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Atheists: You Have Some Explaining To Do

Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 6:35:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is addressed to both atheists and agnostics who deny the existence of God, but favor evolution as a fact.

When we evolved from a common ancestor, did the offspring forget who their direct parents are?

If they remembered their parents, then why are their no historical writings about them?

If we evolved from a common ancestor, and if we have the same common ancestor as monkeys and apes, then why is their concept of morality (good and evil) different from yours and not applied to them as well?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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5/22/2014 6:51:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

And humans don't?

Humans don't rape, rob and kill each other? Have you never been to the Middle East? Or virtually anywhere else in the world?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 7:05:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 6:51:35 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

And humans don't?

Humans don't rape, rob and kill each other? Have you never been to the Middle East? Or virtually anywhere else in the world?

Response: Do you rape, rob and steal?
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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5/22/2014 7:08:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:05:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:51:35 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

And humans don't?

Humans don't rape, rob and kill each other? Have you never been to the Middle East? Or virtually anywhere else in the world?

Response: Do you rape, rob and steal?

Nope, now to complete the experiment pick out a random monkey and ask the same question. More often than not the answer will also be no.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 7:11:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:08:12 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/22/2014 7:05:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:51:35 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

And humans don't?

Humans don't rape, rob and kill each other? Have you never been to the Middle East? Or virtually anywhere else in the world?

Response: Do you rape, rob and steal?

Nope, now to complete the experiment pick out a random monkey and ask the same question. More often than not the answer will also be no.

Response: If you have the same ancestor as a monkey, then where did the concept of raping and robbing being wrong come from?
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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5/22/2014 7:19:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:08:12 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/22/2014 7:05:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:51:35 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

And humans don't?

Humans don't rape, rob and kill each other? Have you never been to the Middle East? Or virtually anywhere else in the world?

Response: Do you rape, rob and steal?

Nope, now to complete the experiment pick out a random monkey and ask the same question. More often than not the answer will also be no.

Okay - hey random monkey - do you have the same sense of morality as humans?
Kerfluffer
Posts: 123
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5/22/2014 7:24:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This is addressed to both atheists and agnostics who deny the existence of God, but favor evolution as a fact.
I don't care, I will answer anyway.

When we evolved from a common ancestor, did the offspring forget who their direct parents are?
...No

If they remembered their parents, then why are their no historical writings about them?
Because people didn't start writing history until after they developed writing, which was after they developed speech, which was after they had already evolved.

If we evolved from a common ancestor, and if we have the same common ancestor as monkeys and apes, then why is their concept of morality (good and evil) different from yours and not applied to them as well?
Because monkeys and apes are not rational enough to limit acting on their impulses, and they don't understand the repercussions of their actions as we do. A lot of people are alive today because it's illegal to shoot them.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 7:30:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:24:05 PM, Kerfluffer wrote:
This is addressed to both atheists and agnostics who deny the existence of God, but favor evolution as a fact.
I don't care, I will answer anyway.

When we evolved from a common ancestor, did the offspring forget who their direct parents are?
...No

If they remembered their parents, then why are their no historical writings about them?
Because people didn't start writing history until after they developed writing, which was after they developed speech, which was after they had already evolved.

Response: And why didn't they write down the history of their ancestors once they started to write and develop speech?

If we evolved from a common ancestor, and if we have the same common ancestor as monkeys and apes, then why is their concept of morality (good and evil) different from yours and not applied to them as well?

Because monkeys and apes are not rational enough to limit acting on their impulses, and they don't understand the repercussions of their actions as we do. A lot of people are alive today because it's illegal to shoot them.

Response: Then where did the concept of morality come from, when the common ancestor of monkeys and humans is someone with no morals?
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 7:58:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:30:59 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 7:24:05 PM, Kerfluffer wrote:
This is addressed to both atheists and agnostics who deny the existence of God, but favor evolution as a fact.
I don't care, I will answer anyway.

When we evolved from a common ancestor, did the offspring forget who their direct parents are?
...No

If they remembered their parents, then why are their no historical writings about them?
Because people didn't start writing history until after they developed writing, which was after they developed speech, which was after they had already evolved.

Response: And why didn't they write down the history of their ancestors once they started to write and develop speech?

If we evolved from a common ancestor, and if we have the same common ancestor as monkeys and apes, then why is their concept of morality (good and evil) different from yours and not applied to them as well?

Because monkeys and apes are not rational enough to limit acting on their impulses, and they don't understand the repercussions of their actions as we do. A lot of people are alive today because it's illegal to shoot them.

Response: Then where did the concept of morality come from, when the common ancestor of monkeys and humans is someone with no morals?

Are you trying to say that morality comes from God?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:03:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 7:58:12 PM, Cygnus wrote:
At 5/22/2014 7:30:59 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 7:24:05 PM, Kerfluffer wrote:
This is addressed to both atheists and agnostics who deny the existence of God, but favor evolution as a fact.
I don't care, I will answer anyway.

When we evolved from a common ancestor, did the offspring forget who their direct parents are?
...No

If they remembered their parents, then why are their no historical writings about them?
Because people didn't start writing history until after they developed writing, which was after they developed speech, which was after they had already evolved.

Response: And why didn't they write down the history of their ancestors once they started to write and develop speech?

If we evolved from a common ancestor, and if we have the same common ancestor as monkeys and apes, then why is their concept of morality (good and evil) different from yours and not applied to them as well?

Because monkeys and apes are not rational enough to limit acting on their impulses, and they don't understand the repercussions of their actions as we do. A lot of people are alive today because it's illegal to shoot them.

Response: Then where did the concept of morality come from, when the common ancestor of monkeys and humans is someone with no morals?

Are you trying to say that morality comes from God?

Response: I'm saying atheists and agnostics have some explaining to do. And for their position to be sound, they should be able to answer the questions in the OP.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:12:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:08:32 PM, Cygnus wrote:
Happy reading.

http://scholar.google.com...

Response: A link cannot give a counter response to the flaw concept it presents.
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 8:13:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:12:30 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:08:32 PM, Cygnus wrote:
Happy reading.

http://scholar.google.com...

Response: A link cannot give a counter response to the flaw concept it presents.

Like I said, happy reading.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:15:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:13:46 PM, Cygnus wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:12:30 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:08:32 PM, Cygnus wrote:
Happy reading.

http://scholar.google.com...

Response: A link cannot give a counter response to the flaw concept it presents.

Like I said, happy reading.

Response: Like I said, a link cannot give a counter response to the flaw concept it presents.
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 8:18:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:15:06 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:13:46 PM, Cygnus wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:12:30 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:08:32 PM, Cygnus wrote:
Happy reading.

http://scholar.google.com...

Response: A link cannot give a counter response to the flaw concept it presents.

Like I said, happy reading.

Response: Like I said, a link cannot give a counter response to the flaw concept it presents.

My point being, how much do you know of the flaws within the evolution of morality if you won't read peer-reviewed articles on the subject?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:21:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:18:01 PM, Cygnus wrote:


My point being, how much do you know of the flaws within the evolution of morality if you won't read peer-reviewed articles on the subject?

Response: Which does not address my point that if the articles are valid, then why would an atheist not expound on the subject themself to better address all counter responses?
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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5/22/2014 8:21:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

> Implying that Morality is absolute and that monkey's are just as intelligent and, apparently, rob, rape each other.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:24:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:21:52 PM, Geographia wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

> Implying that Morality is absolute and that monkey's are just as intelligent and, apparently, rob, rape each other.

Response: Implies that the sudden concept of morality held by atheists cannot be explained when their relatives and common ancestor do not share the same morality.
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 8:26:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:21:05 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:18:01 PM, Cygnus wrote:


My point being, how much do you know of the flaws within the evolution of morality if you won't read peer-reviewed articles on the subject?

Response: Which does not address my point that if the articles are valid, then why would an atheist not expound on the subject themself to better address all counter responses?

Because atheists aren't experts on everything. That's what we do when we either need or want to know about a particular topic - read. Preferably from someone who is an expert on that topic.
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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5/22/2014 8:26:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:24:41 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:21:52 PM, Geographia wrote:
At 5/22/2014 6:44:22 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Let me elaborate the last question a bit more. You came from the same ancestors as monkeys. Monkeys see no problem in robbing, raping and killing each other. You do. Where did this concept of morality suddenly come from?

> Implying that Morality is absolute and that monkey's are just as intelligent and, apparently, rob, rape each other.

Response: Implies that the sudden concept of morality held by atheists cannot be explained when their relatives and common ancestor do not share the same morality.

> Implies that morality is not a human made invention and God programmed it to change thousands of times.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:29:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:26:10 PM, Cygnus wrote:

Because atheists aren't experts on everything. That's what we do when we either need or want to know about a particular topic - read. Preferably from someone who is an expert on that topic.

Response: Yet atheists accepts things as facts despite not being an expert. Therefore, only such an atheist can expound their reasons for acceptance and counter response. An article cannot.
Geographia
Posts: 1,467
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5/22/2014 8:31:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:29:33 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:26:10 PM, Cygnus wrote:

Because atheists aren't experts on everything. That's what we do when we either need or want to know about a particular topic - read. Preferably from someone who is an expert on that topic.

Response: Yet atheists accepts things as facts despite not being an expert. Therefore, only such an atheist can expound their reasons for acceptance and counter response. An article cannot.

Experts explain, God sits there.
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 8:32:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:29:33 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:26:10 PM, Cygnus wrote:

Because atheists aren't experts on everything. That's what we do when we either need or want to know about a particular topic - read. Preferably from someone who is an expert on that topic.

Response: Yet atheists accepts things as facts despite not being an expert. Therefore, only such an atheist can expound their reasons for acceptance and counter response. An article cannot.

Would you rather have brain surgery performed by a neurosurgeon with 30 years experience or a plumber?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:36:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:32:30 PM, Cygnus wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:29:33 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:26:10 PM, Cygnus wrote:

Because atheists aren't experts on everything. That's what we do when we either need or want to know about a particular topic - read. Preferably from someone who is an expert on that topic.

Response: Yet atheists accepts things as facts despite not being an expert. Therefore, only such an atheist can expound their reasons for acceptance and counter response. An article cannot.

Would you rather have brain surgery performed by a neurosurgeon with 30 years experience or a plumber?

Response: I would rather have a neurosurgeon answer my concerns directly, then for him to send me a link which would not answer any follow up concerns on what they perform..
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 8:46:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Response: I would rather have a neurosurgeon answer my concerns directly, then for him to send me a link which would not answer any follow up concerns on what they perform..

Then what you should do is contact someone who is an expert on the evolution of morality. The world is full of them. Problem solved! :)
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 8:51:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:46:16 PM, Cygnus wrote:
Response: I would rather have a neurosurgeon answer my concerns directly, then for him to send me a link which would not answer any follow up concerns on what they perform..

Then what you should do is contact someone who is an expert on the evolution of morality. The world is full of them. Problem solved! :)

Response: An expert on the evolution of morality cannot answer why an atheist accepts it, nor answer a counter response addressed to the atheist. OP is still unanswered.
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 8:57:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:51:37 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:46:16 PM, Cygnus wrote:
Response: I would rather have a neurosurgeon answer my concerns directly, then for him to send me a link which would not answer any follow up concerns on what they perform..

Then what you should do is contact someone who is an expert on the evolution of morality. The world is full of them. Problem solved! :)

Response: An expert on the evolution of morality cannot answer why an atheist accepts it, nor answer a counter response addressed to the atheist. OP is still unanswered.

What other option do non-believers have? That morality comes from God?
Fatihah
Posts: 7,714
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5/22/2014 9:03:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 8:57:08 PM, Cygnus wrote:


What other option do non-believers have? That morality comes from God?

Response: That is for non-believers to find out, while addressing the questions:

When we evolved from a common ancestor, did the offspring forget who their direct parents are?

If they remembered their parents, then why are their no historical writings about them?

If we evolved from a common ancestor, and if we have the same common ancestor as monkeys and apes, then why is their concept of morality (good and evil) different from yours and not applied to them as well?
Cygnus
Posts: 153
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5/22/2014 9:18:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/22/2014 9:03:06 PM, Fatihah wrote:
At 5/22/2014 8:57:08 PM, Cygnus wrote:


What other option do non-believers have? That morality comes from God?

Response: That is for non-believers to find out, while addressing the questions:

When we evolved from a common ancestor, did the offspring forget who their direct parents are?

If they remembered their parents, then why are their no historical writings about them?

If we evolved from a common ancestor, and if we have the same common ancestor as monkeys and apes, then why is their concept of morality (good and evil) different from yours and not applied to them as well?

Regarding your first question, it's impossible to know since they're dead. And for your second question, writing is a human construct that wasn't invented until around 6,000 years ago. As for your last question, how do you know monkeys are aware of good and evil? How do you even begin to determine such a thing?