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I Create Evil

Skyangel
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5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/20/2014 7:58:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Now let's take a look at this verse in it's entirety where God "admits" TO CYRUS, that CYRUS can be confident.
Isaiah 45
1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

This famous verse that is taken out of contexts is ADDRESSED to Cyrus, to assure CYRUS that God is in control of CYRUS' calling.

Now this is what God thinks about evil and those who commit it.

James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/20/2014 8:22:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

The opposites are not created, they occur naturally, like if you pour oil into water they separate. Evil is not an entity, but entities can do evil, or good. That good or evil then effects the environment, thus creating evil or good.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/20/2014 8:48:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

Well one could translate that into you saying that there is a "reason" for hunger, pain and wrongs, evil..... Rather than that they just occur naturally with every action we decide. I don't see how those are necessary, or created. For example I know I don't like pickles because I tasted one, not because I didn't. I know I don't like pain because I broke my leg, not because you did.
Likewise I don't need kids to starve to death in another country to enjoy a meal, or for someone to die to be grateful....
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/20/2014 8:55:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 8:48:07 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

Well one could translate that into you saying that there is a "reason" for hunger, pain and wrongs, evil..... Rather than that they just occur naturally with every action we decide. I don't see how those are necessary, or created. For example I know I don't like pickles because I tasted one, not because I didn't. I know I don't like pain because I broke my leg, not because you did.
Likewise I don't need kids to starve to death in another country to enjoy a meal, or for someone to die to be grateful....

I don't know what point you are trying to make by mixing-up people's experiences. Without hunger you would starve to death. Without pain you would die at a young age from all the injuries you would sustain. There are medical conditions which lead to this. Without the choice to do wrong then you could never choose to do right, since it would be the only option on the table and thus wouldn't be a choice. There are actually a lot of people who practice not drinking or eating until they are very hungry or thirsty simply to increase their enjoyment of drinking and eating. If you want to increase one then it's necessary to increase the other.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/20/2014 9:01:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 8:55:20 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:48:07 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

Well one could translate that into you saying that there is a "reason" for hunger, pain and wrongs, evil..... Rather than that they just occur naturally with every action we decide. I don't see how those are necessary, or created. For example I know I don't like pickles because I tasted one, not because I didn't. I know I don't like pain because I broke my leg, not because you did.
Likewise I don't need kids to starve to death in another country to enjoy a meal, or for someone to die to be grateful....

I don't know what point you are trying to make by mixing-up people's experiences. Without hunger you would starve to death. Without pain you would die at a young age from all the injuries you would sustain. There are medical conditions which lead to this. Without the choice to do wrong then you could never choose to do right, since it would be the only option on the table and thus wouldn't be a choice. There are actually a lot of people who practice not drinking or eating until they are very hungry or thirsty simply to increase their enjoyment of drinking and eating. If you want to increase one then it's necessary to increase the other.

You said necessary, I say why? That's all, I thought you were implying that God creates these things for us to enjoy other things, maybe I misunderstood, my question is underlined, my fault.
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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5/20/2014 9:15:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:01:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:55:20 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:48:07 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

Well one could translate that into you saying that there is a "reason" for hunger, pain and wrongs, evil..... Rather than that they just occur naturally with every action we decide. I don't see how those are necessary, or created. For example I know I don't like pickles because I tasted one, not because I didn't. I know I don't like pain because I broke my leg, not because you did.
Likewise I don't need kids to starve to death in another country to enjoy a meal, or for someone to die to be grateful....

I don't know what point you are trying to make by mixing-up people's experiences. Without hunger you would starve to death. Without pain you would die at a young age from all the injuries you would sustain. There are medical conditions which lead to this. Without the choice to do wrong then you could never choose to do right, since it would be the only option on the table and thus wouldn't be a choice. There are actually a lot of people who practice not drinking or eating until they are very hungry or thirsty simply to increase their enjoyment of drinking and eating. If you want to increase one then it's necessary to increase the other.

You said necessary, I say why? That's all, I thought you were implying that God creates these things for us to enjoy other things, maybe I misunderstood, my question is underlined, my fault.

Oh, okay. I think I see where you are coming from now. All I was saying is that every coin has a "heads" and a "tails." There are no one-sided coins, so to speak. :)
philochristos
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5/20/2014 10:20:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.

There are two kinds of evil--natural evil and moral evil. People DO natural evil, but what Isaiah is talking about is natural evil, which is the same thing as disaster. For example, if a tornado wiped out a trailer park, that would be an example of a natural evil. It isn't a moral evil that somebody does. So God creating natural evil has nothing to do with people doing evil.

God creates natural evils for a number of reasons. For example, he brought plagues on Egypt to punish Pharaoh and to make a name for himself. But we can't always know why God creates some particular natural evil.

Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

That depends on the opposite. I suppose he created opposite charges in electrons and protons so atoms would hold together. Maybe he created white things and black things for the sake of contrast. Etc.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/21/2014 8:14:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:15:28 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:01:13 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:55:20 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:48:07 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

Well one could translate that into you saying that there is a "reason" for hunger, pain and wrongs, evil..... Rather than that they just occur naturally with every action we decide. I don't see how those are necessary, or created. For example I know I don't like pickles because I tasted one, not because I didn't. I know I don't like pain because I broke my leg, not because you did.
Likewise I don't need kids to starve to death in another country to enjoy a meal, or for someone to die to be grateful....

I don't know what point you are trying to make by mixing-up people's experiences. Without hunger you would starve to death. Without pain you would die at a young age from all the injuries you would sustain. There are medical conditions which lead to this. Without the choice to do wrong then you could never choose to do right, since it would be the only option on the table and thus wouldn't be a choice. There are actually a lot of people who practice not drinking or eating until they are very hungry or thirsty simply to increase their enjoyment of drinking and eating. If you want to increase one then it's necessary to increase the other.

You said necessary, I say why? That's all, I thought you were implying that God creates these things for us to enjoy other things, maybe I misunderstood, my question is underlined, my fault.

Oh, okay. I think I see where you are coming from now. All I was saying is that every coin has a "heads" and a "tails." There are no one-sided coins, so to speak. :)

Yep, agree :)
Juan_Pablo
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5/21/2014 8:24:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Skyangel, in my theology God is also a devil; it's God's job to maximize stress and destroy civilizations that don't promote mutual joy, happiness and stability in the world (this last one is VERY IMPORTANT).

God can be very destructive when he needs to be, in order to salvage the greater world.

One way we can reduce God's wrath and general unhappiness on the planet is by promoting goodness and peace in our world. We should also advocate personal responsibility and our obligation to protect the Earth for wildlife and for future generations. These last two are just as JUST AS IMPORTANT.

There's no need to force God to be a devil; he can be an angel if we just work with each other to promote the general welfare of human life on this planet; we should also respect other biological life and take only what we truly need.
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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5/21/2014 11:14:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

God has created all, so obviously he has created also those who are evil. But I think evil is because God has been rejected and people have chosen not to obey God.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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5/21/2014 1:15:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 8:22:25 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

The opposites are not created, they occur naturally, like if you pour oil into water they separate. Evil is not an entity, but entities can do evil, or good. That good or evil then effects the environment, thus creating evil or good.

Another point to make, here (in keeping with what Matt has posted), is that the difference between good/evil or tool/weapon is the intent of the wielder. Both good and evil are (must be) a conscious choice. Since I reject the bible, I also reject the proposition that gawd created evil. Conscious choice is the determinant factor for every good, evil, and 'other' act/event. To assume that a passage was actually referring to willfully creating that which the author's gawd purportedly detests...
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/21/2014 2:41:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 1:15:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:22:25 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

The opposites are not created, they occur naturally, like if you pour oil into water they separate. Evil is not an entity, but entities can do evil, or good. That good or evil then effects the environment, thus creating evil or good.

Another point to make, here (in keeping with what Matt has posted), is that the difference between good/evil or tool/weapon is the intent of the wielder. Both good and evil are (must be) a conscious choice. Since I reject the bible, I also reject the proposition that gawd created evil. Conscious choice is the determinant factor for every good, evil, and 'other' act/event. To assume that a passage was actually referring to willfully creating that which the author's gawd purportedly detests...

Ahhh, how very logical of you.
irreverent_god
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5/21/2014 3:50:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:41:45 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Another point to make, here (in keeping with what Matt has posted), is that the difference between good/evil or tool/weapon is the intent of the wielder. Both good and evil are (must be) a conscious choice. Since I reject the bible, I also reject the proposition that gawd created evil. Conscious choice is the determinant factor for every good, evil, and 'other' act/event. To assume that a passage was actually referring to willfully creating that which the author's gawd purportedly detests...

Ahhh, how very logical of you.

You better quit accusing me of that, mister!
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
SemperVI
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5/21/2014 4:05:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

Well stated Idealist.
Idealist
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5/21/2014 9:57:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 4:05:20 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

Well stated Idealist.

Thank you. :)
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 8:18:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 7:58:18 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Now let's take a look at this verse in it's entirety where God "admits" TO CYRUS, that CYRUS can be confident.
Isaiah 45
1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

This famous verse that is taken out of contexts is ADDRESSED to Cyrus, to assure CYRUS that God is in control of CYRUS' calling.


Now this is what God thinks about evil and those who commit it.

James 1
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.


Even in its entirety, God still admits to creating darkness and evil. Taking that verse out of its context does not change its meaning. It still means exactly the same as what it means in the context.
Look at verse 5.
If there are no other gods than the "LORD", there can be no evil type gods either like the "devil" as a separate entity.

Good (God) and evil (Devil) are as much a part of each other as night and day are part of a whole day. Opposites need each other in order for either to exist. It is like a heads and tail on any coin. The coin is not two coins but one coin with two sides. Good and evil exist together as one unit. What one person perceives as good and healthy another might consider as very bad and even poisonous.
It's a matter of human taste, perception and belief.
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 8:24:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 8:22:25 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

The opposites are not created, they occur naturally, like if you pour oil into water they separate. Evil is not an entity, but entities can do evil, or good. That good or evil then effects the environment, thus creating evil or good.

Are you implying that God created nothing good and nothing evil but good and evil exist naturally without any God?
I agree evil is not an entity.
There are no supernatural entities. Living beings are the only entities in reality. It is only humans who do good and evil or create good and evil and judge others as good or evil. Animals make no judgments or condemn each other in the same way humans do.
Good and evil are nothing but judgments made only by humans.
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 8:28:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

I agree with all you say except there would be no "average" either because in order to have an average of anything you need to have extremes. Everything would simply be exactly what it is only without human judgments upon it.
Idealist
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5/22/2014 8:35:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:28:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

I agree with all you say except there would be no "average" either because in order to have an average of anything you need to have extremes. Everything would simply be exactly what it is only without human judgments upon it.

So when a star ingests and incinerates an entire planet that is just a human judgement? The planet isn't really affected by the extreme heat?
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 8:38:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 9:15:28 PM, Idealist wrote:

Oh, okay. I think I see where you are coming from now. All I was saying is that every coin has a "heads" and a "tails." There are no one-sided coins, so to speak. :)

I agree that there are no one sided coins and that principle applies to all of life. Opposite sides always make up the whole picture.
I think people who see the character God in the bible as purely and only good and the devil character as purely and only evil, are a bit like the one sided coin. They are not whole.
It is as if they separating the darkness (devil/evil) and the light (God /good) into two different "coins" instead of understanding they need each other to make the whole "coin".
Idealist
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5/22/2014 8:43:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:38:32 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:15:28 PM, Idealist wrote:

Oh, okay. I think I see where you are coming from now. All I was saying is that every coin has a "heads" and a "tails." There are no one-sided coins, so to speak. :)

I agree that there are no one sided coins and that principle applies to all of life. Opposite sides always make up the whole picture.
I think people who see the character God in the bible as purely and only good and the devil character as purely and only evil, are a bit like the one sided coin. They are not whole.
It is as if they separating the darkness (devil/evil) and the light (God /good) into two different "coins" instead of understanding they need each other to make the whole "coin".

That is something we can totally agree on. Everything needs an opposite side to make a whole "coin."
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 8:48:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/20/2014 10:20:08 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.

There are two kinds of evil--natural evil and moral evil. People DO natural evil, but what Isaiah is talking about is natural evil, which is the same thing as disaster. For example, if a tornado wiped out a trailer park, that would be an example of a natural evil. It isn't a moral evil that somebody does. So God creating natural evil has nothing to do with people doing evil.

Natural disasters are not evil although they being pain and destruction to much life. They are what they are. Sometimes a natural disaster like a bush fire for example can be a good thing because it burns all the rubbish in the bush and also kills any disease carrying bacteria which might be fatal to life. There are good and bad sides to all things. The good which results from destruction is that the things which are destroyed are replaced by new fresh things.

God creates natural evils for a number of reasons. For example, he brought plagues on Egypt to punish Pharaoh and to make a name for himself. But we can't always know why God creates some particular natural evil.

Plagues, earthquakes, famine, etc are all natural disasters. No supernatural person sends them to punish humans on earth for anything. Those stories are myths which were created by our ignorant and very superstitious ancestors who knew nothing about natural causes.

Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

That depends on the opposite. I suppose he created opposite charges in electrons and protons so atoms would hold together. Maybe he created white things and black things for the sake of contrast. Etc.

No supernatural being created anything at all. Good and evil are nothing but judgments made by humans. What is considered to be good by one might be considered to be very bad by another, yet they are both judging the very same thing which is neither good nor bad of itself but merely neutral.
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 9:01:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 8:24:48 AM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Skyangel, in my theology God is also a devil; it's God's job to maximize stress and destroy civilizations that don't promote mutual joy, happiness and stability in the world (this last one is VERY IMPORTANT).

God can be very destructive when he needs to be, in order to salvage the greater world.

One way we can reduce God's wrath and general unhappiness on the planet is by promoting goodness and peace in our world. We should also advocate personal responsibility and our obligation to protect the Earth for wildlife and for future generations. These last two are just as JUST AS IMPORTANT.

There's no need to force God to be a devil; he can be an angel if we just work with each other to promote the general welfare of human life on this planet; we should also respect other biological life and take only what we truly need.

In my theology God and the Devil are merely terms which describe opposite aspects of Life as judged by humans.
It is only humans who judge things as good or evil or as being of God or of the devil.
Life simply is what it is with all its positives as well as negatives. Those positives and negatives are again always a matter of human perception.

God is not some invisible supernatural character in the sky with a "job" That whole concept comes from our superstitious human ancestors. It is time we all grew up and left those childish superstitions behind regarding invisible supernatural beings who need to be appeased or else.
We have no need to reduce the wrath of any supernatural being because no such being exists or pours out any wrath in the form of natural disasters.
Natural disasters happen to believers and unbelievers . Nature treats all the same regardless of belief.

I agree with you that it is a human responsibility and obligation to promote goodness, and peace on earth and to protect all of life as much as we can.
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 9:11:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 11:14:32 AM, 12_13 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

God has created all, so obviously he has created also those who are evil. But I think evil is because God has been rejected and people have chosen not to obey God.

I think you are wrong. Your answer makes no sense to me and I will explain why...
Think about the story of the garden of Eden which contained the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Did that tree containing good and evil exist before or after any human in the story disobeyed God?
If evil existed in the tree before humans disobeyed God and you think it exists because God has been rejected, please explain who or what rejected God before mankind disobeyed God in the story?

What do you think that tree is all about? What fruit does it produce? Does it produce two fruits, one being good and one being evil or one kind of fruit which is perceived as good by some humans and bad by others ?
Remember Eve in the story saw the fruit as something good and something to be desired to make one wise.
If is was a bad thing to eat, why did not look distasteful and unappealing to her?
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 9:16:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 1:15:11 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:22:25 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

The opposites are not created, they occur naturally, like if you pour oil into water they separate. Evil is not an entity, but entities can do evil, or good. That good or evil then effects the environment, thus creating evil or good.

Another point to make, here (in keeping with what Matt has posted), is that the difference between good/evil or tool/weapon is the intent of the wielder. Both good and evil are (must be) a conscious choice. Since I reject the bible, I also reject the proposition that gawd created evil. Conscious choice is the determinant factor for every good, evil, and 'other' act/event. To assume that a passage was actually referring to willfully creating that which the author's gawd purportedly detests...

I agree motives and intent play an important part in determining whether an action is good or evil. They are indeed choices and also judgments made by humans.
It is nothing but human perception which creates good or evil in their own mind and judgments.
Idealist
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5/22/2014 9:21:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 9:01:23 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/21/2014 8:24:48 AM, Juan_Pablo wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Skyangel, in my theology God is also a devil; it's God's job to maximize stress and destroy civilizations that don't promote mutual joy, happiness and stability in the world (this last one is VERY IMPORTANT).

God can be very destructive when he needs to be, in order to salvage the greater world.

One way we can reduce God's wrath and general unhappiness on the planet is by promoting goodness and peace in our world. We should also advocate personal responsibility and our obligation to protect the Earth for wildlife and for future generations. These last two are just as JUST AS IMPORTANT.

There's no need to force God to be a devil; he can be an angel if we just work with each other to promote the general welfare of human life on this planet; we should also respect other biological life and take only what we truly need.

In my theology God and the Devil are merely terms which describe opposite aspects of Life as judged by humans.
It is only humans who judge things as good or evil or as being of God or of the devil.
Life simply is what it is with all its positives as well as negatives. Those positives and negatives are again always a matter of human perception.

Of course they are. Why do you think that all religions teach that only humans have souls? Only a being with a soul would ever possess real morals, or recognize good from evil. This lies at the heart in the belief that humans are special creations.

God is not some invisible supernatural character in the sky with a "job" That whole concept comes from our superstitious human ancestors. It is time we all grew up and left those childish superstitions behind regarding invisible supernatural beings who need to be appeased or else.

I agree. But it does no good to abandon one extreme for another. The "truth," as it were, nearly always exists somewhere in the middle.

We have no need to reduce the wrath of any supernatural being because no such being exists or pours out any wrath in the form of natural disasters.
Natural disasters happen to believers and unbelievers . Nature treats all the same regardless of belief.

This in no way shows that a higher order doesn't exist, merely that it/he/she isn't so petty as to want to take away our free will through a show of force. I freely admit that I find it impossible to accept the notion of "some invisible supernatural character in the sky," as you put it, but neither can I look at the universe around me and all I know of it and accept that it simply popped into existence for no particular reason, spawned life accidentally, which led to advanced intelligence and consciousness, and did all this for no purpose or reason at all.

I agree with you that it is a human responsibility and obligation to promote goodness, and peace on earth and to protect all of life as much as we can.
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 9:27:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:35:47 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:28:13 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/20/2014 8:29:11 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/20/2014 7:39:09 PM, Skyangel wrote:
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

In the above scripture God admits to creating evil.
Why do you think ("God" /LIFE) creates evil and darkness if ("he"/it) does not want people to live in darkness or do anything evil.
Why do you think God (LIFE) creates opposites?

Opposites are necessary things. Yin and yang. If it weren't for cold we would never feel warm. If it weren't for the existence of pain we would never experience the comfort of not feeling it. If it weren't for hunger we would never enjoy a meal. If it weren't for wrong then there would be no right, there would just be "average."

I agree with all you say except there would be no "average" either because in order to have an average of anything you need to have extremes. Everything would simply be exactly what it is only without human judgments upon it.

So when a star ingests and incinerates an entire planet that is just a human judgement? The planet isn't really affected by the extreme heat?

What has that got to with the subject in hand? We are not talking about what stars injest. We are talking about the concepts of good and evil.
A star injesting a planet is a human observation. Whether the observer thinks it is a good or a bad thing is a human judgment.
All things are what they are. The universe does what it is does. It (the universe, nature, natural phenomenon) is neutral and does not care about what humans think is good or evil. It is nothing but human judgement which labels things as good or bad.
Skyangel
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5/22/2014 9:31:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:43:22 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:38:32 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 5/20/2014 9:15:28 PM, Idealist wrote:

Oh, okay. I think I see where you are coming from now. All I was saying is that every coin has a "heads" and a "tails." There are no one-sided coins, so to speak. :)

I agree that there are no one sided coins and that principle applies to all of life. Opposite sides always make up the whole picture.
I think people who see the character God in the bible as purely and only good and the devil character as purely and only evil, are a bit like the one sided coin. They are not whole.
It is as if they separating the darkness (devil/evil) and the light (God /good) into two different "coins" instead of understanding they need each other to make the whole "coin".

That is something we can totally agree on. Everything needs an opposite side to make a whole "coin."

Agreed 100%
Why then do you think humans tend to reject that which they perceive as evil?
Can you reject one side of a coin without also rejecting the whole coin?