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Romans 8, 1 Corinthians

matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now
i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 11:15:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

Not if the below verses are true. I don't view Christianity as tribalism because in theory I know it's true that evil cannot exist within good nor darkness within light. We have to come into that light, it's not tribalism it's naturally logical.


2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


Not if we assume Christianity a fact, like mentioned.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

What is it that you disagree with about the principle above, it's simple...

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

Why? if the below verse is true...

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

Not if we assume Christianity fact, like mentioned.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

Huh?

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now

Meaning when your flesh dies...

i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

Yes He has, through scripture and revelation. You are spiritually minded so you can't receive from God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

Huh?

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

So says the one who doesn't receive from God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 11:27:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:15:34 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

Not if the below verses are true. I don't view Christianity as tribalism because in theory I know it's true that evil cannot exist within good nor darkness within light. We have to come into that light, it's not tribalism it's naturally logical.


2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


Not if we assume Christianity a fact, like mentioned.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

What is it that you disagree with about the principle above, it's simple...

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

Why? if the below verse is true...

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

Not if we assume Christianity fact, like mentioned.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

Huh?

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now

Meaning when your flesh dies...

i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

Yes it does, it means if you are led by the Spirit of God, you are his sons.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

Yes He has, through scripture and revelation. You are spiritually minded so you can't receive from God.

Correction here on my part, I meant you are NOT spiritually minded, which is where we receive from God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

Huh?

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

So says the one who doesn't receive from God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/30/2014 11:45:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now
i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

Excellent point by point rebuttal and arguments perplexed! You obviously put a lot of time and effort into it.

Which leads to the really important issue once more: What is motivating you to spend your life doing this? I think we both know!

And once again, it's not your fault and mommy was irrational and motherhood would have eventually trumped it all had you held her feet to the fire long enough. Try again! This forum isn't going to make it happen for you.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/30/2014 12:16:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:15:34 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

Not if the below verses are true. I don't view Christianity as tribalism because in theory I know it's true that evil cannot exist within good nor darkness within light. We have to come into that light, it's not tribalism it's naturally logical.
1. there is no criteria that would establish jesus made you free, you need to separate your will of believing from yourself in order to do that...and sorry that is not possible to prove.
2. are you suggesting that unbelievers are of the dark wicked and evil?


2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


Not if we assume Christianity a fact, like mentioned.
i was born whole....no one is in a position to tell me other wise...
i believe i have earned that right simply because i am alive.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

What is it that you disagree with about the principle above, it's simple...
yes it is very simple to believe you are not condemned because you believe you are not...it's called wishful thinking, very simple.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

Why? if the below verse is true...because all i can go on is my integrity...if god holds that against me, what is the point?

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

Not if we assume Christianity fact, like mentioned.
again if christianity were true then god is a tyrant.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

Huh?
still doesn't change the fact that believers can do something i cannot...there is nothing that separates our capabilities....other than the willingness to be wishful thinkers, so what?


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now

Meaning when your flesh dies...
yes...that is all we know.

i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

Yes He has, through scripture and revelation. You are spiritually minded so you can't receive from God.
no he hasn't.. which god are you referring to...muslims claim the very same thing?
if god exists in a realm we can only believe exists, as the ONLY way of determining if any claim is true is through empirical evidence, and our supposed eternal soul depends on our ability to ignore that then the christian god is a tyrant

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

Huh?
the appeal to faith is an appeal to gullibility

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

So says the one who doesn't receive from God.
so what can a believer do that a non believer can't...appeal to gullibility...???
great, good for them...i'll pass.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/30/2014 12:21:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Perplexed, Maybe one thing a believer can do that you can't do is find peace with him/herself? Will you have to go back to being a believer to find it?

I would recommend taking brother neutrals gospel and refining it even further so that it suits a rational person such as you.

Or, on the other hand, go talk to your mommy about the problem. Maybe she's ready.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 12:28:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 12:16:08 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:15:34 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

Not if the below verses are true. I don't view Christianity as tribalism because in theory I know it's true that evil cannot exist within good nor darkness within light. We have to come into that light, it's not tribalism it's naturally logical.
1. there is no criteria that would establish jesus made you free, you need to separate your will of believing from yourself in order to do that...and sorry that is not possible to prove.
2. are you suggesting that unbelievers are of the dark wicked and evil?


2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


Not if we assume Christianity a fact, like mentioned.
i was born whole....no one is in a position to tell me other wise...
i believe i have earned that right simply because i am alive.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

What is it that you disagree with about the principle above, it's simple...
yes it is very simple to believe you are not condemned because you believe you are not...it's called wishful thinking, very simple.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

Why? if the below verse is true...because all i can go on is my integrity...if god holds that against me, what is the point?

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

Not if we assume Christianity fact, like mentioned.
again if christianity were true then god is a tyrant.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

Huh?
still doesn't change the fact that believers can do something i cannot...there is nothing that separates our capabilities....other than the willingness to be wishful thinkers, so what?


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now

Meaning when your flesh dies...
yes...that is all we know.

i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

Yes He has, through scripture and revelation. You are spiritually minded so you can't receive from God.
no he hasn't.. which god are you referring to...muslims claim the very same thing?
if god exists in a realm we can only believe exists, as the ONLY way of determining if any claim is true is through empirical evidence, and our supposed eternal soul depends on our ability to ignore that then the christian god is a tyrant

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

Huh?
the appeal to faith is an appeal to gullibility

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

So says the one who doesn't receive from God.
so what can a believer do that a non believer can't...appeal to gullibility...???
great, good for them...i'll pass.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do

So far you have demonstrated that you are unable to meet the requirements for the very reason I posted this, so it is a waste of my time to respond. The point was to argue from the perspective that the Biblical God exists, I already know what you THINK as a non believer. I know it is a repulsive thing for you to PRETEND that the basic principles of Christianity are true but nevertheless thanks for your honesty and patients.
matt.mcguire88
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4/30/2014 12:32:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Anyone else with a sharp mind, that knows Christianity to where I don't have to explain everything lol? I'm interested in all opinions thank you!
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/30/2014 12:38:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 12:32:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Anyone else with a sharp mind, that knows Christianity to where I don't have to explain everything lol? I'm interested in all opinions thank you!

Matt, read my posts to perplexed if you want to corner her and shut her up. I've found a way of winning where she needs to try to ignore me.

She is doable! Meaning, that she is likely convertible back to the flock. you just have to understand why she left in the first place.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/30/2014 12:45:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:27:00 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:15:34 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

Not if the below verses are true. I don't view Christianity as tribalism because in theory I know it's true that evil cannot exist within good nor darkness within light. We have to come into that light, it's not tribalism it's naturally logical.


2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


Not if we assume Christianity a fact, like mentioned.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

What is it that you disagree with about the principle above, it's simple...

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

Why? if the below verse is true...

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

Not if we assume Christianity fact, like mentioned.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

Huh?

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now

Meaning when your flesh dies...

i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

Yes it does, it means if you are led by the Spirit of God, you are his sons.
can you show me the difference between the spirit of god and your wishful thinking?
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/30/2014 12:47:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:45:41 AM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now
i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

Excellent point by point rebuttal and arguments perplexed! You obviously put a lot of time and effort into it.

Which leads to the really important issue once more: What is motivating you to spend your life doing this?

because i care and i want people to know who they are....
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
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4/30/2014 12:47:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Romans and corinthians and americans and Ethiopians. god and jesus and Peter Pan and the celestial teapot and the tooth fairy.

And santa for a seasonal twist to reality.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 12:48:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 12:38:14 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:32:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Anyone else with a sharp mind, that knows Christianity to where I don't have to explain everything lol? I'm interested in all opinions thank you!

Matt, read my posts to perplexed if you want to corner her and shut her up. I've found a way of winning where she needs to try to ignore me.

She is doable! Meaning, that she is likely convertible back to the flock. you just have to understand why she left in the first place.

Lol okay I'll check it out when I get a chance.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/30/2014 12:49:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 12:28:39 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:16:08 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:15:34 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

Not if the below verses are true. I don't view Christianity as tribalism because in theory I know it's true that evil cannot exist within good nor darkness within light. We have to come into that light, it's not tribalism it's naturally logical.
1. there is no criteria that would establish jesus made you free, you need to separate your will of believing from yourself in order to do that...and sorry that is not possible to prove.
2. are you suggesting that unbelievers are of the dark wicked and evil?


2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


Not if we assume Christianity a fact, like mentioned.
i was born whole....no one is in a position to tell me other wise...
i believe i have earned that right simply because i am alive.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

What is it that you disagree with about the principle above, it's simple...
yes it is very simple to believe you are not condemned because you believe you are not...it's called wishful thinking, very simple.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

Why? if the below verse is true...because all i can go on is my integrity...if god holds that against me, what is the point?

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

Not if we assume Christianity fact, like mentioned.
again if christianity were true then god is a tyrant.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

Huh?
still doesn't change the fact that believers can do something i cannot...there is nothing that separates our capabilities....other than the willingness to be wishful thinkers, so what?


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now

Meaning when your flesh dies...
yes...that is all we know.

i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

Yes He has, through scripture and revelation. You are spiritually minded so you can't receive from God.
no he hasn't.. which god are you referring to...muslims claim the very same thing?
if god exists in a realm we can only believe exists, as the ONLY way of determining if any claim is true is through empirical evidence, and our supposed eternal soul depends on our ability to ignore that then the christian god is a tyrant

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

Huh?
the appeal to faith is an appeal to gullibility

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

So says the one who doesn't receive from God.
so what can a believer do that a non believer can't...appeal to gullibility...???
great, good for them...i'll pass.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do


So far you have demonstrated that you are unable to meet the requirements for the very reason I posted this

i see so you just want to masturbate....ok...go for it.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 1:00:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 12:49:00 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:28:39 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:16:08 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:15:34 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:34:07 AM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:22:44 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Atheists or non-believers can I get you to try something a little different? I'm not gonna lead anyone into anything I just wanted your honest opinions....
Could you for a moment just ASSUME that the Biblical God exists and that it's spiritual foundation and teaching are accurate and true, that being that evil and good exist within spiritual forces in an eternal world. Can you read the following as if the basis of Christianity were fact and tell me what you think and what about it you may agree or disagree with, thanks!!!

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

i see tribalism...as the condition of not being condemned is believing you are not while those that are skeptical are

Not if the below verses are true. I don't view Christianity as tribalism because in theory I know it's true that evil cannot exist within good nor darkness within light. We have to come into that light, it's not tribalism it's naturally logical.
1. there is no criteria that would establish jesus made you free, you need to separate your will of believing from yourself in order to do that...and sorry that is not possible to prove.
2. are you suggesting that unbelievers are of the dark wicked and evil?


2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
sorry i was born whole not broken


Not if we assume Christianity a fact, like mentioned

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
you mean like believing one is not condemned because they believe they are not?

What is it that you disagree with about the principle above, it's simple...
yes it is very simple to believe you are not condemned because you believe you are not...it's called wishful thinking, very simple.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
then god is a tyrant

Why? if the below verse is true...because all i can go on is my integrity...if god holds that against me, what is the point?

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
sorry all i have to rely on is my integrity and i cannot pretend to believe god would hold that against me

Not if we assume Christianity fact, like mentioned.
again if christianity were true then god is a tyrant.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
right...but you see i wasn't born broken, i was born whole.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
still doesn't change the fact that believes can do something i cannot...

Huh?
still doesn't change the fact that believers can do something i cannot...there is nothing that separates our capabilities....other than the willingness to be wishful thinkers, so what?


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

i am alive to live life right here and right now

Meaning when your flesh dies...
yes...that is all we know.

i am not living to die

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
means nothing

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
wouldn't it be the fear of death that would cause someone to believe they are not condemned because they believe it to be so?

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
again there is nothing a believer can do that cannot as an unbeleiver


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
no he hasn't..

Yes He has, through scripture and revelation. You are spiritually minded so you can't receive from God.
no he hasn't.. which god are you referring to...muslims claim the very same thing?
if god exists in a realm we can only believe exists, as the ONLY way of determining if any claim is true is through empirical evidence, and our supposed eternal soul depends on our ability to ignore that then the christian god is a tyrant

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
so says the person who constantly makes the appeal to gullibility...

Huh?
the appeal to faith is an appeal to gullibility

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
again there is nothing a believer can do that i cannot as an unbeliever

So says the one who doesn't receive from God.
so what can a believer do that a non believer can't...appeal to gullibility...???
great, good for them...i'll pass.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do


So far you have demonstrated that you are unable to meet the requirements for the very reason I posted this

i see so you just want to masturbate....ok...go for it.

No my friend, stimulate not masturbate lol
perplexed
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4/30/2014 1:33:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 1:00:52 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do

So far you have demonstrated that you are unable to meet the requirements for the very reason I posted this

i see so you just want to masturbate....ok...go for it.

No my friend, stimulate not masturbate lol

well then why do you want to participate in a one sided conversation?
the appeal, "supposing every thing in this passage is true", is still subject to scrutiny...
you still failed to demonstrate why you disagree with:
"there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches,"

so yes you are masturbating. your intent was not to have a conversation, which takes 2 POV's that would entail a bit of tension, but you are all about the pronouncement....the release, basically you are only concerned with the ecstasy of your wishful thinking...

so what? nothing special about that...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 1:44:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 1:33:28 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 1:00:52 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do


So far you have demonstrated that you are unable to meet the requirements for the very reason I posted this

i see so you just want to masturbate....ok...go for it.

No my friend, stimulate not masturbate lol

well then why do you want to participate in a one sided conversation?
the appeal, "supposing every thing in this passage is true", is still subject to scrutiny...
you still failed to demonstrate why you disagree with:
"there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches,"

so yes you are masturbating. your intent was not to have a conversation, which takes 2 POV's that would entail a bit of tension, but you are all about the pronouncement....the release, basically you are only concerned with the ecstasy of your wishful thinking...

so what? nothing special about that...

Take it how you wish :)
perplexed
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4/30/2014 1:49:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 1:44:24 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 1:33:28 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 1:00:52 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do


So far you have demonstrated that you are unable to meet the requirements for the very reason I posted this

i see so you just want to masturbate....ok...go for it.

No my friend, stimulate not masturbate lol

well then why do you want to participate in a one sided conversation?
the appeal, "supposing every thing in this passage is true", is still subject to scrutiny...
you still failed to demonstrate why you disagree with:
"there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches,"

so yes you are masturbating. your intent was not to have a conversation, which takes 2 POV's that would entail a bit of tension, but you are all about the pronouncement....the release, basically you are only concerned with the ecstasy of your wishful thinking...

so what? nothing special about that...

Take it how you wish :)

masturbate away then....i just advise not to do it in public....
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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4/30/2014 3:25:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 1:49:42 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 1:44:24 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 1:33:28 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 1:00:52 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches, as that is ultimately up to the individuals personal integrity...

I disagree with the first statement
demonstrate why you do


So far you have demonstrated that you are unable to meet the requirements for the very reason I posted this

i see so you just want to masturbate....ok...go for it.

No my friend, stimulate not masturbate lol

well then why do you want to participate in a one sided conversation?
the appeal, "supposing every thing in this passage is true", is still subject to scrutiny...
you still failed to demonstrate why you disagree with:
"there is no way you can differentiate between wishful thinking and what the holy spirit teaches,"

so yes you are masturbating. your intent was not to have a conversation, which takes 2 POV's that would entail a bit of tension, but you are all about the pronouncement....the release, basically you are only concerned with the ecstasy of your wishful thinking...

so what? nothing special about that...

Take it how you wish :)

masturbate away then....i just advise not to do it in public....

Thanks I'll stick with stimulation though, no masturbating required.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/30/2014 3:34:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.

I have no idea what "it" is, because there is just NO WAY that one person could so consistently combine ignorance with stupidity. Just no way. I think her goal is to just toss out nonsensical statements in order for people to type out these long, precise replies - then about the time nonsensical statement #1 is disproved, she'll come up with nonsensical statement #2, and on and on into the double digits.

Here's how it went last time:

1. "The Israelite men were never punished for their sexual sins with the Midianite women".
2. "God 'sanctioned' the rape of virgin Midianite girls."
3 "God 'sanctioned' the murder of baby boys."

Now this person has passed her genes on to a child. She probably told her child that Jack and Jill went up the hill to screw, or better yet, that Jack was really Jacqueline - and that the two little girls went up the hill to fondle each other. But it was all ok because Jill's mom was a Christian who thought it was ok to murder baby boys. Anyway, when someone points out that her analysis of Jack and Jill is pure nonsense, she's not discouraged. No, no, no. She'll just point out that Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Why was he on the wall? Why, he was peeking over into the girl's bathroom. And he got all nervous and fell because his father was a Christian whose god "sanctioned" raping virgins. Crazy as a loon.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/30/2014 10:19:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 3:34:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.

I have no idea what "it" is, because there is just NO WAY that one person could so consistently combine ignorance with stupidity. Just no way. I think her goal is to just toss out nonsensical statements in order for people to type out these long, precise replies - then about the time nonsensical statement #1 is disproved, she'll come up with nonsensical statement #2, and on and on into the double digits.

Here's how it went last time:

1. "The Israelite men were never punished for their sexual sins with the Midianite women".
2. "God 'sanctioned' the rape of virgin Midianite girls."
3 "God 'sanctioned' the murder of baby boys."

Now this person has passed her genes on to a child. She probably told her child that Jack and Jill went up the hill to screw, or better yet, that Jack was really Jacqueline - and that the two little girls went up the hill to fondle each other. But it was all ok because Jill's mom was a Christian who thought it was ok to murder baby boys. Anyway, when someone points out that her analysis of Jack and Jill is pure nonsense, she's not discouraged. No, no, no. She'll just point out that Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Why was he on the wall? Why, he was peeking over into the girl's bathroom. And he got all nervous and fell because his father was a Christian whose god "sanctioned" raping virgins. Crazy as a loon.

31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord"s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba"the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army"the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds"who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord"s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord"s part. 30 From the Israelites" half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord"s tabernacle." 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

.......

1. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful
no mention of baby boys...because they were murdered.
2 and 3: verse... 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

plunder: typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder
synonymous with pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape.
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/30/2014 10:36:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 10:19:37 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 3:34:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.

I have no idea what "it" is, because there is just NO WAY that one person could so consistently combine ignorance with stupidity. Just no way. I think her goal is to just toss out nonsensical statements in order for people to type out these long, precise replies - then about the time nonsensical statement #1 is disproved, she'll come up with nonsensical statement #2, and on and on into the double digits.

Here's how it went last time:

1. "The Israelite men were never punished for their sexual sins with the Midianite women".
2. "God 'sanctioned' the rape of virgin Midianite girls."
3 "God 'sanctioned' the murder of baby boys."

Now this person has passed her genes on to a child. She probably told her child that Jack and Jill went up the hill to screw, or better yet, that Jack was really Jacqueline - and that the two little girls went up the hill to fondle each other. But it was all ok because Jill's mom was a Christian who thought it was ok to murder baby boys. Anyway, when someone points out that her analysis of Jack and Jill is pure nonsense, she's not discouraged. No, no, no. She'll just point out that Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Why was he on the wall? Why, he was peeking over into the girl's bathroom. And he got all nervous and fell because his father was a Christian whose god "sanctioned" raping virgins. Crazy as a loon.


31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord"s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba"the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army"the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds"who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord"s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord"s part. 30 From the Israelites" half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord"s tabernacle." 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

.......



1. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful
no mention of baby boys...because they were murdered.
2 and 3: verse... 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

plunder: typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder
synonymous with pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape.

Look, do you plan to present any evidence that God ordered any mercy for the Midianite virgins or ordered the extermination of the Midianite male young.

We all know that God ordered Moses to do battle against the Midianites. We all are all aware that at some point after the battle, God instructed Moses as to how to divide up the plunder. Nobody ever questioned that.

What we can't figure out is that when Moses commanded his army to show mercy to the Midianite virgins who had not participated in the sexual activities with the Israelite men, exactly how did you determine that God spoke to Moses and told him to do so?

The Bible is usually pretty clear when stating what God told this person or that person to do. This chapter is no different.

Moses gave the directive to kill all the young males. That's what the scripture says. We are looking for something that says that Moses received this instruction from God, that He "ordered" it or "sanctioned" it.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
perplexed
Posts: 863
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4/30/2014 10:49:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 10:36:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:19:37 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 3:34:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.

I have no idea what "it" is, because there is just NO WAY that one person could so consistently combine ignorance with stupidity. Just no way. I think her goal is to just toss out nonsensical statements in order for people to type out these long, precise replies - then about the time nonsensical statement #1 is disproved, she'll come up with nonsensical statement #2, and on and on into the double digits.

Here's how it went last time:

1. "The Israelite men were never punished for their sexual sins with the Midianite women".
2. "God 'sanctioned' the rape of virgin Midianite girls."
3 "God 'sanctioned' the murder of baby boys."

Now this person has passed her genes on to a child. She probably told her child that Jack and Jill went up the hill to screw, or better yet, that Jack was really Jacqueline - and that the two little girls went up the hill to fondle each other. But it was all ok because Jill's mom was a Christian who thought it was ok to murder baby boys. Anyway, when someone points out that her analysis of Jack and Jill is pure nonsense, she's not discouraged. No, no, no. She'll just point out that Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Why was he on the wall? Why, he was peeking over into the girl's bathroom. And he got all nervous and fell because his father was a Christian whose god "sanctioned" raping virgins. Crazy as a loon.


31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord"s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba"the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army"the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds"who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord"s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord"s part. 30 From the Israelites" half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord"s tabernacle." 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

.......



1. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful
no mention of baby boys...because they were murdered.
2 and 3: verse... 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

plunder: typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder
synonymous with pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape.

Look, do you plan to present any evidence that God ordered any mercy for the Midianite virgins or ordered the extermination of the Midianite male young.

i did...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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4/30/2014 11:03:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 10:36:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:19:37 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 3:34:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.

I have no idea what "it" is, because there is just NO WAY that one person could so consistently combine ignorance with stupidity. Just no way. I think her goal is to just toss out nonsensical statements in order for people to type out these long, precise replies - then about the time nonsensical statement #1 is disproved, she'll come up with nonsensical statement #2, and on and on into the double digits.

Here's how it went last time:

1. "The Israelite men were never punished for their sexual sins with the Midianite women".
2. "God 'sanctioned' the rape of virgin Midianite girls."
3 "God 'sanctioned' the murder of baby boys."

Now this person has passed her genes on to a child. She probably told her child that Jack and Jill went up the hill to screw, or better yet, that Jack was really Jacqueline - and that the two little girls went up the hill to fondle each other. But it was all ok because Jill's mom was a Christian who thought it was ok to murder baby boys. Anyway, when someone points out that her analysis of Jack and Jill is pure nonsense, she's not discouraged. No, no, no. She'll just point out that Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Why was he on the wall? Why, he was peeking over into the girl's bathroom. And he got all nervous and fell because his father was a Christian whose god "sanctioned" raping virgins. Crazy as a loon.


31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord"s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba"the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army"the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds"who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord"s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord"s part. 30 From the Israelites" half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord"s tabernacle." 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

.......



1. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful
no mention of baby boys...because they were murdered.
2 and 3: verse... 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

plunder: typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder
synonymous with pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape.

Look, do you plan to present any evidence that God ordered any mercy for the Midianite virgins or ordered the extermination of the Midianite male young.

We all know that God ordered Moses to do battle against the Midianites. We all are all aware that at some point after the battle, God instructed Moses as to how to divide up the plunder. Nobody ever questioned that.

What we can't figure out is that when Moses commanded his army to show mercy to the Midianite virgins who had not participated in the sexual activities with the Israelite men, exactly how did you determine that God spoke to Moses and told him to do so?

The Bible is usually pretty clear when stating what God told this person or that person to do. This chapter is no different.

Moses gave the directive to kill all the young males. That's what the scripture says. We are looking for something that says that Moses received this instruction from God, that He "ordered" it or "sanctioned" it.

Fair enough Moses did not speak for god, he was not god's profit. Throw the Torah out, it's meaningless.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,249
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4/30/2014 11:05:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let me get this straight MM.
If we assume that christianity is true then how can we argue with christian teachings?

Is that it? LOL.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
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4/30/2014 11:05:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:03:33 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:36:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:19:37 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 3:34:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.

I have no idea what "it" is, because there is just NO WAY that one person could so consistently combine ignorance with stupidity. Just no way. I think her goal is to just toss out nonsensical statements in order for people to type out these long, precise replies - then about the time nonsensical statement #1 is disproved, she'll come up with nonsensical statement #2, and on and on into the double digits.

Here's how it went last time:

1. "The Israelite men were never punished for their sexual sins with the Midianite women".
2. "God 'sanctioned' the rape of virgin Midianite girls."
3 "God 'sanctioned' the murder of baby boys."

Now this person has passed her genes on to a child. She probably told her child that Jack and Jill went up the hill to screw, or better yet, that Jack was really Jacqueline - and that the two little girls went up the hill to fondle each other. But it was all ok because Jill's mom was a Christian who thought it was ok to murder baby boys. Anyway, when someone points out that her analysis of Jack and Jill is pure nonsense, she's not discouraged. No, no, no. She'll just point out that Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Why was he on the wall? Why, he was peeking over into the girl's bathroom. And he got all nervous and fell because his father was a Christian whose god "sanctioned" raping virgins. Crazy as a loon.


31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord"s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba"the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army"the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds"who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord"s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord"s part. 30 From the Israelites" half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord"s tabernacle." 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

.......



1. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful
no mention of baby boys...because they were murdered.
2 and 3: verse... 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

plunder: typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder
synonymous with pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape.

Look, do you plan to present any evidence that God ordered any mercy for the Midianite virgins or ordered the extermination of the Midianite male young.

We all know that God ordered Moses to do battle against the Midianites. We all are all aware that at some point after the battle, God instructed Moses as to how to divide up the plunder. Nobody ever questioned that.

What we can't figure out is that when Moses commanded his army to show mercy to the Midianite virgins who had not participated in the sexual activities with the Israelite men, exactly how did you determine that God spoke to Moses and told him to do so?

The Bible is usually pretty clear when stating what God told this person or that person to do. This chapter is no different.

Moses gave the directive to kill all the young males. That's what the scripture says. We are looking for something that says that Moses received this instruction from God, that He "ordered" it or "sanctioned" it.

Fair enough Moses did not speak for god, he was not god's profit. Throw the Torah out, it's meaningless.

"Prophet"
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
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4/30/2014 11:29:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:05:56 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:03:33 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:36:27 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 10:19:37 PM, perplexed wrote:
At 4/30/2014 3:34:03 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 4/30/2014 12:57:30 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, If Matt picks up on the real you here then you're in for some trouble. And then, if Matt learns how to do you the rest of them could go for it too.

I have no idea what "it" is, because there is just NO WAY that one person could so consistently combine ignorance with stupidity. Just no way. I think her goal is to just toss out nonsensical statements in order for people to type out these long, precise replies - then about the time nonsensical statement #1 is disproved, she'll come up with nonsensical statement #2, and on and on into the double digits.

Here's how it went last time:

1. "The Israelite men were never punished for their sexual sins with the Midianite women".
2. "God 'sanctioned' the rape of virgin Midianite girls."
3 "God 'sanctioned' the murder of baby boys."

Now this person has passed her genes on to a child. She probably told her child that Jack and Jill went up the hill to screw, or better yet, that Jack was really Jacqueline - and that the two little girls went up the hill to fondle each other. But it was all ok because Jill's mom was a Christian who thought it was ok to murder baby boys. Anyway, when someone points out that her analysis of Jack and Jill is pure nonsense, she's not discouraged. No, no, no. She'll just point out that Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall. Why was he on the wall? Why, he was peeking over into the girl's bathroom. And he got all nervous and fell because his father was a Christian whose god "sanctioned" raping virgins. Crazy as a loon.


31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people."

3 So Moses said to the people, "Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord"s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel." 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba"the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army"the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds"who returned from the battle.

15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord"s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

25 The Lord said to Moses, 26 "You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the Lord one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the Lord"s part. 30 From the Israelites" half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord"s tabernacle." 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.

.......



1. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam"s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful
no mention of baby boys...because they were murdered.
2 and 3: verse... 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

plunder: typically using force and in a time of war or civil disorder
synonymous with pillage, loot, rob, raid, ransack, despoil, strip, ravage, lay waste, devastate, sack, rape.

Look, do you plan to present any evidence that God ordered any mercy for the Midianite virgins or ordered the extermination of the Midianite male young.

We all know that God ordered Moses to do battle against the Midianites. We all are all aware that at some point after the battle, God instructed Moses as to how to divide up the plunder. Nobody ever questioned that.

What we can't figure out is that when Moses commanded his army to show mercy to the Midianite virgins who had not participated in the sexual activities with the Israelite men, exactly how did you determine that God spoke to Moses and told him to do so?

The Bible is usually pretty clear when stating what God told this person or that person to do. This chapter is no different.

Moses gave the directive to kill all the young males. That's what the scripture says. We are looking for something that says that Moses received this instruction from God, that He "ordered" it or "sanctioned" it.

Fair enough Moses did not speak for god, he was not god's profit. Throw the Torah out, it's meaningless.

"Prophet"
The double entendre was deliberate.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
perplexed
Posts: 863
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5/1/2014 12:43:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 12:21:20 PM, monty1 wrote:
Perplexed, Maybe one thing a believer can do that you can't do is find peace with him/herself?
sure willful ignorance has that affect on people
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.