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Christians: How much of the bible is factual?

Ragnar
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5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction, how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.
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Keltron
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5/9/2014 10:01:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I recommend: The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel, by Israel Finkelstein, and Neil Asher Silberman.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/9/2014 10:28:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM, Ragnar wrote:
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction, how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.

It's impossible to answer this question fairly. The Bible, I think, is largely allegorical, but it contains many things. It contains histories of the Jewish people, Jewish genealogy, common wisdom from throughout the years, plenty of prophecy, and lots of personal experience. There is no way that we can say whether a person's own experience was true. All we can do is decide whether to personally believe it or not. If you have no belief in spiritual transcendence then you are likely to dismiss large portions of the Bible out-of-hand, where others might find a great lesson from it. In many ways the Bible is the soul of an entire people. That alone makes it a special book.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,286
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5/10/2014 12:14:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM, Ragnar wrote:
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction, how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.

Every bit of the bible contains the truth necessary for the salvation of your soul.
Ragnar
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5/10/2014 4:11:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@Keltron: I might check out that book this summer.

@Idealist: It's not about a fair answer, it's about your personal answer. I wholly agree that it is a special book (or series of books technically).

@Geogeer: While I initially laughed, I still must thank you for the bravery of your honest answer.
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bulproof
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5/10/2014 4:59:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I stole this sig from a Jewish poster on another forum. Maybe it says it best.

"The Torah is true, and some of it may even have happened." --Rabbi William Gershon
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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5/10/2014 11:44:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/10/2014 4:11:21 AM, Ragnar wrote:
@Keltron: I might check out that book this summer.

@Idealist: It's not about a fair answer, it's about your personal answer. I wholly agree that it is a special book (or series of books technically).

@Geogeer: While I initially laughed, I still must thank you for the bravery of your honest answer.

ah, the easy superiority of the self-assured atheist! Experience tells me you won't check out the book as you already think you know enough.

As for the question of the OP, it is silly. Even the Bible itself says some parts of it are allegory, or the accounts of dubious people. The question exposes how immature is your understanding of what the Bible is.

But not to worry. You're an atheist so you must be right.

It's initial now. You can laugh.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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5/10/2014 12:10:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM, Ragnar wrote:
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction, how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.

I don't know. I read the Bible as a book of theology. This being said there are many things I would accept as either non-fiction or fiction. One of the only things I can confidently say actually happened was most of the New Testament. Meaning Jesus actually lived, was crucified, died for our sins, resurrected, ect.
Nolite Timere
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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5/10/2014 12:20:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/10/2014 11:44:49 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 5/10/2014 4:11:21 AM, Ragnar wrote:
@Keltron: I might check out that book this summer.

@Idealist: It's not about a fair answer, it's about your personal answer. I wholly agree that it is a special book (or series of books technically).

@Geogeer: While I initially laughed, I still must thank you for the bravery of your honest answer.

ah, the easy superiority of the self-assured atheist! Experience tells me you won't check out the book as you already think you know enough.

As for the question of the OP, it is silly. Even the Bible itself says some parts of it are allegory, or the accounts of dubious people. The question exposes how immature is your understanding of what the Bible is.

But not to worry. You're an atheist so you must be right.

It's initial now. You can laugh.
The final line attributed to me (highlighted in bold) is both senseless, and a fabrication. Either I did say that (can be confirmed in my actual post above), or ethang5 mental facilities are compromised, or ethang5 is greatly lacking in integrity.

Anyway ethang5, someone with a lesser understanding of the bible, asking questions of it is now both "silly" and "immature." That you want knowledge of the bible kept away from those who do not already have said knowledge, is quite revealing about you (hopefully not about any church you attend). First you claims that I'm a a liar for being both an atheist and interested in reading books (or otherwise expanding my knowledge... I guess no atheist pursues college degrees), then you edit the quotation lines to add things I did not say.

Your record shows you are on a debate site, yet have taken part in zero debates. Then you come in here calling people "silly" "immature" liars, proceeding to outright lie about what they said. There is no question remaining as to why you're here... Go away forum troll.
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Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/10/2014 3:44:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
All of it. The Bible shouldn't be taken literally all the time, and I think some of the teachings are misunderstood, but I believe it all to be true.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/10/2014 5:01:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM, Ragnar wrote:
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction,
I'm not quite sure about the word "fiction", I don't know if I would say that, for example: I am not completely sold on the idea that the flood is not a literal event, or that Moses never actually saw God, I think those kinds of things to be based on fact, as for the sequences of events I wouldn't approach them as fiction.
Now the word I would replace with fiction is imagery or what I call spiritual concepts which I would like to add are also based upon fact. What I would suggest for you is to distinguish that which could be "factual" for that which could be used as imagery or concepts.
For example in the beginning God formed man from the dust..... this is a no brainer it is imagery in a vision, a lot of the imagery in the Bible is due to spiritual visions, those visions were received by the author and they wrote as they saw.
Now in the NT and within Jesus' teachings these are without a doubt based upon fact, BUT these principles are spiritual, it's not a "scientific" thing, it as a spiritual thing. Take for example Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus in John 3, read it and view it as fact on a spiritual level, when you begin to trust God you do this more and more.

how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/10/2014 6:14:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM, Ragnar wrote:
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction, how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.

Many Christians believe that bolded statement is what the bible intended in the first place.
annanicole
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5/10/2014 7:30:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/10/2014 11:44:49 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 5/10/2014 4:11:21 AM, Ragnar wrote:
@Keltron: I might check out that book this summer.

@Idealist: It's not about a fair answer, it's about your personal answer. I wholly agree that it is a special book (or series of books technically).

@Geogeer: While I initially laughed, I still must thank you for the bravery of your honest answer.

ah, the easy superiority of the self-assured atheist! Experience tells me you won't check out the book as you already think you know enough.

As for the question of the OP, it is silly.

"Silly" is an understatement. More like a waste of keystrokes.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/10/2014 9:52:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM, Ragnar wrote:
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction, how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.

I think the bible is like a love letter most of the time.

In a love letter some way may say stuff like: My love will last as long as water runs down hill, or burn as hot to set the lakes of the sun ablaze, or my love so infinite I can hold it in my hand and give it to you.

All those sayings have a bit of science behind it. Water runs downhill but we can find a way where gravity is light and water viscosity makes it run uphill. Some my say the sun does not have lakes, others will say hydrogen is burned in the sun. Some will say infinite can not fit in the hand but Hawking and others have mathematically said you could put an infinite dimension into an extra-dimensional space.

So do you call the love letter unscientific and that means the love expressed is wrong?

Or do you call it what it is: a Love letter and the truth is expressed in imagery to help comprehend a magnitude that is unknowable in everyday experience.
Ragnar
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5/11/2014 11:44:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
@xXCryptoXx: Out of curiosity, is there any part you outright reject? If so why?

@Conservative101: Thank you for your input.

@matt.mcguire88: I meant no offense with the word choice of fiction, as it's defined as (by Merriam-Webster) "written stories about people and events that are not real: literature that tells stories which are imagined by the writer." That places no judgement on how it was imagined, an inspired writing would still fall under that umbrella standard. As for Imagery, defined as "language that causes people to imagine pictures in their mind," while getting to the heart of word choices, it leaves the basic question unanswered.

@stubs: Interesting. The churches I used to attend, did not hold that view. Probably a conflict in denominations.

@annanicole: You come in here to do nothing more than insult the idea of anyone asking questions of the bible, saying the pursuit of knowledge about it is a waste of keystrokes (and therefore a waste of oxygen)... As I said to the madman/liar you are trying to support "That you want knowledge of the bible kept away from those who do not already have said knowledge, is quite revealing about you (hopefully not about any church you attend)."

@Mhykiel: That seems to be a pretty good way to look at it. And no, I do not call a love letter wrong, even if I do not personally believe in the love in question within the confines of my own life (truth is such a subjective thing, that even if I'm right, it would not make someone else wrong for believing in God). However the love letter in question states certain actions, people surviving the near impossible, while others died in nearly impossible ways. Do you believe all the people mentioned in the bible lived as stated within the love letter, and died in at least similar ways to those stated?
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annanicole
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5/11/2014 12:26:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 11:44:03 AM, Ragnar wrote:
@xXCryptoXx: Out of curiosity, is there any part you outright reject? If so why?

@Conservative101: Thank you for your input.

@matt.mcguire88: I meant no offense with the word choice of fiction, as it's defined as (by Merriam-Webster) "written stories about people and events that are not real: literature that tells stories which are imagined by the writer." That places no judgement on how it was imagined, an inspired writing would still fall under that umbrella standard. As for Imagery, defined as "language that causes people to imagine pictures in their mind," while getting to the heart of word choices, it leaves the basic question unanswered.

@stubs: Interesting. The churches I used to attend, did not hold that view. Probably a conflict in denominations.

@annanicole: You come in here to do nothing more than insult the idea of anyone asking questions of the bible, saying the pursuit of knowledge about it is a waste of keystrokes (and therefore a waste of oxygen)... As I said to the madman/liar you are trying to support "That you want knowledge of the bible kept away from those who do not already have said knowledge, is quite revealing about you (hopefully not about any church you attend)."

I have no problem with anyone asking fair, appropriate - and sincere - questions about the Bible or engaging in the pursuit of knowledge.

You didn't bother to inform us as to exactly what percentage of the Bible you deem to be factual. You say you believe "the basic story of Noah". Somehow I doubt that:

(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Now I think when those little queries are answered, we'll come to find out that you believe that maybe a big rain came at some point back in shadows of antiquity. Maybe. That's about it. So you see, I'm not "against knowledge".

I am also aware that Peter, among others, verified the story of Noah and the flood as truth. When predicting the siege of Jerusalem, Jesus also referred to the narrative concerning Noah. Thus if someone rejects the story of Noah and the flood, he is in turn rejecting Jesus and Peter in the NT. We'll see how much of the Noah narrative you really accept.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
superflymegastallion
Posts: 370
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5/11/2014 1:09:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/9/2014 7:52:57 PM, Ragnar wrote:
As it seems agreed by (nearly) everyone that at least certain sections of the bible are fiction, how much of the bible do you personally believe to be non-fiction? You're welcome to include any good examples of parts you feel are factual, or fictional.

For example while I could not say how much is non-fiction (I could randomly guess a tenth, but to what point?), I can give a decent example of part I believe in: I believe the basic story of Noah. Keeping in mind the author was not God looking down on the world, but someone telling the account of a flood over an area that to the people in the story was their whole world... I do not however believe interpretations of such a series of events, to to be God's punishment.
Not so much of how much is factual. Everybody has a different opinion.
This 50% is correct and the rest isn't.
Nope, that 50% is wrong, and the rest isn't.
So, based on personal beliefs, this question can't be really answered.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/11/2014 2:36:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 11:44:03 AM, Ragnar wrote:
@xXCryptoXx: Out of curiosity, is there any part you outright reject? If so why?

@Conservative101: Thank you for your input.

@matt.mcguire88: I meant no offense with the word choice of fiction, as it's defined as (by Merriam-Webster) "written stories about people and events that are not real: literature that tells stories which are imagined by the writer." That places no judgement on how it was imagined, an inspired writing would still fall under that umbrella standard. As for Imagery, defined as "language that causes people to imagine pictures in their mind," while getting to the heart of word choices, it leaves the basic question unanswered.

@stubs: Interesting. The churches I used to attend, did not hold that view. Probably a conflict in denominations.

@annanicole: You come in here to do nothing more than insult the idea of anyone asking questions of the bible, saying the pursuit of knowledge about it is a waste of keystrokes (and therefore a waste of oxygen)... As I said to the madman/liar you are trying to support "That you want knowledge of the bible kept away from those who do not already have said knowledge, is quite revealing about you (hopefully not about any church you attend)."

@Mhykiel: That seems to be a pretty good way to look at it. And no, I do not call a love letter wrong, even if I do not personally believe in the love in question within the confines of my own life (truth is such a subjective thing, that even if I'm right, it would not make someone else wrong for believing in God). However the love letter in question states certain actions, people surviving the near impossible, while others died in nearly impossible ways. Do you believe all the people mentioned in the bible lived as stated within the love letter, and died in at least similar ways to those stated?

Well even when stories are stretched a bit by hyperbole usually names and gist remain the same.
Keltron
Posts: 161
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5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?
Composer
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5/12/2014 2:38:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/10/2014 12:14:44 AM, Geogeer wrote:
Every bit of the bible contains the truth necessary for the salvation of your soul.
What do you mean by ' a soul? '.

Your supportive evidence required?
Composer
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5/12/2014 2:40:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/10/2014 3:44:46 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
All of it. The Bible shouldn't be taken literally all the time, and I think some of the teachings are misunderstood, but I believe it all to be true.
What parts shouldn't we take as literal?

Comprehensive List with your reasons required?
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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5/12/2014 2:47:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM, Keltron wrote:
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?

Sheesh, you atheists.
Yes Spock cleaned out the stables of Hercules the Vulcan.
I mean......................... puhleeeease.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/12/2014 4:02:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 2:47:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM, Keltron wrote:
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?

Sheesh, you atheists.
Yes Spock cleaned out the stables of Hercules the Vulcan.
I mean......................... puhleeeease.

You guys would have the hardest time believing some modern history accounts. That's right stuff that has happened in recorded time, If I told you happened 1000 years ago you would say fantasy or myth.

Your thinking is stifled and limited in execution.

The idea of Hercules redirected rivers to clean the stables is nothing new nor rather supernatural! it has been used many times, sometimes whole towns were purposefully control flooded and drained during the black plague.

How about the time a boat, The Habakkuk, bigger than a house was made out of ice or rather pykrete.

Or that ranch owner that climbed devils tower by driving wooden stakes into the side, making a ladder of pegs he could climb up 2000 feet on.

I am so glad the world I live in, you know reality, is a little bit more "magical" then yours.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/12/2014 4:25:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 4:02:38 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/12/2014 2:47:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM, Keltron wrote:
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?

Sheesh, you atheists.
Yes Spock cleaned out the stables of Hercules the Vulcan.
I mean......................... puhleeeease.

You guys would have the hardest time believing some modern history accounts. That's right stuff that has happened in recorded time, If I told you happened 1000 years ago you would say fantasy or myth.

Your thinking is stifled and limited in execution.

The idea of Hercules redirected rivers to clean the stables is nothing new nor rather supernatural! it has been used many times, sometimes whole towns were purposefully control flooded and drained during the black plague.

How about the time a boat, The Habakkuk, bigger than a house was made out of ice or rather pykrete.

Or that ranch owner that climbed devils tower by driving wooden stakes into the side, making a ladder of pegs he could climb up 2000 feet on.

I am so glad the world I live in, you know reality, is a little bit more "magical" then yours.

Correction devil's tower is 1000 feet high. Oops almost grew a legend there.
ethang5
Posts: 4,117
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5/12/2014 7:20:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/10/2014 12:20:02 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 5/10/2014 11:44:49 AM, ethang5 wrote:
At 5/10/2014 4:11:21 AM, Ragnar wrote:

@Keltron: I might check out that book this summer.

@Idealist: It's not about a fair answer, it's about your personal answer. I wholly agree that it is a special book (or series of books technically).

@Geogeer: While I initially laughed, I still must thank you for the bravery of your honest answer.

ah, the easy superiority of the self-assured atheist! Experience tells me you won't check out the book as you already think you know enough.

As for the question of the OP, it is silly. Even the Bible itself says some parts of it are allegory, or the accounts of dubious people. The question exposes how immature is your understanding of what the Bible is.

But not to worry. You're an atheist so you must be right.

It's initial now. You can laugh.
The final line attributed to me (highlighted in bold) is both senseless, and a fabrication.

It was not attributed to you. You said you "initially laughed" at Geogeer's comment. Now that I've also made a comment, it's initial now, you can laugh at me too.

But you didn't laugh. You got huffy.

Either I did say that (can be confirmed in my actual post above), or ethang5 mental facilities are compromised, or ethang5 is greatly lacking in integrity.

Or everyone can see from your post on the same page, that you didn't post it. Don't be so paranoid. Simmer down. If your arguments are good, you won't have to out-of-the-gate start to accuse people of lying.

Anyway ethang5, someone with a lesser understanding of the bible, asking questions of it is now both "silly" and "immature."

Yes, if that person comes on as some superior nitwit who has the audacity to mention that he laughed at a sincere Christian who expressed his opinion on your post. That was condescending, and you got the response you deserved. Geogeer is a classy guy. I'm not. With me, you act like a fool, you will get treated like one.

That you want knowledge of the bible kept away from those who do not already have said knowledge,

If you admit ignorance, from whence the laughter at an opinion different from yours? Do you know how many times we've seen a duplicitous atheist come on here oozing fake "searcher of truth" credentials? Also, I could not keep you away from knowledge of the Bible even if I wanted to. And I don't want to.

First you claims that I'm a a liar for being both an atheist and interested in reading books (or otherwise expanding my knowledge...

You must have read that in the bones of your witch doctor kit cause you certainly didn't get it from my post. I called you self-assured and full of yourself. I don't know if you're a liar. Yet.

I guess no atheist pursues college degrees,

lol. From you to "no atheist" at all huh? Hopefully you will take a few logic classes before you leave college.

Your record shows you are on a debate site, yet have taken part in zero debates.

Yeah, that must mean I'm Satan himself. You refuse to mention your gender on your profile, but are able to say you're "interested in women". I have to verify my account with a phone number to debate. Which is harder? Writing down your gender, or going through the layered process of verifying a number? Yet my zero debates is what you find to castigate? Funny.

Then you come in here calling people "silly" "immature" liars,

I called your question silly. It is. If you think that also means you're silly, that is reasonable but don't lie and say I called you silly. You are immature. Your writing says so. That isn't a fault, everyone starts out immature. I did not call you a liar. I am not responsible for your conscience.

There is no question remaining as to why you're here... Go away forum troll.

As you get to know me you will find that I do not care about your opinion of me or what names you childishly want to call me. But I will certainly not go away. When you show your true colors, which you can't help but do sooner or later, I will be right there to point out your silliness.

Tell us this summer when you "check out" that book. ok?
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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5/12/2014 7:47:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 4:25:17 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/12/2014 4:02:38 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/12/2014 2:47:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM, Keltron wrote:
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?

Sheesh, you atheists.
Yes Spock cleaned out the stables of Hercules the Vulcan.
I mean......................... puhleeeease.

You guys would have the hardest time believing some modern history accounts. That's right stuff that has happened in recorded time, If I told you happened 1000 years ago you would say fantasy or myth.

Your thinking is stifled and limited in execution.

The idea of Hercules redirected rivers to clean the stables is nothing new nor rather supernatural! it has been used many times, sometimes whole towns were purposefully control flooded and drained during the black plague.

How about the time a boat, The Habakkuk, bigger than a house was made out of ice or rather pykrete.

Or that ranch owner that climbed devils tower by driving wooden stakes into the side, making a ladder of pegs he could climb up 2000 feet on.

I am so glad the world I live in, you know reality, is a little bit more "magical" then yours.

Correction devil's tower is 1000 feet high. Oops almost grew a legend there.

The world and universe in which I exist is amazing, incredible, fantastic.
I just don't need a skydaddy sitting on a throne just above the earth's atmosphere.
You, on the other hand, are welcome to use fantasy to try vainly to make your universe as outstanding as mine. Good luck.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/12/2014 2:00:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 7:47:20 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/12/2014 4:25:17 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/12/2014 4:02:38 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/12/2014 2:47:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM, Keltron wrote:
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?

Sheesh, you atheists.
Yes Spock cleaned out the stables of Hercules the Vulcan.
I mean......................... puhleeeease.

You guys would have the hardest time believing some modern history accounts. That's right stuff that has happened in recorded time, If I told you happened 1000 years ago you would say fantasy or myth.

Your thinking is stifled and limited in execution.

The idea of Hercules redirected rivers to clean the stables is nothing new nor rather supernatural! it has been used many times, sometimes whole towns were purposefully control flooded and drained during the black plague.

How about the time a boat, The Habakkuk, bigger than a house was made out of ice or rather pykrete.

Or that ranch owner that climbed devils tower by driving wooden stakes into the side, making a ladder of pegs he could climb up 2000 feet on.

I am so glad the world I live in, you know reality, is a little bit more "magical" then yours.

Correction devil's tower is 1000 feet high. Oops almost grew a legend there.

The world and universe in which I exist is amazing, incredible, fantastic.
I just don't need a skydaddy sitting on a throne just above the earth's atmosphere.
You, on the other hand, are welcome to use fantasy to try vainly to make your universe as outstanding as mine. Good luck.

I don't have an invisible sky daddy that sits on a throne. That is a weak anthropomorphic straw man you are trying to have represent my god.

If you don't think a man could dig 2 ditches and redirect a river to clean some stables. Then you don't know what a man with desire can accomplish.

"The world and universe in which I exist is amazing, incredible, fantastic" I find that hard to believe coming from you. I'm aware of many fantastic real facts and scientifically accepted truths that you don't understand and reject.
Peili
Posts: 1
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5/12/2014 3:19:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Interesting question, but it depends on how you define "fiction." For instance, the gospels record Jesus teaching in parables. I think that Jesus did teach in parables, but the parables themselves are fictional stories. Do the accounts of people telling parables count as fiction or non-fiction? What about the Psalms? Songs of praise don"t exactly fit well into the category of fiction or non-fiction. Are proverbs fiction or non-fiction?
Keltron
Posts: 161
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5/12/2014 8:07:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 4:02:38 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/12/2014 2:47:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM, Keltron wrote:
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?

Sheesh, you atheists.
Yes Spock cleaned out the stables of Hercules the Vulcan.
I mean......................... puhleeeease.

You guys would have the hardest time believing some modern history accounts. That's right stuff that has happened in recorded time, If I told you happened 1000 years ago you would say fantasy or myth.

Your thinking is stifled and limited in execution.

The idea of Hercules redirected rivers to clean the stables is nothing new nor rather supernatural! it has been used many times, sometimes whole towns were purposefully control flooded and drained during the black plague.

The point is that like Noah, Hercules is a mythological character. Arguing over what mythological characters could have done is silly. Equally silly is purporting the historicity of a mythological character based on the mention of him by another mythological character.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/12/2014 8:29:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 8:07:24 PM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/12/2014 4:02:38 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/12/2014 2:47:15 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/11/2014 11:41:08 PM, Keltron wrote:
(1) Did God speak to Noah?
(2) Did God tell Noah to build an ark?
(3) Did Noah build an ark to the specifications set forth by God?
(4) Did the rains fall and the fountains of the deep open for forty days and forty nights?
(5) Did the ark of Noah come to rest atop Mount Ararat?
(6) Even if local, was all human life in Palestine, North Africa, Egypt, etc. wiped out by this flood?
(7) Did God tell Noah to replenish the earth?
(8) Did God place the rainbow in the sky as a sign?

Did Hercules really clean out the stables? Was Spock really a Vulcan?

Sheesh, you atheists.
Yes Spock cleaned out the stables of Hercules the Vulcan.
I mean......................... puhleeeease.

You guys would have the hardest time believing some modern history accounts. That's right stuff that has happened in recorded time, If I told you happened 1000 years ago you would say fantasy or myth.

Your thinking is stifled and limited in execution.

The idea of Hercules redirected rivers to clean the stables is nothing new nor rather supernatural! it has been used many times, sometimes whole towns were purposefully control flooded and drained during the black plague.

The point is that like Noah, Hercules is a mythological character. Arguing over what mythological characters could have done is silly. Equally silly is purporting the historicity of a mythological character based on the mention of him by another mythological character.

The sands of time have wiped so many people from this earth, erased so many cities. So many people and things that are lost but still kept in a social memory. All kind of things a mass of people believe and are eventually proven true. You need only look at discoveries of new animals in the 19th to 20th century to see this trend of mythological creatures migrating into the realm of accepted science. Like gorillas, bonobos, giant squid, orangutang, ceolocanths, megalania, pythons, etc... All were once deemed mythical or nonexistant

Notice how dinosaurs are being drawn with feathers and quills. They are actually looking more and more like descriptions of Cockatrice.

Giant squids were thought to be mythological, till scientist got bodies and recorded one on video. Oh wait.. That's why you don't believe in Jesus. There is no body to recover and they didn't have his life posted on youtube.