused of changing the bible to suit their doctrine they have in fact al;ways done the opposite and have continually revised and refined their translation, and brought out improved editions in 1984 and 2013.

.... and they didn't "revise" away their errors, did they? Nope, they kept them intact. Good job!

Ironically the same people who criticise them saying they alter scripture to suit their n doctrine also criticise them for changing their teachings when they find it necessary to. It would seem their critics want it both ways, but it doesn't work like that.

They do both:

(1) They alter the scriptures to suit their human doctrines, and
(2) They propagate ridiculous teachings which are only abandoned when the absurdity is apparent to everyone, including them.

Here's your "changing their teachings"

WatchTowerite: "Armageddon will begin in 1914"
Christian: Y'all are morons. Armageddon was a spiritual battle, not a physical one.
WatchTowerite: Yes, we were morons. 1914 came and went. Opps. We learned our lesson. Armageddon will crank up in 1925.

That's their "learning" for you.

I see you are even inventing dialogue to suit your desires, lol. Just like the one who leads you by the nose you are more than happy to distort truth to make your case.

No Anna that is not their learning. Unlike you they took not e of history and realised that their hopes were premature. 1914 was exactly what they said it was, but it did not lead to the great tribulation and Armageddon as they had hoped and thought.

I think you're a little confused.

I have repeatedly asked for ONE SPECULATION predicted by the WatchTower prior to 1914 that was to happen in 1914 ... that actually came to pass in 1914!

Look at all of their goofy predictions for 1914 from the 1890's forward. 1900's. Early 1910's. Did ANY of it come to pass as they predicted?

They said ALOT of stuff would happen in 1914. Why don't you take your sweet time and tell us ONE THING THAT THEY GOT RIGHT. Just give us the quote and the source and a date prior to 1914.

I say that 1914 came and went, and NOTHING that they predicted would happen actually happened. NOTHING. However, I can give you a list of a hundred things they got wrong. Poor fella. You can't name ONE that they got right. And these were your anointed brothers, aka jokes, in action. They made fools of themselves. Vindicate them. Tell us something they got right prior to the fact.

And I have repeatedly said that their speculations didn't work out. They have never denied that.

The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

But all of their "speculations" were "purely from scriptural sources", too.

Surely they got the part about "Christ will take up His throne" in 1914, right?

Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?

I say you won't do it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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5/4/2014 5:25:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 3:54:10 PM, annanicole wrote:


The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

But all of their "speculations" were "purely from scriptural sources", too.

Surely they got the part about "Christ will take up His throne" in 1914, right?

Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?

I say you won't do it.
I have already shown you the scriptures on which it is based, but I'll happily do so again.

It is based around the"7 times" in Daniel 4, a parallel prophecy to Daniel 2 and like Daniel 2 it points to Christ taking up his rule oever the earth and the events that follow that.

However, while Daniel 2 gives us signs, which you insist on misreading, Daniel 4 foes one further as the following calculations show:

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Yes this was copied and pasted from JW literature, purely because it was the clearest setting out of the workings that I could find, from the numerous sources that came to the same conclusion.

Last time we discussed this you queried the date of 607 BCE. Historians are still arguing over it, but it is what you get when you use biblical Chronology, as I have also shown you before, so I shall stick with the scriptural datings.

Try as I might, I cannot fault the reasoning, though it took me quite a while to accept it fully.

Yes, their ideas were out, but like yours, speculations around scripture is all they proved to be. They too mistook events for the fulfilment of the signs of the times that simply could not be, as it later proved.

At least they admitted their error, you have yet to admit yours.

They couldn't get that one wrong it is in scripture not as a sign to look out for but as a definite prophecy.

There is a difference between prophecy and signs.

The prophecy of Christ taking up his throned was tied to time, even though you needed clues from other parts of scripture to decipher it, as is often the case with prophecy,

The signs of the times are not tied to time just to historical events surrounding the subjects of prophecy.

That is why it was as easy for the JWs to get the "signs of the times" every bit as wrong as you have.

The "signs of the times" in Matthew were based around two different ends. The end of the Jewish system of worship, and the end of Satan's system of things.

The end of the Jewish system of worship was signalled by the destruction of the Temple, and the start of the Diaspora.

The end of Satan's system of things was tied up with Jesus taking up his throne in 1914, as prophesied, and everything else, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, the resurrection and the final test, stem from that, and all take place within the stated 1,000 years of Christ's reign, the 1,000 years after which eh hands the kingdom back to his father.

Again you criticise them for mistakes they have admitted whilst failing to admit your own. Talk about worrying over the splinter in thier eye but ignoring the rafter in your own.

Hypocrite that you are.

Matthew 7:1-5.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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5/5/2014 11:19:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/4/2014 5:25:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/4/2014 3:54:10 PM, annanicole wrote:


The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

But all of their "speculations" were "purely from scriptural sources", too.

Surely they got the part about "Christ will take up His throne" in 1914, right?

Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?

I say you won't do it.
I have already shown you the scriptures on which it is based, but I'll happily do so again.

It is based around the"7 times" in Daniel 4, a parallel prophecy to Daniel 2 and like Daniel 2 it points to Christ taking up his rule oever the earth and the events that follow that.

However, while Daniel 2 gives us signs, which you insist on misreading, Daniel 4 foes one further as the following calculations show:

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Yes this was copied and pasted from JW literature, purely because it was the clearest setting out of the workings that I could find, from the numerous sources that came to the same conclusion.

Last time we discussed this you queried the date of 607 BCE. Historians are still arguing over it, but it is what you get when you use biblical Chronology, as I have also shown you before, so I shall stick with the scriptural datings.

Try as I might, I cannot fault the reasoning, though it took me quite a while to accept it fully.

Yes, their ideas were out, but like yours, speculations around scripture is all they proved to be. They too mistook events for the fulfilment of the signs of the times that simply could not be, as it later proved.

At least they admitted their error, you have yet to admit yours.

They couldn't get that one wrong it is in scripture not as a sign to look out for but as a definite prophecy.

There is a difference between prophecy and signs.

The prophecy of Christ taking up his throned was tied to time, even though you needed clues from other parts of scripture to decipher it, as is often the case with prophecy,

The signs of the times are not tied to time just to historical events surrounding the subjects of prophecy.

That is why it was as easy for the JWs to get the "signs of the times" every bit as wrong as you have.

The "signs of the times" in Matthew were based around two different ends. The end of the Jewish system of worship, and the end of Satan's system of things.

The end of the Jewish system of worship was signalled by the destruction of the Temple, and the start of the Diaspora.

The end of Satan's system of things was tied up with Jesus taking up his throne in 1914, as prophesied, and everything else, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, the resurrection and the final test, stem from that, and all take place within the stated 1,000 years of Christ's reign, the 1,000 years after which eh hands the kingdom back to his father.

Again you criticise them for mistakes they have admitted whilst failing to admit your own. Talk about worrying over the splinter in thier eye but ignoring the rafter in your own.

Hypocrite that you are.

Matthew 7:1-5.

Question: "Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?"

Answer: Didn't even attempt it. Not a shadow of an effort.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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5/5/2014 12:53:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 11:19:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/4/2014 5:25:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/4/2014 3:54:10 PM, annanicole wrote:


The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

But all of their "speculations" were "purely from scriptural sources", too.

Surely they got the part about "Christ will take up His throne" in 1914, right?

Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?

I say you won't do it.
I have already shown you the scriptures on which it is based, but I'll happily do so again.

It is based around the"7 times" in Daniel 4, a parallel prophecy to Daniel 2 and like Daniel 2 it points to Christ taking up his rule oever the earth and the events that follow that.

However, while Daniel 2 gives us signs, which you insist on misreading, Daniel 4 foes one further as the following calculations show:

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Yes this was copied and pasted from JW literature, purely because it was the clearest setting out of the workings that I could find, from the numerous sources that came to the same conclusion.

Last time we discussed this you queried the date of 607 BCE. Historians are still arguing over it, but it is what you get when you use biblical Chronology, as I have also shown you before, so I shall stick with the scriptural datings.

Try as I might, I cannot fault the reasoning, though it took me quite a while to accept it fully.

Yes, their ideas were out, but like yours, speculations around scripture is all they proved to be. They too mistook events for the fulfilment of the signs of the times that simply could not be, as it later proved.

At least they admitted their error, you have yet to admit yours.

They couldn't get that one wrong it is in scripture not as a sign to look out for but as a definite prophecy.

There is a difference between prophecy and signs.

The prophecy of Christ taking up his throned was tied to time, even though you needed clues from other parts of scripture to decipher it, as is often the case with prophecy,

The signs of the times are not tied to time just to historical events surrounding the subjects of prophecy.

That is why it was as easy for the JWs to get the "signs of the times" every bit as wrong as you have.

The "signs of the times" in Matthew were based around two different ends. The end of the Jewish system of worship, and the end of Satan's system of things.

The end of the Jewish system of worship was signalled by the destruction of the Temple, and the start of the Diaspora.

The end of Satan's system of things was tied up with Jesus taking up his throne in 1914, as prophesied, and everything else, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, the resurrection and the final test, stem from that, and all take place within the stated 1,000 years of Christ's reign, the 1,000 years after which eh hands the kingdom back to his father.

Again you criticise them for mistakes they have admitted whilst failing to admit your own. Talk about worrying over the splinter in thier eye but ignoring the rafter in your own.

Hypocrite that you are.

Matthew 7:1-5.


Question: "Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?"

Answer: Didn't even attempt it. Not a shadow of an effort.

I wonder what people think when you say that, nd they have already read the answer I gave?

Have you ever thought about that, or are you stupid enough to believe that people will believe it just because you say it.

True, what I gave you was not copied and pasted from a Watchtower article but from another publication, which I do not currently hold and which is no longer in use.

Also true I did not name the publication, but I will if you like.

"Live forever on a Paradise on Earth" (1989) Chapter 16, Paras 14-21.

I don;t know why I bother however since it is wasted on you because whilst it agrees 100% with scripture it doesn't agree with your doctrine, and we all know you hold that to be more important than scripture.
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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5/5/2014 1:22:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 12:53:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2014 11:19:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/4/2014 5:25:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/4/2014 3:54:10 PM, annanicole wrote:


The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

But all of their "speculations" were "purely from scriptural sources", too.

Surely they got the part about "Christ will take up His throne" in 1914, right?

Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?

I say you won't do it.
I have already shown you the scriptures on which it is based, but I'll happily do so again.

It is based around the"7 times" in Daniel 4, a parallel prophecy to Daniel 2 and like Daniel 2 it points to Christ taking up his rule oever the earth and the events that follow that.

However, while Daniel 2 gives us signs, which you insist on misreading, Daniel 4 foes one further as the following calculations show:

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Yes this was copied and pasted from JW literature, purely because it was the clearest setting out of the workings that I could find, from the numerous sources that came to the same conclusion.

Last time we discussed this you queried the date of 607 BCE. Historians are still arguing over it, but it is what you get when you use biblical Chronology, as I have also shown you before, so I shall stick with the scriptural datings.

Try as I might, I cannot fault the reasoning, though it took me quite a while to accept it fully.

Yes, their ideas were out, but like yours, speculations around scripture is all they proved to be. They too mistook events for the fulfilment of the signs of the times that simply could not be, as it later proved.

At least they admitted their error, you have yet to admit yours.

They couldn't get that one wrong it is in scripture not as a sign to look out for but as a definite prophecy.

There is a difference between prophecy and signs.

The prophecy of Christ taking up his throned was tied to time, even though you needed clues from other parts of scripture to decipher it, as is often the case with prophecy,

The signs of the times are not tied to time just to historical events surrounding the subjects of prophecy.

That is why it was as easy for the JWs to get the "signs of the times" every bit as wrong as you have.

The "signs of the times" in Matthew were based around two different ends. The end of the Jewish system of worship, and the end of Satan's system of things.

The end of the Jewish system of worship was signalled by the destruction of the Temple, and the start of the Diaspora.

The end of Satan's system of things was tied up with Jesus taking up his throne in 1914, as prophesied, and everything else, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, the resurrection and the final test, stem from that, and all take place within the stated 1,000 years of Christ's reign, the 1,000 years after which eh hands the kingdom back to his father.

Again you criticise them for mistakes they have admitted whilst failing to admit your own. Talk about worrying over the splinter in thier eye but ignoring the rafter in your own.

Hypocrite that you are.

Matthew 7:1-5.


Question: "Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?"

Answer: Didn't even attempt it. Not a shadow of an effort.

I wonder what people think when you say that, nd they have already read the answer I gave?

Have you ever thought about that, or are you stupid enough to believe that people will believe it just because you say it.

True, what I gave you was not copied and pasted from a Watchtower article but from another publication, which I do not currently hold and which is no longer in use.

Also true I did not name the publication, but I will if you like.

"Live forever on a Paradise on Earth" (1989) Chapter 16, Paras 14-21.

I don;t know why I bother however since it is wasted on you because whilst it agrees 100% with scripture it doesn't agree with your doctrine, and we all know you hold that to be more important than scripture.

Listen, you know good and well that I requested a quote from the WatchTower, whether book, magazine, pamphlet, or whatever, in which they stated PRIOR TO 1914 that Jesus Christ would "take up His throne" IN 1914. You also know that they NEVER TAUGHT SUCH A THING prior to 1914. For forty years, they had prophesied that 1914 would be the END - that 1914 would signal Armageddon. They taught, based upon the same calculations that you are trying to use, that Christ invisibly returned in 1874 and ... get this good ... TOOK UP HIS THRONE IN 1878.

Once again, if you think you can find that the WatchTower said, PRIOR TO 1914, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914, then BY ALL MEANS, do it. I'd love to see it.

There is no need at all in you copying and pasting the nonsense they are spewing NOW. They proved, beyond all doubt, based upon the very numbers, chronology, and calculations that you are now using that CHRIST RETURNED IN 1874 and took up His throne in 1878. Their calculations back then make just as much sense as yours do now.

So FIND IT.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,784
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5/5/2014 1:38:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 12:53:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2014 11:19:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/4/2014 5:25:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/4/2014 3:54:10 PM, annanicole wrote:


The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

But all of their "speculations" were "purely from scriptural sources", too.

Surely they got the part about "Christ will take up His throne" in 1914, right?

Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?

I say you won't do it.
I have already shown you the scriptures on which it is based, but I'll happily do so again.

It is based around the"7 times" in Daniel 4, a parallel prophecy to Daniel 2 and like Daniel 2 it points to Christ taking up his rule oever the earth and the events that follow that.

However, while Daniel 2 gives us signs, which you insist on misreading, Daniel 4 foes one further as the following calculations show:

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Yes this was copied and pasted from JW literature, purely because it was the clearest setting out of the workings that I could find, from the numerous sources that came to the same conclusion.

Last time we discussed this you queried the date of 607 BCE. Historians are still arguing over it, but it is what you get when you use biblical Chronology, as I have also shown you before, so I shall stick with the scriptural datings.

Try as I might, I cannot fault the reasoning, though it took me quite a while to accept it fully.

Yes, their ideas were out, but like yours, speculations around scripture is all they proved to be. They too mistook events for the fulfilment of the signs of the times that simply could not be, as it later proved.

At least they admitted their error, you have yet to admit yours.

They couldn't get that one wrong it is in scripture not as a sign to look out for but as a definite prophecy.

There is a difference between prophecy and signs.

The prophecy of Christ taking up his throned was tied to time, even though you needed clues from other parts of scripture to decipher it, as is often the case with prophecy,

The signs of the times are not tied to time just to historical events surrounding the subjects of prophecy.

That is why it was as easy for the JWs to get the "signs of the times" every bit as wrong as you have.

The "signs of the times" in Matthew were based around two different ends. The end of the Jewish system of worship, and the end of Satan's system of things.

The end of the Jewish system of worship was signalled by the destruction of the Temple, and the start of the Diaspora.

The end of Satan's system of things was tied up with Jesus taking up his throne in 1914, as prophesied, and everything else, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, the resurrection and the final test, stem from that, and all take place within the stated 1,000 years of Christ's reign, the 1,000 years after which eh hands the kingdom back to his father.

Again you criticise them for mistakes they have admitted whilst failing to admit your own. Talk about worrying over the splinter in thier eye but ignoring the rafter in your own.

Hypocrite that you are.

Matthew 7:1-5.


Question: "Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?"

Answer: Didn't even attempt it. Not a shadow of an effort.

I wonder what people think when you say that, nd they have already read the answer I gave?

Have you ever thought about that, or are you stupid enough to believe that people will believe it just because you say it.

I had to get yet another laugh out of that. Man, oh, man! So they "predicted" that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914 .... but they "predicted" it AFTER 1914? Is that what you are trying to tell us? Then what was all that stuff they predicted prior to 1914? Could they not count? What happened to all of their 1874 calculations? What happened to Christ "assuming His throne" in 1878? The prophesies haven't changed. The method of "figuring" hasn't changed.

And the plain truth of the matter is that the WatchTower NEVER ONCE said, prior to 1914, that Jesus Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914. Why not? Because they taught that He has already taken it up! He did that back in 1878, remember?

You look to 1914 as if they actually got something right. No, they didn't. Not by a long shot. That's why when we request a statement from WatchTower materials - a statement made prior to 1914 - that Jesus Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914, you ... produce ... nothing. Nada. Nil. You can't.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
MadCornishBiker
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5/12/2014 1:54:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/5/2014 1:38:36 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/5/2014 12:53:02 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/5/2014 11:19:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/4/2014 5:25:06 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/4/2014 3:54:10 PM, annanicole wrote:


The fact that Christ took up his throne in 1914 as scripture prophesied was not, and is not a speculation, that is purely from scriptural sources, as I have shown you, and that happened, as history indicates, if not proves unless you accept the evidence it presents us with as such.

But all of their "speculations" were "purely from scriptural sources", too.

Surely they got the part about "Christ will take up His throne" in 1914, right?

Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?

I say you won't do it.
I have already shown you the scriptures on which it is based, but I'll happily do so again.

It is based around the"7 times" in Daniel 4, a parallel prophecy to Daniel 2 and like Daniel 2 it points to Christ taking up his rule oever the earth and the events that follow that.

However, while Daniel 2 gives us signs, which you insist on misreading, Daniel 4 foes one further as the following calculations show:

CALCULATING THE "SEVEN TIMES"

"Seven times" = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years

A Biblical "time," or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2,"3; 12:6,"14)

In the fulfillment of the "seven times" each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)

Early October, 607"B.C.E., to December 31,"607"B.C.E.= 1/4 year

January 1,"606"B.C.E., to December 31,"1"B.C.E. = 606 years

January 1,"1"C.E., to December 31,"1913 = 1,913 years

January 1,"1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years

Yes this was copied and pasted from JW literature, purely because it was the clearest setting out of the workings that I could find, from the numerous sources that came to the same conclusion.

Last time we discussed this you queried the date of 607 BCE. Historians are still arguing over it, but it is what you get when you use biblical Chronology, as I have also shown you before, so I shall stick with the scriptural datings.

Try as I might, I cannot fault the reasoning, though it took me quite a while to accept it fully.

Yes, their ideas were out, but like yours, speculations around scripture is all they proved to be. They too mistook events for the fulfilment of the signs of the times that simply could not be, as it later proved.

At least they admitted their error, you have yet to admit yours.

They couldn't get that one wrong it is in scripture not as a sign to look out for but as a definite prophecy.

There is a difference between prophecy and signs.

The prophecy of Christ taking up his throned was tied to time, even though you needed clues from other parts of scripture to decipher it, as is often the case with prophecy,

The signs of the times are not tied to time just to historical events surrounding the subjects of prophecy.

That is why it was as easy for the JWs to get the "signs of the times" every bit as wrong as you have.

The "signs of the times" in Matthew were based around two different ends. The end of the Jewish system of worship, and the end of Satan's system of things.

The end of the Jewish system of worship was signalled by the destruction of the Temple, and the start of the Diaspora.

The end of Satan's system of things was tied up with Jesus taking up his throne in 1914, as prophesied, and everything else, the Great Tribulation and Armageddon, the resurrection and the final test, stem from that, and all take place within the stated 1,000 years of Christ's reign, the 1,000 years after which eh hands the kingdom back to his father.

Again you criticise them for mistakes they have admitted whilst failing to admit your own. Talk about worrying over the splinter in thier eye but ignoring the rafter in your own.

Hypocrite that you are.

Matthew 7:1-5.


Question: "Could you at least find that one for us: find a WatchTower article in which they predicted, based upon prophesy, that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914?"

Answer: Didn't even attempt it. Not a shadow of an effort.

I wonder what people think when you say that, nd they have already read the answer I gave?

Have you ever thought about that, or are you stupid enough to believe that people will believe it just because you say it.

I had to get yet another laugh out of that. Man, oh, man! So they "predicted" that Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914 .... but they "predicted" it AFTER 1914? Is that what you are trying to tell us? Then what was all that stuff they predicted prior to 1914? Could they not count? What happened to all of their 1874 calculations? What happened to Christ "assuming His throne" in 1878? The prophesies haven't changed. The method of "figuring" hasn't changed.

And the plain truth of the matter is that the WatchTower NEVER ONCE said, prior to 1914, that Jesus Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914. Why not? Because they taught that He has already taken it up! He did that back in 1878, remember?

You look to 1914 as if they actually got something right. No, they didn't. Not by a long shot. That's why when we request a statement from WatchTower materials - a statement made prior to 1914 - that Jesus Christ would "take up His throne" in 1914, you ... produce ... nothing. Nada. Nil. You can't.

Actually it was God who predicted it through Daniel.
Idealist
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5/12/2014 11:46:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 6:23:45 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2014 1:20:18 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I agree, injustice must be fought. But why does this belief require a belief in OP's god?

Because only he can remove all injustice, including sickness and death which is indiscriminate and not subject to justice. Ask any disabled person if their disability is fair.

As a disabled person I will clearly say that "fair" has nothing to do with it. It's like asking if it's fair that your hair is brown. We each have the life we have, and it's what we decide to do with that life that makes us who we are.

Death and illness are the two injustices that man will never conquer, but which God will bring to an end.

This is something you cannot know. You believe it is true because you've been told it is true, but it is very possible that man might have the capacity some day to conquer death. Illness is another matter, because it has two sides. What is "ill" to us is just normal biological function to what is making us ill. For a bacteria to invade our bodies is no more evil than for us to eat a piece of bacon.
MadCornishBiker
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5/13/2014 4:17:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 11:46:50 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/2/2014 6:23:45 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 4/29/2014 1:20:18 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
I agree, injustice must be fought. But why does this belief require a belief in OP's god?

Because only he can remove all injustice, including sickness and death which is indiscriminate and not subject to justice. Ask any disabled person if their disability is fair.

I am also disabled, though not seriously enough to require anything more than the assistance of Low Level Disability Allowance support. Ther is no need for anyone to convince me that life is unfair, for that and many other reasons, and in fact that is the basis of my point.

We were not created to be like this, or to live this kind of life. That is all down to the rebellion started by Satan and which will in due time be ended by God's son, restoring everything back to the original plan in which everything really will be fair, for all.

That, and the plan to restore us to the origin al plan is the whole focus of the bible, from Genesis to Revelation. As important, nay vital, as Jesus faithful sacrifice is it was still only a part of God's plan for restoration of the original plan.


As a disabled person I will clearly say that "fair" has nothing to do with it. It's like asking if it's fair that your hair is brown. We each have the life we have, and it's what we decide to do with that life that makes us who we are.

Death and illness are the two injustices that man will never conquer, but which God will bring to an end.

This is something you cannot know. You believe it is true because you've been told it is true, but it is very possible that man might have the capacity some day to conquer death. Illness is another matter, because it has two sides. What is "ill" to us is just normal biological function to what is making us ill. For a bacteria to invade our bodies is no more evil than for us to eat a piece of bacon.

You are very wrong there. I do know it is true, and have, albeit in a limited way, experienced it.

I have gone way past belief, to complete and utter conviction, slowly but surely, and am now more than ready to give my life to remove the injustice that is constantly being heaped on God and his son, even by those who claim top be Christian, and to point people to the long and difficult road to that final, truly fair and peaceful life that is to come on our once more beautiful than it still is, earth.

I have learned, seen and experienced, albeit in very small ways, the truth of everything the bible teaches about God, his intentions for the earth, and how they can finally be achieved, with minimal help from we humans. All we have to do is be prepared to cooperate with God in the development of his plan. He will do everything else, initially through his son, but eventually himself.

Only by, finally, removing the injustice from God's name and purposes can we eventually experience true justice for all, because only he can bring that about. And he will, no matter how few of us initially cooperate.

Oh no, I do not just believe, I am totally and utterly convinced, and so will any be who wholeheartedly cooperate with God's plan, at least once they have proven their heartfelt sincerity to God's satisfaction. After all, why should he not expect us to prove ourselves, he already has, in so9 many ways, including risking the life of his own son for our sakes.
bulproof
Posts: 25,210
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5/13/2014 4:50:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/13/2014 4:17:30 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
We were not created to be like this, or to live this kind of life

You deliberately disabled yourself? What for a pension? The intelligence was well disabled prior, apparently!
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin