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Miss-Quoting Bible

Christian_Debater
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5/14/2014 10:34:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Just since there is a ton of religious topics here, and most of them on Christianity, I thought I'd put something out here that is really interesting.

Basically, a lot of people who debate against the Bible quote out of context. Not everyone, but there is a huge problem with doing this.

I'll give an example:

Deuteronomy 28:57
King James Version (KJV)

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

So you may be asking, "Is this what Christianity condones?" let's get some context.

Deuteronomy 28
King James Version (KJV)

28 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.

God basically lists the blessings.

15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

20 The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

Basically God's saying to not make him mad. He has saved your butt several times, he brought you out of slavery, you made him a promise to worship him, so just do it. (On a side note, even though they went against him, he was extremely nice to them anyways and didn't do most of the stuff here).

54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:

55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

So basically, what has been going on in this chapter? God said for them to obey his commandments. If not, X Y and Z will happen. Some of these things do happen in the Bible. The Jews go against God and stuff happens (just read Judges). However, this is saying something else. If you leave God, and don't obey him, you'll basically do this because of what will happen - basically, God is saying that I am protecting you and giving you food and everything. If you don't want it that is fine, but this is what will happen to you.

However, God is awesome and never goes that far anyways even after everything the Jews do to him in the Old Testament.

My main point, when you misquote the Bible out of context, it has entirely different meanings.

On a side note, Christians treat God badly at times too. We're all sinners =/.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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5/14/2014 10:59:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Yeah yeah, we have seen this all before.

When it says something or at least says something which could be used to support something you don't like.............hey person x is taking it out of context.

Let's take one example.......THOU SHALT NOT KILL. I mean that is pretty simple right ? or is it ?..................

Now what exactly does that mean or doesn't it mean ?

Does it mean you can't kill any living thing ?

Does it only apply to humans ?

Does it only apply to humans, but there are exemptions ?

IF there are exemptions what are those ? How are those exemptions determined ?

THOU SHALT NOT Kill I find is a favorite to use against abortion by christians.

But if you use the same THOU SHALT NOT KILL rule to condemn say dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan, HEY...................YOUR TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT !!!

And this is why you can make the bible pretty much say anything.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bulproof
Posts: 25,184
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5/14/2014 11:05:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 10:34:31 PM, Christian_Debater wrote:
Just since there is a ton of religious topics here, and most of them on Christianity, I thought I'd put something out here that is really interesting.

Basically, a lot of people who debate against the Bible quote out of context. Not everyone, but there is a huge problem with doing this.

I'll give an example:

Deuteronomy 28:57
King James Version (KJV)

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

So you may be asking, "Is this what Christianity condones?" let's get some context.

Deuteronomy 28
King James Version (KJV)

28 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.

God basically lists the blessings.

15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

20 The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

Basically God's saying to not make him mad. He has saved your butt several times, he brought you out of slavery, you made him a promise to worship him, so just do it. (On a side note, even though they went against him, he was extremely nice to them anyways and didn't do most of the stuff here).

54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:

55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

So basically, what has been going on in this chapter? God said for them to obey his commandments. If not, X Y and Z will happen. Some of these things do happen in the Bible. The Jews go against God and stuff happens (just read Judges). However, this is saying something else. If you leave God, and don't obey him, you'll basically do this because of what will happen - basically, God is saying that I am protecting you and giving you food and everything. If you don't want it that is fine, but this is what will happen to you.

However, God is awesome and never goes that far anyways even after everything the Jews do to him in the Old Testament.

My main point, when you misquote the Bible out of context, it has entirely different meanings.

On a side note, Christians treat God badly at times too. We're all sinners =/.

The in and out of context both say god is a horrible vindictive sociopath. I don't see the problem.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Christian_Debater
Posts: 24
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5/14/2014 11:18:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 11:05:32 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/14/2014 10:34:31 PM, Christian_Debater wrote:
Just since there is a ton of religious topics here, and most of them on Christianity, I thought I'd put something out here that is really interesting.

Basically, a lot of people who debate against the Bible quote out of context. Not everyone, but there is a huge problem with doing this.

I'll give an example:

Deuteronomy 28:57
King James Version (KJV)

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

So you may be asking, "Is this what Christianity condones?" let's get some context.

Deuteronomy 28
King James Version (KJV)

28 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.

God basically lists the blessings.

15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

20 The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

Basically God's saying to not make him mad. He has saved your butt several times, he brought you out of slavery, you made him a promise to worship him, so just do it. (On a side note, even though they went against him, he was extremely nice to them anyways and didn't do most of the stuff here).

54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:

55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.

56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,

57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.

So basically, what has been going on in this chapter? God said for them to obey his commandments. If not, X Y and Z will happen. Some of these things do happen in the Bible. The Jews go against God and stuff happens (just read Judges). However, this is saying something else. If you leave God, and don't obey him, you'll basically do this because of what will happen - basically, God is saying that I am protecting you and giving you food and everything. If you don't want it that is fine, but this is what will happen to you.

However, God is awesome and never goes that far anyways even after everything the Jews do to him in the Old Testament.

My main point, when you misquote the Bible out of context, it has entirely different meanings.

On a side note, Christians treat God badly at times too. We're all sinners =/.

The in and out of context both say god is a horrible vindictive sociopath. I don't see the problem.

Not really, I guess you didn't read everything I said :/
Christian_Debater
Posts: 24
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5/14/2014 11:20:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 10:59:23 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Yeah yeah, we have seen this all before.

When it says something or at least says something which could be used to support something you don't like.............hey person x is taking it out of context.

Let's take one example.......THOU SHALT NOT KILL. I mean that is pretty simple right ? or is it ?..................

Now what exactly does that mean or doesn't it mean ?

Does it mean you can't kill any living thing ?

Does it only apply to humans ?

Does it only apply to humans, but there are exemptions ?

IF there are exemptions what are those ? How are those exemptions determined ?

THOU SHALT NOT Kill I find is a favorite to use against abortion by christians.

But if you use the same THOU SHALT NOT KILL rule to condemn say dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan, HEY...................YOUR TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT !!!

And this is why you can make the bible pretty much say anything.

No... that is not what I'm talking about at all. Thou shall not kill means, do not kill. It's very simple.

What I am stating is this:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him getting drunk and hurting himself. If anything, lets bring him back drinks later."

Lets take what he said now out of context:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him."

Big difference.
Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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5/14/2014 11:37:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 11:20:35 PM, Christian_Debater wrote:
At 5/14/2014 10:59:23 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Yeah yeah, we have seen this all before.

When it says something or at least says something which could be used to support something you don't like.............hey person x is taking it out of context.

Let's take one example.......THOU SHALT NOT KILL. I mean that is pretty simple right ? or is it ?..................

Now what exactly does that mean or doesn't it mean ?

Does it mean you can't kill any living thing ?

Does it only apply to humans ?

Does it only apply to humans, but there are exemptions ?

IF there are exemptions what are those ? How are those exemptions determined ?

THOU SHALT NOT Kill I find is a favorite to use against abortion by christians.

But if you use the same THOU SHALT NOT KILL rule to condemn say dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan, HEY...................YOUR TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT !!!

And this is why you can make the bible pretty much say anything.

No... that is not what I'm talking about at all. Thou shall not kill means, do not kill. It's very simple.


What I am stating is this:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him getting drunk and hurting himself. If anything, lets bring him back drinks later."

Lets take what he said now out of context:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him."

Big difference.

You can make the bible say what you want it to, cause you can always restrict what it is saying by using the "context" clause or using it in a very unrestricted way by using no context.

See my THOU SHALT NOT KILL example.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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5/15/2014 12:42:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 11:37:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/14/2014 11:20:35 PM, Christian_Debater wrote:
At 5/14/2014 10:59:23 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Yeah yeah, we have seen this all before.

When it says something or at least says something which could be used to support something you don't like.............hey person x is taking it out of context.

Let's take one example.......THOU SHALT NOT KILL. I mean that is pretty simple right ? or is it ?..................

Now what exactly does that mean or doesn't it mean ?

Does it mean you can't kill any living thing ?

Does it only apply to humans ?

Does it only apply to humans, but there are exemptions ?

IF there are exemptions what are those ? How are those exemptions determined ?

THOU SHALT NOT Kill I find is a favorite to use against abortion by christians.

But if you use the same THOU SHALT NOT KILL rule to condemn say dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan, HEY...................YOUR TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT !!!

And this is why you can make the bible pretty much say anything.

No... that is not what I'm talking about at all. Thou shall not kill means, do not kill. It's very simple.



What I am stating is this:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him getting drunk and hurting himself. If anything, lets bring him back drinks later."

Lets take what he said now out of context:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him."

Big difference.

You can make the bible say what you want it to, cause you can always restrict what it is saying by using the "context" clause or using it in a very unrestricted way by using no context.

See my THOU SHALT NOT KILL example.

The fact is that the God of the bible does not obey his own laws. He says thou shalt not kill and then sends people out to kill others or kills them himself thus violating his own laws and appears to change his mind depending on circumstances. Basically the general idea is for humans to not kill anyone else unless God tells you to do it and then its OK to kill other people. Plenty of terrorists and psychopaths claim God told them to do the evil things they do. Apparently God won't stop them if they are doing the wrong thing but punishes them for doing it instead. People decide if they kill or not and who and what to kill or not kill.
We have the power to give life and also to take it.

Some people do misquote the bible but others just cherry pick what they want to use and don't want to know about the facts that the stories make God appear to be a hypocrite who basically commands people to do what they are commanded not to do.
Do not kill today but you can kill tomorrow when I say so... LOL.

How many call that merciful and forgiving of the enemies ?

How about killing the innocent so the guilty can go free?

God "loved" the sinners so much that he apparently allowed himself to be condemned to death by the hypocrites who believed in God. The result? Sinners continue to sin even when they claim to be converted.
They seem to get converted from nonreligious sinners to religious sinners.
What a miraculous conversion. LOL
Keltron
Posts: 161
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5/15/2014 12:52:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The biggest problem is that the words in the Bible are constantly ripped out of their historical context in a misguided effort to give them a contemporary import.
annanicole
Posts: 19,782
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5/15/2014 1:32:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 11:37:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/14/2014 11:20:35 PM, Christian_Debater wrote:
At 5/14/2014 10:59:23 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Yeah yeah, we have seen this all before.

When it says something or at least says something which could be used to support something you don't like.............hey person x is taking it out of context.

Let's take one example.......THOU SHALT NOT KILL. I mean that is pretty simple right ? or is it ?..................

Now what exactly does that mean or doesn't it mean ?

Does it mean you can't kill any living thing ?

Does it only apply to humans ?

Does it only apply to humans, but there are exemptions ?

IF there are exemptions what are those ? How are those exemptions determined ?

THOU SHALT NOT Kill I find is a favorite to use against abortion by christians.

But if you use the same THOU SHALT NOT KILL rule to condemn say dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan, HEY...................YOUR TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT !!!

And this is why you can make the bible pretty much say anything.

No... that is not what I'm talking about at all. Thou shall not kill means, do not kill. It's very simple.



What I am stating is this:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him getting drunk and hurting himself. If anything, lets bring him back drinks later."

Lets take what he said now out of context:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him."

Big difference.

You can make the bible say what you want it to, cause you can always restrict what it is saying by using the "context" clause or using it in a very unrestricted way by using no context.

See my THOU SHALT NOT KILL example.

To determine the meaning, you'll have to see how the command was "handled". In fact, it is best translated "Thou shalt do no murder". Obviously God does not consider wartime deaths to be a violation of the commandment, nor does He consider the killing of animals to be a violation.

There are plenty of examples of what is (and is not) considered "murder" in the Bible, and there is no need for any confusion on this point.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Christian_Debater
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5/15/2014 11:31:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/14/2014 11:37:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/14/2014 11:20:35 PM, Christian_Debater wrote:
At 5/14/2014 10:59:23 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Yeah yeah, we have seen this all before.

When it says something or at least says something which could be used to support something you don't like.............hey person x is taking it out of context.

Let's take one example.......THOU SHALT NOT KILL. I mean that is pretty simple right ? or is it ?..................

Now what exactly does that mean or doesn't it mean ?

Does it mean you can't kill any living thing ?

Does it only apply to humans ?

Does it only apply to humans, but there are exemptions ?

IF there are exemptions what are those ? How are those exemptions determined ?

THOU SHALT NOT Kill I find is a favorite to use against abortion by christians.

But if you use the same THOU SHALT NOT KILL rule to condemn say dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan, HEY...................YOUR TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT !!!

And this is why you can make the bible pretty much say anything.

No... that is not what I'm talking about at all. Thou shall not kill means, do not kill. It's very simple.



What I am stating is this:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him getting drunk and hurting himself. If anything, lets bring him back drinks later."

Lets take what he said now out of context:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him."

Big difference.

You can make the bible say what you want it to, cause you can always restrict what it is saying by using the "context" clause or using it in a very unrestricted way by using no context.

See my THOU SHALT NOT KILL example.

Well you can do that to anything. I can just take your sentence and turn it to "KILL". My main point is that the Bible is complicated, so to take it out of context is a bad thing to do.
Christian_Debater
Posts: 24
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5/15/2014 11:32:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/15/2014 1:32:39 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/14/2014 11:37:18 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/14/2014 11:20:35 PM, Christian_Debater wrote:
At 5/14/2014 10:59:23 PM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
Yeah yeah, we have seen this all before.

When it says something or at least says something which could be used to support something you don't like.............hey person x is taking it out of context.

Let's take one example.......THOU SHALT NOT KILL. I mean that is pretty simple right ? or is it ?..................

Now what exactly does that mean or doesn't it mean ?

Does it mean you can't kill any living thing ?

Does it only apply to humans ?

Does it only apply to humans, but there are exemptions ?

IF there are exemptions what are those ? How are those exemptions determined ?

THOU SHALT NOT Kill I find is a favorite to use against abortion by christians.

But if you use the same THOU SHALT NOT KILL rule to condemn say dropping a nuclear bomb on Japan, HEY...................YOUR TAKING IT OUT OF CONTEXT !!!

And this is why you can make the bible pretty much say anything.

No... that is not what I'm talking about at all. Thou shall not kill means, do not kill. It's very simple.



What I am stating is this:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him getting drunk and hurting himself. If anything, lets bring him back drinks later."

Lets take what he said now out of context:

Charlie says, "Hey Lisa, lets go out to the bar. Just don't invite Clark, I hate him."

Big difference.

You can make the bible say what you want it to, cause you can always restrict what it is saying by using the "context" clause or using it in a very unrestricted way by using no context.

See my THOU SHALT NOT KILL example.

To determine the meaning, you'll have to see how the command was "handled". In fact, it is best translated "Thou shalt do no murder". Obviously God does not consider wartime deaths to be a violation of the commandment, nor does He consider the killing of animals to be a violation.

There are plenty of examples of what is (and is not) considered "murder" in the Bible, and there is no need for any confusion on this point.

You are right about what you claim here.