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I am bored of debating...

GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/9/2010 8:29:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
...Whether God exists, whether evolution happened or not. No one gives up their post in these things.

Isn't it something more deeper. Sin possibly?
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/9/2010 8:59:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I was not aware that you'd ever participated in such debates.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/9/2010 10:55:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Most people here do not believe in Sin, so inevitably it will return to the issue of 'is there a God', which inevitably leads on to the non-arguments about creationism.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/9/2010 11:18:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Christianity is a sin.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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2/9/2010 11:20:54 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/9/2010 11:18:01 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Christianity is a sin.

<3
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/9/2010 11:29:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/9/2010 11:18:01 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Christianity is a sin.

Now thats hardly fair, they can't help the way they were born. Though I do hear some of them want the right to get married and even adopt kids which I consider a little bit too much. I mean come on can we even trust them around kids?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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2/9/2010 12:14:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Godsands,
Why not study creationism more? Our problem with you and Datcmoto is that each of you refuse to study the theory of evolution or YEC. I have been asking for a YEC methodology for two months on the forums and neither you nor Datcmoto will comment. Why do you support your position? What science do you accept? Why? Have you read the seminal books on YEC? Have you read Origin of Species? If you are bored then learn more about your position and challenge us. In addition, some of your debates are very hard to follow as the philosophical positions you offer make little sense. If you are in school, then present what you learn and try to write about the subject coherently and people will respond.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/10/2010 2:58:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/9/2010 12:14:09 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:
Godsands,
Why not study creationism more? Our problem with you and Datcmoto is that each of you refuse to study the theory of evolution or YEC. I have been asking for a YEC methodology for two months on the forums and neither you nor Datcmoto will comment. Why do you support your position? What science do you accept? Why? Have you read the seminal books on YEC? Have you read Origin of Species? If you are bored then learn more about your position and challenge us. In addition, some of your debates are very hard to follow as the philosophical positions you offer make little sense. If you are in school, then present what you learn and try to write about the subject coherently and people will respond.


I know how evolution works, and I know what creationism intails. It isn't about the evidence so much, it is more about what the person wants to hear. Trust me, if I gave you a handful of evidence for YEC you would not believe in YEC. You would make the YEC evidence turn to be evidence for evolution. For example, common designer, no actually common ancestor.

If you are waiting for Josh Crisp (me) to give you evidence, then why don't you just go on YEC sites such as Drdino.com? But I am saying sin or for those who do not believe in sin, their actions motivate them to believe in certain things. You act before you believe.

If your actions were fit for the Christian God, believe me, you would believe in the Christian God. If your actions suit the theory of evolution, believe me you will believe in evolution.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/10/2010 3:14:10 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 2:58:32 AM, GodSands wrote:
You would make the YEC evidence turn to be evidence for evolution. For example, common designer, no actually common ancestor.

Wait, wait, wait. Evidence of something is evidence of it. We don't use plate tectonics to explain itching in uncomfortable places. If you had evidence of a designer (glad to see you implicitly at least acknowledge you don't), it would be evidence of a designer.

Of course what you and I consider evidence most likely barely correlates.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/10/2010 3:21:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/10/2010 3:14:10 AM, Puck wrote:
At 2/10/2010 2:58:32 AM, GodSands wrote:
You would make the YEC evidence turn to be evidence for evolution. For example, common designer, no actually common ancestor.

Wait, wait, wait. Evidence of something is evidence of it. We don't use plate tectonics to explain itching in uncomfortable places. If you had evidence of a designer (glad to see you implicitly at least acknowledge you don't), it would be evidence of a designer.

Of course what you and I consider evidence most likely barely correlates.
\

The evidence points in both directions. If God were to have created the universe for you, wouldn't it be the same as it is now? Same goes for evolution. But I choose to believe not in evolution and in God.

Lets get back to the point...Sin. If you want to discuss evolution and God, can you make another forum.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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2/10/2010 3:21:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/9/2010 8:29:23 AM, GodSands wrote:
...Whether God exists, whether evolution happened or not. No one gives up their post in these things.

Isn't it something more deeper. Sin possibly?

In order to accept the doctrine sin one must accept an objective morality; sin is failure to adhere to God's morality.

If one does not accept that there is an ultimate, universal morality then even subjective morality has no meaning as it cannot be further away from or closer to something that is itself subjective.

Hence Hitler's worldview is no better nor worse than Gandhi's.

If.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/10/2010 3:25:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 3:21:01 AM, GodSands wrote:

The evidence points in both directions. If God were to have created the universe for you, wouldn't it be the same as it is now?

If it was the same that's only evidence for the natural, since that's the explanatory power of scientific knowledge. Nothing in that contains, knowledge or answers about a divine anything since it is *exactly* the same as the naturalist one.

Same goes for evolution. But I choose to believe not in evolution and in God.

Belief and knowledge are separate. Your belief claim comes minus knowledge (faith), mine does not.


Lets get back to the point...Sin. If you want to discuss evolution and God, can you make another forum.

You brought it up. :)
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/10/2010 3:41:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/10/2010 3:25:07 AM, Puck wrote:
At 2/10/2010 3:21:01 AM, GodSands wrote:

The evidence points in both directions. If God were to have created the universe for you, wouldn't it be the same as it is now?

If it was the same that's only evidence for the natural, since that's the explanatory power of scientific knowledge. Nothing in that contains, knowledge or answers about a divine anything since it is *exactly* the same as the naturalist one.

Same goes for evolution. But I choose to believe not in evolution and in God.

Belief and knowledge are separate. Your belief claim comes minus knowledge (faith), mine does not.


Lets get back to the point...Sin. If you want to discuss evolution and God, can you make another forum.

You brought it up. :)


You do not know if evolution has occoured, you claim it has happened. Also known as a knowledge claim. You believe therefore that you know evolution has happened. If you knew that evolution has happened, evidence would not be needed....I have to go, I will catch up on the rest later.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/10/2010 4:02:11 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 3:41:01 AM, GodSands wrote:
You do not know if evolution has occoured, you claim it has happened.

Bzzt. See copious evidence.

Also known as a knowledge claim.

If given your premise it's a belief claim so incorrect there. Beliefs are agreements of statements (I believe rain comes from clouds), knowledge refers to awareness of a facet of reality (rain comes from clouds). Beliefs may be correct or incorrect, they are not a source of knowledge however.

You believe therefore that you know evolution has happened. If you knew that evolution has happened, evidence would not be needed

Oh deary. I believe evolution occurred is a belief claim on the knowledge claim evolution occurred. I have evidence evolution occurred, so it's not a faith claim. It's precisely because I have evidence, that I *know* and don't simply have a baseless belief claim (such as invisible dragons exist in my garage).
PervRat
Posts: 963
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2/10/2010 4:10:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 3:41:01 AM, GodSands wrote:
If you knew that evolution has happened, evidence would not be needed.

Knowledge and faith are entirely different things.

Evidence provides knowledge but destroys faith.

Knowledge requires evidence but is destroyed by faith.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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2/10/2010 7:17:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 3:41:01 AM, GodSands wrote:
You do not know if evolution has occoured, you claim it has happened. Also known as a knowledge claim. You believe therefore that you know evolution has happened. If you knew that evolution has happened, evidence would not be needed....I have to go, I will catch up on the rest later.

Fail.

First of all, for example, the shape of the earth. If we had no evidence, we could not know whether or not the earth is flat, or spherical, which is why so many people 2000 years ago, believed that the earth was flat, and they claimed they knew this.

Secondly, knowledge is based on evidence. How could it not be? Is there anything today, to which we know is true, that has no evidence to support it?
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/10/2010 8:48:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/10/2010 7:17:34 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 2/10/2010 3:41:01 AM, GodSands wrote:
You do not know if evolution has occoured, you claim it has happened. Also known as a knowledge claim. You believe therefore that you know evolution has happened. If you knew that evolution has happened, evidence would not be needed....I have to go, I will catch up on the rest later.

Fail.

First of all, for example, the shape of the earth. If we had no evidence, we could not know whether or not the earth is flat, or spherical, which is why so many people 2000 years ago, believed that the earth was flat, and they claimed they knew this.

Secondly, knowledge is based on evidence. How could it not be? Is there anything today, to which we know is true, that has no evidence to support it?


People thought the earth was flat because they were taught so. You can see just by looking out to sea that the earth isn't flat. I wonder why you chose to say 2000 years ago? Wouldn't it be more correct to say 500 years ago?

@ Punk: About what you were saying about a belief claim, you do not claim to believe in something, you either believe in it or you do not. So it is called a knowledge claim, you claim that it happened. You claim knowlegde. It is up to a certain someone to believe that claim.

Can I ask, what differs someone from being a false Christian, to someone who really is a Christian? Why was Matthew 7:21-23 written if my point here is worthless?

What makes someone become truely born again? Why wouldn't I give a unbeliever a sinner prayer to read to accept Jesus into his heart?

Why would I, given that this person was also motivated to stay up all night to bring this person to Christ to be delt with, of his sin?

Basically what is the different to a lost church member to a Christian?
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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2/10/2010 3:31:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 8:48:19 AM, GodSands wrote:

@ Punk: About what you were saying about a belief claim, you do not claim to believe in something, you either believe in it or you do not. So it is called a knowledge claim, you claim that it happened. You claim knowlegde. It is up to a certain someone to believe that claim.

No, the difference is one is an agreement/disagreement claim, the other is about reality. 'I believe X' has no inherent knowledge claim to it.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/10/2010 4:30:40 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/10/2010 3:31:51 PM, Puck wrote:
At 2/10/2010 8:48:19 AM, GodSands wrote:

@ Punk: About what you were saying about a belief claim, you do not claim to believe in something, you either believe in it or you do not. So it is called a knowledge claim, you claim that it happened. You claim knowlegde. It is up to a certain someone to believe that claim.

No, the difference is one is an agreement/disagreement claim, the other is about reality. 'I believe X' has no inherent knowledge claim to it.


It is as simple as this, I claim that I know 267 x 87. I claim knowledge, that being the answer.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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2/10/2010 6:32:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 2:58:32 AM, GodSands wrote:
I know how evolution works

No you don't. If you said that before, people could argue with you. I administered a 10 question test and you failed the first question miserably, to the point where you were crying and whining and being pathetic via private message about how unfair it was.

After you ran away crying because you couldn't even get 2/3 of the first question right, you lose the right to say anything remotely similar to "I know how evolution works".

See you all in a week.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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2/10/2010 6:37:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
: At 2/10/2010 6:32:57 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 2/10/2010 2:58:32 AM, GodSands wrote:
I know how evolution works

No you don't. If you said that before, people could argue with you. I administered a 10 question test and you failed the first question miserably, to the point where you were crying and whining and being pathetic via private message about how unfair it was.

After you ran away crying because you couldn't even get 2/3 of the first question right, you lose the right to say anything remotely similar to "I know how evolution works".

See you all in a week.


Ok, I am under the authority of Kleptin. My computer actually broke for around 3 weeks. So I was away. Oh and quickly, I know how evolution works.
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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2/10/2010 6:48:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 3:14:10 AM, Puck wrote:
Wait, wait, wait. Evidence of something is evidence of it. We don't use plate tectonics to explain itching in uncomfortable places.

Can I keep this one?
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
Sylux
Posts: 290
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2/10/2010 6:57:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 6:48:48 PM, sherlockmethod wrote:
At 2/10/2010 3:14:10 AM, Puck wrote:
Wait, wait, wait. Evidence of something is evidence of it. We don't use plate tectonics to explain itching in uncomfortable places.

Can I keep this one?
Speaking of raping/ignoring facts...
http://scienceblogs.com...
"Can you see? Do you know?
The string behind you, it's shiny and pretty.
Where is my string.
Give me because I don't know.
Give me your string.
Give me everything."
-grasshoppa
Sylux
Posts: 290
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2/10/2010 6:58:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/10/2010 6:55:02 PM, mongeese wrote:
At 2/10/2010 6:37:38 PM, GodSands wrote:
Oh and quickly, I know how evolution works.

What is a mutation?

The devil's work!
"Can you see? Do you know?
The string behind you, it's shiny and pretty.
Where is my string.
Give me because I don't know.
Give me your string.
Give me everything."
-grasshoppa
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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2/10/2010 7:14:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I will take a test on the Theory of Evolution; the Big Bang; and YEC. At this point, I think I know more YEC arguments than the YECs on this site.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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2/11/2010 7:51:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/9/2010 11:18:01 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Christianity is a sin.

Now that is just down right mean.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen