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Question for Atheists

merbear2536
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5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?
AlbinoBunny
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5/18/2014 1:58:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

I believe evolution.
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Martley
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5/18/2014 2:50:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Oh if it were only that simple!!!

Here is the tip of the iceberg.

http://plato.stanford.edu...
A Black Belt is a white belt who never quit.

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ArcTImes
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5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.
merbear2536
Posts: 35
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5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?
Envisage
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5/18/2014 4:00:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

This is evidently false, most Christians I would argue hold a very different sense of morality to that depicted in the bible. In fact the way they read it tells more about the person reading it rather than what it actually says.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?

The questions are not easy to answer, no. Especially when we don't have the work allegedly all done for us in a holy text, it means we are much more accountable and responsible for our actions.

It seems that someone only being moral because of their religious beliefs devalues the actions taken by that person, where it true that their morals are principle derived from religion. In some cases this is true, but in modern times this is increasingly false, and religion is seen as an increasing hinderance to building a moral and civil society.
ArcTImes
Posts: 294
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5/18/2014 4:07:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?

You say generally people got their morals from their religion. I guess you say generally because not all religious people get their morals from there. It's so common people disagreeing with their religions and creating new branches of religions, specially in Christianity.

About the question, it's the same for religions. Are they right? You can't just believe everything from their books are right. You need to question , analyze and reason if those things are right.

For example, gay marriage. A lot of religions are against it, and not only marriage, but the simple act. We reason and challenge those beliefs. Now gay marriage and it's acceptance is more common each day.

If 2 people disagree, we reason, maybe we debate to find what is best for everyone.
merbear2536
Posts: 35
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5/18/2014 4:40:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:00:44 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

This is evidently false, most Christians I would argue hold a very different sense of morality to that depicted in the bible. In fact the way they read it tells more about the person reading it rather than what it actually says.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?

The questions are not easy to answer, no. Especially when we don't have the work allegedly all done for us in a holy text, it means we are much more accountable and responsible for our actions.

It seems that someone only being moral because of their religious beliefs devalues the actions taken by that person, where it true that their morals are principle derived from religion. In some cases this is true, but in modern times this is increasingly false, and religion is seen as an increasing hinderance to building a moral and civil society.

I did not say every single person that calls themself a Christian has morals according to the Bible. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christians but live lives totally contrary to the Bible. Either way, if you are a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc., you would say you get your morals from your teachings.

Ok so why do you do what is right then? If there is nothing after this life then why do good? Since there is no consequence for doing bad.
merbear2536
Posts: 35
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5/18/2014 4:50:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:07:16 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
If 2 people disagree, we reason, maybe we debate to find what is best for everyone.

Ok so what you just said is that people don't create morals, they "find" them. Your whole point of humans finding out what is best for everyone does not explain how morals were created. Similarily, Isaac Newton did not create gravity, he DISCOVERED it. I want to know how were morals created?
ArcTImes
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5/18/2014 4:52:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:40:34 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Ok so why do you do what is right then? If there is nothing after this life then why do good? Since there is no consequence for doing bad.

For the same reasons we have morals. We see that our actions affect others and the actions of others affect us. We empathize with each other.

Doing good things because of punishments is not a good reason to do good things. I mean, really_ You should feel ashamed for asking something like that. But it's cool, I know you don't do good things because you will get punishment. You do these good things because you know that your morals come from reasoning. Because you know that if you kill or rape, you are affecting the lives of other people. The only lives they have. And you would not like your life affected either.
Envisage
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5/18/2014 4:56:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:50:51 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 4:07:16 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
If 2 people disagree, we reason, maybe we debate to find what is best for everyone.

Ok so what you just said is that people don't create morals, they "find" them. Your whole point of humans finding out what is best for everyone does not explain how morals were created. Similarily, Isaac Newton did not create gravity, he DISCOVERED it. I want to know how were morals created?

I don't see why morals ever had to be created. What is regarded as moral depends in what you accept as axiomatic for determining it. In math you accept certain axioms and you discover truths based on those axioms, nobody invented the number pi, it just is. Similarly, objective moral truths don't necessarily need to be created, if they are just a solution dependant on the concious beings involved.

The closest answer I guess you can get to how these truths got set is provided by evolution and sociology. I don't think moral truths are static though, they change depending on the population, and how things are perceived. Some actions that cause suffering for one set of concious beings could instead cause bliss for another...
ArcTImes
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5/18/2014 5:01:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:50:51 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 4:07:16 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
If 2 people disagree, we reason, maybe we debate to find what is best for everyone.

Ok so what you just said is that people don't create morals, they "find" them. Your whole point of humans finding out what is best for everyone does not explain how morals were created. Similarily, Isaac Newton did not create gravity, he DISCOVERED it. I want to know how were morals created?

You know what's the problem with what you are asking? You are trying to hard to find god that you are asking bad questions. "How morals were created" would make sense if you actually believes humans created our morals.

Look it this way. There is reality, but our senses are shitty and we are not perfect, so we could be wrong. We create models of knowledge to avoid the limits of our senses as much as we can.

Morals are just what we think is good or wrong, that's the reason people have different morals. Morals are relative. This is not the same as moral relativism. I'm not saying that everyone is right. The fact that we can do the best to not affect negatively to others doesn't mean that "morals were created by god". It just.. the connection is not there.

Morals are as created by humans as languages. Languages were not created, with some exceptions like Korean. They appeared gradually. We cannot say we discovered them tho, it's not black and white.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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5/18/2014 5:04:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:40:34 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 4:00:44 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

This is evidently false, most Christians I would argue hold a very different sense of morality to that depicted in the bible. In fact the way they read it tells more about the person reading it rather than what it actually says.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?

The questions are not easy to answer, no. Especially when we don't have the work allegedly all done for us in a holy text, it means we are much more accountable and responsible for our actions.

It seems that someone only being moral because of their religious beliefs devalues the actions taken by that person, where it true that their morals are principle derived from religion. In some cases this is true, but in modern times this is increasingly false, and religion is seen as an increasing hinderance to building a moral and civil society.

I did not say every single person that calls themself a Christian has morals according to the Bible. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christians but live lives totally contrary to the Bible. Either way, if you are a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc., you would say you get your morals from your teachings.

And if you did then you would be fooling yourself it seems. And a lot if people is closer to 'the vast majority', especially in the west.

Ok so why do you do what is right then? If there is nothing after this life then why do good? Since there is no consequence for doing bad.

Because I don't want to live in an anarchical society, my actions impact society, and societies' actions impact me. My actions don't happen in a vacuum, and bad actions do have consequences. What happens in this life seems that much more important since there is not a second shot... An afterlife seems to take away the value of what happens in this one, as it's just a prequel to the main show. There is a reason why there are such willing suicide bombers... Although I agree it's a more extreme example.

Life and everything may not have ultimate meaning, but it's the meaning given by the concious beings here and now that counts, and is pretty much mostly what I care about.
SNP1
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5/18/2014 5:24:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Morality comes from our cognitive function of empathy. We feel the "need" to do what is "right" because we are social beings, so we use ethics to make decisions about the society we live in and our own personal morality for personal decisions.

If a society consists of one person then the society's ethics and the individual's morals will match up perfectly, but when a society has more than one person the ethics and morality will be different.

As social being, ethics hold a huge impact on us, but people will still make actions based off of their own ideals of morality, which is why crimes happen in societies.
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
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Chimera
Posts: 178
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5/18/2014 8:26:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Well, morality from a universal perspective doesn't exist. Not everyone feels compelled to have the same set of ethics as the next person.

Some people, those we call insane, break from these ethics and become outcasts. A man who murdered his entire family will have a far different say as to what is 'right' and 'wrong' than the man who just came home from a long day at work to a loving family.

We feel the need to do what we view as being 'right' because all humans view themselves as being 'right' about things. Not everyone does what is universally 'right' nor do they feel the need to do what is universally 'right' because there is no such thing as universally 'right'.

Ethics are only socio-biological 'rules' that were intended to keep hunter-gatherer packs together. In this sense, ethics are the original codes of law. They weren't devised by religion. Religions were only inventions created by mankind as a means to explain why we have ethics in the first place. Using the concept of God or Gods to explain this phenomenon However, science has been able to explain this with far more evidence than religious texts have.

However, as I said, the simple answer is that universal ethics or 'morality' don't exist. Morality is a concept that can only be existent from an individual perspective.
merbear2536
Posts: 35
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5/18/2014 8:39:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Alright so what I'm getting here is that morals are decided by different cultures and societies based on what is best for survival? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Let me ask you this then. In Germany, Hitler managed to convince most of his people that Arians were superior to all the other "races". That culture decided it was right for them to mistreat the minorities. Nowadays it is obviously wrong to do what they did to people who were "inferior". From what most of you just explained this event was right because the majority of the people thought it would be best for their society if they weren't around.

What about people that killed "witches"? most of the people believe society was better if theses witches were killed. Does this make this practice right?

Or what about slavery? Most people in the South thought it best for the society to be able to own slaves. Even though it is obviously wrong to have slavery.
Fruitytree
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5/18/2014 9:02:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 1:58:41 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

I believe evolution.

Evolution what ? why does evolution want you to be moral, or want you to still exist ?! I remind you evolution isn't a sentient being !!
Chimera
Posts: 178
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5/18/2014 10:14:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 8:39:30 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so what I'm getting here is that morals are decided by different cultures and societies based on what is best for survival? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Let me ask you this then. In Germany, Hitler managed to convince most of his people that Arians were superior to all the other "races". That culture decided it was right for them to mistreat the minorities. Nowadays it is obviously wrong to do what they did to people who were "inferior". From what most of you just explained this event was right because the majority of the people thought it would be best for their society if they weren't around.

What about people that killed "witches"? most of the people believe society was better if theses witches were killed. Does this make this practice right?

Or what about slavery? Most people in the South thought it best for the society to be able to own slaves. Even though it is obviously wrong to have slavery.

If Nazism is 'obviously wrong' then why are there international neo-nazi groups that praise Hitler for what he did? It isn't 'obviously wrong' because there is no such thing.

Just because the majority says so doesn't make it right, that is true. However, that isn't what we, or at least I, was saying.

What I said was that ethics themselves don't exist on a universal standpoint. Not that ethics decided by the majority is considered universally moral. If anything, you just further proved the point that some cultures have different sets of ethics than others.

Nazi Germany, The CSA, and Europe during the Inquisition all had this in common. They went against what is considered modern ethics, but were following their own sense of ethics. The ethics that they had, and to some extent what we have, were imprinted onto them by ideologies that reigned supreme in their areas at the time.

They weren't determined by survival, the only time they were determined by such was when we were in hunter-gatherer tribes. They were determined by the survival of the ideology whether it be politcal, social, religious, economic, etc. The only reason as to why these ethics have changed is because the ideology that won the war against these opposing ideologies forced these ideologies to concede to correction and realignment with the 'winning' ideology.

The same thing happened with the culture war in the 20's, and again in the 60's and 70's here in America. Young people rose up with new ideas on culture and formed a new ideology to combat the incumbent one. Once these new ideologies won, they defamed the old ideology and caused young people today to look back on culture in the 50's as backward and 'abnormal'.
drhead
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5/19/2014 2:17:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:40:34 PM, merbear2536 wrote:

Ok so why do you do what is right then? If there is nothing after this life then why do good? Since there is no consequence for doing bad.

So the only reason that you aren't murdering everyone in the street is that you believe you will be rewarded for it in the afterlife? I would recommend thinking that through a bit. Until then, please keep your distance.

To answer your question, though, I simply think that people will, in general, be happier if we simply don't go out of our way to harm people.
Wall of Fail

"You reject religion... calling it a sickness, to what ends??? Are you a Homosexual??" - Dogknox
"For me, Evolution is a zombie theory. I mean imaginary cartoons and wishful thinking support it?" - Dragonfang
"There are no mental health benefits of atheism. It is devoid of rational thinking and mental protection." - Gabrian
intellectuallyprimitive
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5/19/2014 2:52:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
And why do we feel the need to do what is right?"

Sociopath- The comprehension of the concept of right and wrong is either devoid or abysmal in comparison to a non sociopath individual.

I would be profoundly engrossed to perceive the answer from a sociopath in response to your question.
AlbinoBunny
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5/19/2014 4:35:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 9:02:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/18/2014 1:58:41 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

I believe evolution.

Evolution what ? why does evolution want you to be moral, or want you to still exist ?! I remind you evolution isn't a sentient being !!

Nothing to do with what evolution wants, just what it causes.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
AlbinoBunny
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5/19/2014 4:37:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?

So you're suggesting that the only reason religious people don't want to kill others is because their religion tells them not to?
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!
merbear2536
Posts: 35
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5/19/2014 7:48:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 10:14:22 PM, Chimera wrote:
At 5/18/2014 8:39:30 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so what I'm getting here is that morals are decided by different cultures and societies based on what is best for survival? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Let me ask you this then. In Germany, Hitler managed to convince most of his people that Arians were superior to all the other "races". That culture decided it was right for them to mistreat the minorities. Nowadays it is obviously wrong to do what they did to people who were "inferior". From what most of you just explained this event was right because the majority of the people thought it would be best for their society if they weren't around.

What about people that killed "witches"? most of the people believe society was better if theses witches were killed. Does this make this practice right?

Or what about slavery? Most people in the South thought it best for the society to be able to own slaves. Even though it is obviously wrong to have slavery.

If Nazism is 'obviously wrong' then why are there international neo-nazi groups that praise Hitler for what he did? It isn't 'obviously wrong' because there is no such thing.

Just because the majority says so doesn't make it right, that is true. However, that isn't what we, or at least I, was saying.

What I said was that ethics themselves don't exist on a universal standpoint. Not that ethics decided by the majority is considered universally moral. If anything, you just further proved the point that some cultures have different sets of ethics than others.

Nazi Germany, The CSA, and Europe during the Inquisition all had this in common. They went against what is considered modern ethics, but were following their own sense of ethics. The ethics that they had, and to some extent what we have, were imprinted onto them by ideologies that reigned supreme in their areas at the time.

They weren't determined by survival, the only time they were determined by such was when we were in hunter-gatherer tribes. They were determined by the survival of the ideology whether it be politcal, social, religious, economic, etc. The only reason as to why these ethics have changed is because the ideology that won the war against these opposing ideologies forced these ideologies to concede to correction and realignment with the 'winning' ideology.

The same thing happened with the culture war in the 20's, and again in the 60's and 70's here in America. Young people rose up with new ideas on culture and formed a new ideology to combat the incumbent one. Once these new ideologies won, they defamed the old ideology and caused young people today to look back on culture in the 50's as backward and 'abnormal'.

Alright so it is not obviously wrong that Hitler killed millions of people?? I find this rather strange. Just because there are groups that follow him today does not mean that they are right.

And also, you just said there is no right or wrong universally. Is that the same for truth? Truth and morality go hand in hand.
Chimera
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5/19/2014 5:41:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 7:48:46 AM, merbear2536 wrote:

Alright so it is not obviously wrong that Hitler killed millions of people?? I find this rather strange. Just because there are groups that follow him today does not mean that they are right.

And also, you just said there is no right or wrong universally. Is that the same for truth? Truth and morality go hand in hand.

It is wrong by our ethical standards (determined by our ideology) that it was obviously wrong. However, ask yourself what the Nazis would have thought if they won the ideology war in WWII. Would they think that they were wrong? Obviously not, since they won the ideology war.

Truth and morality don't go hand in hand. Truth is objective, and can be universal. For instance, 2+2 will always equal 4. We can see and measure this. Morality on the other hand, is subjective. It's based on opinion and bias instead of actual fact. Therefore a set of universal ethics cannot exist.

So, right and wrong do not exist universally. But truths can and have been shown to be existent universally through fact.
Fruitytree
Posts: 2,176
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5/19/2014 5:43:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 4:35:00 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 9:02:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/18/2014 1:58:41 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

I believe evolution.

Evolution what ? why does evolution want you to be moral, or want you to still exist ?! I remind you evolution isn't a sentient being !!

Nothing to do with what evolution wants, just what it causes.

Why does evolution causes Morality only with people (and not with white rabbits for example) ?!

And also why do many atheists ascribe every phenomenon they can't explain to "Evolution"?
Bannanawamajama
Posts: 125
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5/19/2014 6:10:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would say morality derives from utilitarianism. We believe things that produce beneficial consequences are "good" and those that produce negative consequences to us are "bad". However, what is a good or bad consequence becomes more complicated by society.

Since society produces more benefits to people than almost anything else, we consider society and preserving it morally good. This is why killing someone is morally wrong, because that hurts society, which in turn hurts us since we benefit from it. On the other hand, killing in self defense or the defense of others is acceptable, because the other person was harming society, so killing them was to societies benefit, and therefore our own.

At 5/19/2014 5:43:18 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/19/2014 4:35:00 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 9:02:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/18/2014 1:58:41 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

I believe evolution.

Evolution what ? why does evolution want you to be moral, or want you to still exist ?! I remind you evolution isn't a sentient being !!

Nothing to do with what evolution wants, just what it causes.

Why does evolution causes Morality only with people (and not with white rabbits for example) ?!

And also why do many atheists ascribe every phenomenon they can't explain to "Evolution"?

I think animals could be capable of comprehending morality, and we see isolated incidents where animals do do things that are purely benevolent, like when a dog puts itself in danger to save its owner. But for the most part, animals instinctually think only about survival, and how to get their next meal, etc. So even though they have morality, most of the time they don't consider it because survival takes up all their thoughts.

Atheists ascribe everything to evolution for the same reason theists ascribe everything to God. Evolution is what made humanity the way it is, so every aspect of it is in some way attributable to it, the same way you would say we have morality because God gave it to us when he created mankind.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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5/19/2014 6:19:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/19/2014 5:43:18 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/19/2014 4:35:00 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 9:02:56 PM, Fruitytree wrote:
At 5/18/2014 1:58:41 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

I believe evolution.

Evolution what ? why does evolution want you to be moral, or want you to still exist ?! I remind you evolution isn't a sentient being !!

Nothing to do with what evolution wants, just what it causes.

Why does evolution causes Morality only with people (and not with white rabbits for example) ?!

And also why do many atheists ascribe every phenomenon they can't explain to "Evolution"?

Well, what do you define as morality?

Morality is just a code of conduct. Many animals have this. Particularly, the most social animals.

Human morals concern the relations of humans with other humans 99% of the time, and this matches with the fact that humans are the most social creature.

Primates are the second most social animals (generally), and have the second most complex system of morality (look up customs, conduct, and familial bonds within primate communities).

Your appeal to the fact that some animals don't have a system of morality is just a half-a**ed strawman.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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5/19/2014 6:22:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?

And people never disagree within theism?

How do you resolve who is right when there is a religious schism? How did you decide that your 2000 year old holy book is more valid than someone else's 2000 year old holy book?

You will answer me one of two ways, either 1. Faith (which is basically your feelings), or 2. Reason.

So I will answer your question about disagreements the same way, my feelings and/or my reason decides who is right.

Stop acting like these things only apply to atheists.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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5/19/2014 6:26:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:40:34 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 4:00:44 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:51:46 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 3:39:32 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
At 5/18/2014 12:54:13 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
Alright so I have been researching and have a question atheists.

Where did morality come from? And why do we feel the need to do what is right?

Why is this a question for atheists? Where did morality come from? From reason. We need to think and evaluate different scenarios and reason to know if it's what we call right or wrong.

We see that our actions affect others just like the actions of others affect us.

The question was for atheists because generally people get their morals from their religion. Christians and Jews from the Bible, Muslims from the Quran, etc. Atheists don't have a book to go by so I was wondering how they come up with what is right and wrong.

This is evidently false, most Christians I would argue hold a very different sense of morality to that depicted in the bible. In fact the way they read it tells more about the person reading it rather than what it actually says.

As to your answer, what if two people come up with a different conclusion about whats right from the same scenario? who is right? are they both right?

The questions are not easy to answer, no. Especially when we don't have the work allegedly all done for us in a holy text, it means we are much more accountable and responsible for our actions.

It seems that someone only being moral because of their religious beliefs devalues the actions taken by that person, where it true that their morals are principle derived from religion. In some cases this is true, but in modern times this is increasingly false, and religion is seen as an increasing hinderance to building a moral and civil society.

I did not say every single person that calls themself a Christian has morals according to the Bible. There are a lot of people who claim to be Christians but live lives totally contrary to the Bible. Either way, if you are a Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc., you would say you get your morals from your teachings.

Ok so why do you do what is right then? If there is nothing after this life then why do good? Since there is no consequence for doing bad.

Glad we've established this:

You only do good things then so God gives you happiness in the afterlife.

Please tell me, how are you any better than the child who only does good things to get presents from Santa at the end of the year?

This is the great irony, when theists act like they have the moral high ground, but the only reason they do good is for their own benefit.

I do good things because my conscience warrants that I do so. I don't give two s***s about what happens to me in the afterlife, unlike you, who does good things for your own personal gain.

I think we see that the question of true morality is on YOU.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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5/19/2014 6:27:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/18/2014 4:50:51 PM, merbear2536 wrote:
At 5/18/2014 4:07:16 PM, ArcTImes wrote:
If 2 people disagree, we reason, maybe we debate to find what is best for everyone.

Ok so what you just said is that people don't create morals, they "find" them. Your whole point of humans finding out what is best for everyone does not explain how morals were created. Similarily, Isaac Newton did not create gravity, he DISCOVERED it. I want to know how were morals created?

Look up altruism in a biology textbook. Or google it.

Natural selection chooses traits that ensure the survival of the species (generally).

Morality is a complex code of conduct that ensures altruism, which ensures the survival of humanity, which explains why it was selected, supposing natural selection to be true.