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Why Am I Not A Prophet?

Fatihah
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5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?
Fatihah
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5/21/2014 2:48:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Response: There are scriptures that say that Jesus (sas) did that. So do you accept Jesus as a prophet, or must you see it directly?
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/21/2014 2:53:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:48:42 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Response: There are scriptures that say that Jesus (sas) did that. So do you accept Jesus as a prophet, or must you see it directly?

I set myself up for that one didn't I ?
Fatihah
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5/21/2014 2:59:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:53:32 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:48:42 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Response: There are scriptures that say that Jesus (sas) did that. So do you accept Jesus as a prophet, or must you see it directly?

I set myself up for that one didn't I ?

Response: I guess so.
mendel
Posts: 73
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5/21/2014 10:27:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

I'll quote to you Maimonides (Maimonides is a set of 14 books written in the 12th century where he takes the Talmud and puts all the laws in order of topics)

"Any prophet who arises and tells us that God has sent him does not have to [prove himself by] performing wonders like those performed by Moses, our teacher, or like the wonders of Elijah or Elisha, which altered the natural order.

Rather, the sign of [the truth of his prophecy] will be the fulfillment of his prediction of future events, as [implied by Deuteronomy 18:21]: "How shall we recognize that a prophecy was not spoken by God?..."

Therefore, if a person whose [progress] in the service of God makes him worthy of prophecy arises [and claims to be a prophet] - if he does not intend to add [to] or diminish [the Torah], but rather to serve God through the mitzvot of the Torah - we do not tell him: "Split the sea for us, revive the dead, or the like, and then we will believe in you." Instead, we tell him, "If you are a prophet, tell us what will happen in the future." He makes his statements, and we wait to see whether [his "prophecy"] comes to fruition or not.

Should even a minute particular of his "prophecy" not materialize, he is surely a false prophet. If his entire prophecy materializes, we should consider him a true [prophet].

Halacha 2
We should test him many times. If all of his statements prove true, he should be considered to be a true prophet, as [I Samuel 3:20] states concerning Samuel, "And all of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, knew that Samuel had been proven to be a prophet unto God."

Halacha 3
Behold, the diviners and sorcerers also predict the future. What differentiates between them and a prophet?

[Though] some of the prophecies made by diviners, sorcerers, and the like materialize, some do not [as implied by Isaiah 47:13]: "Let the stargazers, the astrologers, and the diviners of what will happen in the months, come and save you from what will come upon you." [Our Sages note that the verse states] "from what" rather than "from all that."

Also, it is possible that none of their predictions will come true and they will err completely, as [Isaiah 44:25] states: "He frustrates the omens of imposers and drives diviners mad."

In contrast, all the words of a prophet come true, as [II Kings 10:10] states: "God's word will not fall to the ground." Similarly, [Jeremiah 23:28] states: "'The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but he who [receives] My word shall speak words of truth. What is the chaff to the grain?' declares God." This implies that the words of sorcerers and dreamers are like chaff that has been mixed with some grain, while the word of God is like grain without any chaff at all.

Concerning this, the Torah promises that a prophet will relate the truth about those matters for which the soothsayers and diviners give false- predictions to the gentiles, so that [the Jews] will not need a sorcerer, a diviner, or the like, as [Deuteronomy 18:10, 14-15] states: "Among you, there shall not be found anyone who passes his son through fire, [a sorcerer, a diviner...] For these nations... [listen to diviners and sorcerers, God has not given you this lot. God will] set up a prophet from your midst."

We see from this that a prophet will arise for the sole purpose of telling us the future events which will transpire in the world, whether there will be plenty or famine, war or peace, and the like. He even will inform a particular individual regarding his needs. Hence, when Saul lost an object, he went to the prophet to discover where it was. These are the types of things that a prophet will say. He will not come to found a new faith or add or withdraw a mitzvah.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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5/21/2014 10:31:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 10:27:51 PM, mendel wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

I'll quote to you Maimonides (Maimonides is a set of 14 books written in the 12th century where he takes the Talmud and puts all the laws in order of topics)

"Any prophet who arises and tells us that God has sent him does not have to [prove himself by] performing wonders like those performed by Moses, our teacher, or like the wonders of Elijah or Elisha, which altered the natural order.

Rather, the sign of [the truth of his prophecy] will be the fulfillment of his prediction of future events, as [implied by Deuteronomy 18:21]: "How shall we recognize that a prophecy was not spoken by God?..."

Therefore, if a person whose [progress] in the service of God makes him worthy of prophecy arises [and claims to be a prophet] - if he does not intend to add [to] or diminish [the Torah], but rather to serve God through the mitzvot of the Torah - we do not tell him: "Split the sea for us, revive the dead, or the like, and then we will believe in you." Instead, we tell him, "If you are a prophet, tell us what will happen in the future." He makes his statements, and we wait to see whether [his "prophecy"] comes to fruition or not.

Should even a minute particular of his "prophecy" not materialize, he is surely a false prophet. If his entire prophecy materializes, we should consider him a true [prophet].

Halacha 2
We should test him many times. If all of his statements prove true, he should be considered to be a true prophet, as [I Samuel 3:20] states concerning Samuel, "And all of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, knew that Samuel had been proven to be a prophet unto God."

Halacha 3
Behold, the diviners and sorcerers also predict the future. What differentiates between them and a prophet?

[Though] some of the prophecies made by diviners, sorcerers, and the like materialize, some do not [as implied by Isaiah 47:13]: "Let the stargazers, the astrologers, and the diviners of what will happen in the months, come and save you from what will come upon you." [Our Sages note that the verse states] "from what" rather than "from all that."

Also, it is possible that none of their predictions will come true and they will err completely, as [Isaiah 44:25] states: "He frustrates the omens of imposers and drives diviners mad."

In contrast, all the words of a prophet come true, as [II Kings 10:10] states: "God's word will not fall to the ground." Similarly, [Jeremiah 23:28] states: "'The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but he who [receives] My word shall speak words of truth. What is the chaff to the grain?' declares God." This implies that the words of sorcerers and dreamers are like chaff that has been mixed with some grain, while the word of God is like grain without any chaff at all.

Concerning this, the Torah promises that a prophet will relate the truth about those matters for which the soothsayers and diviners give false- predictions to the gentiles, so that [the Jews] will not need a sorcerer, a diviner, or the like, as [Deuteronomy 18:10, 14-15] states: "Among you, there shall not be found anyone who passes his son through fire, [a sorcerer, a diviner...] For these nations... [listen to diviners and sorcerers, God has not given you this lot. God will] set up a prophet from your midst."

We see from this that a prophet will arise for the sole purpose of telling us the future events which will transpire in the world, whether there will be plenty or famine, war or peace, and the like. He even will inform a particular individual regarding his needs. Hence, when Saul lost an object, he went to the prophet to discover where it was. These are the types of things that a prophet will say. He will not come to found a new faith or add or withdraw a mitzvah.

Response: Interesting. So do you yourself have to live and witness the prophet, or can one rely on scripture that such a prophet has already come?
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
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5/22/2014 4:02:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

Depends how big a leap of faith their claims require. Here's a couple good quotes related to your question:
http://godlessblogger.com...
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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5/22/2014 4:29:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

He should only ask God to meet face to face with all humans. Why is it a problem. People can claim whatever they want to. There is no claim from any deity. All we see are human claims.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/22/2014 6:24:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

God has not had need of prophets in the sense most people understand the word, because everything we need to know now and for the future is already contained in his word, the Bible.

Of course the word Prophet originally meant simply a person who speaks for another, and in scriptural terms a true prophet is one who speaks for the true God, Jehovah. Under that definition I too am a prophet, though I certainly do not even try to foretell anything which is not covered in scripture. However anyone who u7ses scripture as it was designed to be used is, in the original meaning not the modern understanding, a prophet.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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5/22/2014 10:02:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 4:29:08 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

He should only ask God to meet face to face with all humans. Why is it a problem. People can claim whatever they want to. There is no claim from any deity. All we see are human claims.

Response: How would you know that it is God you are meeting if you were to see God face to face?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,740
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5/22/2014 10:06:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 6:24:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

God has not had need of prophets in the sense most people understand the word, because everything we need to know now and for the future is already contained in his word, the Bible.

Of course the word Prophet originally meant simply a person who speaks for another, and in scriptural terms a true prophet is one who speaks for the true God, Jehovah. Under that definition I too am a prophet, though I certainly do not even try to foretell anything which is not covered in scripture. However anyone who u7ses scripture as it was designed to be used is, in the original meaning not the modern understanding, a prophet.

Response: You seem to have a different definition of a prophet. By prophet, I am referring to someone who receives direct revelation from God. So why is only the Bible a revelation and not other scriptures?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/22/2014 10:29:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 10:06:10 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:24:36 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

God has not had need of prophets in the sense most people understand the word, because everything we need to know now and for the future is already contained in his word, the Bible.

Of course the word Prophet originally meant simply a person who speaks for another, and in scriptural terms a true prophet is one who speaks for the true God, Jehovah. Under that definition I too am a prophet, though I certainly do not even try to foretell anything which is not covered in scripture. However anyone who u7ses scripture as it was designed to be used is, in the original meaning not the modern understanding, a prophet.

Response: You seem to have a different definition of a prophet. By prophet, I am referring to someone who receives direct revelation from God. So why is only the Bible a revelation and not other scriptures?

There are a number of definitions of prophet. In my post I used two of the most common.

The bible was written by those who, eitehr had direct revelation from God or who were simply inspired to write accounts in their own words. either way it is inspired of God.

Why would God give us different scriptures? None are needed. The bible tells us all we need to know and more, there is nothing to be added to it, nor anything taken away. God does not waste his time giving different people different instructions since there is, and can only be, one truth.

The bible is it. Complete, Harmonious from beginning to end despite what some fools and opposers try to tell you.

It tells one story, from many different aspects, from Genesis to Revelation, starting with the basics and slowly releasing more and more detail. Even the appearance of the Messiah is first mentioned to Satan, in his guise of a serpent, in the Garden of Eden, and slowly developed as a theme throughout the scriptures.

No the Bible is God's word. Any other is inspired by the opposition to leads us away from God.
Fatihah
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5/22/2014 10:31:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 10:29:18 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


There are a number of definitions of prophet. In my post I used two of the most common.

The bible was written by those who, eitehr had direct revelation from God or who were simply inspired to write accounts in their own words. either way it is inspired of God.

Why would God give us different scriptures? None are needed. The bible tells us all we need to know and more, there is nothing to be added to it, nor anything taken away. God does not waste his time giving different people different instructions since there is, and can only be, one truth.

The bible is it. Complete, Harmonious from beginning to end despite what some fools and opposers try to tell you.

It tells one story, from many different aspects, from Genesis to Revelation, starting with the basics and slowly releasing more and more detail. Even the appearance of the Messiah is first mentioned to Satan, in his guise of a serpent, in the Garden of Eden, and slowly developed as a theme throughout the scriptures.

No the Bible is God's word. Any other is inspired by the opposition to leads us away from God.

Response: How do you know the Bible is God's word?
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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5/22/2014 10:31:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 10:02:33 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 4:29:08 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

He should only ask God to meet face to face with all humans. Why is it a problem. People can claim whatever they want to. There is no claim from any deity. All we see are human claims.

Response: How would you know that it is God you are meeting if you were to see God face to face?

I shall never meet God face to face, nor is there any need for to. My destiny, should I achieve it, is to have a part in that earthly paradise that Adam and Even enjoyed, as promised to the wrongdoer executed alongside Christ.

However I know the source of his teachings because the bible provides us a template against which to measure all teachings, including mine.
MadCornishBiker
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5/22/2014 10:55:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 10:31:32 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 10:29:18 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


There are a number of definitions of prophet. In my post I used two of the most common.

The bible was written by those who, eitehr had direct revelation from God or who were simply inspired to write accounts in their own words. either way it is inspired of God.

Why would God give us different scriptures? None are needed. The bible tells us all we need to know and more, there is nothing to be added to it, nor anything taken away. God does not waste his time giving different people different instructions since there is, and can only be, one truth.

The bible is it. Complete, Harmonious from beginning to end despite what some fools and opposers try to tell you.

It tells one story, from many different aspects, from Genesis to Revelation, starting with the basics and slowly releasing more and more detail. Even the appearance of the Messiah is first mentioned to Satan, in his guise of a serpent, in the Garden of Eden, and slowly developed as a theme throughout the scriptures.

No the Bible is God's word. Any other is inspired by the opposition to leads us away from God.

Response: How do you know the Bible is God's word?

Because of it's honesty, consistence and accuracy, not only historic but also prophetic, there are prophecies which those with the eyes to see can watch being fulfilled around us today, 1900 years after the writing of it was closed.

If you knew it well enough you would know it is God's word, so study it carefully, and prayerfully, and find out for yourself. Just be careful who you rely on as a guide. Trust no man, only God, question everyone and everything.
Fatihah
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5/22/2014 10:56:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 10:55:16 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Because of it's honesty, consistence and accuracy, not only historic but also prophetic, there are prophecies which those with the eyes to see can watch being fulfilled around us today, 1900 years after the writing of it was closed.

If you knew it well enough you would know it is God's word, so study it carefully, and prayerfully, and find out for yourself. Just be careful who you rely on as a guide. Trust no man, only God, question everyone and everything.

Response: So are you suggesting that there is no other book that is honest, consistent, and accurate?
mendel
Posts: 73
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5/22/2014 11:18:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 10:31:58 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/21/2014 10:27:51 PM, mendel wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

I'll quote to you Maimonides (Maimonides is a set of 14 books written in the 12th century where he takes the Talmud and puts all the laws in order of topics)

"Any prophet who arises and tells us that God has sent him does not have to [prove himself by] performing wonders like those performed by Moses, our teacher, or like the wonders of Elijah or Elisha, which altered the natural order.

Rather, the sign of [the truth of his prophecy] will be the fulfillment of his prediction of future events, as [implied by Deuteronomy 18:21]: "How shall we recognize that a prophecy was not spoken by God?..."

Therefore, if a person whose [progress] in the service of God makes him worthy of prophecy arises [and claims to be a prophet] - if he does not intend to add [to] or diminish [the Torah], but rather to serve God through the mitzvot of the Torah - we do not tell him: "Split the sea for us, revive the dead, or the like, and then we will believe in you." Instead, we tell him, "If you are a prophet, tell us what will happen in the future." He makes his statements, and we wait to see whether [his "prophecy"] comes to fruition or not.

Should even a minute particular of his "prophecy" not materialize, he is surely a false prophet. If his entire prophecy materializes, we should consider him a true [prophet].

Halacha 2
We should test him many times. If all of his statements prove true, he should be considered to be a true prophet, as [I Samuel 3:20] states concerning Samuel, "And all of Israel, from Dan to Beersheba, knew that Samuel had been proven to be a prophet unto God."

Halacha 3
Behold, the diviners and sorcerers also predict the future. What differentiates between them and a prophet?

[Though] some of the prophecies made by diviners, sorcerers, and the like materialize, some do not [as implied by Isaiah 47:13]: "Let the stargazers, the astrologers, and the diviners of what will happen in the months, come and save you from what will come upon you." [Our Sages note that the verse states] "from what" rather than "from all that."

Also, it is possible that none of their predictions will come true and they will err completely, as [Isaiah 44:25] states: "He frustrates the omens of imposers and drives diviners mad."

In contrast, all the words of a prophet come true, as [II Kings 10:10] states: "God's word will not fall to the ground." Similarly, [Jeremiah 23:28] states: "'The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but he who [receives] My word shall speak words of truth. What is the chaff to the grain?' declares God." This implies that the words of sorcerers and dreamers are like chaff that has been mixed with some grain, while the word of God is like grain without any chaff at all.

Concerning this, the Torah promises that a prophet will relate the truth about those matters for which the soothsayers and diviners give false- predictions to the gentiles, so that [the Jews] will not need a sorcerer, a diviner, or the like, as [Deuteronomy 18:10, 14-15] states: "Among you, there shall not be found anyone who passes his son through fire, [a sorcerer, a diviner...] For these nations... [listen to diviners and sorcerers, God has not given you this lot. God will] set up a prophet from your midst."

We see from this that a prophet will arise for the sole purpose of telling us the future events which will transpire in the world, whether there will be plenty or famine, war or peace, and the like. He even will inform a particular individual regarding his needs. Hence, when Saul lost an object, he went to the prophet to discover where it was. These are the types of things that a prophet will say. He will not come to found a new faith or add or withdraw a mitzvah.

Response: Interesting. So do you yourself have to live and witness the prophet, or can one rely on scripture that such a prophet has already come?

Being that the bible itself asks the question, how do you know that it's really a message from g-d. The only assumption one has to make to believe in the prophets, is that the Jews believed in the bible, and followed it's traditions. Meaning that they followed the procedure for the authenticity of a prophet. (parenthetically this is one of the major reasons why the Jewish people have always rejected the "prophets" from the other nations because they don't know what kind of procedure is being followed to consider that individual a prophet of g-d).
MadCornishBiker
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5/22/2014 11:53:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 10:56:44 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 10:55:16 AM, MadCornishBiker wrote:


Because of it's honesty, consistence and accuracy, not only historic but also prophetic, there are prophecies which those with the eyes to see can watch being fulfilled around us today, 1900 years after the writing of it was closed.

If you knew it well enough you would know it is God's word, so study it carefully, and prayerfully, and find out for yourself. Just be careful who you rely on as a guide. Trust no man, only God, question everyone and everything.

Response: So are you suggesting that there is no other book that is honest, consistent, and accurate?

No other holy book, no, and even where many have started out with the intention of being all three, none I have ever seen has achieved all three, especially the accurate bit.

The problem with the honesty bit is that to be truly honest with others one first has to be honest with oneself, and until one has admitted the possibility of Satanic influence one is not being truly honest with oneself.

One cannot understand the honesty of scripture without understanding the problem of Satanic influence that it spends so much time warning us against, for instance:

2 Corinthians 11:12-15
12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, in order to eliminate the pretext of those who are wanting a basis for being found equal to us in the things about which they boast. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works.

Another mark of the honesty of scripture is that it doesn't hide the mistakes, even those made by Jesus and the Apostles.

After all Jesus said that he would be resurrected in "three days and three nights" and yet he was resurrected after only parts of three days. A mistake. He also implied that it would be his physical body that was resurrected and yet scripture plainly tells us that it was not only a body that none of his close associates recognised on sight, but a spirit body which he could materialise at will even in the middle of as crowd in a locked room, and change at will to include the marks of his execution.

Would not you expect a holy book to make it's primary prophet and the son of it's God in a human form on earth appear to be infallible?

And yet scripture does not do so, in it's extreme honesty. Where he doesn't know things it tells us that he doesn't know. Where he makes errors it does not hide them.

The same goes for it's prophets and Apostles.

Incidentally, why are the APostles not called prophets in scripture?

Simply because they did not issue any new prophecies, everything they foretold had already been foretold either by Christ or the earlier prophets before them.

Is that not a book whose honesty you can admire?
tahir.imanov
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5/22/2014 11:53:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Walking on water, or feeding 1000 people are empirical "miracles" and they can be doubted.

I would rather deal with rational evidence.
This is red.
matt.mcguire88
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5/22/2014 11:56:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:53:41 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Walking on water, or feeding 1000 people are empirical "miracles" and they can be doubted.

I would rather deal with rational evidence.

I was being a wise guy, I gotta stop doing that I don't think people can tell lol.
tahir.imanov
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5/22/2014 12:08:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:56:21 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:53:41 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Walking on water, or feeding 1000 people are empirical "miracles" and they can be doubted.

I would rather deal with rational evidence.

I was being a wise guy, I gotta stop doing that I don't think people can tell lol.

You can't pretend to be what you are not. If you do, truth eventually will come out.
This is red.
matt.mcguire88
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5/22/2014 12:19:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:08:57 PM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:56:21 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:53:41 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Walking on water, or feeding 1000 people are empirical "miracles" and they can be doubted.

I would rather deal with rational evidence.

I was being a wise guy, I gotta stop doing that I don't think people can tell lol.

You can't pretend to be what you are not. If you do, truth eventually will come out.

Yeah that didn't really follow. It means I was kidding, maybe you're unfamiliar with that concept?
debateuser
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5/22/2014 12:33:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 10:02:33 AM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 4:29:08 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:42:24 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Of all of the religions of the world, most of them, if not all, teach us that a Supreme Being has sent guidance, inspiration and signs to certain people to teach human kind about not only who the Supreme being is, but the origin and purpose of the Supreme Being's creation, that being the universe, life itself, and all that exists. These people are called prophets. So naturally, when a person wants to prove their religion as true, they refer to the prophet of their religion for the proof.

Yet today, if one does actually refer to a prophet as proof, the nonbeliever rejects such proof and says that they have no proof at all. So it occured to me, that if the nonbeliever does accept the proof of the prophets, then they would naturally accept their teaching. So I'm asking the question, of those who don't believe in religion or choose one religion over the others, what exactly must a prophet do to convince you that their prophethood is in fact true?

He should only ask God to meet face to face with all humans. Why is it a problem. People can claim whatever they want to. There is no claim from any deity. All we see are human claims.

Response: How would you know that it is God you are meeting if you were to see God face to face?

If millions of people meet a God face to face, only then it can be considered a claim. If a God can not prove to man even after meeting him face to face, then he can not be called God.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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Fatihah
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5/22/2014 12:57:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:33:06 PM, debateuser wrote:


If millions of people meet a God face to face, only then it can be considered a claim. If a God can not prove to man even after meeting him face to face, then he can not be called God.

Response: Why should God reveal Himself as proof when you accept other things as true without seeing them?
MadCornishBiker
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5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:53:41 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Walking on water, or feeding 1000 people are empirical "miracles" and they can be doubted.

I would rather deal with rational evidence.

It's all you can rely on. miracles can come from God or from Satan, and are much more likely to come from Satan in this time of the end.

God has no real use for miracles. Read the bi9ble and ask yourself why the Israelites seemed so willing to forget the miracles they witnessed so often.

Rational evidence is much more reliable hence I rely on it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,237
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5/22/2014 1:06:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:53:41 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Walking on water, or feeding 1000 people are empirical "miracles" and they can be doubted.

I would rather deal with rational evidence.

It's all you can rely on. miracles can come from God or from Satan, and are much more likely to come from Satan in this time of the end.

God has no real use for miracles. Read the bi9ble and ask yourself why the Israelites seemed so willing to forget the miracles they witnessed so often.

Rational evidence is much more reliable hence I rely on it.

Idiot.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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5/22/2014 1:11:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:57:27 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:33:06 PM, debateuser wrote:


If millions of people meet a God face to face, only then it can be considered a claim. If a God can not prove to man even after meeting him face to face, then he can not be called God.

Response: Why should God reveal Himself as proof when you accept other things as true without seeing them?

If someone has to follow a religion, change his lifestyle; then it is a legitimate demand.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
tahir.imanov
Posts: 272
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5/22/2014 1:20:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, MadCornishBiker wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:53:41 AM, tahir.imanov wrote:
At 5/21/2014 2:46:37 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Walk on water....that might do it

Walking on water, or feeding 1000 people are empirical "miracles" and they can be doubted.

I would rather deal with rational evidence.

It's all you can rely on. miracles can come from God or from Satan, and are much more likely to come from Satan in this time of the end.

God has no real use for miracles. Read the bi9ble and ask yourself why the Israelites seemed so willing to forget the miracles they witnessed so often.

Rational evidence is much more reliable hence I rely on it.

Well, actually people (including you) rely on testimony more than rational or empirical evidence. You rely on Bible (I assume you are Christian) not based on rational or empirical evidence (hence story of Noah empirically and rationally impossible) but purely unverified testimony which has no basis.

Point is you are fulfilling your epistemological duty.
This is red.
tahir.imanov
Posts: 272
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5/22/2014 1:22:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I meant to say you are not fulfilling your epistemological duty. May be Holy Spirit stroked me. :)
This is red.