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Christian Rock Music

nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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2/11/2010 2:31:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I have always thought that Christian rock music is a fine way to worship God. The real thing that matters is your intention and the state of your heart while doing it, right?

Well, I recently came across this: "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." John 4:24

The idea of the only important thing being that your intention is to praise God with the music (either by playing it or listening to it) resonates well with worshiping God in spirit. BUT, as John 4:24 tells us, this isn't the ONLY important thing. We must also worship God in truth, implying that there is a correct and incorrect way to worship our Holy God. Therefore, more 'conservative' Christians say that because rock music is so closely associated with the selfish and sinful nature of this world (drugs, sex, and rock and roll, the unholy trinity of sorts), rock music is not a method we should implement into our worship.

I have always heard that more conservative Christians (usually older people like my grandparents who think that all rock music is devil worship) think that Christian rock is inappropriate, but I never really understood why. I thought it was just old people being stubborn because Christian rock is new to them. It appears as though there may actually be some scriptural basis for Christian rock being inappropriate for worship though.

As of now, I am 100% on the fence on this one. Any thoughts? Just looking for some helpful discussion.

p.s. Check out this Christian rock band called Third From First from my high school. I graduated with some of them and they are getting moderately big time (in the Pittsburgh suburbs that is).
http://www.thirdfromfirst.com...
http://www.myspace.com...
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
TheSkeptic
Posts: 1,362
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2/11/2010 2:57:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Underoath!

The only problem I can see for the Christian is that many rock songs, especially metal, often focus on the timbre rather than the lyrics - which may end up diverting the concentration of those during the praise. I often don't understand the lyrics of metal songs unless I look it up, but I just love how the song sounds so I don't care. That would be problematic when you're in praise, though.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/11/2010 3:18:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I honestly don't understand why people think God cares what style of music you use to worship him. He just wants to be worshipped no matter how you do it.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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2/11/2010 3:21:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 3:18:44 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I honestly don't understand why people think God cares what style of music you use to worship him. He just wants to be worshipped no matter how you do it.

Or at least I'd assume so. (No one can claim to know what God wants.)
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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2/11/2010 3:23:10 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 2:57:24 PM, TheSkeptic wrote:
Underoath!

Woooo!

I used to be into Christian rock music, mostly of the Underoath-TFK variety, though I've slipped away in recent times. I think it is an excellent way to praise - even if I don't listen to it for that purpose.

I remember at the Pentecostal church I hung around all the rock concerts they held, sometimes with local Christian bands, other times with just the guys that were apart of the youth group. People loved it - its a great way to actively engage the youngins'. Gets them active, soppy, and beats their brain into a pulp so they can accept any and all messages - but so damn fun.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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2/11/2010 3:46:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'll be honest and say that a lot of the christian rock that I listen to you wouldn't really know that it was christian just by listening to most of it. Examples of this are your bands like:

Mainstream Skillet
As I Lay Dying
Devil Wears Prada
Demon Hunter
Underoath
and mainstream Red
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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2/11/2010 3:48:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 3:46:32 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'll be honest and say that a lot of the christian rock that I listen to you wouldn't really know that it was christian just by listening to most of it. Examples of this are your bands like:

As I Lay Dying

They're a Christian rock band? I never knew!
Alex
Posts: 2,058
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2/11/2010 3:52:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Me being a lover of all GOOD music, from screamo to country, I don't have a problem with any form of worship. If you don't wanna worship with rock music then that is your choice, but should it really matter how SOMEONE ELSE worships him?
Why kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong?
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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2/11/2010 4:33:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
As my campus pastor put it, "Sometimes you can't tell if they're singing about God or their girlfriend." Lol. But true, for bands like Skillet (whom I really like).
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/11/2010 6:16:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Althoigh I'm not a christian I find alot of christian rock to be quite good. I have even been to a few christian rock concerts with friends.
MikeLoviN
Posts: 746
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2/11/2010 6:36:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm going to throw Thrice out there again. Although they're not officially 'Christian rock' a lot of their songs have very Christian undertones if you actually look at the lyrics. The lead singer also has a solo project that I really like which again is tough to classify entirely as 'Christian' music but here's an example of what I'm talking about.

The song 'Please Come Home' about a modern day prodigal son... plus a few others
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/11/2010 8:14:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 3:48:15 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 2/11/2010 3:46:32 PM, Korashk wrote:
I'll be honest and say that a lot of the christian rock that I listen to you wouldn't really know that it was christian just by listening to most of it. Examples of this are your bands like:

As I Lay Dying

They're a Christian rock band? I never knew!

Me either!

Anyway, I don't know a lot of Christian rock bands, but all the ones I do know just happen to suck. I guess it's a coincidence.
President of DDO
Vi_Veri
Posts: 4,487
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2/11/2010 8:20:20 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I like Skillet. They are pretty good. Started listening to them about 2 years ago.
I could give a f about no haters as long as my ishes love me.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
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2/11/2010 8:41:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I don't think there is anything wrong with Christian rock as a form of worship. It is replacing "evil' with "God". Christians have been doing this for a couple thousand years now. Christmas is one for example. I'm very conservative and I think Christian Rock is cool, I don't like it personally but by no means do I think it outside worshipping in truth and spirit. I've always thought that verse was more about not faking it, worship that is, then how we do it. How you worship doesn't really matter(please don't get technical about this statement, you know what I mean) it's a much more personal thing. Skillet? I've heard, don't understand nothing. So I don't like it, but that is just me. I would rather my son listen to skillet then slipknot any day.

Now I do like this, I don't know if it's considered rock but I still like it. Great music and lyrics.

I forgot how to put youtube vids on here, anyone?
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/11/2010 10:38:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 8:41:19 PM, jharry wrote:

I forgot how to put youtube vids on here, anyone?

Just copy/paste the link and then it'll show up when you post.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/11/2010 11:23:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 2:31:50 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
The Bible says to worship in truth. So maybe I can't worship with rock?

Missing premise: Rock is lies.

Now, granted, I'm unequivocally anti-Christian, but until that missing premise is justified I'm pretty sure if Christianity were valid there would be no problem listening to Christian rock. Hell, some of it is even good for non-Christians. See: Black Sabbath.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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2/12/2010 4:48:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Psalm 100 (kjv): "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord... come before his presence with singing."

Anyone interested in Christian hip hop, Shai Linne is pretty dope.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/12/2010 6:49:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 11:23:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:

Now, granted, I'm unequivocally anti-Christian, but until that missing premise is justified I'm pretty sure if Christianity were valid there would be no problem listening to Christian rock. Hell, some of it is even good for non-Christians. See: Black Sabbath.

Yeah I always found it funny that Christians got uppity about Black Sabbath as "devil music", when they really onlyhave christian messages when they touch on religion.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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2/12/2010 7:53:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 8:41:19 PM, jharry wrote:
I don't think there is anything wrong with Christian rock as a form of worship. It is replacing "evil' with "God". Christians have been doing this for a couple thousand years now. Christmas is one for example.

I completely agree with this and for a long time that was all the more thought I put into it. Christian rock is taking what the world has and putting a spin on it that can possibly draw people to God. Nobody remembers that December 25th used to be a pagan holiday anymore.

I'm very conservative and I think Christian Rock is cool, I don't like it personally but by no means do I think it outside worshipping in truth and spirit. I've always thought that verse was more about not faking it, worship that is, then how we do it. How you worship doesn't really matter(please don't get technical about this statement, you know what I mean) it's a much more personal thing.

I'm not calling you out but this is a good example to use. The "not faking it part" is about having your heart in the right place (worshipping in spirit) rather than just going through the motions. Although the "how you do it" part is commonly considered a personal choice, should it be? Worhipping in truth implies that there is a correct and incorrect way to worship God and that it's about more than just how YOU feel comfortable worshipping. That's what I was trying to get at. Any thoughts on if it's not appropriate even if you enjoy it?

I will try later to provide some verses that might apply this kind of thing. Got to go to class now.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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2/12/2010 8:34:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I dont have any old people where I live object to it as 'evil' or anything like that. But some of them do admit they feel out of place listing to it. they could be in a church that uses christian rock in there woship service and recognize that the people there are truely worshiping with it, but they themselves cannot and wonder what it is they are missing that causes their difficulty with doing so. So christian rock cant be used as worship by everybody.

I can use it though, decemberradio is a favorite of mine.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
I-am-a-panda
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2/12/2010 10:13:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Megadeth, since the Lead man became a Born Again Christian, has written some 'Christian' metal.

Despite, the god-awful graphics, the lyrics hold true to the message http://www.darklyrics.com...
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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2/12/2010 11:11:55 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/11/2010 11:23:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/11/2010 2:31:50 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
The Bible says to worship in truth. So maybe I can't worship with rock?

Missing premise: Rock is lies.

Now, granted, I'm unequivocally anti-Christian, but until that missing premise is justified I'm pretty sure if Christianity were valid there would be no problem listening to Christian rock. Hell, some of it is even good for non-Christians. See: Black Sabbath.

Rock music doesn't have be lies in order for it to not qualify as "worshiping in truth." "Worshiping in truth" essentially means worshiping the right way, to my understanding. For example, praising God while running naked in public in the middle of the day is probably not the right way to worship.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/12/2010 11:23:41 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/12/2010 11:11:55 AM, nickthengineer wrote:
At 2/11/2010 11:23:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 2/11/2010 2:31:50 PM, nickthengineer wrote:
The Bible says to worship in truth. So maybe I can't worship with rock?

Missing premise: Rock is lies.

Now, granted, I'm unequivocally anti-Christian, but until that missing premise is justified I'm pretty sure if Christianity were valid there would be no problem listening to Christian rock. Hell, some of it is even good for non-Christians. See: Black Sabbath.

Rock music doesn't have be lies in order for it to not qualify as "worshiping in truth." "Worshiping in truth" essentially means worshiping the right way, to my understanding.
The "you must worship" already covers that-- and says that the right way is-- truthfully.

For example, praising God while running naked in public in the middle of the day is probably not the right way to worship.
That's because the Bible says something specific about it-- Genesis 3:7-11 states that the moment they acquired knowledge of right and wrong they knew it would be shameful not to cover themselves. The only way to believe such a thing to be "true Christian worship"-- is not to have read it. And not reading so much as that far into the Bible contradicts worshipping the Christian God "in truth."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/12/2010 11:24:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Now, if the Bible says "Thou shalt not corrupt our boring religion with catchy tunes..."
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
nickthengineer
Posts: 251
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2/12/2010 11:31:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Okay here is the point that no one has really addressed yet.

Colossians 3:16: Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

From this we draw that music:
1. should be used to teach.
2. should be used to admonish (to advise or counsel).
3. should be sung (or played) with grace in your heart (in thankfulness).

So basically:
1. If music is to teach, its teachings should be true to Scripture.
2. If music is to counsel us (in areas we need counseling, such as forgiveness, love, avoiding worldliness, etc.), is it consistent to use the world's rock music (closely associate with drugs and sex and partying, at least to some degree) to worship God?

Worshiping in truth seems to include being true to Scripture but perhaps also making sure not to look so much like the world that no one can tell the difference. So maybe there is a line to draw here. If anyone listened to the Third From First music (http://www.thirdfromfirst.com... media tab), you will notice that their music is very obvious at always speaking of God and communicating Scriptural teachings. A few of their songs even includes a brief reading of a Bible verse.

On the other side of the spectrum would be bands like Skillet, whose closest reference to God in their music is when they say "You" because they never actually say God or Christ. If I told you the lead singer was singing about his wife you probably wouldn't be able to tell me otherwise just from listening to it (most of it). It's like it's only Christian rock because they say it is. Bible-inspired music is more accurate.

Sooooo, any new thoughts? I'm still on the fence.
I evolved from stupid. (http://www.debate.org...)