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Selling your soul for fame...

Blade-of-Truth
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5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!
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Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
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5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.
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Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
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5/25/2014 12:01:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I'm really happy you brought up near-death experiences because that's part of my issue with the whole life-after-life concept of either heaven or hell. When I was 12 I was in NC and went white-water rafting. My mom lied and said I was 14 so that I could do a Category IV rapids. Well, at one rapids I ended up getting knocked out of the raft and technically drowned at the section called seven-foot-falls. I don't recall anything except blackness... one second I went under water and the next I was on the rocks with like 12 people around me. Apparently I got caught in a "washer" which is the continuous circular force of water right beneath the rocks. It really fvcks with me everytime I hear a near-death experience that talks about them seeing "god" or seeing a "light"... I didn't see anything and it bothers me alot. I feel like I stared into the face of nothingness and hate that people are sharing lies. What bothers me the most is that I don't really know if they are lying or if I just didn't see anything.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

I get the whole risk argument, but am still not sold. At-least with the Devil we can see empirical evidence of how selling your soul can earn you empirical rewards such as fame, fortune and legendary status. It's hard when there isn't really an incentive to side with "god" unless we are doing it because it's a lesser risk. Like, if a man murdered my wife and I found him in the street, I'd kill him. But because I'm worried about a risk in post-life I'd not avenge my wife's death? I'm just not sold. I'd rather sell my soul, get away with murdering him and then continue living knowing that true justice had been served.
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Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
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5/25/2014 12:03:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

Also, would belief in a god due to possible risk even be considered true faith? You are believing for selfish reasons - i.e., to secure your own position in heaven someday. Would God not view that as unacceptable?
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Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/25/2014 12:18:19 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 12:01:24 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I'm really happy you brought up near-death experiences because that's part of my issue with the whole life-after-life concept of either heaven or hell. When I was 12 I was in NC and went white-water rafting. My mom lied and said I was 14 so that I could do a Category IV rapids. Well, at one rapids I ended up getting knocked out of the raft and technically drowned at the section called seven-foot-falls. I don't recall anything except blackness... one second I went under water and the next I was on the rocks with like 12 people around me. Apparently I got caught in a "washer" which is the continuous circular force of water right beneath the rocks. It really fvcks with me everytime I hear a near-death experience that talks about them seeing "god" or seeing a "light"... I didn't see anything and it bothers me alot. I feel like I stared into the face of nothingness and hate that people are sharing lies. What bothers me the most is that I don't really know if they are lying or if I just didn't see anything.

I understand your point here. However, I don't think that people have near-death experiences every single time they come close to death, and that there's some purpose beneath it. If God made it so people had near-death experiences every time, then we would hear about it constantly. At that point, why wouldn't God just show himself to everyone, since pretty much everyone believes?

I believe that the purpose of life on earth was for us to be tested. We have free agency to believe how we want, act how we want, follow who we want. The purpose of being tested on earth would've gone to waste if God just said "here I am", and as a result we would all believe in him.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

I get the whole risk argument, but am still not sold. At-least with the Devil we can see empirical evidence of how selling your soul can earn you empirical rewards such as fame, fortune and legendary status. It's hard when there isn't really an incentive to side with "god" unless we are doing it because it's a lesser risk. Like, if a man murdered my wife and I found him in the street, I'd kill him. But because I'm worried about a risk in post-life I'd not avenge my wife's death? I'm just not sold. I'd rather sell my soul, get away with murdering him and then continue living knowing that true justice had been served.

Well, my views are a bit different many Christians'. I believe very few people will go to hell. If one is caught up in the world, gets fame, fortune, and all the temporal worldly rewards, then I believe they will have the chance to change in the life to come. I believe there's always a way back, no matter what you do, and the only way for you to go live with the devil would be to try to, and not repent.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/25/2014 12:21:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 12:03:49 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

Also, would belief in a god due to possible risk even be considered true faith? You are believing for selfish reasons - i.e., to secure your own position in heaven someday. Would God not view that as unacceptable?

No, I wouldn't say so, that's just one point I brought up. There are many reasons I believe in God. Also, I wouldn't consider wanting to live with God again selfish. It's something we have to earn, the final, ultimate goal.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
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5/25/2014 12:49:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 12:18:19 AM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 12:01:24 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I'm really happy you brought up near-death experiences because that's part of my issue with the whole life-after-life concept of either heaven or hell. When I was 12 I was in NC and went white-water rafting. My mom lied and said I was 14 so that I could do a Category IV rapids. Well, at one rapids I ended up getting knocked out of the raft and technically drowned at the section called seven-foot-falls. I don't recall anything except blackness... one second I went under water and the next I was on the rocks with like 12 people around me. Apparently I got caught in a "washer" which is the continuous circular force of water right beneath the rocks. It really fvcks with me everytime I hear a near-death experience that talks about them seeing "god" or seeing a "light"... I didn't see anything and it bothers me alot. I feel like I stared into the face of nothingness and hate that people are sharing lies. What bothers me the most is that I don't really know if they are lying or if I just didn't see anything.

I understand your point here. However, I don't think that people have near-death experiences every single time they come close to death, and that there's some purpose beneath it. If God made it so people had near-death experiences every time, then we would hear about it constantly. At that point, why wouldn't God just show himself to everyone, since pretty much everyone believes?

That's true and something I thought of immediately after typing my response. Perhaps I wasn't as near-death as I thought, but I know that I was out cold. I'd rather God did show himself to everyone, I really dislike the stories in the Bible about him appearing to certain people. Talk about favoritism. I think the world would be so much easier if God was here in the physical sense. There are so many factors that just deem it as such an unfair system.

I believe that the purpose of life on earth was for us to be tested. We have free agency to believe how we want, act how we want, follow who we want. The purpose of being tested on earth would've gone to waste if God just said "here I am", and as a result we would all believe in him.

I thought that for awhile too. But what is the point of a test when you are the member of a secluded tribe that's yet to be exposed to Christianity? Or had the unlucky chance of being born before Christianity was even introduced to the world? See where I'm going with this.... The test hypothesis fails for me. I've even heard people say, "O, well then they will be automatically allowed in heaven" or even that their soul would "come back to earth again when Christiantiy was around so that they'd have the test". It's just not a fair system. Also, would an eternity in hell really be a justifiable punishment for 60 - 70 years of sin? That doesn't seem fair to me... nor is it a test I would have ever signed up for had I been given a choice.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

I get the whole risk argument, but am still not sold. At-least with the Devil we can see empirical evidence of how selling your soul can earn you empirical rewards such as fame, fortune and legendary status. It's hard when there isn't really an incentive to side with "god" unless we are doing it because it's a lesser risk. Like, if a man murdered my wife and I found him in the street, I'd kill him. But because I'm worried about a risk in post-life I'd not avenge my wife's death? I'm just not sold. I'd rather sell my soul, get away with murdering him and then continue living knowing that true justice had been served.

Well, my views are a bit different many Christians'. I believe very few people will go to hell. If one is caught up in the world, gets fame, fortune, and all the temporal worldly rewards, then I believe they will have the chance to change in the life to come. I believe there's always a way back, no matter what you do, and the only way for you to go live with the devil would be to try to, and not repent.

Do you subscribe to reincarnation? What do you mean by "they will have the chance to change in the life to come."?
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Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
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5/25/2014 12:51:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 12:21:13 AM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 12:03:49 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

Also, would belief in a god due to possible risk even be considered true faith? You are believing for selfish reasons - i.e., to secure your own position in heaven someday. Would God not view that as unacceptable?

No, I wouldn't say so, that's just one point I brought up. There are many reasons I believe in God. Also, I wouldn't consider wanting to live with God again selfish. It's something we have to earn, the final, ultimate goal.

Yeah but isn't there a difference in wanting to live with God for the sake of it vs. wanting to live with God because you know it's the better option?
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Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/25/2014 1:17:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 12:49:23 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/25/2014 12:18:19 AM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 12:01:24 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I'm really happy you brought up near-death experiences because that's part of my issue with the whole life-after-life concept of either heaven or hell. When I was 12 I was in NC and went white-water rafting. My mom lied and said I was 14 so that I could do a Category IV rapids. Well, at one rapids I ended up getting knocked out of the raft and technically drowned at the section called seven-foot-falls. I don't recall anything except blackness... one second I went under water and the next I was on the rocks with like 12 people around me. Apparently I got caught in a "washer" which is the continuous circular force of water right beneath the rocks. It really fvcks with me everytime I hear a near-death experience that talks about them seeing "god" or seeing a "light"... I didn't see anything and it bothers me alot. I feel like I stared into the face of nothingness and hate that people are sharing lies. What bothers me the most is that I don't really know if they are lying or if I just didn't see anything.

I understand your point here. However, I don't think that people have near-death experiences every single time they come close to death, and that there's some purpose beneath it. If God made it so people had near-death experiences every time, then we would hear about it constantly. At that point, why wouldn't God just show himself to everyone, since pretty much everyone believes?

That's true and something I thought of immediately after typing my response. Perhaps I wasn't as near-death as I thought, but I know that I was out cold. I'd rather God did show himself to everyone, I really dislike the stories in the Bible about him appearing to certain people. Talk about favoritism. I think the world would be so much easier if God was here in the physical sense. There are so many factors that just deem it as such an unfair system.

Well, I presume that the people who God appeared to saw him because of their massive faith. Before Christ performed each miracle, he asked each person if they had faith that he could do it. If they didn't, he wouldn't show them what he could do. So for someone to say "oh, I don't believe in you, but show me you exist anyway" doesn't really work out. Faith precedes the miracle in all cases. Why would God send an angel if he can show you he exists through a miracle?

I believe that the purpose of life on earth was for us to be tested. We have free agency to believe how we want, act how we want, follow who we want. The purpose of being tested on earth would've gone to waste if God just said "here I am", and as a result we would all believe in him.

I thought that for awhile too. But what is the point of a test when you are the member of a secluded tribe that's yet to be exposed to Christianity? Or had the unlucky chance of being born before Christianity was even introduced to the world? See where I'm going with this.... The test hypothesis fails for me. I've even heard people say, "O, well then they will be automatically allowed in heaven" or even that their soul would "come back to earth again when Christiantiy was around so that they'd have the test". It's just not a fair system. Also, would an eternity in hell really be a justifiable punishment for 60 - 70 years of sin? That doesn't seem fair to me... nor is it a test I would have ever signed up for had I been given a choice.

I think it's necessary for me to say my beliefs a bit more. I believe, that those who did not receive the gospel on earth will receive it in the life to come. If I go throughout my life without learning the truth, I will have the ability to be taught it in heaven and will have the choice to accept it then. If I don't accept the gospel of Jesus Christ, I choose to not live with God, and therefore, live with the adversary. If I do sin throughout my life on earth, I have the chance to repent in heaven, accept the gospel, and live with God again.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

I get the whole risk argument, but am still not sold. At-least with the Devil we can see empirical evidence of how selling your soul can earn you empirical rewards such as fame, fortune and legendary status. It's hard when there isn't really an incentive to side with "god" unless we are doing it because it's a lesser risk. Like, if a man murdered my wife and I found him in the street, I'd kill him. But because I'm worried about a risk in post-life I'd not avenge my wife's death? I'm just not sold. I'd rather sell my soul, get away with murdering him and then continue living knowing that true justice had been served.

Well, my views are a bit different many Christians'. I believe very few people will go to hell. If one is caught up in the world, gets fame, fortune, and all the temporal worldly rewards, then I believe they will have the chance to change in the life to come. I believe there's always a way back, no matter what you do, and the only way for you to go live with the devil would be to try to, and not repent.

Do you subscribe to reincarnation? What do you mean by "they will have the chance to change in the life to come."?

As I said above.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Conservative101
Posts: 191
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5/25/2014 1:21:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 12:51:31 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/25/2014 12:21:13 AM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 12:03:49 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.

Also, would belief in a god due to possible risk even be considered true faith? You are believing for selfish reasons - i.e., to secure your own position in heaven someday. Would God not view that as unacceptable?

No, I wouldn't say so, that's just one point I brought up. There are many reasons I believe in God. Also, I wouldn't consider wanting to live with God again selfish. It's something we have to earn, the final, ultimate goal.

Yeah but isn't there a difference in wanting to live with God for the sake of it vs. wanting to live with God because you know it's the better option?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean...if I want to live with God again, the sake of it would be that I would know it's the better option...does that answer your question?

I would want to live with him again to become more humble, righteous, and spiritual. There's no selfishness doing so, because my role in heaven would be to teach others the gospel and help them become righteous as well.
When in doubt, start riots and scream racism
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,035
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5/25/2014 2:02:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:17:56 AM, Conservative101 wrote:
Well, I presume that the people who God appeared to saw him because of their massive faith. Before Christ performed each miracle, he asked each person if they had faith that he could do it. If they didn't, he wouldn't show them what he could do. So for someone to say "oh, I don't believe in you, but show me you exist anyway" doesn't really work out. Faith precedes the miracle in all cases. Why would God send an angel if he can show you he exists through a miracle?

I feel like it's too easy to just say something is a miracle though. We can literally attribute every unexplained phenomenon that is viewed as "good" as a miracle. God is basically asking us to have faith that he exists, without ever providing any unique evidence to me, I mean, I've never had Christ ask me if I have faith or not. If I saw a man perform the miracle he did, I'd become a believer, and I'm sure there were plenty of witnesses that saw him perform miracles without necessarily being believers themself. Especially in cases where he fed the crowds with fish and bread or changed water into wine at his friends wedding. Why wasn't I incarnated in a time where such miracles were being performed by a living, physical person? Why am I subjected to a test of blind faith when they were allowed to witness such miracles in person? These questions aren't things I've had answered yet and I deem them as important questions when determining if such a system of belief is even fair for us humans.

I believe that the purpose of life on earth was for us to be tested. We have free agency to believe how we want, act how we want, follow who we want. The purpose of being tested on earth would've gone to waste if God just said "here I am", and as a result we would all believe in him.

I thought that for awhile too. But what is the point of a test when you are the member of a secluded tribe that's yet to be exposed to Christianity? Or had the unlucky chance of being born before Christianity was even introduced to the world? See where I'm going with this.... The test hypothesis fails for me. I've even heard people say, "O, well then they will be automatically allowed in heaven" or even that their soul would "come back to earth again when Christiantiy was around so that they'd have the test". It's just not a fair system. Also, would an eternity in hell really be a justifiable punishment for 60 - 70 years of sin? That doesn't seem fair to me... nor is it a test I would have ever signed up for had I been given a choice.

I think it's necessary for me to say my beliefs a bit more. I believe, that those who did not receive the gospel on earth will receive it in the life to come. If I go throughout my life without learning the truth, I will have the ability to be taught it in heaven and will have the choice to accept it then. If I don't accept the gospel of Jesus Christ, I choose to not live with God, and therefore, live with the adversary. If I do sin throughout my life on earth, I have the chance to repent in heaven, accept the gospel, and live with God again.

Would they be in some waiting-room type place? Because if they are already exposed to the glory of Heaven before being asked if they want to basically stay or not... it wouldn't really be a hard choice lol. You'll need to expand on this in more detail. Personally, I'd rather choose that option since I'd at-least already be seeing that Heaven was a real place that I could possibly stay in or leave. But the fact that I didn't even have a choice on when or where I was born seems to be problematic considering these people born before Christianity existed are getting to see it before being faced with the decision whereas I am not able to see it before being faced with the decision.
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bulproof
Posts: 25,255
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5/25/2014 2:39:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/24/2014 11:37:57 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 11:07:59 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:42:13 PM, Conservative101 wrote:
At 5/24/2014 10:31:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Would you do it?

Would the Devil ever get tired of all these losers offering their souls?

Would the influx of souls being offered cause the value of soul obtainment to drop?

Does the Devil discriminate?

Why doesn't God offer us money and riches to sell our soul to him?

Fvck heaven, I want my gold and b!tches now!!



Wouldn't you prefer long term happiness/glory rather than short term?

I've yet to be convinced that such a thing exists post-life. I'd rather have my fun while I KNOW I can. If you can convince me a Heaven exists, then please do, I am always open to having my opinions changed.

The best argument against life after death is the "absence of evidence", which, in itself, isn't that much of an argument. If you're really interested, there are some books such as Life After Death: The Evidence by Dinesh D'Souza. I plan on reading it someday, and when I do, I'll probably get back to you if I'm still here. But for now, the only thing I can think of are near death experiences, which there have been many reports of happening.

I think it's a lot less risky to believe in God. If we believe in him, and it turns out he doesn't exist, then we've made a metaphysical error. But if we don't believe in him, and it turns out he does exist, then we face a much more dire consequence: eternal separation from him. So if we risk it all in this life, and find out he exists in the next life, then oops, big mistake. However, if he doesn't exist, then we live, and we die. It's more risky to blow your stakes here than to stay believing and humble.
I suggest you have a talk with ole Pascal, oh you can't he's well rotted away. Never mind.
Ya just gotta love boogeyman god though. LOL
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin