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I lost faith in my own religion

Jifpop09
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4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...
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vekoma123
Posts: 2
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5/1/2014 12:11:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gotta be honest, I've experienced the same thing in my former religion that I recently left, Unitarian Universalism. It's become less of a liberal spiritual community, and more of a radical progressive political agenda these days.
perplexed
Posts: 863
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5/1/2014 12:23:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
religion is political...
: At 4/29/2014 3:14:36 AM, annanicole wrote:

:
: I'll be happy to concede the raping of virgin girls, if you can find it somewhere.
Pitbull15
Posts: 479
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5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.
zmikecuber and I debate the Modal Ontological Argument
http://www.debate.org...

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"I have shown incredible restraint in the face of unrelenting stupidity."-Izbo10

"Oh my God, WHO THE HELL CARES?!"-Peter Griffin

"Let me put this in Spanish for you: NO!!"-Jase Robertson
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.
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progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/1/2014 11:57:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
JW ALERT!!! JW ALERT!!

A lost soul! But probably an easy one to win back to the flock! Much easier than working on perplexed who is a little too intelligent to make it worth all the hard work.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus
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InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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5/1/2014 12:04:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

I'm quite sure you have not studied the Bible to the extent that you're hoping we believe.
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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5/1/2014 12:07:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

I never denied that, but I see no real reason that they should.

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

I have problems believing something that is only partially true -- de fide in some parts, BS in others.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

If that's the case, then no one really cares what the heck you practice. The problem is that a lot of religious people do not keep it to themselves. We see these idiots trying to hinder contraception access or ban gay marriage.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

I agree. Jesus was one of the most liberal guys to have ever loved.

But then again, he did say "only through me will you reach heaven," basically saying that anyone who dares to question will burn for all eternity. So that'....great.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I agree. In fact, atheists and agnostics tend to know more than Christians about their own Bible -- in fact, many are atheists because they've read the Bible. Tell that to a fundi on DDO though and you'll hear "you just hate God!"

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

What about atheists?

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

Do you not see how troubling that is?
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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5/1/2014 12:07:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:07:10 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

I never denied that, but I see no real reason that they should.

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

I have problems believing something that is only partially true -- de fide in some parts, BS in others.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

If that's the case, then no one really cares what the heck you practice. The problem is that a lot of religious people do not keep it to themselves. We see these idiots trying to hinder contraception access or ban gay marriage.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

I agree. Jesus was one of the most liberal guys to have ever loved.

But then again, he did say "only through me will you reach heaven," basically saying that anyone who dares to question will burn for all eternity. So that'....great.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I agree. In fact, atheists and agnostics tend to know more than Christians about their own Bible -- in fact, many are atheists because they've read the Bible. Tell that to a fundi on DDO though and you'll hear "you just hate God!"

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

What about atheists?

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

Do you not see how troubling that is?

*lived
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 12:09:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:04:52 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

I'm quite sure you have not studied the Bible to the extent that you're hoping we believe.

You just assume I haven't read the bible? And where did you get the evidence to make such a assumption. I have, and I've owned 7 bibles in my short life, reading all but 1 to the end.

TO say I haven't studied it is baseless, and this reply is simply because your offended that I actually question the text. Something Christians should be doing. My favorite theologians are witness nee and lee, one of which died in a Chinese prison, trying to teach you guys to use your brain when reading the bible.
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InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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5/1/2014 12:20:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:09:43 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
You just assume I haven't read the bible? And where did you get the evidence to make such a assumption. I have, and I've owned 7 bibles in my short life, reading all but 1 to the end.

TO say I haven't studied it is baseless, and this reply is simply because your offended that I actually question the text. Something Christians should be doing. My favorite theologians are witness nee and lee, one of which died in a Chinese prison, trying to teach you guys to use your brain when reading the bible.

If you knew anything about me you would know that I could not care less that you're questioning the text. In fact, I know far more productive ways to do so. You have not just made a claim to have read the Bible, you have made a claim to have studied it. Reading and studying are different by orders of magnitude. My basis for your glaringly obvious lack of study comes from nothing less than your own words on the matter. So, not entirely baseless. You said there was over 100 authors of the Bible. A statement like that would immediately raise the brow of someone who has studied the material. There are only 66 books in the Bible, many of which were penned by the same author.

You make several other bogus claims regarding Leviticus, Paul, 2 Timothy 3:16, and the soteriological requirements of heaven. We can go over these if I'm convinced that your desire is to learn and not just make bad points.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 12:22:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:07:10 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

I never denied that, but I see no real reason that they should.

The greatest minds were Christians, and I would happily restate the list. We simply have to reform what we know with what know about science. We had three christian revivals, where people made new revelations on a book we had for 1000's of years. Its a matter of getting Christians willful to learn and study.

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

I have problems believing something that is only partially true -- de fide in some parts, BS in others.

The bible is not proof of god. The proof of god can only be found in the holy spirit. Everyone is born believing a god exists, they simply choose to deny it or let it in. Once you let god in, it will be impossible to deny him. Just quoting you what the bible says.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

If that's the case, then no one really cares what the heck you practice. The problem is that a lot of religious people do not keep it to themselves. We see these idiots trying to hinder contraception access or ban gay marriage.

It goes both ways. Both sides need to learn to respect each other, but in these cases, the catholics can lighten up (Yes, its the super religious catholics that keep these laws going)

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

I agree. Jesus was one of the most liberal guys to have ever loved.

But then again, he did say "only through me will you reach heaven," basically saying that anyone who dares to question will burn for all eternity. So that'....great.

You can only reach heaven through god. This has been extremely hard to offset though. During the third religious revival, christian thinkers deducted that hell isn't a actual place of never ending torture, or even a place.

It is ones remoteness to god. The farther you are, the more torture your in. Ask pitbull about it, as he can explain it better then me. Most people believe this internationally, except the fundamentalist south still holds on to that "Burn in the fires of hell" thing.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I agree. In fact, atheists and agnostics tend to know more than Christians about their own Bible -- in fact, many are atheists because they've read the Bible. Tell that to a fundi on DDO though and you'll hear "you just hate God!"

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

What about atheists?

To be honest, the whole concept of heaven is vague. But I explained what heaven is above. Some people believe that atheists still have a chance to enter heaven, but not right away. It is clear though, that the only way to get to heaven, is to accept the holy spirit.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

Do you not see how troubling that is?

Yeah, it is troubling that people choose to believe Paul, over every disciple and even Jesus himself, who never said a bad thing about homosexuality.
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Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 12:27:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:20:11 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:09:43 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
You just assume I haven't read the bible? And where did you get the evidence to make such a assumption. I have, and I've owned 7 bibles in my short life, reading all but 1 to the end.

TO say I haven't studied it is baseless, and this reply is simply because your offended that I actually question the text. Something Christians should be doing. My favorite theologians are witness nee and lee, one of which died in a Chinese prison, trying to teach you guys to use your brain when reading the bible.

If you knew anything about me you would know that I could not care less that you're questioning the text. In fact, I know far more productive ways to do so. You have not just made a claim to have read the Bible, you have made a claim to have studied it. Reading and studying are different by orders of magnitude. My basis for your glaringly obvious lack of study comes from nothing less than your own words on the matter. So, not entirely baseless. You said there was over 100 authors of the Bible. A statement like that would immediately raise the brow of someone who has studied the material. There are only 66 books in the Bible, many of which were penned by the same author.

You make several other bogus claims regarding Leviticus, Paul, 2 Timothy 3:16, and the soteriological requirements of heaven. We can go over these if I'm convinced that your desire is to learn and not just make bad points.

Seriously man? I have read and studied the bible a lot more then other people, and every single prophet has said, when asked what you need to do to get in heaven, is....

"Accept that Jesus is the lord"

"Believe Christ died for your sins"

Every one, so don't tell me that is wrong. I don't know what sect you are, but this is a basic truism. As for Timothy and Paul, I never mentioned those. I mentioned Timothy and Levictus, so please just stop. I just follow a more progressive set of beliefs, shared by at least 12 members I know on this site, and I don't want to hear another person defend his bigotry. Goodbye
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InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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5/1/2014 12:30:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:27:26 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Seriously man? I have read and studied the bible a lot more then other people, and every single prophet has said, when asked what you need to do to get in heaven, is....

"Accept that Jesus is the lord"

"Believe Christ died for your sins"

Every one, so don't tell me that is wrong. I don't know what sect you are, but this is a basic truism. As for Timothy and Paul, I never mentioned those. I mentioned Timothy and Levictus, so please just stop. I just follow a more progressive set of beliefs, shared by at least 12 members I know on this site, and I don't want to hear another person defend his bigotry. Goodbye

So bad points it is. Carry on.
Jifpop09
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5/1/2014 12:33:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:30:26 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:27:26 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Seriously man? I have read and studied the bible a lot more then other people, and every single prophet has said, when asked what you need to do to get in heaven, is....

"Accept that Jesus is the lord"

"Believe Christ died for your sins"

Every one, so don't tell me that is wrong. I don't know what sect you are, but this is a basic truism. As for Timothy and Paul, I never mentioned those. I mentioned Timothy and Levictus, so please just stop. I just follow a more progressive set of beliefs, shared by at least 12 members I know on this site, and I don't want to hear another person defend his bigotry. Goodbye

So bad points it is. Carry on.

-_-. Are you really doub ting this. In the bible, said by 12 disciples, all you need to do to enter heaven is believe in god.

You are are first person in my history of religious discussion to say this, and if its come down to disproving the most quoted phrase in the bible, then I'm not wasting my time arguing with you.
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progressivedem22
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5/1/2014 12:36:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:22:55 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:07:10 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

I never denied that, but I see no real reason that they should.

The greatest minds were Christians, and I would happily restate the list. We simply have to reform what we know with what know about science. We had three christian revivals, where people made new revelations on a book we had for 1000's of years. Its a matter of getting Christians willful to learn and study.

Sure, there were plenty of intelligent Christians, but there are also plenty of intelligent atheists. The argument is largely a wash and is only applicable if I were claiming that all Christians are dumb or anti-intellectual -- I'm not. My beef is not with them but with religion itself.

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

I have problems believing something that is only partially true -- de fide in some parts, BS in others.

The bible is not proof of god. The proof of god can only be found in the holy spirit. Everyone is born believing a god exists, they simply choose to deny it or let it in. Once you let god in, it will be impossible to deny him. Just quoting you what the bible says.

Everyone is born a believer? Quite the contrary. You have to be told a God exists, which is why religion differs by geographic region and people who grew up without it tend to be non-religious.

And this whole "proof is in the Holy Spirit" or "it will be impossible to deny him" -- and I mean no disrespect -- makes you sound like a loony preacher. What the heck does that even mean?

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

If that's the case, then no one really cares what the heck you practice. The problem is that a lot of religious people do not keep it to themselves. We see these idiots trying to hinder contraception access or ban gay marriage.

It goes both ways. Both sides need to learn to respect each other, but in these cases, the catholics can lighten up (Yes, its the super religious catholics that keep these laws going)

I'm going to have to call you on your false equivalency. What the heck have atheists done to attack Christians -- not religion itself, but Christians? Nothing. New Atheism is nothing more than questioning ideas and not setting religion aside as though it should be completely free of any criticism. I'm sorry, but until you find an atheist who tells you that you're going to burn in hell for all eternity for daring to question something for which there is no evidence, this argument of yours is utter hogwash.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

I agree. Jesus was one of the most liberal guys to have ever loved.

But then again, he did say "only through me will you reach heaven," basically saying that anyone who dares to question will burn for all eternity. So that'....great.

You can only reach heaven through god. This has been extremely hard to offset though. During the third religious revival, christian thinkers deducted that hell isn't a actual place of never ending torture, or even a place.

Christians still believe in hell, don't they? Sure, many dropped the definition of it as fiery torture to "separation from God," but they still believe it.

Also, way to prove my point. That is your argument -- feel free to believe that, but don't turn around and call people who don't claim to have de fide knowledge intolerant.

It is ones remoteness to god. The farther you are, the more torture your in. Ask pitbull about it, as he can explain it better then me. Most people believe this internationally, except the fundamentalist south still holds on to that "Burn in the fires of hell" thing.

I'm an atheist, and I feel fine.

Sure, religious people tend to be happier, and extremists are happier than moderates, conservatives are happier than liberals, etc. Ignorance is bliss.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I agree. In fact, atheists and agnostics tend to know more than Christians about their own Bible -- in fact, many are atheists because they've read the Bible. Tell that to a fundi on DDO though and you'll hear "you just hate God!"

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

What about atheists?

To be honest, the whole concept of heaven is vague. But I explained what heaven is above. Some people believe that atheists still have a chance to enter heaven, but not right away. It is clear though, that the only way to get to heaven, is to accept the holy spirit.

It isn't clear because it isn't clear that heaven exists. Your circular logic is ridiculous. Come on, man, you're smarter than that.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

Do you not see how troubling that is?

Yeah, it is troubling that people choose to believe Paul, over every disciple and even Jesus himself, who never said a bad thing about homosexuality.

No, not that -- "believe in my sky god or burn forever" narrative.
annanicole
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5/1/2014 12:45:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 11:57:26 AM, monty1 wrote:
JW ALERT!!! JW ALERT!!

A lost soul! But probably an easy one to win back to the flock! Much easier than working on perplexed who is a little too intelligent to make it worth all the hard work.

You have spotted someone in here that's dumber than "perplexed"? (I mean a human, of course). Who?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Jifpop09
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5/1/2014 12:49:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:36:33 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

I never denied that, but I see no real reason that they should.

The greatest minds were Christians, and I would happily restate the list. We simply have to reform what we know with what know about science. We had three christian revivals, where people made new revelations on a book we had for 1000's of years. Its a matter of getting Christians willful to learn and study.

Sure, there were plenty of intelligent Christians, but there are also plenty of intelligent atheists. The argument is largely a wash and is only applicable if I were claiming that all Christians are dumb or anti-intellectual -- I'm not. My beef is not with them but with religion itself.

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

I have problems believing something that is only partially true -- de fide in some parts, BS in others.

The bible is not proof of god. The proof of god can only be found in the holy spirit. Everyone is born believing a god exists, they simply choose to deny it or let it in. Once you let god in, it will be impossible to deny him. Just quoting you what the bible says.

Everyone is born a believer? Quite the contrary. You have to be told a God exists, which is why religion differs by geographic region and people who grew up without it tend to be non-religious.

And this whole "proof is in the Holy Spirit" or "it will be impossible to deny him" -- and I mean no disrespect -- makes you sound like a loony preacher. What the heck does that even mean?

Your complaints should be directed at the bible, I don't write it.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

If that's the case, then no one really cares what the heck you practice. The problem is that a lot of religious people do not keep it to themselves. We see these idiots trying to hinder contraception access or ban gay marriage.

It goes both ways. Both sides need to learn to respect each other, but in these cases, the catholics can lighten up (Yes, its the super religious catholics that keep these laws going)

I'm going to have to call you on your false equivalency. What the heck have atheists done to attack Christians -- not religion itself, but Christians? Nothing. New Atheism is nothing more than questioning ideas and not setting religion aside as though it should be completely free of any criticism. I'm sorry, but until you find an atheist who tells you that you're going to burn in hell for all eternity for daring to question something for which there is no evidence, this argument of yours is utter hogwash.

See, you played the double standard. Its not as prevalent, but some atheists have indeed tried to impose against religion itself. Please ssay we can both agree on that. NVM though. You keep ignoring what I'm telling you though. You simply vanish when you die. Your not tortured based on modern protestant belief (Most protestants)

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

I agree. Jesus was one of the most liberal guys to have ever loved.

But then again, he did say "only through me will you reach heaven," basically saying that anyone who dares to question will burn for all eternity. So that'....great.

You can only reach heaven through god. This has been extremely hard to offset though. During the third religious revival, christian thinkers deducted that hell isn't a actual place of never ending torture, or even a place.

Christians still believe in hell, don't they? Sure, many dropped the definition of it as fiery torture to "separation from God," but they still believe it.

Should we not believe in it? We can't just change our religion to fit what makes the most sense. If we drop hell's existence, then we can pretty much drop whatever else Jesus tells us.

Also, way to prove my point. That is your argument -- feel free to believe that, but don't turn around and call people who don't claim to have de fide knowledge intolerant.

I called no one intolerant man. I called christians who impose religion on others intolerant. Miscommunication.

It is ones remoteness to god. The farther you are, the more torture your in. Ask pitbull about it, as he can explain it better then me. Most people believe this internationally, except the fundamentalist south still holds on to that "Burn in the fires of hell" thing.

I'm an atheist, and I feel fine.

Confused. Were talking about hell. This statement and the one below is not relevant to the quote on hell.

Sure, religious people tend to be happier, and extremists are happier than moderates, conservatives are happier than liberals, etc. Ignorance is bliss.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I agree. In fact, atheists and agnostics tend to know more than Christians about their own Bible -- in fact, many are atheists because they've read the Bible. Tell that to a fundi on DDO though and you'll hear "you just hate God!"

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

What about atheists?

To be honest, the whole concept of heaven is vague. But I explained what heaven is above. Some people believe that atheists still have a chance to enter heaven, but not right away. It is clear though, that the only way to get to heaven, is to accept the holy spirit.

It isn't clear because it isn't clear that heaven exists. Your circular logic is ridiculous. Come on, man, you're smarter than that.

As I said, the only way to know heaven exists is to accept god. I don't want to debate on why I accepted the holy spirit, but simply giving you what the bible says. So take your complaints up with Jesus (Assuming he exists)

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

Do you not see how troubling that is?

Yeah, it is troubling that people choose to believe Paul, over every disciple and even Jesus himself, who never said a bad thing about homosexuality.

No, not that -- "believe in my sky god or burn forever" narrative.

As I said, you simply vanish away upon death, which is what I was trying to explain. Its not a literal place of torture.

Anyways, I'm trying to share the new religious beliefs. Not trying to argue that they are right or wrong. They are what they are, and I'm not trying to debate you now, even though it seems you are.
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ESocialBookworm
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5/1/2014 12:54:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

That doesn't sound creepy at all.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

Okaaayyy then...

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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5/1/2014 12:55:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:09:43 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:04:52 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

I'm quite sure you have not studied the Bible to the extent that you're hoping we believe.

You just assume I haven't read the bible? And where did you get the evidence to make such a assumption. I have, and I've owned 7 bibles in my short life, reading all but 1 to the end.

We KNOW you haven't read it, else you wouldn't be saying stuff like, "In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven. Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus." That's not true. Not even close to true. Not even in the ballpark.

TO say I haven't studied it is baseless, and this reply is simply because your offended that I actually question the text. Something Christians should be doing. My favorite theologians are witness nee and lee, one of which died in a Chinese prison, trying to teach you guys to use your brain when reading the bible.

Use yours. Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Like most others, Witness Nee has some good ideas ... scriptural ideas ... such as abandoning sectarian names and destroying the clergy/laity joke. In the end though, he taught a vague "experience" as a part of conversion.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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5/1/2014 12:56:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:54:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

That doesn't sound creepy at all.

It wasn't intended to be lol.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

Okaaayyy then...

That was an inside joke against the O'Reilly-Palin-et-al camp who thinks there's a war on Christmas.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.
Jifpop09
Posts: 2,243
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5/1/2014 12:57:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:55:06 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:09:43 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:04:52 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

I'm quite sure you have not studied the Bible to the extent that you're hoping we believe.

You just assume I haven't read the bible? And where did you get the evidence to make such a assumption. I have, and I've owned 7 bibles in my short life, reading all but 1 to the end.

We KNOW you haven't read it, else you wouldn't be saying stuff like, "In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven. Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus." That's not true. Not even close to true. Not even in the ballpark.

TO say I haven't studied it is baseless, and this reply is simply because your offended that I actually question the text. Something Christians should be doing. My favorite theologians are witness nee and lee, one of which died in a Chinese prison, trying to teach you guys to use your brain when reading the bible.

Use yours. Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Like most others, Witness Nee has some good ideas ... scriptural ideas ... such as abandoning sectarian names and destroying the clergy/laity joke. In the end though, he taught a vague "experience" as a part of conversion.

Ughh, its you again. Your religious fundamentalism and extreme traditionalism brings you in conflict 2ith 80% of the members on this forum. TO address your concern, being baptized is accepting the holy spirit, which is god.

I honestly can't believe you just made that refutation, but your obviously not peoples favorite person to debate
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ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,369
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5/1/2014 1:04:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:56:11 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:54:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

That doesn't sound creepy at all.

It wasn't intended to be lol.

Salutes*

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

Okaaayyy then...

That was an inside joke against the O'Reilly-Palin-et-al camp who thinks there's a war on Christmas.

Never heard of it.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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5/1/2014 1:04:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

Your complaints should be directed at the bible, I don't write it.

Oh come on, what a cop-out. You didn't write it but you believe it and you haven taken lessons from it. Then when I dare to question it, that's your answer? I find that to be an insufficient way to justify a belief.

See, you played the double standard. Its not as prevalent, but some atheists have indeed tried to impose against religion itself. Please ssay we can both agree on that. NVM though. You keep ignoring what I'm telling you though. You simply vanish when you die. Your not tortured based on modern protestant belief (Most protestants)

What double standard? I said your argument was a false equivalency. Sure, there are anti-theists like Hitchens, but he was never as bad as even some of the best of the worst fundamentalist Christians.

I'm not ignoring anything that you're telling me. You just keep spouting this illogical nonsense that you can't verify, and I supposed to accept it as a matter of faith -- as a sudden divine realization.


Should we not believe in it? We can't just change our religion to fit what makes the most sense. If we drop hell's existence, then we can pretty much drop whatever else Jesus tells us.

First, you're the one who said Christians have. I'm simply responding to what you said.

Second, Christians do that all the time -- changing their beliefs to suit their agenda. See the condemnation of homosexuality and premartial sex, but silence on shellfish, cloth of two fabrics etc.


I called no one intolerant man. I called christians who impose religion on others intolerant. Miscommunication.

You insinuated that atheists and Christian need to tolerate one another, and I said that's a complete false equivalency. I'm sure there are a few assholish atheists out there, but they pale in comparison with the amount of fundi Christians -- and not to mention, atheists are probably one of the last remaining groups in the US that it's ok to discriminate against. About 40% of the country, if memory serves, said they would never vote for an atheist president. Because I guess believing in magic will help you at a time of war, or something.

The point is, there are Christians who claim that one NEEDS to have a belief in God to be moral. Let that settle in for just a moment, and then tell me again that the hatred "on both sides" is in any way equal.


I'm an atheist, and I feel fine.

Confused. Were talking about hell. This statement and the one below is not relevant to the quote on hell.

You said that we feel tortured as we move away from God. That could have been in the context of death, but the statement stands.

Sure, religious people tend to be happier, and extremists are happier than moderates, conservatives are happier than liberals, etc. Ignorance is bliss.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I agree. In fact, atheists and agnostics tend to know more than Christians about their own Bible -- in fact, many are atheists because they've read the Bible. Tell that to a fundi on DDO though and you'll hear "you just hate God!"

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

What about atheists?

To be honest, the whole concept of heaven is vague. But I explained what heaven is above. Some people believe that atheists still have a chance to enter heaven, but not right away. It is clear though, that the only way to get to heaven, is to accept the holy spirit.

It isn't clear because it isn't clear that heaven exists. Your circular logic is ridiculous. Come on, man, you're smarter than that.

As I said, the only way to know heaven exists is to accept god. I don't want to debate on why I accepted the holy spirit, but simply giving you what the bible says. So take your complaints up with Jesus (Assuming he exists)

Accepting a magical being doesn't give you knowledge. You don't know that there's a God even if you "accepted" one. Don't kid yourself. You're smarter than that, too.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

Do you not see how troubling that is?

Yeah, it is troubling that people choose to believe Paul, over every disciple and even Jesus himself, who never said a bad thing about homosexuality.

No, not that -- "believe in my sky god or burn forever" narrative.

As I said, you simply vanish away upon death, which is what I was trying to explain. Its not a literal place of torture.

Oh, so I vanish but Christians live on forever? Interesting. I've never seen that interpretation before.

Anyways, I'm trying to share the new religious beliefs. Not trying to argue that they are right or wrong. They are what they are, and I'm not trying to debate you now, even though it seems you are.

I'm simply doing what I think has to be done in a modern society -- question what I deem to be primitive fairy tales. Surely you can understand where I'm coming from.
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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5/1/2014 1:05:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 1:04:06 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:56:11 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:54:53 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

That doesn't sound creepy at all.

It wasn't intended to be lol.

Salutes*

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

Okaaayyy then...

That was an inside joke against the O'Reilly-Palin-et-al camp who thinks there's a war on Christmas.

Never heard of it.

Really? Palin wrote -- err, co-wrote...hired someone to write...err -- a book on it. It's really quite funny and is a classical case of the majority getting bent out of shape when it looks as though they can't impose their will on the minority as much as they once could.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/1/2014 1:08:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 1:04:11 PM, progressivedem22 wrote:

Your complaints should be directed at the bible, I don't write it.

Oh come on, what a cop-out. You didn't write it but you believe it and you haven taken lessons from it. Then when I dare to question it, that's your answer? I find that to be an insufficient way to justify a belief.

See, you played the double standard. Its not as prevalent, but some atheists have indeed tried to impose against religion itself. Please ssay we can both agree on that. NVM though. You keep ignoring what I'm telling you though. You simply vanish when you die. Your not tortured based on modern protestant belief (Most protestants)

What double standard? I said your argument was a false equivalency. Sure, there are anti-theists like Hitchens, but he was never as bad as even some of the best of the worst fundamentalist Christians.

I'm not ignoring anything that you're telling me. You just keep spouting this illogical nonsense that you can't verify, and I supposed to accept it as a matter of faith -- as a sudden divine realization.


Should we not believe in it? We can't just change our religion to fit what makes the most sense. If we drop hell's existence, then we can pretty much drop whatever else Jesus tells us.

First, you're the one who said Christians have. I'm simply responding to what you said.

Second, Christians do that all the time -- changing their beliefs to suit their agenda. See the condemnation of homosexuality and premartial sex, but silence on shellfish, cloth of two fabrics etc.


I called no one intolerant man. I called christians who impose religion on others intolerant. Miscommunication.

You insinuated that atheists and Christian need to tolerate one another, and I said that's a complete false equivalency. I'm sure there are a few assholish atheists out there, but they pale in comparison with the amount of fundi Christians -- and not to mention, atheists are probably one of the last remaining groups in the US that it's ok to discriminate against. About 40% of the country, if memory serves, said they would never vote for an atheist president. Because I guess believing in magic will help you at a time of war, or something.

The point is, there are Christians who claim that one NEEDS to have a belief in God to be moral. Let that settle in for just a moment, and then tell me again that the hatred "on both sides" is in any way equal.


I'm an atheist, and I feel fine.

Confused. Were talking about hell. This statement and the one below is not relevant to the quote on hell.

You said that we feel tortured as we move away from God. That could have been in the context of death, but the statement stands.

Sure, religious people tend to be happier, and extremists are happier than moderates, conservatives are happier than liberals, etc. Ignorance is bliss.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I agree. In fact, atheists and agnostics tend to know more than Christians about their own Bible -- in fact, many are atheists because they've read the Bible. Tell that to a fundi on DDO though and you'll hear "you just hate God!"

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

What about atheists?

To be honest, the whole concept of heaven is vague. But I explained what heaven is above. Some people believe that atheists still have a chance to enter heaven, but not right away. It is clear though, that the only way to get to heaven, is to accept the holy spirit.

It isn't clear because it isn't clear that heaven exists. Your circular logic is ridiculous. Come on, man, you're smarter than that.

As I said, the only way to know heaven exists is to accept god. I don't want to debate on why I accepted the holy spirit, but simply giving you what the bible says. So take your complaints up with Jesus (Assuming he exists)

Accepting a magical being doesn't give you knowledge. You don't know that there's a God even if you "accepted" one. Don't kid yourself. You're smarter than that, too.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

Do you not see how troubling that is?

Yeah, it is troubling that people choose to believe Paul, over every disciple and even Jesus himself, who never said a bad thing about homosexuality.

No, not that -- "believe in my sky god or burn forever" narrative.

As I said, you simply vanish away upon death, which is what I was trying to explain. Its not a literal place of torture.

Oh, so I vanish but Christians live on forever? Interesting. I've never seen that interpretation before.

Anyways, I'm trying to share the new religious beliefs. Not trying to argue that they are right or wrong. They are what they are, and I'm not trying to debate you now, even though it seems you are.

I'm simply doing what I think has to be done in a modern society -- question what I deem to be primitive fairy tales. Surely you can understand where I'm coming from.

And so progressivedem, you're searching for a good reason to go back to the flock too! Yes, they live forever and you don't and you've definitely heard that before. Maybe you just subconsciously put it out of your head.

Gotcha on my list!
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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5/1/2014 1:13:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/1/2014 12:57:39 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:55:06 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:09:43 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 12:04:52 PM, InquireTruth wrote:
At 5/1/2014 11:59:26 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 10:58:19 AM, progressivedem22 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:37:58 AM, Jifpop09 wrote:
At 5/1/2014 5:35:13 AM, Pitbull15 wrote:
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

http://www.debate.org...

Did you lose faith in Christianity or some of its followers?
Those two are not the same.

Its followers. Most of them anyways. So few actually study the bible now a days, instead just accepting whatever block of text is put in front of their face as true.

I went down the same path, which is what made me an atheist. You'll join us soon enough.

If not, we've got cookies, and we're all getting together to go and steal Christmas this year.

But really, it's laughable that there are actually people dumb enough to think that there's a "war on Christianity." People never cease to amaze me. Somehow, some way, the LGBTs are the oppressors, and Christians the oppresses. That's so unbelievably backward and ridiculous that it makes me want to rage.

People need to understand, that religion and science can coincide. we just need to realize that....

1. Not everything in the bible is true (It was written by 100's of people). And no, its not god breathe. WTF does it even say that? Hint: It doesn't.

2. We can still worship our religion without suppressing others. Litterally the reasoning is that if we don't then god will get angry at us.

3. We can learn to tolerate others. Jesus said, that we should not persecute others, as they will persecute us. Duh, it says right there to be accepting, and not bigots.

4. ACTUALLY read the bible. 75% of the people in the religion don't actually read thee 700 page bible, or take the time to research the validity of some books.

I've debated people many times, that you can still into heaven if your a homosexual. All I had to do, was bring up that leviticus was written by dozens priests, and Paul was the only person in the new testament that criticized homosexuals, who's teachings contradicted 5 other disciples.

In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven (The only requirement). Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus

I'm quite sure you have not studied the Bible to the extent that you're hoping we believe.

You just assume I haven't read the bible? And where did you get the evidence to make such a assumption. I have, and I've owned 7 bibles in my short life, reading all but 1 to the end.

We KNOW you haven't read it, else you wouldn't be saying stuff like, "In the bible, all you have to do is believe in god to enter heaven. Every disciple in the bible has said this, except Paul, who never actually meet Jesus." That's not true. Not even close to true. Not even in the ballpark.

TO say I haven't studied it is baseless, and this reply is simply because your offended that I actually question the text. Something Christians should be doing. My favorite theologians are witness nee and lee, one of which died in a Chinese prison, trying to teach you guys to use your brain when reading the bible.

Use yours. Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Like most others, Witness Nee has some good ideas ... scriptural ideas ... such as abandoning sectarian names and destroying the clergy/laity joke. In the end though, he taught a vague "experience" as a part of conversion.

Ughh, its you again. Your religious fundamentalism and extreme traditionalism brings you in conflict 2ith 80% of the members on this forum. TO address your concern, being baptized is accepting the holy spirit, which is god.

I honestly can't believe you just made that refutation, but your obviously not peoples favorite person to debate

Ummm ... I have no "traditionalism" at all. As far as "religious fundamentalism", I don't even know what THAT is. I have a feeling that it just means whatever fits at the moment.

"Being baptized" is not "accepting the Holy Spirit". Who told you that?

"And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be 'accept the Holy Spirit'? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he 'accepted the Holy Spirit' him."

"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and 'accept the Holy Spirit', and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

And just look at the passage at Acts 2:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and 'accept the Holy Spirit' every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

In its ordinary usage, unless there is good reason otherwise, baptism would be understood to mean "water baptism". The "baptism of the Holy Spirit" was only for the apostles anyway - not for you or me.

Does your whole position depend upon redefining words?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,788
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5/1/2014 1:16:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 4/30/2014 11:45:17 PM, Jifpop09 wrote:
Honestly, does Christianity even have a place in politics to begin with? Then why do these idiots keep defending their bigotry with the bible??

Answer: Christianity (and religion in general) do not have a place in politics. That's precisely why the Bible does not endorse such a relationship, or rather put it like this: "Christianity has no place in politics because the NT teaches that Christianity has no place in politics." And it doesn't. So IDK what you are fussing about.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."