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Convince an atheist.

Schzincko
Posts: 119
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5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).
vankipp
Posts: 3
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5/2/2014 8:32:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hi Schzincko,

Very cool topic! I'd like to take part, sharing my theistic perspective, but first can you describe your own views a bit more? Given the variety of views that get pulled under the label "atheist", I'd love some clarity on where you come from.

Are you a "strong" atheist, who believes in the truth of the proposition "There is no God"? Or an "a-theist" or "soft atheist" who lacks belief in God yet makes no truth claim whatsoever about God's existence? Or maybe you are something like a verificationist who claims that the propositions "God does not exist" and "God does exist" are both meaningless and have no truth value?

Look forward to talking further.
Schzincko
Posts: 119
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5/2/2014 9:13:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:32:22 PM, vankipp wrote:
Hi Schzincko,

Very cool topic! I'd like to take part, sharing my theistic perspective, but first can you describe your own views a bit more? Given the variety of views that get pulled under the label "atheist", I'd love some clarity on where you come from.

Are you a "strong" atheist, who believes in the truth of the proposition "There is no God"? Or an "a-theist" or "soft atheist" who lacks belief in God yet makes no truth claim whatsoever about God's existence? Or maybe you are something like a verificationist who claims that the propositions "God does not exist" and "God does exist" are both meaningless and have no truth value?


Welcome, vankipp.
Well, I've gotta say. I don't know a whole lot about anything, but I think hard on what I'm presented with. So I may have not even heard the right term to relate to. I simply found the term "atheist" to be the closest I could relate to, so here I am.

To answer the specifications of what you have given me, I would say I agree with the strong atheist portion to a certain extent because I do have my own ideas that deny the possibility of a god existing, but I am conflicted. I also find myself relating to the verificationist definition because nothing can be accepted as truth without solid proof. So I do find both of these arguments to be at a stalemate of nonsense, since there really is no way of proving either side quite yet. You know, unless somehow we trump death and see what happens (that was a joke).

Perhaps maybe this will shed some more light on what I'm saying:
My belief is that the universe has no origin, which is contrary to a massive percentage of the population's belief. It makes sense why people might not consider that as a possibility, considering the idea that the answer to that big question of "Where did we come from?" is what everyone is after.

The way I look at it is alternative. The universe has no origin/no beginning. It is constant. The miracle of life is that which comes from an endlessly living universal source. Yes, I know. My belief calls for outside life that maintains a constant cycle and that sounds ridiculous. Because the next question is, where did the life come from? My response: Where does life come from now? Other life. Reproduction at its finest. It's not that I have anything against the ideas of the big bang, or creationism, or anything else for that matter, but when I'm faced with either the idea that someone created something out of nothing or the idea that something appeared out of nothing, it makes me want to reject both.

And so far, constant cycling is the only way I can imagine it to work out without explosions of life or magic (no offense intended. I have awful vocabulary skills).

As a result, I have no other terms to relate to (as a result of my awful vocab. skills) besides: atheist or "guy who believes we are alien colonists that came from other alien colonists that have no idea we're alien colonists because evolution changed us when we found Earth" (that was also intended to be a joke)
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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5/2/2014 10:09:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
1.) No person nor scientific theory has "disproved" the existence of God.

2.) If you don't believe in God, you could go to Hell.

3.) Believe in God, so you don't go to Hell.

Check and Mate. Your move Mr. Atheist.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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5/2/2014 10:45:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 10:09:50 PM, HPWKA wrote:
1.) No person nor scientific theory has "disproved" the existence of God.

2.) If you don't believe in God, you could go to Hell.

3.) Believe in God, so you don't go to Hell.

Check and Mate. Your move Mr. Atheist.

Pascal is dead, leave him in peace.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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5/2/2014 10:49:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 10:45:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:09:50 PM, HPWKA wrote:
1.) No person nor scientific theory has "disproved" the existence of God.

2.) If you don't believe in God, you could go to Hell.

3.) Believe in God, so you don't go to Hell.

Check and Mate. Your move Mr. Atheist.

Pascal is dead, leave him in peace.

This isn't a proper response. Address the points.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/2/2014 11:25:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM, Schzincko wrote:
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).

There will never be enough evidence to convince totally either side. Any evidence presented as proof for a god will be dismissed by atheist by saying there is no reason to think a god did that, because there is no proof god exist.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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5/2/2014 11:32:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 10:49:08 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:45:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:09:50 PM, HPWKA wrote:
1.) No person nor scientific theory has "disproved" the existence of God.

2.) If you don't believe in God, you could go to Hell.

3.) Believe in God, so you don't go to Hell.

Check and Mate. Your move Mr. Atheist.

Pascal is dead, leave him in peace.

This isn't a proper response. Address the points.

Sigh.....

1) Why are we presupposing that one is either an atheist or a Christian? There are dozens of other religions with their own hells, or lack of hells, to which one goes for a multiplicity of reasons. Also, one can be a theist but not believe in the existence of hell. One can be a theist for the FSM and believe that pasta-related things lead to heaven or hell. There is no reason to weight the Christian view so heavily vs. the thousands of other views on hell. How do you know that the deity that might exist doesn't like atheists? Maybe it only sends atheists to its heaven for their intellectual resilience. Etc.

2) Any reasonable God would not send the person to heaven who only believed in him/his Son to avoid punishment. They aren't any better than the child who is only good to get presents from Santa. In fact, I'm sure that God, if He does exist, would much prefer an atheist to a theist with such selfish and petty motives.
bulproof
Posts: 25,197
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5/3/2014 12:15:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 11:32:32 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:49:08 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:45:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:09:50 PM, HPWKA wrote:
1.) No person nor scientific theory has "disproved" the existence of God.

2.) If you don't believe in God, you could go to Hell.

3.) Believe in God, so you don't go to Hell.

Check and Mate. Your move Mr. Atheist.

Pascal is dead, leave him in peace.

This isn't a proper response. Address the points.

Sigh.....

1) Why are we presupposing that one is either an atheist or a Christian? There are dozens of other religions with their own hells, or lack of hells, to which one goes for a multiplicity of reasons. Also, one can be a theist but not believe in the existence of hell. One can be a theist for the FSM and believe that pasta-related things lead to heaven or hell. There is no reason to weight the Christian view so heavily vs. the thousands of other views on hell. How do you know that the deity that might exist doesn't like atheists? Maybe it only sends atheists to its heaven for their intellectual resilience. Etc.

2) Any reasonable God would not send the person to heaven who only believed in him/his Son to avoid punishment. They aren't any better than the child who is only good to get presents from Santa. In fact, I'm sure that God, if He does exist, would much prefer an atheist to a theist with such selfish and petty motives.

I hope you don't expect them to understand that. LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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5/3/2014 12:22:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM, Schzincko wrote:
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).

You should read my topic on scientific errors in religion: link is below

http://www.debate.org...
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
Keltron
Posts: 161
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5/3/2014 2:07:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM, Schzincko wrote:
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).

Well, let me give you a slice from a sort of agnostic atheist point of view. For me the important thing is to stay within a zone of intellectual and emotional honesty. A big part of that is admitting to myself the extent to which I don't actually know things. I'm not a scientist. I didn't rattle the test tubes. I didn't dig up the relics. I didn't formulate the mathematics. So I don't really know, for example, how the universe came into being, or how life began. To me its not important to "believe" in science. What I try to do is consider the credibility of sources in order to arrive at what I think is the best answer. In that sense, I'm usually most persuaded by the consensus position of mainstream scholarship, but I always bear in mind that science is a process of ongoing discovery, so I don't take hard positions.

I've thought about it a lot, and I don't think that religious faith is an intellectually, or emotionally honest position. Intellectually, it starts from a first principle about the existence of God that I don't find necessary or compelling. And emotionally it provides a false sense of order and meaning which relies on a the idea that there is an inherent justice and benevolence that I don't see reflected in the real world. I don't see that there is any inherent reward for good, or punishment for evil. What I do see is a system of pacification and control whose aim is to insure the compliance and apathy of the powerless in the service of the interests of the powerful.

But honestly, it's not just religion which seeks to pacify the poor for the benefit of the rich. Popular culture is absolutely saturated with propaganda which encourages the 99% to accept their less than satisfactory station in life without complaint. Think of the Cinderella story: Cinderella's life was miserable, but she never complained, and lo and behold, she met a prince and lived happily ever after. Think of all the Horatio Alger stories about local boys who worked hard an got ahead. Look at how popular entertainers who came from humble roots roots are lionized by the purveyors of cultural pablum. How about the minority figures like George Washington Carver who are held up as examples of how anyone with ambition can succeed. Consider Country Music's current obsession with nostalgic Americana and redneck identity propaganda. The message in all of this is that despite the obvious disparity in opportunity between the rich and everyone else, and the inherent injustice of things in general, we should all accept our lot without complaint, do our best, and maybe, just maybe we can end up like Magic Johnson or Shaq.

The point here, for me at least, is that I don't just reject religion because I find a God concept unnecessary, I reject it because it is complicit with the other power institutions whose function it is to render us stupid, politically apathetic, and compliant for the benefit of the moneyed elite.
progressivedem22
Posts: 1,304
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5/3/2014 8:31:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 10:09:50 PM, HPWKA wrote:
1.) No person nor scientific theory has "disproved" the existence of God.

It's impossible to prove a negative. You can't disprove the flying spaghetti monster, or that we all came into existence thirty seconds ago with our memories.

2.) If you don't believe in God, you could go to Hell.

If you believe in the wrong God, you could go to the Hell of whichever religion is right.

3.) Believe in God, so you don't go to Hell.

Which God, and which hell? And where's your evidence that this hell exists?

Check and Mate. Your move Mr. Atheist.

Check and mate.
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Schzincko, believing in "God" is a personal choice. Whether I believe in God, or do not believe in God is of no consequence to you. Trying to convince a person one way or another can and as you plainly stated, will become problematic when a person is firm in their own belief. One can not force or even compel a person to believe or disbelieve an idea that can not be proved or disproved. This is something that the individual comes to terms with on their own, based on their own experiences.

At the risk of getting blasted, this is how I see internet atheists. Most are searching for answers because they are not sure, they are not fully convinced in what they believe. Maybe they have no reason to believe. They have unanswered questions. The reason I say this is because I don't understand what compels a person who does not believe in something, to discuss what they do not believe in with people who do believe. This is counter intuitive to being rational. This is why I believe something else is driving these discussions. I don't believe in the UFO/ET phenomena, I don't believe in bigfoot, or lochness, or el chupacabra. But I have never felt compelled to go to sites where people who do believe in this to tell them they are wrong. To tell them I am right, to get into arguments with them on the nuances or the evidence. The reason for this is because I don't really care about it or have interest in the subject mater. I am not even on the fence. I have no interest in having the conversation. The reason is because I do not believe and I am not interested in being convinced. On the other hand, I do understand why people who do visit these sites or get into these discussions. It is because they want to share their experience and/or have questions about others experiences.

Does this mean all atheists actually do believe or want to believe or question their own belief. Of course not. My father was an atheist, my brother and most of my sisters are atheist. These people won't even have the conversation with you regarding the subject. When I was a boy, I asked my dad about God. He told me he did not believe in God. When I pressed the issue he told me - your mother believes in God, go talk to her about it. I get that now. What could a person who does not believe in something, tell me about that something. I never asked him why he did not believe in God and he did not feel compelled to convince me to see things his way or why he believed the way he believed. People firm in their belief are comfortable with the position they have taken. I get this response to something I do not believe in.

I can't convince you to believe in God. All I can do is tell you is it has been my conscious experience in life that God exists. Perhaps it has been your conscious experience God does not exist. To this, all I can say is -- that's okay too. It's your conscious and your experience. Make the most of what you do experience. Hope this helped.

Peace
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/3/2014 4:50:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM, Schzincko wrote:
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).

If an atheist wants to be convinced he will read the truth and recognise it for what it is.

It is impossible to convince someone who does not want to be convinced.

All one can do is put the truth out there and hope that one or two recognise it. We can "lead horses to water" but we "cannot force them to drink".

God has not intention of forcing any to whom the real truth does not appeal.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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5/3/2014 6:15:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 4:50:28 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM, Schzincko wrote:
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).

If an atheist wants to be convinced he will read the truth and recognise it for what it is.

LMAO

It is impossible to convince someone who does not want to be convinced.

LMAO. Yes, it is very possible - just more difficult

All one can do is put the truth out there and hope that one or two recognise it. We can "lead horses to water" but we "cannot force them to drink".

See where the WatchTower doctrines of men have driven you?

God has not intention of forcing any to whom the real truth does not appeal.

Nobody on here mentioned "force". The problem is that your silly doctrines make it all but impossibly for you to set forth ONE GOOD ARGUMENT in favor of God. You sure can't bring up fulfilled prophesy - because you've decided that none of it has been fulfilled.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/3/2014 7:09:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 11:32:32 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:49:08 PM, HPWKA wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:45:44 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/2/2014 10:09:50 PM, HPWKA wrote:
1.) No person nor scientific theory has "disproved" the existence of God.

2.) If you don't believe in God, you could go to Hell.

3.) Believe in God, so you don't go to Hell.

Check and Mate. Your move Mr. Atheist.

Pascal is dead, leave him in peace.

This isn't a proper response. Address the points.

Sigh.....

1) Why are we presupposing that one is either an atheist or a Christian? There are dozens of other religions with their own hells, or lack of hells, to which one goes for a multiplicity of reasons. Also, one can be a theist but not believe in the existence of hell. One can be a theist for the FSM and believe that pasta-related things lead to heaven or hell. There is no reason to weight the Christian view so heavily vs. the thousands of other views on hell. How do you know that the deity that might exist doesn't like atheists? Maybe it only sends atheists to its heaven for their intellectual resilience. Etc.

2) Any reasonable God would not send the person to heaven who only believed in him/his Son to avoid punishment. They aren't any better than the child who is only good to get presents from Santa. In fact, I'm sure that God, if He does exist, would much prefer an atheist to a theist with such selfish and petty motives.

There's another way to look at that. God might not wish to present evidence of himself because he doesn't want followers who are only good to get presents from God. Maybe that's why it will always be an open question and we'll always be free to choose our own actions.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/3/2014 7:16:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
Schzincko, believing in "God" is a personal choice. Whether I believe in God, or do not believe in God is of no consequence to you. Trying to convince a person one way or another can and as you plainly stated, will become problematic when a person is firm in their own belief. One can not force or even compel a person to believe or disbelieve an idea that can not be proved or disproved. This is something that the individual comes to terms with on their own, based on their own experiences.

At the risk of getting blasted, this is how I see internet atheists. Most are searching for answers because they are not sure, they are not fully convinced in what they believe. Maybe they have no reason to believe. They have unanswered questions. The reason I say this is because I don't understand what compels a person who does not believe in something, to discuss what they do not believe in with people who do believe. This is counter intuitive to being rational. This is why I believe something else is driving these discussions. I don't believe in the UFO/ET phenomena, I don't believe in bigfoot, or lochness, or el chupacabra. But I have never felt compelled to go to sites where people who do believe in this to tell them they are wrong. To tell them I am right, to get into arguments with them on the nuances or the evidence. The reason for this is because I don't really care about it or have interest in the subject mater. I am not even on the fence. I have no interest in having the conversation. The reason is because I do not believe and I am not interested in being convinced. On the other hand, I do understand why people who do visit these sites or get into these discussions. It is because they want to share their experience and/or have questions about others experiences.

Does this mean all atheists actually do believe or want to believe or question their own belief. Of course not. My father was an atheist, my brother and most of my sisters are atheist. These people won't even have the conversation with you regarding the subject. When I was a boy, I asked my dad about God. He told me he did not believe in God. When I pressed the issue he told me - your mother believes in God, go talk to her about it. I get that now. What could a person who does not believe in something, tell me about that something. I never asked him why he did not believe in God and he did not feel compelled to convince me to see things his way or why he believed the way he believed. People firm in their belief are comfortable with the position they have taken. I get this response to something I do not believe in.

I can't convince you to believe in God. All I can do is tell you is it has been my conscious experience in life that God exists. Perhaps it has been your conscious experience God does not exist. To this, all I can say is -- that's okay too. It's your conscious and your experience. Make the most of what you do experience. Hope this helped.

Peace

I like this answer. :)
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
Schzincko, believing in "God" is a personal choice. Whether I believe in God, or do not believe in God is of no consequence to you. Trying to convince a person one way or another can and as you plainly stated, will become problematic when a person is firm in their own belief. One can not force or even compel a person to believe or disbelieve an idea that can not be proved or disproved. This is something that the individual comes to terms with on their own, based on their own experiences.

At the risk of getting blasted, this is how I see internet atheists. Most are searching for answers because they are not sure, they are not fully convinced in what they believe. Maybe they have no reason to believe. They have unanswered questions. The reason I say this is because I don't understand what compels a person who does not believe in something, to discuss what they do not believe in with people who do believe. This is counter intuitive to being rational. This is why I believe something else is driving these discussions. I don't believe in the UFO/ET phenomena, I don't believe in bigfoot, or lochness, or el chupacabra. But I have never felt compelled to go to sites where people who do believe in this to tell them they are wrong. To tell them I am right, to get into arguments with them on the nuances or the evidence. The reason for this is because I don't really care about it or have interest in the subject mater. I am not even on the fence. I have no interest in having the conversation. The reason is because I do not believe and I am not interested in being convinced. On the other hand, I do understand why people who do visit these sites or get into these discussions. It is because they want to share their experience and/or have questions about others experiences.

Does this mean all atheists actually do believe or want to believe or question their own belief. Of course not. My father was an atheist, my brother and most of my sisters are atheist. These people won't even have the conversation with you regarding the subject. When I was a boy, I asked my dad about God. He told me he did not believe in God. When I pressed the issue he told me - your mother believes in God, go talk to her about it. I get that now. What could a person who does not believe in something, tell me about that something. I never asked him why he did not believe in God and he did not feel compelled to convince me to see things his way or why he believed the way he believed. People firm in their belief are comfortable with the position they have taken. I get this response to something I do not believe in.

I can't convince you to believe in God. All I can do is tell you is it has been my conscious experience in life that God exists. Perhaps it has been your conscious experience God does not exist. To this, all I can say is -- that's okay too. It's your conscious and your experience. Make the most of what you do experience. Hope this helped.

Peace

You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.
didymus
Posts: 2
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5/3/2014 8:07:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am an atheist as well. My username "Didymus" reflects my ideas for several reasons: A Doubting Thomas is someone who doesn't believe without experience, and I can relate to this. Secondly, Thomas the Disciple in the bible (Also known as Didymus) didn't believe that Jesus came back, and he was able to accept that he was incorrect. (I like to think I am like this. This story is the origin of the "Doubting Thomas" term." Finally, he fell to not believe through faith, and he was still forgiven. If there is a God, I'd only worship him if was able to forgive ideas of doubt. (If it turned out my life was wrong, and I had to renounce my life of doubt and search of truth in order to gain His acceptance, I'd gladly take a life-time in Hell.)
That is the conditions in which I would actually serve a God in this life or after. My personal beliefs about God is that he A) is a creator, he created everything in this universe and he has left us on our own. B) is an observer, he watches us judging human's (individual or as a whole) potential and whether he will bless them or curse them in an afterlife. C) Is a programmer, and he designed the universe to act out and grow as he wished it to.
If there is a God, I don't believe he actually has any control (By choice or by lack of power) in our day-to-day lives. Good and Evil rises and falls equally, and if there was a Devil or demons he would have more than enough power to wipe them out. Thus, a major part of my belief (Whether there is a God or there isn't) is that he doesn't control us or the world around us. (At least directly, in the case of the Programmer idea).
In conclusion, I find that Atheism suits me best. (When I was a child, I was afraid of Hell. One day, I asked myself what if God isn't real? I then realized that my fear may not even have any ground in truth, and since then I have became much happier.)
I personally believe in the "Big Bounce" theory. (The idea that the universe extends to a certain point, then retracts back to a point before it becomes a singularity and brings another Big Bang.) As for the idea of life, I still think abiogenesis is probable.
Before I finish, just like to say It's nice to see an atheist who is open minded and doesn't immediately use the A, B, and C method of arguing.
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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5/3/2014 8:19:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM, Schzincko wrote:
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).
First, I want to say that I am not a fan of any philosophical arguments for the existence of God. Second, I am not a fan of any of the philosophical arguments against the existence of God. I believe that the most logical outcome of philosophy is agnostisim. The reason I believe in God is that I have personally experienced his presence in my life. I have decided to follow God. I think that it cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that god exists but neither can it be proven that he does not exist. God is outside our realm of understanding. We must venture out in faith. This is what I have done. Now, I know that many people think differently than I do. That is ok. That is your choice. All God has asked of me is that I share that he is there with open arms waiting for you. He loves you so much he was willing to die for you. All you have to do is take that step of faith. Could I be wrong? Maybe. Does this mean my life was wasted? No. This is one of the things that bothers me with a lot of christians. They think that they have to follow all these different rules or they will go to hell. When christianity should be more about courageously doing Gods will than about cautiously avoiding sin. I quote Bonhoeffer loosely there. We should be more focused on loving others than on our own self-righteousness. I think many christians will be surprised at who they see in heaven. I have no magical proof that God exists. I simply have faith. That is really all anyone has. That, and there own experience.
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Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/3/2014 8:29:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 8:21:04 PM, Schzincko wrote:
The idea behind this post is simple.
I've seen a lot of posts asking why atheists don't believe in a God. Most atheists will either A.) speak of an absence of evidence, B.) talk about our imperfect world, or C.) ask where any of these gods came from.

I don't usually stick with these reasons. Then again, I have yet to find another atheist that actually does share my exact belief and reasoning. Occasionally, I might throw suggestions of A or C in here and there when I'm asked about my disbelief in a god, but those are equally reversible, so I will try to keep my distance. Even through this page.

I have one goal for this on both sides of what I think might come in.

First of all, I would like to provide theists with a common goal. I'm not asking you to disprove atheism; we've all seen how that typically falls through on the other pages (In case you missed it: nobody gets anywhere and people become angry, ignorant fools). I'm asking you why I should believe there is a god. Build your justification into a respective argument.

Secondly, and I hadn't thought of doing this when I started typing, but I would like to get to know the typical atheist ideology. Yes, I know you don't believe in any god. That is self-explanatory when you say whether or not you are atheist. I'm looking to see just how many variations of atheism there are. What is your specific idea of origin? Big bang, maybe? The only reason I'm throwing this in is because my belief doesn't involve the big bang. And, seeing as that is what I think is the most common atheist ideology, I am curious to see if there are others like me.
Also, on request, I will gladly tell you all what I have come to believe and who knows? Maybe it will change.

Just please, people. Be respectful. I know I will tend to get a little on the offensive if I feel like I'm being called an idiot (which, let's be honest; nobody likes dealing with a raging internet user).

Find out for yourself. I'm not trying to be preachy or anything, but if you believe that the possibility of God existing is there, then don't try to convince yourself over the Internet. Try praying, asking for a simple favor or sign that he will show you he is listening, and if he exists, he will probably answer.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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5/3/2014 8:33:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.

You're correct. I had no childhood indoctrination into religion. Perhaps one of these days I will post my own understanding and experience of God. It will be a good opportunity to for both the religious and atheists to tell me I how wrong I am. lol - kidding. As for my post not being helpful -- well, not sure what to tell you other than maybe the message was not intended for you.
Conservative101
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5/3/2014 9:18:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/2/2014 9:13:01 PM, Schzincko wrote:
At 5/2/2014 8:32:22 PM, vankipp wrote:
Hi Schzincko,

Very cool topic! I'd like to take part, sharing my theistic perspective, but first can you describe your own views a bit more? Given the variety of views that get pulled under the label "atheist", I'd love some clarity on where you come from.

Are you a "strong" atheist, who believes in the truth of the proposition "There is no God"? Or an "a-theist" or "soft atheist" who lacks belief in God yet makes no truth claim whatsoever about God's existence? Or maybe you are something like a verificationist who claims that the propositions "God does not exist" and "God does exist" are both meaningless and have no truth value?


Welcome, vankipp.
Well, I've gotta say. I don't know a whole lot about anything, but I think hard on what I'm presented with. So I may have not even heard the right term to relate to. I simply found the term "atheist" to be the closest I could relate to, so here I am.

To answer the specifications of what you have given me, I would say I agree with the strong atheist portion to a certain extent because I do have my own ideas that deny the possibility of a god existing, but I am conflicted. I also find myself relating to the verificationist definition because nothing can be accepted as truth without solid proof. So I do find both of these arguments to be at a stalemate of nonsense, since there really is no way of proving either side quite yet. You know, unless somehow we trump death and see what happens (that was a joke).

Perhaps maybe this will shed some more light on what I'm saying:
My belief is that the universe has no origin, which is contrary to a massive percentage of the population's belief. It makes sense why people might not consider that as a possibility, considering the idea that the answer to that big question of "Where did we come from?" is what everyone is after.

The way I look at it is alternative. The universe has no origin/no beginning. It is constant. The miracle of life is that which comes from an endlessly living universal source. Yes, I know. My belief calls for outside life that maintains a constant cycle and that sounds ridiculous. Because the next question is, where did the life come from? My response: Where does life come from now? Other life. Reproduction at its finest. It's not that I have anything against the ideas of the big bang, or creationism, or anything else for that matter, but when I'm faced with either the idea that someone created something out of nothing or the idea that something appeared out of nothing, it makes me want to reject both.

Actually, there is evidence of the big bang. This theory is consistent with Einstein's equation of relativity and the second law of thermodynamics. Edwin Hubble, while peering through his telescope, discovered that galaxies were rapidly moving away from each other. NASA's COBE satellite has confirmed primordial background radiation that supports this theory. Many other findings support the big bang as well.


And so far, constant cycling is the only way I can imagine it to work out without explosions of life or magic (no offense intended. I have awful vocabulary skills).

As a result, I have no other terms to relate to (as a result of my awful vocab. skills) besides: atheist or "guy who believes we are alien colonists that came from other alien colonists that have no idea we're alien colonists because evolution changed us when we found Earth" (that was also intended to be a joke)
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/3/2014 9:46:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
Schzincko, believing in "God" is a personal choice. Whether I believe in God, or do not believe in God is of no consequence to you. Trying to convince a person one way or another can and as you plainly stated, will become problematic when a person is firm in their own belief. One can not force or even compel a person to believe or disbelieve an idea that can not be proved or disproved. This is something that the individual comes to terms with on their own, based on their own experiences.

At the risk of getting blasted, this is how I see internet atheists. Most are searching for answers because they are not sure, they are not fully convinced in what they believe. Maybe they have no reason to believe. They have unanswered questions. The reason I say this is because I don't understand what compels a person who does not believe in something, to discuss what they do not believe in with people who do believe. This is counter intuitive to being rational. This is why I believe something else is driving these discussions. I don't believe in the UFO/ET phenomena, I don't believe in bigfoot, or lochness, or el chupacabra. But I have never felt compelled to go to sites where people who do believe in this to tell them they are wrong. To tell them I am right, to get into arguments with them on the nuances or the evidence. The reason for this is because I don't really care about it or have interest in the subject mater. I am not even on the fence. I have no interest in having the conversation. The reason is because I do not believe and I am not interested in being convinced. On the other hand, I do understand why people who do visit these sites or get into these discussions. It is because they want to share their experience and/or have questions about others experiences.

Does this mean all atheists actually do believe or want to believe or question their own belief. Of course not. My father was an atheist, my brother and most of my sisters are atheist. These people won't even have the conversation with you regarding the subject. When I was a boy, I asked my dad about God. He told me he did not believe in God. When I pressed the issue he told me - your mother believes in God, go talk to her about it. I get that now. What could a person who does not believe in something, tell me about that something. I never asked him why he did not believe in God and he did not feel compelled to convince me to see things his way or why he believed the way he believed. People firm in their belief are comfortable with the position they have taken. I get this response to something I do not believe in.

I can't convince you to believe in God. All I can do is tell you is it has been my conscious experience in life that God exists. Perhaps it has been your conscious experience God does not exist. To this, all I can say is -- that's okay too. It's your conscious and your experience. Make the most of what you do experience. Hope this helped.

Peace

You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.

A lot of "believers" had no childhood indoctrination, and are pretty intelligent as well, although many agnostics/atheists seem to go to great lengths to make that sound unlikely. My father has always been an atheist, while my mother was more religious. My siblings and I were never pushed in one direction or the other. You see, however . . . most people who have come to the conclusion that a higher intelligence exists by way of their own independent intelligence seem to be reluctant to share the experience because they are smart enough to know they'll only be attacked for their reasoning. At least that has been my experience.
Idealist
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5/3/2014 9:50:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 8:33:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.

You're correct. I had no childhood indoctrination into religion. Perhaps one of these days I will post my own understanding and experience of God. It will be a good opportunity to for both the religious and atheists to tell me I how wrong I am. lol - kidding. As for my post not being helpful -- well, not sure what to tell you other than maybe the message was not intended for you.

This sounds like something I might have written myself. "Maybe one day . . ." If you're like me then you would like to be open about your experiences and reasoning, but you probably know how unreasonable the responses will likely be. :)
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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5/3/2014 10:02:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 9:50:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/3/2014 8:33:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.

You're correct. I had no childhood indoctrination into religion. Perhaps one of these days I will post my own understanding and experience of God. It will be a good opportunity to for both the religious and atheists to tell me I how wrong I am. lol - kidding. As for my post not being helpful -- well, not sure what to tell you other than maybe the message was not intended for you.

This sounds like something I might have written myself. "Maybe one day . . ." If you're like me then you would like to be open about your experiences and reasoning, but you probably know how unreasonable the responses will likely be. :)

It is funny you responded like you did (in both responses) as that is exactly what I was thinking. I sort of regretted implying I might post my experience because after thinking about it I realized I had no interest in debating or defending my own experiences. Once realizing this, I decided it would probably not benefit me or anyone else. Not on this site at least. I have found a site where that is far more rationale and open minded regarding matters of spirituality. What few atheists are on the site are understanding and considerate of other's views. People who become irrational or rude are simply suspended. If you like I can PM you the web address. We have chatted before - I think you might enjoy it.
Idealist
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5/3/2014 10:09:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 10:02:28 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/3/2014 9:50:30 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/3/2014 8:33:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.

You're correct. I had no childhood indoctrination into religion. Perhaps one of these days I will post my own understanding and experience of God. It will be a good opportunity to for both the religious and atheists to tell me I how wrong I am. lol - kidding. As for my post not being helpful -- well, not sure what to tell you other than maybe the message was not intended for you.

This sounds like something I might have written myself. "Maybe one day . . ." If you're like me then you would like to be open about your experiences and reasoning, but you probably know how unreasonable the responses will likely be. :)

It is funny you responded like you did (in both responses) as that is exactly what I was thinking. I sort of regretted implying I might post my experience because after thinking about it I realized I had no interest in debating or defending my own experiences. Once realizing this, I decided it would probably not benefit me or anyone else. Not on this site at least. I have found a site where that is far more rationale and open minded regarding matters of spirituality. What few atheists are on the site are understanding and considerate of other's views. People who become irrational or rude are simply suspended. If you like I can PM you the web address. We have chatted before - I think you might enjoy it.

Yeah, I would like that. It can be difficult having a story to tell and very few people to tell it to . . .
vankipp
Posts: 3
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5/3/2014 10:19:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Welcome, vankipp.
Well, I've gotta say. I don't know a whole lot about anything, but I think hard on what I'm presented with. So I may have not even heard the right term to relate to. I simply found the term "atheist" to be the closest I could relate to, so here I am.

To answer the specifications of what you have given me, I would say I agree with the strong atheist portion to a certain extent because I do have my own ideas that deny the possibility of a god existing, but I am conflicted. I also find myself relating to the verificationist definition because nothing can be accepted as truth without solid proof. So I do find both of these arguments to be at a stalemate of nonsense, since there really is no way of proving either side quite yet. You know, unless somehow we trump death and see what happens (that was a joke).

Perhaps maybe this will shed some more light on what I'm saying:
My belief is that the universe has no origin, which is contrary to a massive percentage of the population's belief. It makes sense why people might not consider that as a possibility, considering the idea that the answer to that big question of "Where did we come from?" is what everyone is after.

The way I look at it is alternative. The universe has no origin/no beginning. It is constant. The miracle of life is that which comes from an endlessly living universal source. Yes, I know. My belief calls for outside life that maintains a constant cycle and that sounds ridiculous. Because the next question is, where did the life come from? My response: Where does life come from now? Other life. Reproduction at its finest. It's not that I have anything against the ideas of the big bang, or creationism, or anything else for that matter, but when I'm faced with either the idea that someone created something out of nothing or the idea that something appeared out of nothing, it makes me want to reject both.

And so far, constant cycling is the only way I can imagine it to work out without explosions of life or magic (no offense intended. I have awful vocabulary skills).

As a result, I have no other terms to relate to (as a result of my awful vocab. skills) besides: atheist or "guy who believes we are alien colonists that came from other alien colonists that have no idea we're alien colonists because evolution changed us when we found Earth" (that was also intended to be a joke)

Thanks for elaborating! I like your honest, commonsense manner, and I can relate to the difficulty of finding the right "label" for your beliefs. I'm interested in your thoughts on evidence and your idea of an endlessly living universal source. Maybe we can discuss evidence first. For you, what count as valid forms of evidence? Or maybe put differently, what are the forms of knowledge that you find reliable? The options I can think of include empirical data, mathematical proofs, logic/reason, literary analysis, historical analysis, and direct experience...there might be more that I am missing...
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/3/2014 11:25:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 8:33:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.

You're correct. I had no childhood indoctrination into religion. Perhaps one of these days I will post my own understanding and experience of God. It will be a good opportunity to for both the religious and atheists to tell me I how wrong I am. lol - kidding. As for my post not being helpful -- well, not sure what to tell you other than maybe the message was not intended for you.

Right, but you failed to tell us what made you a believer. I'll guess at it.
When a person becomes a believer it's nearly always because of some traumatic incident in his/her life. Death of a loved one, recovery from illness or injury, even loss of a husband/wife through divorce will cause a temporary conversion to religion.

Would you like to tell us how you were convinced to become a Christian?

One of the most dramatic conversions to the Mormon religion was when a man I knew came home and caught his wife in his bed with another man. He converted and became a strict Mormon elder for 5 or 6 years before he went all to hell again and became one of the worst gangsters in town. He didn't have the childhood indoctrination either so it became an unusual case. Very instructive though!

Keep yours to yourself if you are ashamed of it.
PeacefulChaos
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5/3/2014 11:32:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/3/2014 11:25:40 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 8:33:31 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/3/2014 7:33:17 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/3/2014 1:53:16 PM, SemperVI wrote:
You're interesting because it's pretty likely that you didn't receive the childhood indoctrination into religion. That's because you make it pretty clear that your siblings didn't. So tell us about your conscious experiences in life that made you a believer. "That" would be interesting to hear and that's when you will start helping. Your post failed to do that.

You're correct. I had no childhood indoctrination into religion. Perhaps one of these days I will post my own understanding and experience of God. It will be a good opportunity to for both the religious and atheists to tell me I how wrong I am. lol - kidding. As for my post not being helpful -- well, not sure what to tell you other than maybe the message was not intended for you.

Right, but you failed to tell us what made you a believer. I'll guess at it.

He didn't really "fail."

This isn't a debate. The purpose of his post and the thread isn't necessarily to show what made him a believer. That seems to be of your own personal interest.