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* FAITH *.......again

matt.mcguire88
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5/14/2014 4:59:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
For interest I would like to remind readers about what Christianity says about faith. In light of the scriptures is what I'm interested in.
Contrary to popular opinion I would like to show that using faith (described in scripture).......produces results.... it is an ACTION, not an empty abstract word used to dodge explanations.

First I would like to show what faith is and how the scriptures define the word
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Here the word faith described has the elements of both substance, and evidence. The substance of my faith determines the evidence it produces.
Matthew 9
20 And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:

21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.

22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Faith as it was used in scripture IS to produce a result, NOT to just believe aimlessly in something, in other words I am believing God for a certain outcome, I'm putting my trust in the ability of God, therefore my trust in God is hinged upon my faith in God that He will do what He says and accomplish it.
In the following verses faith is applied to men who already knew God existed, their faith was not used just to guess that some God exists, rather their faith was used to believe in the power of God in their lives.....
Hebrews 11
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that HE IS, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.

24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.

Faith (Christian faith) is an element used by believers to trust God for something that is not in the present. It was never meant to be used as some cover up or to avoid answers, although some do resort to that, that's not what the Bible teaches.
To further my illustration that faith in scripture is action rather than an excuse
Matthew 17
16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.

17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

In 1 Corinthians 2 faith is not only an action but power.....
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

My point of course here is that none of these people were using faith to simply believe that God existed, faith was applied to accomplish God's word or to reach an impossible goal.
Even on a theological level there is really no need for "faith" to believe in a God, since the arguments for and against God remain neutral, it's just a matter of what seems more logical. However as a Christian I use faith in my life to accomplish spiritual goals or even goals when praying. I don't use faith as some loophole to avoid hard questions. When I have hard questions I don't avoid them, I seek God and ask for solutions. So I am left with wondering why so many people have a weird view on faith if you've read the scriptures and understand them?
To me, faith has become an element used to smear Christianity and pervert it's meaning, whether directly or indirectly the whole concept of the word has become a joke, completely distorting the image and the actual use of the word, and yes, I KNOW what the dictionary says, which is why I gave verses to support it's usage.

I'm not contending salvation BTW, by grace you are saved through faith, not of ourselves, I get that. I'm contending the usage of the word in scripture and how it is applied.

I also am not really interested in religious views (because I already know what they believe) as much as I would like Atheist opinions from scratch, any thoughts ??
Keltron
Posts: 161
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5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to. I don't have faith in a god, but I have experienced what I would call providence. I once read something that has stuck with me for a long time. I don't remember the source, but the quote is: "the universe arranges itself to come to the aid of those whose intentions are clear." Maybe this is something like what you were talking about?
matt.mcguire88
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5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/14/2014 7:15:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 4:59:08 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:

I also am not really interested in religious views (because I already know what they believe) as much as I would like Atheist opinions from scratch, any thoughts ??

Well, I'm not an atheist, but I'm not religious either. I found it to be an interesting view of faith, and I agree that the Bible itself has been made into a tool to be used against the idea of God's existence. It definitely caused me to think.
matt.mcguire88
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5/14/2014 7:22:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:15:02 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/14/2014 4:59:08 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:

I also am not really interested in religious views (because I already know what they believe) as much as I would like Atheist opinions from scratch, any thoughts ??

Well, I'm not an atheist, but I'm not religious either. I found it to be an interesting view of faith, and I agree that the Bible itself has been made into a tool to be used against the idea of God's existence. It definitely caused me to think.

Oh you are theist, not Christian? :)
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/14/2014 7:26:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:22:19 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:15:02 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/14/2014 4:59:08 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:

I also am not really interested in religious views (because I already know what they believe) as much as I would like Atheist opinions from scratch, any thoughts ??

Well, I'm not an atheist, but I'm not religious either. I found it to be an interesting view of faith, and I agree that the Bible itself has been made into a tool to be used against the idea of God's existence. It definitely caused me to think.

Oh you are theist, not Christian? :)

Yes, pretty much, although my view of God isn't exactly in line with the classical view.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/14/2014 7:27:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:26:12 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:22:19 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:15:02 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/14/2014 4:59:08 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:

I also am not really interested in religious views (because I already know what they believe) as much as I would like Atheist opinions from scratch, any thoughts ??

Well, I'm not an atheist, but I'm not religious either. I found it to be an interesting view of faith, and I agree that the Bible itself has been made into a tool to be used against the idea of God's existence. It definitely caused me to think.

Oh you are theist, not Christian? :)

Yes, pretty much, although my view of God isn't exactly in line with the classical view.

k
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/14/2014 8:23:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

Some people simply trust fate and live by the concept that whatever will be will be. That is no different to trusting in what believers call God. When you can change circumstances in your life then you are in control of the results. It takes action to get the results you want. You work to achieve your goals and leave the outcome to fate.

Faith is knowing you will get a crop when you plant seeds. Faith in action is the act of planting those seeds and then waiting for the crop.

Regarding God having people pray in certain ways...
I do not believe anyone one named God ever has anyone pray in any certain ways. That is a self delusion. People choose to do what they do of their own accord. You can blame no one or credit no one but yourself for your own actions. Life is what you make it.
You have the power to change the things you can change. You can decide to accept or complain about things you cannot change. You can hope that life and fate will be kind to you but we all reap what we sow. In the end all of us end up in the grave. No faith needed for that. It is a fact.

All people follow their own intuition, instinct and conscience. Some call it God and imagine it talking to them. It makes them believe they are more spiritual than others when they hear and listen to "God" instead of simply understanding the"inner voice" is nothing more than their own conscience, intuition and instincts.
matt.mcguire88
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5/14/2014 8:43:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:23:50 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

Some people simply trust fate and live by the concept that whatever will be will be. That is no different to trusting in what believers call God. When you can change circumstances in your life then you are in control of the results. It takes action to get the results you want. You work to achieve your goals and leave the outcome to fate.

Faith is knowing you will get a crop when you plant seeds. Faith in action is the act of planting those seeds and then waiting for the crop.



Regarding God having people pray in certain ways...
I do not believe anyone one named God ever has anyone pray in any certain ways. That is a self delusion. People choose to do what they do of their own accord. You can blame no one or credit no one but yourself for your own actions. Life is what you make it.
You have the power to change the things you can change. You can decide to accept or complain about things you cannot change. You can hope that life and fate will be kind to you but we all reap what we sow. In the end all of us end up in the grave. No faith needed for that. It is a fact.

All people follow their own intuition, instinct and conscience. Some call it God and imagine it talking to them. It makes them believe they are more spiritual than others when they hear and listen to "God" instead of simply understanding the"inner voice" is nothing more than their own conscience, intuition and instincts.

Thanks for your view Angel, although I don't believe I'm "more anything" than another, that's your own "delusion". How does your faith differ than that which I presented in your statement above??
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/14/2014 9:10:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 8:43:56 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:23:50 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Some people simply trust fate and live by the concept that whatever will be will be. That is no different to trusting in what believers call God. When you can change circumstances in your life then you are in control of the results. It takes action to get the results you want. You work to achieve your goals and leave the outcome to fate.

Faith is knowing you will get a crop when you plant seeds. Faith in action is the act of planting those seeds and then waiting for the crop.



Regarding God having people pray in certain ways...
I do not believe anyone one named God ever has anyone pray in any certain ways. That is a self delusion. People choose to do what they do of their own accord. You can blame no one or credit no one but yourself for your own actions. Life is what you make it.
You have the power to change the things you can change. You can decide to accept or complain about things you cannot change. You can hope that life and fate will be kind to you but we all reap what we sow. In the end all of us end up in the grave. No faith needed for that. It is a fact.

All people follow their own intuition, instinct and conscience. Some call it God and imagine it talking to them. It makes them believe they are more spiritual than others when they hear and listen to "God" instead of simply understanding the"inner voice" is nothing more than their own conscience, intuition and instincts.

Thanks for your view Angel, although I don't believe I'm "more anything" than another, that's your own "delusion". How does your faith differ than that which I presented in your statement above??

I have faith in reality which differs from faith in fantasy.

Believers in God seem to place their faith in an invisible entity which in my opinion is nothing but a fantasy. It is the same as a child believing in and communicating with an invisible friend.

My inner voices come from my conscience, intuition and instinct.

Believers in God seem to think their "inner voices" come from outside of themselves and therefore they can blame God for their actions rather than take responsibility for themselves.

Example, some believers claim God told them to kill others. Those stories are found in the bible and they still happen today through terrorists who worship their Gods and credit or blame that God for their actions. To claim you are obeying God when it harms other people and even causes you to lose your own life is a cop out and is making excuses for ones own actions instead of taking responsibility for them.

Religious people are brainwashed and are unaware of it.
Crediting an invisible friend for the good you do is false humility.
Blaming an invisible entity for the bad things you do is passing the buck and avoiding responsibility.
Every person on earth follows their own instincts, intuition and conscience regardless of whether they believe in any supernatural gods or not.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/14/2014 9:21:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 9:10:14 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:43:56 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:23:50 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Some people simply trust fate and live by the concept that whatever will be will be. That is no different to trusting in what believers call God. When you can change circumstances in your life then you are in control of the results. It takes action to get the results you want. You work to achieve your goals and leave the outcome to fate.

Faith is knowing you will get a crop when you plant seeds. Faith in action is the act of planting those seeds and then waiting for the crop.



Regarding God having people pray in certain ways...
I do not believe anyone one named God ever has anyone pray in any certain ways. That is a self delusion. People choose to do what they do of their own accord. You can blame no one or credit no one but yourself for your own actions. Life is what you make it.
You have the power to change the things you can change. You can decide to accept or complain about things you cannot change. You can hope that life and fate will be kind to you but we all reap what we sow. In the end all of us end up in the grave. No faith needed for that. It is a fact.

All people follow their own intuition, instinct and conscience. Some call it God and imagine it talking to them. It makes them believe they are more spiritual than others when they hear and listen to "God" instead of simply understanding the"inner voice" is nothing more than their own conscience, intuition and instincts.

Thanks for your view Angel, although I don't believe I'm "more anything" than another, that's your own "delusion". How does your faith differ than that which I presented in your statement above??

I have faith in reality which differs from faith in fantasy.

What makes mine fantasy?

Believers in God seem to place their faith in an invisible entity which in my opinion is nothing but a fantasy. It is the same as a child believing in and communicating with an invisible friend.

What makes mine a fantasy? and yours not....

My inner voices come from my conscience, intuition and instinct.

Okay....

Believers in God seem to think their "inner voices" come from outside of themselves and therefore they can blame God for their actions rather than take responsibility for themselves.
Yes God's voice comes from outside, because He is a separate Entity, but He speaks within. The second part DOES NOT follow lol, I do take responsibility for my actions, what are you talking about???

Example, some believers claim God told them to kill others. Those stories are found in the bible and they still happen today through terrorists who worship their Gods and credit or blame that God for their actions. To claim you are obeying God when it harms other people and even causes you to lose your own life is a cop out and is making excuses for ones own actions instead of taking responsibility for them.

I don't harm others, are you drunk?? who's making excuses for actions????

Religious people are brainwashed and are unaware of it.

Sure, sounds like you are unaware to me. I do my own thinking thank you.

Crediting an invisible friend for the good you do is false humility.

Really, God is creator, what false humility???

Blaming an invisible entity for the bad things you do is passing the buck and avoiding responsibility.

What?? you're imagining again lol???

Every person on earth follows their own instincts, intuition and conscience regardless of whether they believe in any supernatural gods or not.

Okay...
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/14/2014 9:26:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Skyangel, go back and read what I wrote and if it is possible, respond to the objections in a coherent manner. You're not making any sense, just derailing the thread.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/14/2014 11:05:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 9:21:10 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 9:10:14 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:43:56 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 8:23:50 PM, Skyangel wrote:

Some people simply trust fate and live by the concept that whatever will be will be. That is no different to trusting in what believers call God. When you can change circumstances in your life then you are in control of the results. It takes action to get the results you want. You work to achieve your goals and leave the outcome to fate.

Faith is knowing you will get a crop when you plant seeds. Faith in action is the act of planting those seeds and then waiting for the crop.



Regarding God having people pray in certain ways...
I do not believe anyone one named God ever has anyone pray in any certain ways. That is a self delusion. People choose to do what they do of their own accord. You can blame no one or credit no one but yourself for your own actions. Life is what you make it.
You have the power to change the things you can change. You can decide to accept or complain about things you cannot change. You can hope that life and fate will be kind to you but we all reap what we sow. In the end all of us end up in the grave. No faith needed for that. It is a fact.

All people follow their own intuition, instinct and conscience. Some call it God and imagine it talking to them. It makes them believe they are more spiritual than others when they hear and listen to "God" instead of simply understanding the"inner voice" is nothing more than their own conscience, intuition and instincts.

Thanks for your view Angel, although I don't believe I'm "more anything" than another, that's your own "delusion". How does your faith differ than that which I presented in your statement above??

I have faith in reality which differs from faith in fantasy.

What makes mine fantasy?

You are the one who is claiming yours is a fantasy. I never said it was. You just did.

Believers in God seem to place their faith in an invisible entity which in my opinion is nothing but a fantasy. It is the same as a child believing in and communicating with an invisible friend.

What makes mine a fantasy? and yours not....

As I said, invisible friends are a fantasy in my opinion. If you are one of the believers who believes your God is your invisible friend then you are worshipping a fantasy in my opinion. If the cap fits, feel free to wear it. If not, there is no need to get upset about it.

My inner voices come from my conscience, intuition and instinct.

Okay....

Believers in God seem to think their "inner voices" come from outside of themselves and therefore they can blame God for their actions rather than take responsibility for themselves.
Yes God's voice comes from outside, because He is a separate Entity, but He speaks within. The second part DOES NOT follow lol, I do take responsibility for my actions, what are you talking about???

The only voices I hear outside of myself are the voices of real people. God is not a separate entity from all living things. God is ALL and IN ALL. God is LIFE itself not some person who created life. LIFE creates life. Life is not a person or supernatural being. It is an energy which is inside all living things. Energy has no gender. It is neither male nor female.

Example, some believers claim God told them to kill others. Those stories are found in the bible and they still happen today through terrorists who worship their Gods and credit or blame that God for their actions. To claim you are obeying God when it harms other people and even causes you to lose your own life is a cop out and is making excuses for ones own actions instead of taking responsibility for them.

I don't harm others, are you drunk?? who's making excuses for actions????

Terrorists do. I am talking about general believers. However if the cap fits, please feel free to wear it.
No I am not drunk. I don't drink alcohol.

Religious people are brainwashed and are unaware of it.

Sure, sounds like you are unaware to me. I do my own thinking thank you.

Most people think they do but they are trained to think like their religions want them to think. Obviously you are unaware of that fact.

Crediting an invisible friend for the good you do is false humility.

Really, God is creator, what false humility???

Life is the creator of Life. That is a fact. No humility necessary.

Blaming an invisible entity for the bad things you do is passing the buck and avoiding responsibility.

What?? you're imagining again lol???

I am not the one who blames God or the devil for anything. Believers in those entities do that.

Every person on earth follows their own instincts, intuition and conscience regardless of whether they believe in any supernatural gods or not.

Okay...
Skyangel
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5/14/2014 11:07:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 9:26:55 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Skyangel, go back and read what I wrote and if it is possible, respond to the objections in a coherent manner. You're not making any sense, just derailing the thread.

Logic and reality makes no sense to illogical people who live in fantasy land so I totally understand your problem.
Keltron
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5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?
matt.mcguire88
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5/15/2014 6:05:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 11:07:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/14/2014 9:26:55 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Skyangel, go back and read what I wrote and if it is possible, respond to the objections in a coherent manner. You're not making any sense, just derailing the thread.

Logic and reality makes no sense to illogical people who live in fantasy land so I totally understand your problem.

So basically you don't like Christians and all you said in this thread was either wrong or your own opinion, good, you have a sour opinion about Christianity, well get in line and STAY ON TOPIC. As I said sister, address the OP please, not my imaginary friend.
matt.mcguire88
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5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?
matt.mcguire88
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5/15/2014 8:13:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

I mean, it should come as no surprise that a Christian actually prays, we're supposed to, the scriptures encourage us to commune with God, it's just part of the Christian territory. I do notice people get squeamish when the subject comes up though lol.

In this thread I was more interested in describing faith that is taught in scripture, and how the word has become tainted from it's meaning and is now used to slander, that's a very unfortunate thing due to a misconception and propaganda.
Keltron
Posts: 161
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5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action. You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle, or active mechanism for finding out what that is. Is that close? So what I'm interested in is your experience of how this works for you, and what the outcome is. What is God telling you, or guiding you to do that you might not have thought of on your own?
matt.mcguire88
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5/16/2014 9:03:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action. You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle,

Of course I am glad you're interested but it would be nice if you could answer my questions, which shows me you're not just here with an agenda.
So what do you think with the information and verses I gave..., do you agree that my description is accurate according to what scriptures says. What do you think faith represents in the Bible? Because maybe you can answer your own question here below.

or active mechanism for finding out what that is. Is that close? So what I'm interested in is your experience of how this works for you, and what the outcome is. What is God telling you, or guiding you to do that you might not have thought of on your own?

For start I've been a Christian for 20 so years, that's not a long time but it is a long enough time to be committed and observe.
For me as a person I'm very aware of myself, my mind, my strengths and weaknesses and I know what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not.
It's not a challenge for me at this point to distinguish that which comes from me and that which comes from God, that is something you're just going to have to accept, because that is between me and God and is not useful information for you. The objective is to get the non believer to their own experience with God, until that occurs it will just remain an empty space in your curiosity.
As far as "what" God shows, it is transferred in spirit, for a believer they are things that pertain to ones life, their environment, their family and for people in need.
The things I can accomplish myself or can learn myself, I do myself. The things I need God for are the things I cannot produce or know, therefore I seek God for those things.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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5/16/2014 9:34:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/16/2014 9:03:32 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action. You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle,

Of course I am glad you're interested but it would be nice if you could answer my questions, which shows me you're not just here with an agenda.
So what do you think with the information and verses I gave..., do you agree that my description is accurate according to what scriptures says. What do you think faith represents in the Bible? Because maybe you can answer your own question here below.

or active mechanism for finding out what that is. Is that close? So what I'm interested in is your experience of how this works for you, and what the outcome is. What is God telling you, or guiding you to do that you might not have thought of on your own?

For start I've been a Christian for 20 so years, that's not a long time but it is a long enough time to be committed and observe.
For me as a person I'm very aware of myself, my mind, my strengths and weaknesses and I know what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not.
It's not a challenge for me at this point to distinguish that which comes from me and that which comes from God, that is something you're just going to have to accept, because that is between me and God and is not useful information for you. The objective is to get the non believer to their own experience with God, until that occurs it will just remain an empty space in your curiosity.
As far as "what" God shows, it is transferred in spirit, for a believer they are things that pertain to ones life, their environment, their family and for people in need.
The things I can accomplish myself or can learn myself, I do myself. The things I need God for are the things I cannot produce or know, therefore I seek God for those things.

Has god ever provided you with information that no-one else on the planet is privy to?
If so what was it?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/16/2014 10:15:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/16/2014 9:34:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2014 9:03:32 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action. You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle,

Of course I am glad you're interested but it would be nice if you could answer my questions, which shows me you're not just here with an agenda.
So what do you think with the information and verses I gave..., do you agree that my description is accurate according to what scriptures says. What do you think faith represents in the Bible? Because maybe you can answer your own question here below.

or active mechanism for finding out what that is. Is that close? So what I'm interested in is your experience of how this works for you, and what the outcome is. What is God telling you, or guiding you to do that you might not have thought of on your own?

For start I've been a Christian for 20 so years, that's not a long time but it is a long enough time to be committed and observe.
For me as a person I'm very aware of myself, my mind, my strengths and weaknesses and I know what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not.
It's not a challenge for me at this point to distinguish that which comes from me and that which comes from God, that is something you're just going to have to accept, because that is between me and God and is not useful information for you. The objective is to get the non believer to their own experience with God, until that occurs it will just remain an empty space in your curiosity.
As far as "what" God shows, it is transferred in spirit, for a believer they are things that pertain to ones life, their environment, their family and for people in need.
The things I can accomplish myself or can learn myself, I do myself. The things I need God for are the things I cannot produce or know, therefore I seek God for those things.

Has god ever provided you with information that no-one else on the planet is privy to?
If so what was it?

I knew you were gonna think this way lol.
Anything good in this life worth finding takes seeking. In other words in ain't that easy, at least in what I know you're thinking.
I live a busy life, work, three kids, wife pets ect. and to a certain degree content. To take time out and seek God in prayer and if need be fasting takes time, listening, patients, understanding and cultivating. This is something that is not a drag for me, I enjoy it but life is hectic, too hectic sometimes lol.
I'm probably different than an average person in that my interests are mainly spiritual, in that is because the spiritual "to me" is the larger reality. The things I enjoy seeking God for are non physical and non temporal, like spiritual goals that the scripture sets or that God directs. I like to seek knowledge and wisdom and when I feel "led" or stirred I pray for people and their well being, just because I believe that God does hear. So yes I do believe I've learned and seen things possibly nobody in the moment could help with.
For me, I have gained wisdom and direction in ways that produced fruit, specifics do not matter and is pretty much unimportant for you.
Keltron
Posts: 161
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5/16/2014 5:45:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/16/2014 9:03:32 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action. You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle,

Of course I am glad you're interested but it would be nice if you could answer my questions, which shows me you're not just here with an agenda.

What questions are those? The only question asked in the OP was why non religious people find faith weird. I don't think faith is weird, it's just not something I utilize or even think about.

So what do you think with the information and verses I gave..., do you agree that my description is accurate according to what scriptures says. What do you think faith represents in the Bible? Because maybe you can answer your own question here below.

I already told you what I think about it. I summed up the process that I think you're trying to describe, and asked if I was close to understanding your thinking.

For start I've been a Christian for 20 so years, that's not a long time but it is a long enough time to be committed and observe.
For me as a person I'm very aware of myself, my mind, my strengths and weaknesses and I know what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not.
It's not a challenge for me at this point to distinguish that which comes from me and that which comes from God, that is something you're just going to have to accept, because that is between me and God and is not useful information for you. The objective is to get the non believer to their own experience with God, until that occurs it will just remain an empty space in your curiosity.
As far as "what" God shows, it is transferred in spirit, for a believer they are things that pertain to ones life, their environment, their family and for people in need.
The things I can accomplish myself or can learn myself, I do myself. The things I need God for are the things I cannot produce or know, therefore I seek God for those things.

Thanks for the information, I'm always interested in another person's experience. You were a little short on specifics, but I take it that you're saying that's nobody's business, so I'll just leave it at that.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/16/2014 6:27:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/16/2014 5:45:54 PM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/16/2014 9:03:32 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action.

Yes, faith to me in scripture is not the typical faith that people tend to describe, what do you think judging by the verses I gave? Do you think my description is accurate?

You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle,

Yes faith could be a "vehicle", to believe in God for something that is not yet a reality.


Of course I am glad you're interested but it would be nice if you could answer my questions, which shows me you're not just here with an agenda.

What questions are those? The only question asked in the OP was why non religious people find faith weird. I don't think faith is weird, it's just not something I utilize or even think about.

Lol okay, would it be something you would consider if the scriptures was something you wanted to pursue?

So what do you think with the information and verses I gave..., do you agree that my description is accurate according to what scriptures says. What do you think faith represents in the Bible? Because maybe you can answer your own question here below.

I already told you what I think about it. I summed up the process that I think you're trying to describe, and asked if I was close to understanding your thinking.

For start I've been a Christian for 20 so years, that's not a long time but it is a long enough time to be committed and observe.
For me as a person I'm very aware of myself, my mind, my strengths and weaknesses and I know what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not.
It's not a challenge for me at this point to distinguish that which comes from me and that which comes from God, that is something you're just going to have to accept, because that is between me and God and is not useful information for you. The objective is to get the non believer to their own experience with God, until that occurs it will just remain an empty space in your curiosity.
As far as "what" God shows, it is transferred in spirit, for a believer they are things that pertain to ones life, their environment, their family and for people in need.
The things I can accomplish myself or can learn myself, I do myself. The things I need God for are the things I cannot produce or know, therefore I seek God for those things.

Thanks for the information, I'm always interested in another person's experience. You were a little short on specifics, but I take it that you're saying that's nobody's business, so I'll just leave it at that.
bulproof
Posts: 25,203
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5/16/2014 10:48:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/16/2014 10:15:17 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 9:34:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2014 9:03:32 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action. You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle,

Of course I am glad you're interested but it would be nice if you could answer my questions, which shows me you're not just here with an agenda.
So what do you think with the information and verses I gave..., do you agree that my description is accurate according to what scriptures says. What do you think faith represents in the Bible? Because maybe you can answer your own question here below.

or active mechanism for finding out what that is. Is that close? So what I'm interested in is your experience of how this works for you, and what the outcome is. What is God telling you, or guiding you to do that you might not have thought of on your own?

For start I've been a Christian for 20 so years, that's not a long time but it is a long enough time to be committed and observe.
For me as a person I'm very aware of myself, my mind, my strengths and weaknesses and I know what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not.
It's not a challenge for me at this point to distinguish that which comes from me and that which comes from God, that is something you're just going to have to accept, because that is between me and God and is not useful information for you. The objective is to get the non believer to their own experience with God, until that occurs it will just remain an empty space in your curiosity.
As far as "what" God shows, it is transferred in spirit, for a believer they are things that pertain to ones life, their environment, their family and for people in need.
The things I can accomplish myself or can learn myself, I do myself. The things I need God for are the things I cannot produce or know, therefore I seek God for those things.

Has god ever provided you with information that no-one else on the planet is privy to?
If so what was it?

I knew you were gonna think this way lol.
Anything good in this life worth finding takes seeking. In other words in ain't that easy, at least in what I know you're thinking.
I live a busy life, work, three kids, wife pets ect. and to a certain degree content. To take time out and seek God in prayer and if need be fasting takes time, listening, patients, understanding and cultivating. This is something that is not a drag for me, I enjoy it but life is hectic, too hectic sometimes lol.
I'm probably different than an average person in that my interests are mainly spiritual, in that is because the spiritual "to me" is the larger reality. The things I enjoy seeking God for are non physical and non temporal, like spiritual goals that the scripture sets or that God directs. I like to seek knowledge and wisdom and when I feel "led" or stirred I pray for people and their well being, just because I believe that God does hear. So yes I do believe I've learned and seen things possibly nobody in the moment could help with.
For me, I have gained wisdom and direction in ways that produced fruit, specifics do not matter and is pretty much unimportant for you.

Thank you, that answers my question.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/17/2014 2:38:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/16/2014 10:48:45 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2014 10:15:17 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 9:34:25 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/16/2014 9:03:32 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/16/2014 12:22:04 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/15/2014 6:16:28 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/15/2014 12:05:44 AM, Keltron wrote:
At 5/14/2014 7:13:33 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/14/2014 6:46:19 PM, Keltron wrote:
Well, these examples of faith from the Bible seem sort of meta-mythical. A main theme of the Jewish foundational mythology is faith in, but more importantly, unquestioned obedience of God. God essentially says "do what I say whether it makes sense or not." It takes a certain kind of faith to do that.

Lol what? please do explain "meta-mythical". Faith in God to accomplish want He wants, or faith in God to accomplish want I want is irrelevant, if the outcome is to produce..... As a Christian I do want what God wants, not at first 100% but it's getting closer lol....

Meta indicates an abstraction of an abstraction. I presume you know what mythical means.

I would be curious to hear about your experiences with putting faith into action in order to accomplish something, as you alluded to.

It's simple. When my desire is out of my hands, I put it in the hands of God, whatever that may be. As a Christian I remain pliable as to want God may want. If I have a personal problem, I take it before God in prayer and I communicate. When I know the way God is leading me I respond accordingly, this takes time BTW, and I watch for the results (fruit).

Sometimes God has me pray certain ways, although I don't always understand and even sometimes I doubt the outcome I do as God says, because I trust Him. I begin to trust as my faith progresses, my faith grows as I begin to trust, based on what I observe.

So, what is God telling you to do?

To kill people...........LOLOLOL! that was for Skyangel sorry. Are you really interested or you just want to mock me?? What do you think about my view of faith as it is in scripture as I presented in the OP, without presuming myths and so forth?

I am interested. I think you are differentiating between faith and belief, and that you are using faith as a vehicle for communication and action. You want to do what God wants you to do, and this is a vehicle,

Of course I am glad you're interested but it would be nice if you could answer my questions, which shows me you're not just here with an agenda.
So what do you think with the information and verses I gave..., do you agree that my description is accurate according to what scriptures says. What do you think faith represents in the Bible? Because maybe you can answer your own question here below.

or active mechanism for finding out what that is. Is that close? So what I'm interested in is your experience of how this works for you, and what the outcome is. What is God telling you, or guiding you to do that you might not have thought of on your own?

For start I've been a Christian for 20 so years, that's not a long time but it is a long enough time to be committed and observe.
For me as a person I'm very aware of myself, my mind, my strengths and weaknesses and I know what I'm capable of doing and what I'm not.
It's not a challenge for me at this point to distinguish that which comes from me and that which comes from God, that is something you're just going to have to accept, because that is between me and God and is not useful information for you. The objective is to get the non believer to their own experience with God, until that occurs it will just remain an empty space in your curiosity.
As far as "what" God shows, it is transferred in spirit, for a believer they are things that pertain to ones life, their environment, their family and for people in need.
The things I can accomplish myself or can learn myself, I do myself. The things I need God for are the things I cannot produce or know, therefore I seek God for those things.

Has god ever provided you with information that no-one else on the planet is privy to?
If so what was it?

I knew you were gonna think this way lol.
Anything good in this life worth finding takes seeking. In other words in ain't that easy, at least in what I know you're thinking.
I live a busy life, work, three kids, wife pets ect. and to a certain degree content. To take time out and seek God in prayer and if need be fasting takes time, listening, patients, understanding and cultivating. This is something that is not a drag for me, I enjoy it but life is hectic, too hectic sometimes lol.
I'm probably different than an average person in that my interests are mainly spiritual, in that is because the spiritual "to me" is the larger reality. The things I enjoy seeking God for are non physical and non temporal, like spiritual goals that the scripture sets or that God directs. I like to seek knowledge and wisdom and when I feel "led" or stirred I pray for people and their well being, just because I believe that God does hear. So yes I do believe I've learned and seen things possibly nobody in the moment could help with.
For me, I have gained wisdom and direction in ways that produced fruit, specifics do not matter and is pretty much unimportant for you.

Thank you, that answers my question.

Are you ever gonna tell me something about yourself Bulproof or are you just going to keep me guessing lol?
Sagey
Posts: 51
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5/17/2014 3:00:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well it seems that FAITH was just A Strong Belief in Something.
That Something may not be practical or true, but they performed actions because of that Strong Belief.

Though history has shown that in most cases, people acting out of such Strong Belief have caused more harm than good.
Many people have been murdered because of a Strong Belief that they needed to die.
Hitler had Faith that Jews were harmful to his regime, thus his attempt at genocide.

Actions due to Faith have an extremely Ugly Side!
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/17/2014 3:04:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/17/2014 3:00:26 AM, Sagey wrote:
Well it seems that FAITH was just A Strong Belief in Something.
That Something may not be practical or true, but they performed actions because of that Strong Belief.

Though history has shown that in most cases, people acting out of such Strong Belief have caused more harm than good.
Many people have been murdered because of a Strong Belief that they needed to die.
Hitler had Faith that Jews were harmful to his regime, thus his attempt at genocide.

No, I'm forbidden to murder, if I do I might as well take a ticket to Hell lol
Actions due to Faith have an extremely Ugly Side!

You think Jesus' actions were ugly!??
Sagey
Posts: 51
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5/17/2014 3:10:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/17/2014 3:04:17 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/17/2014 3:00:26 AM, Sagey wrote:
Well it seems that FAITH was just A Strong Belief in Something.
That Something may not be practical or true, but they performed actions because of that Strong Belief.

Though history has shown that in most cases, people acting out of such Strong Belief have caused more harm than good.
Many people have been murdered because of a Strong Belief that they needed to die.
Hitler had Faith that Jews were harmful to his regime, thus his attempt at genocide.

No, I'm forbidden to murder, if I do I might as well take a ticket to Hell lol
Actions due to Faith have an extremely Ugly Side!

You think Jesus' actions were ugly!??

That is only 1 example of billions of bad examples of people acting out of FAITH.
One good action does not cancel out millions of bad actions.
Besides, nobody really knows what Jesus Christ truly did as a person.
He was likely having a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene.
His Teachings were Buddhist and/or Confucian.
Or so the Gospels reported, 30+ years after his death.
So since the Gospel writers never knew Jesus, except from legend.
Nobody is really sure what Jesus actually did nor said.
The resurrection was a farce, as all Gospel accounts differ.
Just ask the renowned highly qualified NT scholar Bart Ehrman.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/17/2014 3:13:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/17/2014 3:10:51 AM, Sagey wrote:
At 5/17/2014 3:04:17 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/17/2014 3:00:26 AM, Sagey wrote:
Well it seems that FAITH was just A Strong Belief in Something.
That Something may not be practical or true, but they performed actions because of that Strong Belief.

Though history has shown that in most cases, people acting out of such Strong Belief have caused more harm than good.
Many people have been murdered because of a Strong Belief that they needed to die.
Hitler had Faith that Jews were harmful to his regime, thus his attempt at genocide.

No, I'm forbidden to murder, if I do I might as well take a ticket to Hell lol
Actions due to Faith have an extremely Ugly Side!

You think Jesus' actions were ugly!??

That is only 1 example of billions of bad examples of people acting out of FAITH.
One good action does not cancel out millions of bad actions.
Besides, nobody really knows what Jesus Christ truly did as a person.
He was likely having a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene.
His Teachings were Buddhist and/or Confucian.
Or so the Gospels reported, 30+ years after his death.
So since the Gospel writers never knew Jesus, except from legend.
Nobody is really sure what Jesus actually did nor said.
The resurrection was a farce, as all Gospel accounts differ.
Just ask the renowned highly qualified NT scholar Bart Ehrman.

Yeah I didn't think so...