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Christianity: Jesus yes, YEC no...?

Ragnar
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5/7/2014 9:02:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
(trying this again, the last one had a non-Christian highjacker who mistook this for the funny forum)

As a former Christian and current Atheist, I have no wish to insult anyone's beliefs. However I am very curious how people go about deciding which parts of the bible are factual?

Young Earth Creation (YEC) seems to be rejected by most.

Everything Jesus did seems to be accepted by most.

So for those who believe in YEC, why must such be true? And more importantly for those who believe in the miracles of Jesus but not YEC, why must Jesus be true, while the other parts of the bible being inspirational myths?
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matt.mcguire88
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5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 9:02:13 AM, Ragnar wrote:
(trying this again, the last one had a non-Christian highjacker who mistook this for the funny forum)

As a former Christian and current Atheist, I have no wish to insult anyone's beliefs. However I am very curious how people go about deciding which parts of the bible are factual?

Young Earth Creation (YEC) seems to be rejected by most.

I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Everything Jesus did seems to be accepted by most.

So for those who believe in YEC, why must such be true? And more importantly for those who believe in the miracles of Jesus but not YEC, why must Jesus be true, while the other parts of the bible being inspirational myths?

There is no choosing or rejecting anything for me, as for the teachings and life of Jesus that is what is relevant in the life of any Christian because that is our pattern and example to follow.
Ragnar
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5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.
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matt.mcguire88
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5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.
annanicole
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5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.

Correct. There is no chronology in the Bible regarding creation, really. As to the "days", who knows? It is not a matter of faith.

All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
monty1
Posts: 1,084
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5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.

Correct. There is no chronology in the Bible regarding creation, really. As to the "days", who knows? It is not a matter of faith.

All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

Most American Christians are YEC's who are just afraid to admit it to atheists for fear of being laughed at.

That's encouraging because it indicates that sky fairy beliefs are being beaten back into their churches where they are the only ones harmed. Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.
Idealist
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5/7/2014 11:47:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.

Correct. There is no chronology in the Bible regarding creation, really. As to the "days", who knows? It is not a matter of faith.

All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

Most American Christians are YEC's who are just afraid to admit it to atheists for fear of being laughed at.

That's encouraging because it indicates that sky fairy beliefs are being beaten back into their churches where they are the only ones harmed. Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.

Why would you ever believe that? I live in the "Bible Belt," yet I had never even heard of YEC until I was 40+ years old. Even now I've rarely met a Christian who claims that the Earth is only 6,000 years old. It seems to me that you are only supposing what you want to suppose because it fits into your own paradigm of the ignorant, red-neck religious "hick". Have you ever taken time to consider the fact that more than half of Americans with a college+ degree find the idea of a creator to be quite acceptable?
Ragnar
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5/7/2014 11:52:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

I am not asking anyone to "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively." I am asking for those who already draw those lines, to explain where they draw them and why.

I wish to understand a certain mechanism of belief, not belittle the beliefs of others by telling people if common sense makes it unlikely to have happened, they should not believe it.
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Ragnar
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5/7/2014 11:54:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
That's encouraging because it indicates that sky fairy beliefs are being beaten back into their churches where they are the only ones harmed. Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.

If you want to bash beliefs, please do so elsewhere.
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Mhykiel
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5/8/2014 2:28:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 11:52:27 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

I am not asking anyone to "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively." I am asking for those who already draw those lines, to explain where they draw them and why.

I wish to understand a certain mechanism of belief, not belittle the beliefs of others by telling people if common sense makes it unlikely to have happened, they should not believe it.

A lot is lost when reading english translations of the bible. In the hebrew and greek there are structural patterns, and word choices that elaborate to how to properly conceptualize the thought being read about.

Man has a way of making traditions. Notice the "Lord's Prayer" and churchs added the lines: "For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, for ever and ever" this last phrase is not in the bible.

But Jesus before saying the lord's prayer was admonishing the public display of prayer, and the repetition of the same prayer phrases. The lord's prayer was Jesus giving an example of a way to pray.

Worst thing to happen to Christianity were Christians.
Religions splinter over time for reasons like that.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/8/2014 4:10:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.

Correct. There is no chronology in the Bible regarding creation, really. As to the "days", who knows? It is not a matter of faith.

All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

Most American Christians are YEC's who are just afraid to admit it to atheists for fear of being laughed at.

Not at all, I'm not afraid of Atheists nor their opinions. I'm not a cheater, liar or a sales men, I am here to share what I believe to be true and what I know is true of scripture. I also DO NOT pick and choose or change my beliefs for anyone... ever..... just for future reference.

That's encouraging because it indicates that sky fairy beliefs are being beaten back into their churches where they are the only ones harmed. Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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5/8/2014 4:53:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.

Correct. There is no chronology in the Bible regarding creation, really. As to the "days", who knows? It is not a matter of faith.

All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

Most American Christians are YEC's

[citation needed]

who are just afraid to admit it to atheists for fear of being laughed at.

Because theists are of course the only people to hold unsicentific and illogical opinions.

https://www.youtube.com....

That's encouraging because it indicates that sky fairy beliefs are being beaten back into their churches where they are the only ones harmed. Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.

That's a lot of projection and assumptions you've got there.
matt.mcguire88
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5/8/2014 5:40:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 4:53:32 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.

Correct. There is no chronology in the Bible regarding creation, really. As to the "days", who knows? It is not a matter of faith.

All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

Most American Christians are YEC's

[citation needed]

who are just afraid to admit it to atheists for fear of being laughed at.

Because theists are of course the only people to hold unsicentific and illogical opinions.

Science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Christianity: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Science can't handle God, it's not equipped. To formulate truth about God you need a spiritual source, that is what Christianity is and that is what the Bible focuses on. That is why our opinions are unscientific in nature, as for "illogical" I'm just gonna have to disagree.


https://www.youtube.com....

That's encouraging because it indicates that sky fairy beliefs are being beaten back into their churches where they are the only ones harmed. Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.

That's a lot of projection and assumptions you've got there.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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5/8/2014 5:48:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 5:40:03 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Christianity: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Religion: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Fixed that for ya.

There are thousands of religions and throughout humanity's existence perhaps millions.
matt.mcguire88
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5/8/2014 6:31:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 5:48:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/8/2014 5:40:03 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Christianity: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Religion: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Fixed that for ya.

There are thousands of religions and throughout humanity's existence perhaps millions.

Thanks Bulproof!! But right now I'm talking about the Bible.
matt.mcguire88
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5/8/2014 6:40:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 5:48:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/8/2014 5:40:03 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Christianity: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Religion: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Fixed that for ya.

There are thousands of religions and throughout humanity's existence perhaps millions.

And don't forget that I still love you lol
bulproof
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5/8/2014 6:49:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 6:40:48 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/8/2014 5:48:24 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/8/2014 5:40:03 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Christianity: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Religion: the intellectual, practical and systematic study of the structure and behavior of our spiritual world through observation, experience and reason.

Fixed that for ya.

There are thousands of religions and throughout humanity's existence perhaps millions.

And don't forget that I still love you lol

Mwaaahhhh
annanicole
Posts: 19,790
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5/8/2014 9:32:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:31:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/7/2014 1:20:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/7/2014 10:36:34 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/7/2014 9:21:51 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
I'm not aware of any "age" of the Earth in scripture, therefore there is no need to speculate anything about how old it is.

Genesis 1. Earth and all life on it was made in a week. Mankind literally made within a day of that.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

This is a very broad assessment and there really is no need for me to assert any "age" of the Earth. I would have to form an opinion and speculate, and I never really assumed that this was not imagery used to confine space and relay simple concepts. However the "first day" wasn't established until God divided the day from the night, verse 1 and 2 give us no time frame at all, to declare any specific age is an assertion.

Correct. There is no chronology in the Bible regarding creation, really. As to the "days", who knows? It is not a matter of faith.

All he's doing is trying to force someone into a literal interpretation, knowing full well that the Bible is replete with figurative language. As far as "take it all literally" or "take it all figuratively" .... that's nonsense. Common sense is the guide.

Most American Christians are YEC's who are just afraid to admit it to atheists for fear of being laughed at.

And most atheists really believe that intricate complexity of the universe started from either (1) nothing or (2) chaos, and progressed to the present structure of the cosmos and life on earth, with no contributor in the absence of a transcendent intelligence. They seldom word it that way, for fear of being laughed out of the conversation.

That's encouraging because it indicates that sky fairy beliefs are being beaten back into their churches where they are the only ones harmed. Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.

Mormons and JW's? Two cults?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Ragnar
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5/8/2014 9:58:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/8/2014 9:32:45 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/7/2014 6:17:57 PM, monty1 wrote:
Most American Christians are YEC's who are just afraid to admit it to atheists for fear of being laughed at.

And most atheists really believe that intricate complexity of the universe started from either (1) nothing or (2) chaos, and progressed to the present structure of the cosmos and life on earth, with no contributor in the absence of a transcendent intelligence. They seldom word it that way, for fear of being laughed out of the conversation.

That is pretty much the definition of atheism. Which as an atheist I fully agree with.


Those that spread the word of the god are Mormons and JW's who go door to door and they're most often just asked to leave the property before they get hosed down.

Mormons and JW's? Two cults?

If you wish to insult religion, please do so elsewhere.
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