Total Posts:15|Showing Posts:1-15
Jump to topic:

Do disbelievers choose to go to hell?

NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 1:50:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

It depends on why they weren't convinced.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 1:52:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:50:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

It depends on why they weren't convinced.

If the evidence is already limited and insufficient, I don't see why that even matters.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 2:02:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:52:21 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:50:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

It depends on why they weren't convinced.

If the evidence is already limited and insufficient, I don't see why that even matters.

Insufficient relative to whom? Some people find the evidence for evolution insufficient...does that there isn't good reason to infer from the evidence that evolution occurred? Of course it matters why they weren't convinced.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 2:02:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

Do you think religious leaders believe in heaven and hell . Catholic church recently said it is not responsible for abuse of kids by its priests. At one point they teach abstinence and at another point they can't abstain from below human acts.

Catholic church enslaved irish women. Read the news article below

http://americablog.com...

In India widows are burnt alive. In Muslim countries women are murdered for not obeying local customs.

If you are honest and live a clean life, you don't need the fear of heaven and hell to motivate you to become a good person.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 2:13:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 2:02:04 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:52:21 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:50:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

It depends on why they weren't convinced.

If the evidence is already limited and insufficient, I don't see why that even matters.

Insufficient relative to whom? Some people find the evidence for evolution insufficient...does that there isn't good reason to infer from the evidence that evolution occurred? Of course it matters why they weren't convinced.

You don't seem to be familiar with the difference between strong and weak inductions. The fact that some people find good evidence insufficient doesn't mean that the sufficiency of evidence is a subjective notion, surely the sufficiency of evidence is an applied metric in our courtrooms and laboratories, and it is determined by simply comparing how many baseless assumptions can be avoided in making a certain induction and how much predictions that particular induction explains or covers.

Back to our original topic, If there is evidence for hell as there is for evolution, I would surely accept the existence of hell. But there isn't. The reason for each individual's lack of conviction isn't really a good reason to give someone eternal torment. It's like saying, "Hey, Bill. You didn't accept the doctrine of hell because you're skeptical, there's heaven for you. But Bob, you dismissed it more because you had a naturalistic bias, please burn in hell for rest of eternity."
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 2:22:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 2:02:21 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

Do you think religious leaders believe in heaven and hell . Catholic church recently said it is not responsible for abuse of kids by its priests. At one point they teach abstinence and at another point they can't abstain from below human acts.

Catholic church enslaved irish women. Read the news article below

http://americablog.com...

In India widows are burnt alive. In Muslim countries women are murdered for not obeying local customs.

If you are honest and live a clean life, you don't need the fear of heaven and hell to motivate you to become a good person.

I'm not familiar with any religious leaders or have personally interacted with any of them, and so I fear I cannot comment on whether some of them do secretly entertain the idea that hell doesn't exist, but I do agree with your claim that hell and heaven are not needed for morality, mainly because you can think of an alternative sanction system or have a sophisticated system of morality that doesn't rely on sanctions altogether.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 6:09:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

well in reality you cant prove anything 100% but always we must choose the best explanation through reasoning,
Never fart near dog
Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 6:34:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 2:02:04 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:52:21 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:50:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

It depends on why they weren't convinced.

If the evidence is already limited and insufficient, I don't see why that even matters.

Insufficient relative to whom? Some people find the evidence for evolution insufficient...does that there isn't good reason to infer from the evidence that evolution occurred? Of course it matters why they weren't convinced.

Only stupid people. Sorry for all the people that offends, but it's the truth. If you're comparing the evidence supporting evolution for the evidence supporting a specific god, I think 'comparable' has lost all meaning.
NiqashMotawadi3
Posts: 1,895
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 6:45:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 6:09:42 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

well in reality you cant prove anything 100% but always we must choose the best explanation through reasoning,

And you think Islam is a better explanation than Agnosticism?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 9:26:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 2:13:54 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 2:02:04 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:52:21 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:50:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

It depends on why they weren't convinced.

If the evidence is already limited and insufficient, I don't see why that even matters.

Insufficient relative to whom? Some people find the evidence for evolution insufficient...does that there isn't good reason to infer from the evidence that evolution occurred? Of course it matters why they weren't convinced.

You don't seem to be familiar with the difference between strong and weak inductions. The fact that some people find good evidence insufficient doesn't mean that the sufficiency of evidence is a subjective notion, surely the sufficiency of evidence is an applied metric in our courtrooms and laboratories, and it is determined by simply comparing how many baseless assumptions can be avoided in making a certain induction and how much predictions that particular induction explains or covers.


You don't seem to be familiar with contextualism in epistemology and plausibility frameworks. What is plausible or what counts as "sufficient" evidence to a person heavily depends on ones plausibility structure and/or context they take themselves to be justified to draw inferences from evidence.

Back to our original topic, If there is evidence for hell as there is for evolution, I would surely accept the existence of hell. But there isn't. The reason for each individual's lack of conviction isn't really a good reason to give someone eternal torment. It's like saying, "Hey, Bill. You didn't accept the doctrine of hell because you're skeptical, there's heaven for you. But Bob, you dismissed it more because you had a naturalistic bias, please burn in hell for rest of eternity."

So you're saying no reason for the lack of conviction should matter? Suppose they aren't convinced because they are willfully ignorant or morally corrupt?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
PureX
Posts: 1,527
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 10:28:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Hell" is a state of being. Depending on what all one chooses to "disbelieve", he may already be in hell.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 10:51:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 6:45:43 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 6:09:42 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

well in reality you cant prove anything 100% but always we must choose the best explanation through reasoning,

And you think Islam is a better explanation than Agnosticism?

im not saying islam, to believe in the existence of God makes more sense than not to believe in it. and looking the religions around the world, i think islam is the most logical religion there.
Never fart near dog
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,373
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 12:00:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.
People generally don't choose eternal torment in and of itself. What is generally meant by someone who says something like "disbelievers choose Hell", is that they choose one alternative scenario over another. They choose to reject God's forgiveness (from a Christian standpoint), preferring the alternative scenario of Hell should it exist.

As far as evidence, it really begins with is there evidence of God? If there is, is there evidence that God is personal and interactive with mankind? If so, is mankind accountable for their actions? is there evidence that God inspired men to write His message to mankind on paper? If so, even though we haven't seen Hell itself, can God be trusted with the claim that Hell exists?
SNP1
Posts: 2,403
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/25/2014 4:48:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/25/2014 1:44:50 AM, NiqashMotawadi3 wrote:
I hear it often from Muslims and Christians that disbelievers choose eternal torment, if that is so, people who choose eternal torment should be psychologically helped not given eternal torment.

Truth of the matter, there are no actual proofs for the existence of hell, just some attempts, and those are not good enough to make someone believe or disbelieve in the existence of hell. Therefore, those who go to hell are those who were given a very limited sample of evidence that didn't convince them, which makes heaven a place to praise the indoctrinated and hell a place to punish the ignorant or skeptical.

This should help.

https://www.youtube.com...

Darkmatter2525 has some interesting videos
#TheApatheticNihilistPartyofAmerica
#WarOnDDO