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why i dont believe in god.

steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

So your problem is the "Evil problem" in this world yep? there are suffering,starvation , death and stuff...so how God exist (if he is Good)? so here your thinking:

- If a good God that is all powerful exists
- Evil exists
- Therefore a good God that is all powerful does not exist.

This conclusion assumes:

- If God is omnipotent(all powerful), then He can create any world He wants - For example, a world where all human beings always do the right thing and do not fall into evil or suffering. However, this would mean that God would deprive us of the freedom to choose and compulsion is not a characteristic that God imposes on humans.

- If God is good, then He prefers a world without evil.
The above two hidden premises assume a very Christian type of God as you stated and secondly that God doesn"t have any reason to permit evil and suffering in the world.

But in Islam we do not believe that God is only good and omnipotent. Allah (God) is the most beneficent, most merciful, the all loving and these attributes do predominate. And at the end, when good and evil are differentiated we will see the mercy predominates over the wrath.
Nevertheless Allah is also the overwhelming, the avenger, the judge, the most wise " the world is the endlessly subtle interaction of ninety nine names of Allah, that includes names of rigour as well as names of beauty". (there are 99 attributes of of God).

So why God permit evil and suffering?
Quran 67:2-
"The one who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds; He is the all-mighty, the all-forgiving."

in Islam, health, wealth, poverty, sickness etc are not signs of success or failure; rather they are a means of testing the individual to determine their response to a particular situation. But even when faced with hardships in life, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "No calamity befalls a Muslim, but that Allah expiates some of his sins because of it, even though it were the prick from a thorn."

Moreover, just because our intellectual capacity is limited and we can"t evaluate what the wisdom is, doesn"t mean it isn"t there. For instance, in some cases, sickness results in the build up of immunity, earthquakes relieve pent up pressures within the earth, volcanoes spew out minerals resulting in rich fertile soil for agriculture. There is an ancient wisdom that states "Out of the snakes poison comes the antidote".3 How else can one appreciate goodness without having experienced hardship to use as a comparator? Would it be possible to appreciate good health if illness did not occur?

Afflictions can also help individuals return to the obedience of God. In many cases, the returning to Allah and having full reliance on Him opens up doors that one could never have imagined.
The Muslim believes that evil exists, but not gratuitous or pure evil as this is based on human subjectivity. The proponent of the problem of evil faces a dilemma as God is required as a rational basis for objective good and evil. Without God these terms are relative as there is no conceptual anchor, (apart from God Himself) which overcomes the issue of human subjectivity. So it could be argued that:

If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist
Evil exists
Therefore objective moral values exist, therefore God exists.

In the absence of God, there are only two possible alternatives " social pressures and evolution. However, both these alternatives claim that our morality is dependent on biological and social changes. Therefore morality cannot be binding. Therefore without God there is no objective basis for morality. So in response to the atheist, the Muslim or theist may ask:

"How can the atheist formulate an argument against the existence of God when God is required as an objective basis for the formulation of the argument in the first place?"

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

1 "How amazing is the case of the believer; there is good for him in everything, and this characteristic is exclusively for him alone. If he experiences something pleasant, he is thankful, and that is good for him; and if he comes across some adversity, he is patient, and that is good for him."

there are other reasons in islam why person afflicted with hardships like in the Quran it says: 2152
1 And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return." Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

OR 29:2
2 Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?

in detail - http://www.thinkislam.com...
Never fart near dog
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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5/12/2014 10:46:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

There is much in here that needs to be addressed, but you seem like one who is searching. So instead of giving you a canned response, I'm going to attach a video of an excellent philosopher who addresses many of the points you question. It is one of the most intelligent presentations from a Christian viewpoint that you'll find.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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5/12/2014 11:31:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
i think we would all be smarter and created equally.

I think people are created equally, because I believe all can have same understanding and everything eventually equally well.

At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent

I agree that the evil in this world is caused by humans.

At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge.

I think all who want to know evil from wrong, can know it. And in my opinion God has not left us alone to think that. God has given Law and commandments so that we could know. Many people just don"t want to hear it because they love more evil than good.

At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life

According to the Bible, people were expelled from paradise. Therefore I think this can be seen as punishment. However I think this is not exactly punishment. I think this is more like lesson, because people wanted to know good and evil like God. We are here learning what is good and evil. Those who love more good have opportunity to come back to life.

Most assuredly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 5:24

In that "believes" is from word "pisteuo", which really means: commit unto.

At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith.

I think faith means faithfulness. People should be faithful to God, because it means that they keep God" commandments that are fulfilled in this:

Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not give false testimony," "You shall not covet," [TR adds "You shall not give false testimony,"] and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love doesn't harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10

If you meant believe, then I think it would be good to understand that all "knowledge" depends on believing. Nothing is "knowledge" to you until you believe it.

I think all really "knows" that God is, some just want to fight against that and don"t want to believe.
steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/12/2014 12:32:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!

no i want god to be decent and if he put us here to suffer when we did nothing before hand to deserve it and if he punishes children for the sins of their parents then he isnt decent. your just too stupid to understand what im saying
steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/12/2014 12:36:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

So your problem is the "Evil problem" in this world yep? there are suffering,starvation , death and stuff...so how God exist (if he is Good)? so here your thinking:

- If a good God that is all powerful exists
- Evil exists
- Therefore a good God that is all powerful does not exist.

This conclusion assumes:

- If God is omnipotent(all powerful), then He can create any world He wants - For example, a world where all human beings always do the right thing and do not fall into evil or suffering. However, this would mean that God would deprive us of the freedom to choose and compulsion is not a characteristic that God imposes on humans.

- If God is good, then He prefers a world without evil.
The above two hidden premises assume a very Christian type of God as you stated and secondly that God doesn"t have any reason to permit evil and suffering in the world.

But in Islam we do not believe that God is only good and omnipotent. Allah (God) is the most beneficent, most merciful, the all loving and these attributes do predominate. And at the end, when good and evil are differentiated we will see the mercy predominates over the wrath.
Nevertheless Allah is also the overwhelming, the avenger, the judge, the most wise " the world is the endlessly subtle interaction of ninety nine names of Allah, that includes names of rigour as well as names of beauty". (there are 99 attributes of of God).

So why God permit evil and suffering?
Quran 67:2-
"The one who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds; He is the all-mighty, the all-forgiving."

in Islam, health, wealth, poverty, sickness etc are not signs of success or failure; rather they are a means of testing the individual to determine their response to a particular situation. But even when faced with hardships in life, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "No calamity befalls a Muslim, but that Allah expiates some of his sins because of it, even though it were the prick from a thorn."

Moreover, just because our intellectual capacity is limited and we can"t evaluate what the wisdom is, doesn"t mean it isn"t there. For instance, in some cases, sickness results in the build up of immunity, earthquakes relieve pent up pressures within the earth, volcanoes spew out minerals resulting in rich fertile soil for agriculture. There is an ancient wisdom that states "Out of the snakes poison comes the antidote".3 How else can one appreciate goodness without having experienced hardship to use as a comparator? Would it be possible to appreciate good health if illness did not occur?

Afflictions can also help individuals return to the obedience of God. In many cases, the returning to Allah and having full reliance on Him opens up doors that one could never have imagined.
The Muslim believes that evil exists, but not gratuitous or pure evil as this is based on human subjectivity. The proponent of the problem of evil faces a dilemma as God is required as a rational basis for objective good and evil. Without God these terms are relative as there is no conceptual anchor, (apart from God Himself) which overcomes the issue of human subjectivity. So it could be argued that:

If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist
Evil exists
Therefore objective moral values exist, therefore God exists.

In the absence of God, there are only two possible alternatives " social pressures and evolution. However, both these alternatives claim that our morality is dependent on biological and social changes. Therefore morality cannot be binding. Therefore without God there is no objective basis for morality. So in response to the atheist, the Muslim or theist may ask:

"How can the atheist formulate an argument against the existence of God when God is required as an objective basis for the formulation of the argument in the first place?"

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

1 "How amazing is the case of the believer; there is good for him in everything, and this characteristic is exclusively for him alone. If he experiences something pleasant, he is thankful, and that is good for him; and if he comes across some adversity, he is patient, and that is good for him."

there are other reasons in islam why person afflicted with hardships like in the Quran it says: 2152
1 And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return." Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

OR 29:2
2 Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?

in detail - http://www.thinkislam.com...

so you dont think god could have given us free will while not allowing children and adults to suffer from evil and misfortune? first of all if he knows the future he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people. your saying that god couldnt have given us free will without us suffering from evil is implying that god isnt all powerful so thanks
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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5/12/2014 1:09:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

Steffen, there is a way to deal with the "evil problem" and to gradually reduce the problem of gratuitous violence and suffering in the world. The answer requires you and me to be examples of light in our communities. We have to be examples of the world we want to live it. There is a solution to the "evil problem" but it requires you and me to reject evil no matter the circumstances we're put through. There is a better way of living in the world; we must reject the evil inclinations in us no matter what!

"Be the change you want to see in the world." --Mahatma Ghandi.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 12:36:52 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

So your problem is the "Evil problem" in this world yep? there are suffering,starvation , death and stuff...so how God exist (if he is Good)? so here your thinking:

- If a good God that is all powerful exists
- Evil exists
- Therefore a good God that is all powerful does not exist.

This conclusion assumes:

- If God is omnipotent(all powerful), then He can create any world He wants - For example, a world where all human beings always do the right thing and do not fall into evil or suffering. However, this would mean that God would deprive us of the freedom to choose and compulsion is not a characteristic that God imposes on humans.

- If God is good, then He prefers a world without evil.
The above two hidden premises assume a very Christian type of God as you stated and secondly that God doesn"t have any reason to permit evil and suffering in the world.

But in Islam we do not believe that God is only good and omnipotent. Allah (God) is the most beneficent, most merciful, the all loving and these attributes do predominate. And at the end, when good and evil are differentiated we will see the mercy predominates over the wrath.
Nevertheless Allah is also the overwhelming, the avenger, the judge, the most wise " the world is the endlessly subtle interaction of ninety nine names of Allah, that includes names of rigour as well as names of beauty". (there are 99 attributes of of God).

So why God permit evil and suffering?
Quran 67:2-
"The one who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds; He is the all-mighty, the all-forgiving."

in Islam, health, wealth, poverty, sickness etc are not signs of success or failure; rather they are a means of testing the individual to determine their response to a particular situation. But even when faced with hardships in life, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "No calamity befalls a Muslim, but that Allah expiates some of his sins because of it, even though it were the prick from a thorn."

Moreover, just because our intellectual capacity is limited and we can"t evaluate what the wisdom is, doesn"t mean it isn"t there. For instance, in some cases, sickness results in the build up of immunity, earthquakes relieve pent up pressures within the earth, volcanoes spew out minerals resulting in rich fertile soil for agriculture. There is an ancient wisdom that states "Out of the snakes poison comes the antidote".3 How else can one appreciate goodness without having experienced hardship to use as a comparator? Would it be possible to appreciate good health if illness did not occur?

Afflictions can also help individuals return to the obedience of God. In many cases, the returning to Allah and having full reliance on Him opens up doors that one could never have imagined.
The Muslim believes that evil exists, but not gratuitous or pure evil as this is based on human subjectivity. The proponent of the problem of evil faces a dilemma as God is required as a rational basis for objective good and evil. Without God these terms are relative as there is no conceptual anchor, (apart from God Himself) which overcomes the issue of human subjectivity. So it could be argued that:

If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist
Evil exists
Therefore objective moral values exist, therefore God exists.

In the absence of God, there are only two possible alternatives " social pressures and evolution. However, both these alternatives claim that our morality is dependent on biological and social changes. Therefore morality cannot be binding. Therefore without God there is no objective basis for morality. So in response to the atheist, the Muslim or theist may ask:

"How can the atheist formulate an argument against the existence of God when God is required as an objective basis for the formulation of the argument in the first place?"

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

1 "How amazing is the case of the believer; there is good for him in everything, and this characteristic is exclusively for him alone. If he experiences something pleasant, he is thankful, and that is good for him; and if he comes across some adversity, he is patient, and that is good for him."

there are other reasons in islam why person afflicted with hardships like in the Quran it says: 2152
1 And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return." Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

OR 29:2
2 Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?

in detail - http://www.thinkislam.com...

so you dont think god could have given us free will while not allowing children and adults to suffer from evil and misfortune? first of all if he knows the future he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people. your saying that god couldnt have given us free will without us suffering from evil is implying that god isnt all powerful so thanks

well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.
Never fart near dog
steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/12/2014 4:47:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 1:09:34 PM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

Steffen, there is a way to deal with the "evil problem" and to gradually reduce the problem of gratuitous violence and suffering in the world. The answer requires you and me to be examples of light in our communities. We have to be examples of the world we want to live it. There is a solution to the "evil problem" but it requires you and me to reject evil no matter the circumstances we're put through. There is a better way of living in the world; we must reject the evil inclinations in us no matter what!

"Be the change you want to see in the world." --Mahatma Ghandi.

ok what does this have to do with god being evil and the existence of god? i cant make everyone reject evil so alot of people are still going to suffer from it. i dont know what the hell your point is with that.
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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5/12/2014 7:52:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.

How does that work? He knows that Joe Bloggs is in hell but he creates JB anyway. Can JB prove god wrong and go to heaven? The test results are known before creation, so there is no test.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Idealist
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5/12/2014 9:28:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

So if you support just about any country in the world, or the law, or any one of dozens of things then you are worthless since all those things have caused people to suffer and die. Even science and atheism have led to their own large share.
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5/12/2014 9:30:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!

It's surprising how many people hate "God" for not being what they think a god should be.
Idealist
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5/12/2014 9:33:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 12:32:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!

no i want god to be decent and if he put us here to suffer when we did nothing before hand to deserve it and if he punishes children for the sins of their parents then he isnt decent. your just too stupid to understand what im saying

Did it ever occur to you that adults are responsible for the suffering of children, or even other children? Every parent knows how downright mean children can be toward each other. It seems like you hate God for what people do.
PureX
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5/12/2014 10:56:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

I also reject the god that was handed to me by shallow and ignorant religionists, for many of the reasons that you mentioned. But then it occurred to me one day that those people don't know any more about God than I do. They're just making it up. Worse, they're just blindly regurgitating ideas about God that someone else made up. And so I realized that I could make up my own idea of God. And I could invent my own 'religion' to follow. So that's what I did. And I like it. It works very well for me. It's lots better than having no faith in any 'higher power' at all.

You may want to consider it.
Idealist
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5/12/2014 11:27:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 12:36:52 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

So your problem is the "Evil problem" in this world yep? there are suffering,starvation , death and stuff...so how God exist (if he is Good)? so here your thinking:

- If a good God that is all powerful exists
- Evil exists
- Therefore a good God that is all powerful does not exist.

This conclusion assumes:

- If God is omnipotent(all powerful), then He can create any world He wants - For example, a world where all human beings always do the right thing and do not fall into evil or suffering. However, this would mean that God would deprive us of the freedom to choose and compulsion is not a characteristic that God imposes on humans.

- If God is good, then He prefers a world without evil.
The above two hidden premises assume a very Christian type of God as you stated and secondly that God doesn"t have any reason to permit evil and suffering in the world.

But in Islam we do not believe that God is only good and omnipotent. Allah (God) is the most beneficent, most merciful, the all loving and these attributes do predominate. And at the end, when good and evil are differentiated we will see the mercy predominates over the wrath.
Nevertheless Allah is also the overwhelming, the avenger, the judge, the most wise " the world is the endlessly subtle interaction of ninety nine names of Allah, that includes names of rigour as well as names of beauty". (there are 99 attributes of of God).

So why God permit evil and suffering?
Quran 67:2-
"The one who created death and life, so that He may put you to test, to find out which of you is best in deeds; He is the all-mighty, the all-forgiving."

in Islam, health, wealth, poverty, sickness etc are not signs of success or failure; rather they are a means of testing the individual to determine their response to a particular situation. But even when faced with hardships in life, the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "No calamity befalls a Muslim, but that Allah expiates some of his sins because of it, even though it were the prick from a thorn."

Moreover, just because our intellectual capacity is limited and we can"t evaluate what the wisdom is, doesn"t mean it isn"t there. For instance, in some cases, sickness results in the build up of immunity, earthquakes relieve pent up pressures within the earth, volcanoes spew out minerals resulting in rich fertile soil for agriculture. There is an ancient wisdom that states "Out of the snakes poison comes the antidote".3 How else can one appreciate goodness without having experienced hardship to use as a comparator? Would it be possible to appreciate good health if illness did not occur?

Afflictions can also help individuals return to the obedience of God. In many cases, the returning to Allah and having full reliance on Him opens up doors that one could never have imagined.
The Muslim believes that evil exists, but not gratuitous or pure evil as this is based on human subjectivity. The proponent of the problem of evil faces a dilemma as God is required as a rational basis for objective good and evil. Without God these terms are relative as there is no conceptual anchor, (apart from God Himself) which overcomes the issue of human subjectivity. So it could be argued that:

If God did not exist, then objective moral values would not exist
Evil exists
Therefore objective moral values exist, therefore God exists.

In the absence of God, there are only two possible alternatives " social pressures and evolution. However, both these alternatives claim that our morality is dependent on biological and social changes. Therefore morality cannot be binding. Therefore without God there is no objective basis for morality. So in response to the atheist, the Muslim or theist may ask:

"How can the atheist formulate an argument against the existence of God when God is required as an objective basis for the formulation of the argument in the first place?"

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

1 "How amazing is the case of the believer; there is good for him in everything, and this characteristic is exclusively for him alone. If he experiences something pleasant, he is thankful, and that is good for him; and if he comes across some adversity, he is patient, and that is good for him."

there are other reasons in islam why person afflicted with hardships like in the Quran it says: 2152
1 And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient,Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return." Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

OR 29:2
2 Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?

in detail - http://www.thinkislam.com...

so you dont think god could have given us free will while not allowing children and adults to suffer from evil and misfortune? first of all if he knows the future he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people. your saying that god couldnt have given us free will without us suffering from evil is implying that god isnt all powerful so thanks

I don't know whether God is an omniscient power or not, but if he is that doesn't mean he can interfere with something which is "free" and still call it free. Even science teaches us not to interfere in such a way as to affect the results, at least not if you want them to be honest ones. Let's say that "God" did show himself to the people of Earth and gave them a demonstration of his power and nature. Would we then still be as free to reject him completely as we're free to do now, or would we be influenced by fear of him?
Idealist
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5/12/2014 11:32:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 12:36:52 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.

Personally I don't believe in Hell, but if a day of judgement ever comes then I think it will be we who judge ourselves, not God or some Godly court. I don't think it would be possible to lie in the presence of perfection, and so we would automatically know our worth and be filled with gladness, regret, or likely both.
Geogeer
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5/12/2014 11:47:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 11:32:44 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 12:36:52 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.

Personally I don't believe in Hell, but if a day of judgement ever comes then I think it will be we who judge ourselves, not God or some Godly court. I don't think it would be possible to lie in the presence of perfection, and so we would automatically know our worth and be filled with gladness, regret, or likely both.

You're getting awfully close to Catholic theology with that statement!
Idealist
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5/12/2014 11:56:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 11:47:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2014 11:32:44 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 12:36:52 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.

Personally I don't believe in Hell, but if a day of judgement ever comes then I think it will be we who judge ourselves, not God or some Godly court. I don't think it would be possible to lie in the presence of perfection, and so we would automatically know our worth and be filled with gladness, regret, or likely both.

You're getting awfully close to Catholic theology with that statement!

Really? I've never heard a Catholic make that claim, but then I'm no expert. I thought that Catholics actually believed there was a class-system in Heaven - that how enjoyable your place in Heaven turns out to be is a direct result of how good you were during your life on Earth? My GF is a hospice nurse and she's told me quite often that of all the people she's had to watch die, it is always the Catholics who die the hardest, especially the clergy, because they believe they must go through Hell before they get to Heaven? Anyway, it's for reasons like this that I have trouble dealing with religion in general.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,227
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5/13/2014 12:44:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 11:56:03 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/12/2014 11:47:47 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 5/12/2014 11:32:44 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 12:36:52 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 1:32:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:

well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.

Personally I don't believe in Hell, but if a day of judgement ever comes then I think it will be we who judge ourselves, not God or some Godly court. I don't think it would be possible to lie in the presence of perfection, and so we would automatically know our worth and be filled with gladness, regret, or likely both.

You're getting awfully close to Catholic theology with that statement!

Really? I've never heard a Catholic make that claim, but then I'm no expert. I thought that Catholics actually believed there was a class-system in Heaven - that how enjoyable your place in Heaven turns out to be is a direct result of how good you were during your life on Earth? My GF is a hospice nurse and she's told me quite often that of all the people she's had to watch die, it is always the Catholics who die the hardest, especially the clergy, because they believe they must go through Hell before they get to Heaven? Anyway, it's for reasons like this that I have trouble dealing with religion in general.

Catholic theology states that nothing imperfect can enter the presence of God. Thus after you die and all of the physical veil is removed we are confronted with ourselves in a manner that we can no longer lie to ourselves. If we are not in a state of grace we will flee from the perfect love of God because to be imperfect in the presence of pure love would be far more painful that the pains of hell. Thus the soul would flee to hell to avoid God.

Catholic theology teaches that a soul who is in a state of Grace, but still has attachments to sin must be purified in purgatory prior to entering God's presence.

A good lecture on this is attached for you... The discussion of this is from approximately minutes 18-35...

http://youtu.be...
Iredia
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5/13/2014 6:53:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

First, you know God exists. YOU, Steffon66, have a conscience. Only dishonest people will deny that kids tend to believe in a God of sorts, atheists parents simply use hullaballoo to cover up the fact that they quench it out. I would go for the tortous path of answering your statements piece by piece but I would ask you this question. Which is better among the following. An eternal life of bliss as God has determined, or scientific knowledge with that good and evil, or oblivion. Choose carefully please.
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
POPOO5560
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5/13/2014 7:46:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 7:52:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.

How does that work? He knows that Joe Bloggs is in hell but he creates JB anyway. Can JB prove god wrong and go to heaven? The test results are known before creation, so there is no test.

The fact we are exist blame God why took the trouble to create all things, the most wise and just.
Never fart near dog
bulproof
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5/13/2014 8:59:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/13/2014 7:46:12 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 7:52:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/12/2014 3:38:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
well God knows everything the future past and present. as you said he could have put bad people with bad people and good people with good people at the first place and even not creating the universe.. but without testing us in a "real time" it will be unfair for us, why God will punish about thing that didnt happen? it will be unjust.
So you know God is just and on the day of judgement there wont be an excuses, everyone will have a chance, and if God throws you to hellfire without testing blame him for not testing you, it doesnt matter if he knows the future or not.

How does that work? He knows that Joe Bloggs is in hell but he creates JB anyway. Can JB prove god wrong and go to heaven? The test results are known before creation, so there is no test.

The fact we are exist blame God why took the trouble to create all things, the most wise and just.

Strong in this one indoctrination it is.
Ever considered thinking?

If you ever do...........................try to answer my questions.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
steffon66
Posts: 240
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5/14/2014 1:57:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/13/2014 6:53:49 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

First, you know God exists. YOU, Steffon66, have a conscience. Only dishonest people will deny that kids tend to believe in a God of sorts, atheists parents simply use hullaballoo to cover up the fact that they quench it out. I would go for the tortous path of answering your statements piece by piece but I would ask you this question. Which is better among the following. An eternal life of bliss as God has determined, or scientific knowledge with that good and evil, or oblivion. Choose carefully please.

so i know god exists because i have a conscience? lol no i dont. the conscience consists of vague remenisciences of precepts heard in early youth. that doesnt sound like proof of god to me. also believing isnt knowing so id say that you dont know theres a god either. and i contend that we are both atheists. i just believe in one less god than you do. when you realise why you should dismiss all other possible gods then you will realise why i dismiss yours.
steffon66
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5/14/2014 2:01:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 10:56:59 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

I also reject the god that was handed to me by shallow and ignorant religionists, for many of the reasons that you mentioned. But then it occurred to me one day that those people don't know any more about God than I do. They're just making it up. Worse, they're just blindly regurgitating ideas about God that someone else made up. And so I realized that I could make up my own idea of God. And I could invent my own 'religion' to follow. So that's what I did. And I like it. It works very well for me. It's lots better than having no faith in any 'higher power' at all.

You may want to consider it.

how the hell do you make up a god and have faith in it. you really think your made up god is going to just happen to be the one true god. right... your a ninny
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/15/2014 2:48:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 12:32:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!

no i want god to be decent and if he put us here to suffer when we did nothing before hand to deserve it and if he punishes children for the sins of their parents then he isnt decent. your just too stupid to understand what im saying

Yes that's what I said, you want God to be something from your imagination, God was way before you, He is not Going to be what you want!.

This world is a place of trial, trial can be with good and can be with evil. it's not a place of settlement , it's a hotel that we are leaving soon. then there will be reward and punishment.

I mean when you see a child suffering, this is not a punishment, but a trial for the parents , this child is going to forget this in the real life after death. this world is illusion compared to hereafter.

If you see a person in full health and wealth, they aren't rewarded but tried, they maybe the biggest sinners, but won't receive their punishment until after death.

Basically judgement day isn't here, how can you judge when you even ignore the purpose of our creation ?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/15/2014 2:54:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 12:32:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!

no i want god to be decent and if he put us here to suffer when we did nothing before hand to deserve it and if he punishes children for the sins of their parents then he isnt decent. your just too stupid to understand what im saying

Show me where it says he punishes the children for the sins of their fathers? God punishes people for the sins they commit.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/15/2014 3:02:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/12/2014 9:33:44 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/12/2014 12:32:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!

no i want god to be decent and if he put us here to suffer when we did nothing before hand to deserve it and if he punishes children for the sins of their parents then he isnt decent. your just too stupid to understand what im saying

Did it ever occur to you that adults are responsible for the suffering of children, or even other children? Every parent knows how downright mean children can be toward each other. It seems like you hate God for what people do.

You want to hear a funny story. In the early days of video game making, the programs crashed a lot. Most games were like pong or grand prix. They had no real end just enjoy playing. Developers thought they would eventually make games that people could walk and talk in doing what ever they wanted. During Research and Development a game crashed while a test player was trying something. The test player thought he had died. And he wanted to try again and again. It gave him a bigger rush then just playing nice. Now games have death and suffering in them. Is this a sick God? or sick people?
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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5/15/2014 4:53:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/15/2014 2:48:07 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/12/2014 12:32:15 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 5:32:59 AM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

You have one big issue: you want God to be the way you want Him to be, God is who he is, not who you want Him to be !!

no i want god to be decent and if he put us here to suffer when we did nothing before hand to deserve it and if he punishes children for the sins of their parents then he isnt decent. your just too stupid to understand what im saying

Yes that's what I said, you want God to be something from your imagination, God was way before you, He is not Going to be what you want!.
God is something in all believers imaginations, I don't get what you are saying.
This world is a place of trial, trial can be with good and can be with evil. it's not a place of settlement , it's a hotel that we are leaving soon. then there will be reward and punishment.
The verdict for the trial was brought in before creation. The judge already has that verdict, those allegedly being tested can do nothing to change that verdict.
I mean when you see a child suffering, this is not a punishment, but a trial for the parents , this child is going to forget this in the real life after death. this world is illusion compared to hereafter.
What real life after death? That is a fantasy created by men.
If you see a person in full health and wealth, they aren't rewarded but tried, they maybe the biggest sinners, but won't receive their punishment until after death.
It doesn't matter at all, the verdict is in before creation.
Basically judgement day isn't here, how can you judge when you even ignore the purpose of our creation ?
Judgement day happened before creation. Looking forward to an ancient decision would seem ridiculous, don't you think?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
PureX
Posts: 1,519
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5/15/2014 8:58:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 2:01:47 PM, steffon66 wrote:
At 5/12/2014 10:56:59 PM, PureX wrote:
At 5/11/2014 12:32:11 PM, steffon66 wrote:
well for starters im hoping there isnt a god who would do this to us when we didnt even exist before this life to have done something to deserve this bs. also i think if we had a god there wouldnt be idiots like most of the people on this website. i think we would all be smarter and created equally. i dont think god would make some high and some low as suggested by religious people. i dont think innocent children would be suffering. the bible says that god punishes children for the sins of their parents. all religions make god look horrible and so does our reality so i hope he doesnt exist. the reason we have evil is because most people are morally incompetent which is why our morality is constantly changing. if there was a god i think we would know right from wrong and its clear to any smart person that most people do not know right from wrong. god wouldnt leave us alone to figure out right and wrong on our owns just watching people suffer because of the lack of his knowledge. no perfect or decent god would do this which is why i hope god doesnt exist because if one does exist then he is evil unless this is a punishment for something we did in a previous life and no religion says that. your ignorant if you think god is good. the conception of god came from ancient oriental despotism and i highly doubt that would be the origin of the belief in god if a god existed. i think we would know god exists if god existed and it wouldnt be a matter of faith. that or we would all not know as this is necessary for us to truely be tested. christians and other religious people need to grow up and stop believing in sugar plum fairies and perfect beings that come from nothing and create imperfect worlds with people who are too incompetent to be good to others. if you support religions that have made people burn and torture others for their beliefs then fu** you.

I also reject the god that was handed to me by shallow and ignorant religionists, for many of the reasons that you mentioned. But then it occurred to me one day that those people don't know any more about God than I do. They're just making it up. Worse, they're just blindly regurgitating ideas about God that someone else made up. And so I realized that I could make up my own idea of God. And I could invent my own 'religion' to follow. So that's what I did. And I like it. It works very well for me. It's lots better than having no faith in any 'higher power' at all.

You may want to consider it.

how the hell do you make up a god and have faith in it. you really think your made up god is going to just happen to be the one true god. right... your a ninny

I understand that faith is not 'making believe' that I know something that I don't. So for me, "God" is an ideal that may or may not be true, but that I want to be true. And because there is no proof or reason to believe that my ideal of God is not true, I can choose to live as if it is. And I find that in doing so, my life is better than when I lived as if God was what other people told me God was, or when I lived as if there was no God at all.