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If god knows and still creates.

bulproof
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5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
Brendan21
Posts: 294
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5/22/2014 11:33:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

But then whats the point? God damns someone before/as soon as they exist, but he's suppose to love all his creations etc. and the purpose for every human is to find and accept his love and then live in his grace for eternity in the afterlife.
philochristos
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5/22/2014 11:50:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:33:14 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

But then whats the point?

There are lots of purposes a person might have even if they eventually go to hell. We are all part of a causal web, so we are all inter-related. Some people who live today and who will eventually go to heaven would never have been born if other people hadn't existed in the past who are going to hell. For example, maybe I'm going to heaven, but maybe my parents are going to hell. I would not have existed if not for my parents.

Some people make extraordinary contributions to the world, but they might not have ever existed unless some ancestor of theirs had existed who is going to hell. So there's another purpose a person might have even if they're going to hell.

Some people who go to hell make significant contributions to the world anyway. Nikola Tesla, for example, was not a Christian, but he gave us the induction motor, AC, and flourescent lighting, all of which have enhanced life on earth.

So there are plenty of purposes God might have for people even if those people are going to hell eventually.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/22/2014 11:53:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

Huge FAIL.
The god that creates knows ALL.
There is no time for god allegedly.
He just knows.
Past................Present.....................Future.

If an ALL KNOWING god knows that HIS creation will be TORTURED for eternity and still creates it then HE creates it for that purpose.
That creation had no choice, if that god is all knowing.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/22/2014 11:59:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:53:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

Huge FAIL.
The god that creates knows ALL.
There is no time for god allegedly.
He just knows.
Past................Present.....................Future.

If an ALL KNOWING god knows that HIS creation will be TORTURED for eternity and still creates it then HE creates it for that purpose.
That creation had no choice, if that god is all knowing.

Huge FAIL. Your objection is unreponsive to my argument. You're just repeating your initial non-sequitur.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/22/2014 12:08:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:50:29 AM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:33:14 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

But then whats the point?

There are lots of purposes a person might have even if they eventually go to hell.
So what? God still created them for eternal torture. Wait, I think god says he is LOVE...funny.
We are all part of a causal web,
Not according to your beliefs.
The CAUSE is your god. Why do you people try so pathetically to defend an omnipotent god. Can't he defend himself?
so we are all inter-related. Some people who live today and who will eventually go to heaven would never have been born if other people hadn't existed in the past who are going to hell. For example, maybe I'm going to heaven, but maybe my parents are going to hell. I would not have existed if not for my parents.
And how happy would YOU be if you were in heaven and your parents were screaming in agony in hell?
Since in heaven you would be happy beyond compare. Tell me just how happy you could be with that knowledge for eternity?
Some people make extraordinary contributions to the world, but they might not have ever existed unless some ancestor of theirs had existed who is going to hell. So there's another purpose a person might have even if they're going to hell.
Yes, a person like Mother Theresa can go to hell because she never had god or jesus talk to her.
Some people who go to hell make significant contributions to the world anyway. Nikola Tesla, for example, was not a Christian, but he gave us the induction motor, AC, and flourescent lighting, all of which have enhanced life on earth.
Why do you and your god sentence Tesla to hell? If Hitler repented upon his deathbed would he be in hell?
So there are plenty of purposes God might have for people even if those people are going to hell eventually.
No ! There is only ONE purpose for your god creating them.
To warm his hands over their eternal torture.
Try to get a grip on the religion that has the greatest grip on you.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/22/2014 12:12:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:59:49 AM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:53:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

Huge FAIL.
The god that creates knows ALL.
There is no time for god allegedly.
He just knows.
Past................Present.....................Future.

If an ALL KNOWING god knows that HIS creation will be TORTURED for eternity and still creates it then HE creates it for that purpose.
That creation had no choice, if that god is all knowing.

Huge FAIL. Your objection is unreponsive to my argument. You're just repeating your initial non-sequitur.

Oh I see, he would create them to do something for him and once they had done that he would send them to hell.

Is that your justification for his evil?
Well done.
I think as a witness for the defense, you just got your god executed.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
v3nesl
Posts: 4,460
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5/22/2014 12:15:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:30:40 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Siiiiggghh.....

lol :-)
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/22/2014 12:20:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
And the purpose is irrelevant for an omniscient ALL LOVING creator.
The result should be the determining factor for an ALL LOVING CREATOR.
If an ALL LOVING CREATOR creates his creation with the full knowledge that his creation will be tortured for eternity by the ALL LOVING CREATOR then he doesn't and never has understood LOVE.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/22/2014 12:21:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:15:15 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:30:40 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Siiiiggghh.....

lol :-)
Apparently there are hospitals offering brain transplants now, have you heard?
They'll pay a fair bit for an unused one like yours.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/22/2014 12:24:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:08:03 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:50:29 AM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:33:14 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

But then whats the point?

There are lots of purposes a person might have even if they eventually go to hell.
So what?

So that refutes your claim that "If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell."

God still created them for eternal torture.

Non sequitur.

We are all part of a causal web,
Not according to your beliefs.

Yes, according to my beliefs.

The CAUSE is your god. Why do you people try so pathetically to defend an omnipotent god. Can't he defend himself?

Sophistry.

so we are all inter-related. Some people who live today and who will eventually go to heaven would never have been born if other people hadn't existed in the past who are going to hell. For example, maybe I'm going to heaven, but maybe my parents are going to hell. I would not have existed if not for my parents.
And how happy would YOU be if you were in heaven and your parents were screaming in agony in hell?

What does my happiness have to do with anything? More sophistry?

Since in heaven you would be happy beyond compare. Tell me just how happy you could be with that knowledge for eternity?

Tell me how that's relevant to this thread.

Some people make extraordinary contributions to the world, but they might not have ever existed unless some ancestor of theirs had existed who is going to hell. So there's another purpose a person might have even if they're going to hell.
Yes, a person like Mother Theresa can go to hell because she never had god or jesus talk to her.

Wha?

Some people who go to hell make significant contributions to the world anyway. Nikola Tesla, for example, was not a Christian, but he gave us the induction motor, AC, and flourescent lighting, all of which have enhanced life on earth.
Why do you and your god sentence Tesla to hell?

I didn't sentence Tesla to hell. I assume God sentenced Tesla to hell for his sin. Tesla never accepted the gift of salvation offered through Christ's sacrifice.

If Hitler repented upon his deathbed would he be in hell?

Not if his repentance was sincere.

So there are plenty of purposes God might have for people even if those people are going to hell eventually.
No ! There is only ONE purpose for your god creating them.

Wait a minute. Earlier when I pointed out other purposes people might have, you asked, "So what?" as if to concede my point. Anyway, it's still a non-sequitur to conclude that since God knows people will go to hell when he creates them, that going to hell was his only purpose in creating them. After all, God knows everything that will happen to a person when he creates them. Wouldn't it follow by your reasoning that everything that happens to a purpose was part of God's purpose, in which case God has many purposes for a person when he creates them, and not just one?
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/22/2014 12:25:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:12:46 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:59:49 AM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:53:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

Huge FAIL.
The god that creates knows ALL.
There is no time for god allegedly.
He just knows.
Past................Present.....................Future.

If an ALL KNOWING god knows that HIS creation will be TORTURED for eternity and still creates it then HE creates it for that purpose.
That creation had no choice, if that god is all knowing.

Huge FAIL. Your objection is unreponsive to my argument. You're just repeating your initial non-sequitur.

Oh I see, he would create them to do something for him and once they had done that he would send them to hell.

Is that your justification for his evil?

I'm not trying to justify hell at all. Stay focused. You started this thread to show that if God knows a person will go to hell when he creates them, then that was his sole purpose in creating them. I have simply been trying to show that your conclusion does not follow from your premises.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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5/22/2014 12:33:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:50:29 AM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:33:14 AM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

But then whats the point?

There are lots of purposes a person might have even if they eventually go to hell. We are all part of a causal web, so we are all inter-related. Some people who live today and who will eventually go to heaven would never have been born if other people hadn't existed in the past who are going to hell. For example, maybe I'm going to heaven, but maybe my parents are going to hell. I would not have existed if not for my parents.

Some people make extraordinary contributions to the world, but they might not have ever existed unless some ancestor of theirs had existed who is going to hell. So there's another purpose a person might have even if they're going to hell.

Some people who go to hell make significant contributions to the world anyway. Nikola Tesla, for example, was not a Christian, but he gave us the induction motor, AC, and flourescent lighting, all of which have enhanced life on earth.

So there are plenty of purposes God might have for people even if those people are going to hell eventually.

I can't believe I just read what I read.
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/22/2014 12:37:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:24:00 PM, philochristos wrote:

Wait a minute. Earlier when I pointed out other purposes people might have, you asked, "So what?" as if to concede my point.

You've just gotta love the dishonesty of the believers, well I do.
Look at this dishonest quotemine. I mean just how stupidly dishonest can a godbotherer get?
Here is the lying christian quoting me.
So what?
And here is the actual quote.
So what? God still created them for eternal torture. Wait, I think god says he is LOVE...funny.

The godbotherers will use any subterfuge, obfuscation, equivocation and dishonesty to make there case that they can.

Well done LIAR
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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5/22/2014 12:41:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:37:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:24:00 PM, philochristos wrote:

Wait a minute. Earlier when I pointed out other purposes people might have, you asked, "So what?" as if to concede my point.

You've just gotta love the dishonesty of the believers, well I do.
Look at this dishonest quotemine. I mean just how stupidly dishonest can a godbotherer get?
Here is the lying christian quoting me.
So what?
And here is the actual quote.
So what? God still created them for eternal torture. Wait, I think god says he is LOVE...funny.

The godbotherers will use any subterfuge, obfuscation, equivocation and dishonesty to make there case that they can.

Well done LIAR

Bulproof, I think I've been polite and civil in debunking your argument, but you progressively get nastier as this conversation goes on. I think I'll just leave you to your devices now.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/22/2014 12:55:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:41:37 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:37:48 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:24:00 PM, philochristos wrote:

Wait a minute. Earlier when I pointed out other purposes people might have, you asked, "So what?" as if to concede my point.

You've just gotta love the dishonesty of the believers, well I do.
Look at this dishonest quotemine. I mean just how stupidly dishonest can a godbotherer get?
Here is the lying christian quoting me.
So what?
And here is the actual quote.
So what? God still created them for eternal torture. Wait, I think god says he is LOVE...funny.

The godbotherers will use any subterfuge, obfuscation, equivocation and dishonesty to make there case that they can.

Well done LIAR

Bulproof, I think I've been polite and civil in debunking your argument, but you progressively get nastier as this conversation goes on. I think I'll just leave you to your devices now.

If you think that lying about what my argument is is being polite, then I think you should withdraw from the field in disgrace.
Here's a white feather for you.
LIAR.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
EnlightenedMadman
Posts: 44
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5/23/2014 12:57:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

You seem to hold an extremely common misconception of what omniscience means.

Omniscient means "to know everything"; or in other words, everything that can be known and is to know. Omniscience means all the knowledge that is, not all the knowledge that isn't. The future, as far as we're concerned, does not exist, so it is logically impossible to know the future as there is yet nothing to know. He could make more advanced predictions than we could, but the future would still remain with virtually infinite variables. This is still consistent with God's omniscience because he still knows everything there is to possible know.

Simply put, even God wouldn't know for sure where we go when we die. That is why we have free will.
Check it out! Envisage and I debate Young Earth Creationism.
http://www.debate.org...
EnlightenedMadman
Posts: 44
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5/23/2014 1:00:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:53:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

Huge FAIL.
The god that creates knows ALL.
There is no time for god allegedly.
He just knows.
Past................Present.....................Future.

Time does not exist, at least not in the way we know it.
It is mostly a unit of measurement invented by man to keep track of the events in the world.

If an ALL KNOWING god knows that HIS creation will be TORTURED for eternity and still creates it then HE creates it for that purpose.
That creation had no choice, if that god is all knowing.
Check it out! Envisage and I debate Young Earth Creationism.
http://www.debate.org...
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/24/2014 6:30:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:00:41 AM, EnlightenedMadman wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:53:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:28:17 AM, philochristos wrote:
I don't think it follows that because God knows X will happen as a result of creation that X as the purpose of creation.

After all, car manufactorers know that if they create a car, that car will need to have its tires changed. But that doesn't mean they create the car for the purpose of having its tires changed.

Governments initiate war knowing ahead of time that there will be civilian casualties, but that doesn't mean civilian casualties was the purpose for the wars.

It could be that God knows some people will go to hell when he creates them even if going to hell was not the purpose for which he created them.

Huge FAIL.
The god that creates knows ALL.
There is no time for god allegedly.
He just knows.
Past................Present.....................Future.

Time does not exist, at least not in the way we know it.
It is mostly a unit of measurement invented by man to keep track of the events in the world.

If an ALL KNOWING god knows that HIS creation will be TORTURED for eternity and still creates it then HE creates it for that purpose.
That creation had no choice, if that god is all knowing.

Tell god that.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.
bulproof
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5/24/2014 7:07:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.

I love the little analogies that can convince people like you.
And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future.
It doesn't matter whether you know it or not.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/24/2014 7:10:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 7:07:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.

I love the little analogies that can convince people like you.
And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future.
It doesn't matter whether you know it or not.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE.
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/24/2014 7:13:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 7:10:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:07:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.

I love the little analogies that can convince people like you.
And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future.
It doesn't matter whether you know it or not.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE.
But your choice can make no difference to the result.
You have a meaningless choice.
Thankyou god
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/24/2014 7:18:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 7:13:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:10:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:07:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.

I love the little analogies that can convince people like you.
And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future.
It doesn't matter whether you know it or not.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE.
But your choice can make no difference to the result.

Your choice is your responsibility. Choosing one way or the other is progressing tot he result. living the result, confirming the result.

You have a meaningless choice.

Many see salvation as a very meaningful life choice.

Thankyou god

Amen

You still offer no rebuttal to hell-going people are for the benefit of the saved.

You can choose to serve god, repent, and come judgement day if it is sincere be going to heaven. You could make the difference today.
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/24/2014 7:25:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 7:18:28 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:13:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:10:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:07:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.

I love the little analogies that can convince people like you.
And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future.
It doesn't matter whether you know it or not.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE.
But your choice can make no difference to the result.

Your choice is your responsibility. Choosing one way or the other is progressing tot he result. living the result, confirming the result.

You have a meaningless choice.

Many see salvation as a very meaningful life choice.

Thankyou god

Amen

You still offer no rebuttal to hell-going people are for the benefit of the saved.

You can choose to serve god, repent, and come judgement day if it is sincere be going to heaven. You could make the difference today.
Even when god has seen you in hell for eternity?
An interesting theology.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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5/24/2014 7:28:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 7:25:27 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:18:28 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:13:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:10:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:07:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.

I love the little analogies that can convince people like you.
And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future.
It doesn't matter whether you know it or not.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE.
But your choice can make no difference to the result.

Your choice is your responsibility. Choosing one way or the other is progressing tot he result. living the result, confirming the result.

You have a meaningless choice.

Many see salvation as a very meaningful life choice.

Thankyou god

Amen

You still offer no rebuttal to hell-going people are for the benefit of the saved.

You can choose to serve god, repent, and come judgement day if it is sincere be going to heaven. You could make the difference today.
Even when god has seen you in hell for eternity?
An interesting theology.

How do you know he didn't see you in heaven?

So the power is in your choice because...

you could choose to be in heaven as God saw it.

OR..

You can choose to be in hell as God saw it.
bulproof
Posts: 25,171
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5/24/2014 7:37:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 7:28:18 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:25:27 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:18:28 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:13:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:10:14 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/24/2014 7:07:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/24/2014 6:58:24 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

Do you think repeating yourself enough times is the same as intellectually beating all the arguments brought against this claim?

God makes people giving them the freedom to choose.

God knows some people will choose, and go to hell.

Those people that go hell have a real effect on this earth. They do stuff on this earth. They may be people who grow food, build houses, educate at colleges, drive buses, etc...

Those people going to hell may even convince a person to choose God. Maybe God makes them so the people who choose salvation can find God in this fallen world.

And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future. People don't know what should have been or what God sees as the future. Being ignorant of those facts means you make your own decisions.

EXAMPLE: A group of friends and I decide to go tot he movies. We buy the tickets online, hop in the car, grab a bite to eat, all the time talking about the movie we are going to see. Then when we get there the Movie theater is closed due to a water leak. OMG the choice to see the movie was a sham because we never were going to be able to see the movie. Free will is fake because all my choices are altering reality as we know it! Conclusion: your arguments are that ridiculous.

I love the little analogies that can convince people like you.
And people still have freedom of choice because they Don't know the future.
It doesn't matter whether you know it or not.

YOU CAN'T CHANGE IT.

YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE.
But your choice can make no difference to the result.

Your choice is your responsibility. Choosing one way or the other is progressing tot he result. living the result, confirming the result.

You have a meaningless choice.

Many see salvation as a very meaningful life choice.

Thankyou god

Amen

You still offer no rebuttal to hell-going people are for the benefit of the saved.

You can choose to serve god, repent, and come judgement day if it is sincere be going to heaven. You could make the difference today.
Even when god has seen you in hell for eternity?
An interesting theology.

How do you know he didn't see you in heaven?

So the power is in your choice because...

you could choose to be in heaven as God saw it.

OR..

You can choose to be in hell as God saw it.
You just don't get it.
Wherever I'm going god knows I'm there.
I cannot do anything that will change that knowledge.
So whatever I'm doing is what god knows I've done.
Whatever choices I make is what I've already made in gods knowledge.
I can't prove gods knowledge wrong.
If what I am doing will send me to hell then god could not see me in heaven.
If god sees me in heaven then what I'm doing now is how I get there.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
PureX
Posts: 1,515
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5/24/2014 8:13:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 11:15:26 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does your god know all?
If so it knows where you are. (there is no will be for god)
Either heaven or hell.
If your god knows this, then he creates people for the sole purpose of sending them to hell.
The hell he created for people a lot less evil than he seems.

It doesn't matter what God knows or doesn't know. All that matters is what we know and don't know. As long as we are aware of the choices, but not the outcomes, we are free to choose. And each time we do so, we are defining who we are, and who we are becoming.

We are creating ourselves by the choices we're making. This is the essence of freedom. And neither you nor any religious promoter knows what happens next.

If God knows, that's God's problem. It's not ours.