Total Posts:62|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

If Moses wasn't real then.....

Brendan21
Posts: 294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 12:49:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

The whole thing is a croc.
But it's been a very successful con and the muhammad one is almost as successful .

Evolution is making them less pervasive and that is why they are so virulent ATM.
They are under threat by the intellect they have suppressed for millenia.
Their time has come and they are angry.
Oh well.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 1:00:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

No.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 1:02:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 1:00:14 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

No.

Well there goes poor old moshe and the god that the Canaanites invented. YHWH.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Brendan21
Posts: 294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 1:02:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

But it does depend of the existence of a character we know of now as Moses. The lack of evidence for the entire Hebrew population being in Egypt for the alleged 4 centuries or even the alleged escape of well over a million people or their alleged trek through the Delta and beyond to Mt. Sinai. All of these events have no evidence to ever happening. Also ALL the places mention during the Jews mass migration (for which there is no evidence for) are unidentifiable (aka not there and never existed) for historians, including Mt. Sinai itself. All begging the question, 'if its all made up why do people still believe it?'
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 1:11:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 1:02:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:00:14 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

No.

Well there goes poor old moshe and the god that the Canaanites invented. YHWH.

No. Another non sequitur.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 1:15:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 1:02:33 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

But it does depend of the existence of a character we know of now as Moses.

Yes, both Christianity and Judaism depend on the existence of Moses and the fact that God gave his law to the Hebrew people through Moses. What I am saying is that Judaism and Christianity do not absolutely depend on the story about the Hebrew enslavement in Egypt being true. Both Christianity and Judaism could be true even if the Hebrews were never enslaved in Egypt.

The lack of evidence for the entire Hebrew population being in Egypt for the alleged 4 centuries or even the alleged escape of well over a million people or their alleged trek through the Delta and beyond to Mt. Sinai.

That's not a completely sentence.

All of these events have no evidence to ever happening. Also ALL the places mention during the Jews mass migration (for which there is no evidence for) are unidentifiable (aka not there and never existed) for historians, including Mt. Sinai itself.

Being unidentifiable is not the same thing as never having existed.

All begging the question, 'if its all made up why do people still believe it?'

Because they don't grant that it's all made up.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 1:17:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 1:11:19 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:02:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:00:14 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

No.

Well there goes poor old moshe and the god that the Canaanites invented. YHWH.

No. Another non sequitur.

Truth frightens you I see.
Never mind.
I don't care.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 1:25:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 1:17:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:11:19 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:02:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:00:14 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

No.

Well there goes poor old moshe and the god that the Canaanites invented. YHWH.

No. Another non sequitur.

Truth frightens you I see.

More motive-mongering.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
SemperVI
Posts: 294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 2:03:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 1:17:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:11:19 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:02:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:00:14 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

No.

Well there goes poor old moshe and the god that the Canaanites invented. YHWH.

No. Another non sequitur.

Truth frightens you I see.
Never mind.
I don't care.

Apparently you do. It is evident by your prolific presence and in most every posts you write in the Religion section of DOD. If you truly did not care - you would not be here. It is quite obvious for all to see that you are passionate in your belief.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 2:10:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

It's "common knowledge" that the Egyptians didn't use slaves (in whatever sense of the word) to build "megalithic structures". Therefore, Moses was not a real person.

In the first place, one could hardly prove that slaves were not use in construction of any structure. There are many antebellum homes in my neck of the woods. I've been in many of them. You know, it's kinda difficult to tell whether slaves were used in some capacity in their construction or not, really.

One might set about to prove that no such thing as slavery existed in ancient Egypt. That might do it, but even that would be very difficult to prove - especially when 100% of the evidence is on the other side.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Brendan21
Posts: 294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 4:05:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 2:10:30 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

It's "common knowledge" that the Egyptians didn't use slaves (in whatever sense of the word) to build "megalithic structures". Therefore, Moses was not a real person.

In the first place, one could hardly prove that slaves were not use in construction of any structure. There are many antebellum homes in my neck of the woods. I've been in many of them. You know, it's kinda difficult to tell whether slaves were used in some capacity in their construction or not, really.

One might set about to prove that no such thing as slavery existed in ancient Egypt. That might do it, but even that would be very difficult to prove - especially when 100% of the evidence is on the other side.

You actually have the side with no evidence. Do your own research but just look at this section of wikipedia, click under contents Genesis and Exodus. I can link way more but I'm super lazy and would prefer you do your own research.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

It is fact that the Egyptians did not use slaves, but its own countrymen under a work tax for a set number of years, enacted by various Pharaohs.
http://www.pbs.org...

Egypt did use slaves as domestic servants, but none of the slaves were Jewish/Hebrew during the time Moses supposedly lead the Hebrews to freedom.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 4:38:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 4:05:06 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 2:10:30 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

It's "common knowledge" that the Egyptians didn't use slaves (in whatever sense of the word) to build "megalithic structures". Therefore, Moses was not a real person.

In the first place, one could hardly prove that slaves were not use in construction of any structure. There are many antebellum homes in my neck of the woods. I've been in many of them. You know, it's kinda difficult to tell whether slaves were used in some capacity in their construction or not, really.

One might set about to prove that no such thing as slavery existed in ancient Egypt. That might do it, but even that would be very difficult to prove - especially when 100% of the evidence is on the other side.

You actually have the side with no evidence. Do your own research but just look at this section of wikipedia, click under contents Genesis and Exodus. I can link way more but I'm super lazy and would prefer you do your own research.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

It is fact that the Egyptians did not use slaves, but its own countrymen under a work tax for a set number of years, enacted by various Pharaohs.
http://www.pbs.org...

Egypt did use slaves as domestic servants, but none of the slaves were Jewish/Hebrew during the time Moses supposedly lead the Hebrews to freedom.

Oh, I did my own research. These tards basically claim, "Well ... ummm ... yeah, they had slaves, but (get this) didn't work them too hard!" Certainly not! Can't risk upsetting a slave, can we? No, the Egyptians saved the tough work for themselves, but assigned "light duty" to slaves.

So much for the little quibble, with a pout, that "your god condones slavery". Well, hell, why wouldn't He, under those circumstances? I'd pick cooking supper and cleaning house over hard, manual labor any day.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Brendan21
Posts: 294
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 4:58:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 4:38:41 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/22/2014 4:05:06 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 2:10:30 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

It's "common knowledge" that the Egyptians didn't use slaves (in whatever sense of the word) to build "megalithic structures". Therefore, Moses was not a real person.

In the first place, one could hardly prove that slaves were not use in construction of any structure. There are many antebellum homes in my neck of the woods. I've been in many of them. You know, it's kinda difficult to tell whether slaves were used in some capacity in their construction or not, really.

One might set about to prove that no such thing as slavery existed in ancient Egypt. That might do it, but even that would be very difficult to prove - especially when 100% of the evidence is on the other side.

You actually have the side with no evidence. Do your own research but just look at this section of wikipedia, click under contents Genesis and Exodus. I can link way more but I'm super lazy and would prefer you do your own research.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

It is fact that the Egyptians did not use slaves, but its own countrymen under a work tax for a set number of years, enacted by various Pharaohs.
http://www.pbs.org...

Egypt did use slaves as domestic servants, but none of the slaves were Jewish/Hebrew during the time Moses supposedly lead the Hebrews to freedom.

Oh, I did my own research. These tards basically claim, "Well ... ummm ... yeah, they had slaves, but (get this) didn't work them too hard!" Certainly not! Can't risk upsetting a slave, can we? No, the Egyptians saved the tough work for themselves, but assigned "light duty" to slaves.

So much for the little quibble, with a pout, that "your god condones slavery". Well, hell, why wouldn't He, under those circumstances? I'd pick cooking supper and cleaning house over hard, manual labor any day.

No, not at all, though it's typical of people now on this ever dying site to throw insults around while misinterpreting things or just blatantly not even reading it word for word. My point is that the Hebrew history (which would include Moses) was not prevelent in Egypt at the time. If you read the Wiki link I put up and went along the proper way to research it you'd find plenty on how Moses and the story in the bible has absolutely no historical relevance, as Hebrews were not in Egypt. Moses can't be somewhere that it is historically impossible for him to be. Still keep in mind the lack of any evidence for anything told in Moses story, be it the places they saw/passed, the mass migration, that the people existed.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 6:12:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 4:58:05 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 4:38:41 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/22/2014 4:05:06 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
At 5/22/2014 2:10:30 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

It's "common knowledge" that the Egyptians didn't use slaves (in whatever sense of the word) to build "megalithic structures". Therefore, Moses was not a real person.

In the first place, one could hardly prove that slaves were not use in construction of any structure. There are many antebellum homes in my neck of the woods. I've been in many of them. You know, it's kinda difficult to tell whether slaves were used in some capacity in their construction or not, really.

One might set about to prove that no such thing as slavery existed in ancient Egypt. That might do it, but even that would be very difficult to prove - especially when 100% of the evidence is on the other side.

You actually have the side with no evidence. Do your own research but just look at this section of wikipedia, click under contents Genesis and Exodus. I can link way more but I'm super lazy and would prefer you do your own research.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

It is fact that the Egyptians did not use slaves, but its own countrymen under a work tax for a set number of years, enacted by various Pharaohs.
http://www.pbs.org...

Egypt did use slaves as domestic servants, but none of the slaves were Jewish/Hebrew during the time Moses supposedly lead the Hebrews to freedom.

Oh, I did my own research. These tards basically claim, "Well ... ummm ... yeah, they had slaves, but (get this) didn't work them too hard!" Certainly not! Can't risk upsetting a slave, can we? No, the Egyptians saved the tough work for themselves, but assigned "light duty" to slaves.

So much for the little quibble, with a pout, that "your god condones slavery". Well, hell, why wouldn't He, under those circumstances? I'd pick cooking supper and cleaning house over hard, manual labor any day.

No, not at all, though it's typical of people now on this ever dying site to throw insults around while misinterpreting things or just blatantly not even reading it word for word. My point is that the Hebrew history (which would include Moses) was not prevelent in Egypt at the time. If you read the Wiki link I put up and went along the proper way to research it you'd find plenty on how Moses and the story in the bible has absolutely no historical relevance, as Hebrews were not in Egypt. Moses can't be somewhere that it is historically impossible for him to be. Still keep in mind the lack of any evidence for anything told in Moses story, be it the places they saw/passed, the mass migration, that the people existed.

Listen, I read your post - even looked at the links - which is 100% better than what I can say of 90% of the atheists on here. There are a few exceptions.

I just read a debate in which the atheist portion quoted Mark 9: 1 as an example of something that had yet to occur. Correcting the error wasn't even worth the effort. What difference would it make?

Twenty years ago, they were clamoring that David never existed. "No proof" outside the Bible, they said. One doesn't see that on here today. Wonder why?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 7:28:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

Dead Sea Scrolls.
Cygnus
Posts: 153
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 7:30:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:28:12 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

Dead Sea Scrolls.

Sargon of Akkad.
Cygnus
Posts: 153
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 7:44:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I just read a debate in which the atheist portion quoted Mark 9: 1 as an example of something that had yet to occur. Correcting the error wasn't even worth the effort. What difference would it make?

Can you elaborate?
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 10:26:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:44:26 PM, Cygnus wrote:
I just read a debate in which the atheist portion quoted Mark 9: 1 as an example of something that had yet to occur. Correcting the error wasn't even worth the effort. What difference would it make?

Can you elaborate?

Not much to say. John repeatedly preached that the kingdom was at hand. Ditto for Jesus. Mark 9: 1 echoes the same thought. The kingdom was to come when the power came, and the power came on Pentecost when the kingdom, the church, was set up. Thus, afterwards Paul said to the Colossians, "We are in the kingdom". John said the same of himself and the first readers of Revelation.

The coming of the kingdom was not some distant event in the first century, and to declare it yet-future is to present a terrible anachronism.

"giving thanks unto the Father ... who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love." (Col 1: 13)
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/22/2014 11:38:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 2:03:30 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:17:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:11:19 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:02:28 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 1:00:14 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

No.

Well there goes poor old moshe and the god that the Canaanites invented. YHWH.

No. Another non sequitur.

Truth frightens you I see.
Never mind.
I don't care.

Apparently you do. It is evident by your prolific presence and in most every posts you write in the Religion section of DOD. If you truly did not care - you would not be here. It is quite obvious for all to see that you are passionate in your belief.

What belief?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Keltron
Posts: 161
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 1:19:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Twenty years ago, they were clamoring that David never existed. "No proof" outside the Bible, they said. One doesn't see that on here today. Wonder why?

David existed, but his "kingdom" only amounted to a small city state and a bit of the surrounding territory. Solomon and the united monarchy, OTH, are entirely mythical.
E_Pluribus_Unum
Posts: 53
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 1:29:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures,

I might respond in more detail later, but I want to start with this. Where does the Bible refer to Hebrew slaves building pyramids? I haven't yet found any sort of passage that says so in the Bible. In the vague fringes of memory I think 1 Maccabees mentions that Hebrew slaves built the pyramids, but that book isn't considered canon by many groups. Indeed, the pyramids were made from carved stone, while the Hebrews, according to Exodus, were tasked to make mud bricks with straw.
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 1:40:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:28:12 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

Dead Sea Scrolls.

Oh dear.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 5:23:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:40:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 7:28:12 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

Dead Sea Scrolls.

Oh dear.

WOAH,you sure told me.
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 5:59:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:19:06 AM, Keltron wrote:
Twenty years ago, they were clamoring that David never existed. "No proof" outside the Bible, they said. One doesn't see that on here today. Wonder why?

David existed, but his "kingdom" only amounted to a small city state and a bit of the surrounding territory. Solomon and the united monarchy, OTH, are entirely mythical.

I was under the impression that he didn't exist at all, according to quite a few books I have from the '70's and '80's. And the authors aren't exactly unknowns. A couple of them state without reservation that no such person existed.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,240
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 6:46:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 5:23:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 5/23/2014 1:40:45 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 7:28:12 PM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:58:51 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:50:47 PM, philochristos wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures, and this leads to a problem with Moses and his story, which after doing research, I discovered there is no historical evidence for at all outside of the bible, which can't be used as a historical reference. So the problem arises, if Moses wasn't real in the biblical sense, then how can anyone claim to be part of any Abrahamic religion, when the origin turns out to be a fictional story.

Thoughts?

If the details of the slavery story were not true, it wouldn't follow that Moses didn't exist or that Moses didn't recieve the law of God. If God gave his law to the Hebrews through Moses and created a nation out of them, then Judaism is true.

If Jesus is the promised messiah, then Christianity is true.

So neither Judaism nor Christianity absolutely depend on the story of the enslavement of the Hebrews in Egypt.

Do you have even a scrap of evidence (ex biblical) that moses or the exodus ever existed?

Dead Sea Scrolls.

Oh dear.

WOAH,you sure told me.

Do you know what the dead sea scrolls are?
They are early copies of OT manuscripts.
Which just so you know makes them biblical.
As I said

Oh dear.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
annanicole
Posts: 19,787
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/23/2014 7:08:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/23/2014 1:29:36 AM, E_Pluribus_Unum wrote:
At 5/22/2014 12:42:41 PM, Brendan21 wrote:
So it is common knowledge now that the Egyptians didn't use slaves to build the their megalithic structures,

I might respond in more detail later, but I want to start with this. Where does the Bible refer to Hebrew slaves building pyramids? I haven't yet found any sort of passage that says so in the Bible. In the vague fringes of memory I think 1 Maccabees mentions that Hebrew slaves built the pyramids, but that book isn't considered canon by many groups. Indeed, the pyramids were made from carved stone, while the Hebrews, according to Exodus, were tasked to make mud bricks with straw.

So THAT is why I couldn't recall the passage that stated/implied that the pyramids were built by the Hebrews.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."