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Does Islam have any proofs?

POPOO5560
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5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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5/31/2014 8:38:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
They don't even have alcohol, so the answer is no.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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5/31/2014 8:48:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

You can read my topic here

http://www.debate.org...

We can discuss about Islam or any other religion on my topic. I find it easy to reply there.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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5/31/2014 9:33:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 8:48:17 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

You can read my topic here

http://www.debate.org...

We can discuss about Islam or any other religion on my topic. I find it easy to reply there.

i did but im referring to islam here not to other religions... and secondly every time someone takes something in the holy books "scientific errors", other poeple will interpret in other way to your interpretation... so the best way to disprove any claim that if you can show that there is no real miracles or proofs in cearten book, by doing that you showing its only a waste of time reading it.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...


2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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5/31/2014 9:58:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...


2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.

here in more detail... http://www.islamic-awareness.org...
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skinker
Posts: 345
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5/31/2014 11:12:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is the point when Muhammad's Islam shares the same historical errors as does Judaism which invented them. If Muhammad couldn't tell that priests of Judah told whoppers and they did, as confirmed by Israeli archeologists, then NOTHING Muhammad has to say is of spiritual value. Nothing. Because Muhammad believed the lies of Judah and told Muslims to believe them too as the author of this thread no doubt believes as commanded by Muhammad. Poor ignorant Muslims trapped into believing religious propaganda because they refuse to learn that it was always rather dumb to place all your beliefs upon 7th century knowledge of history and knowledge of the world. Logic always tells us the past only dictates the future in cultures that are dying out.
POPOO5560
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6/1/2014 12:08:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 11:12:35 PM, skinker wrote:
What is the point when Muhammad's Islam shares the same historical errors as does Judaism which invented them. If Muhammad couldn't tell that priests of Judah told whoppers and they did, as confirmed by Israeli archeologists, then NOTHING Muhammad has to say is of spiritual value. Nothing. Because Muhammad believed the lies of Judah and told Muslims to believe them too as the author of this thread no doubt believes as commanded by Muhammad. Poor ignorant Muslims trapped into believing religious propaganda because they refuse to learn that it was always rather dumb to place all your beliefs upon 7th century knowledge of history and knowledge of the world. Logic always tells us the past only dictates the future in cultures that are dying out.

Speaking without evidence and you didnt respond to me 2 exaplmes... if you have some objection come forward.
Never fart near dog
skinker
Posts: 345
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6/1/2014 4:22:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 12:08:53 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 11:12:35 PM, skinker wrote:
What is the point when Muhammad's Islam shares the same historical errors as does Judaism which invented them. If Muhammad couldn't tell that priests of Judah told whoppers and they did, as confirmed by Israeli archeologists, then NOTHING Muhammad has to say is of spiritual value. Nothing. Because Muhammad believed the lies of Judah and told Muslims to believe them too as the author of this thread no doubt believes as commanded by Muhammad. Poor ignorant Muslims trapped into believing religious propaganda because they refuse to learn that it was always rather dumb to place all your beliefs upon 7th century knowledge of history and knowledge of the world. Logic always tells us the past only dictates the future in cultures that are dying out.

Speaking without evidence and you didnt respond to me 2 exaplmes... if you have some objection come forward.

Do your homework first before trotting out Muhammad's ignorance of real history of Jews including all the Stories Muhammad rested his theology upon that are proven by Israeli archeologists to be utter falsehoods, complete fabrications, myths, fables without historical foundation. You cannot derive any spiritual authority from falsehoods no matter how tradition has overlaid them with all sorts of commentaries and meanings. It still means nothing spiritually when your prophets and priests, imams, and whatever, do not know at all what they are talking about and telling the world fibs.

Muhammad's Islam is facing its End Times right along with Judaism and Pauline Christianity, all three resting their beliefs upon ancient Jewish fables. Sorry, but that's what happens when you let others do your spiritual heavy lifting for you and you give them authority over your own spiritual relationship with God. When the human intercessors are proven false, your whole religious belief system collapses with them. Next time, try Gnosis, which is direct spiritual communion with God, no human intercessors to get in the way between you and God. That is the only spiritually authentic relationship with God. Otherwise, you are only a clone of another man's relationship with God and as we see, putting your faith in an ancient 7th century man has proven to be a major error in judgment for all Muslims.
skinker
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6/1/2014 4:23:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The End of Judaism marks the End of Muhammad's Islam as well: The Bible Unearthed: the work of Israel Finkelstein and Neil Silberman:
skinker
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6/1/2014 4:25:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Debate won't post the link but do a You Tube or Google search on The Bible Unearthed to find out why all Abrahamic religions are facing their End Times now as the writers of the Bible stories have been exposed as myth-makers and only that.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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6/1/2014 4:48:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/1/2014 4:22:33 PM, skinker wrote:
At 6/1/2014 12:08:53 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 11:12:35 PM, skinker wrote:
What is the point when Muhammad's Islam shares the same historical errors as does Judaism which invented them. If Muhammad couldn't tell that priests of Judah told whoppers and they did, as confirmed by Israeli archeologists, then NOTHING Muhammad has to say is of spiritual value. Nothing. Because Muhammad believed the lies of Judah and told Muslims to believe them too as the author of this thread no doubt believes as commanded by Muhammad. Poor ignorant Muslims trapped into believing religious propaganda because they refuse to learn that it was always rather dumb to place all your beliefs upon 7th century knowledge of history and knowledge of the world. Logic always tells us the past only dictates the future in cultures that are dying out.

Speaking without evidence and you didnt respond to me 2 exaplmes... if you have some objection come forward.

Do your homework first before trotting out Muhammad's ignorance of real history of Jews including all the Stories Muhammad rested his theology upon that are proven by Israeli archeologists to be utter falsehoods, complete fabrications, myths, fables without historical foundation. You cannot derive any spiritual authority from falsehoods no matter how tradition has overlaid them with all sorts of commentaries and meanings. It still means nothing spiritually when your prophets and priests, imams, and whatever, do not know at all what they are talking about and telling the world fibs.



Muhammad's Islam is facing its End Times right along with Judaism and Pauline Christianity, all three resting their beliefs upon ancient Jewish fables. Sorry, but that's what happens when you let others do your spiritual heavy lifting for you and you give them authority over your own spiritual relationship with God. When the human intercessors are proven false, your whole religious belief system collapses with them. Next time, try Gnosis, which is direct spiritual communion with God, no human intercessors to get in the way between you and God. That is the only spiritually authentic relationship with God. Otherwise, you are only a clone of another man's relationship with God and as we see, putting your faith in an ancient 7th century man has proven to be a major error in judgment for all Muslims.

Yeah sure uploading some decumentary makes all religions wrong... just myths to add here. you talking nonsense...
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skinker
Posts: 345
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6/1/2014 8:39:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Sorry, but archeological science trumps religious propaganda. You really do need to learn about these Israeli archeologists and the work they've done that more or less destroys any real spiritual authority in any Abrahamic religion, they all based themselves on Judah's lies about Moses, Exodus, Adam and Eve, Noah, David and Solomon, all fictions, all believed by Muhammad as real history. No spiritual authority in myths taken and taught as real history when they never were.

Try Gnosis next time. Its real and not man-made religion.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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6/2/2014 6:43:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...

It's irrelevant if the language is dead if the words survived in other languages.



2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.

Irrelevant. It was already known that eclipses happened at regular intervals not pertaining to events on earth by at least some people. The notion appearing in the Quran is nothing spectacular.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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6/2/2014 7:14:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 6:43:06 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...

It's irrelevant if the language is dead if the words survived in other languages.



2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.

Irrelevant. It was already known that eclipses happened at regular intervals not pertaining to events on earth by at least some people. The notion appearing in the Quran is nothing spectacular.

Its was known in the desert of arabia? really? do you know hisotry of pre-islamic era? they were just bunch of superstitions people, pagans who did crazy stuff. its unlikly to guess the true answer at that time.
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TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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6/2/2014 7:43:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:14:54 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/2/2014 6:43:06 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...

It's irrelevant if the language is dead if the words survived in other languages.



2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.

Irrelevant. It was already known that eclipses happened at regular intervals not pertaining to events on earth by at least some people. The notion appearing in the Quran is nothing spectacular.

Its was known in the desert of arabia? really? do you know hisotry of pre-islamic era? they were just bunch of superstitions people, pagans who did crazy stuff. its unlikly to guess the true answer at that time.

It doesn't matter that they were superstitious. The point you're trying to make is that the Quran contains knowledge that could have only been obtained through some sort of divine revelation and that's simply not the case.
POPOO5560
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6/2/2014 7:47:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:43:18 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 6/2/2014 7:14:54 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/2/2014 6:43:06 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...

It's irrelevant if the language is dead if the words survived in other languages.



2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.

Irrelevant. It was already known that eclipses happened at regular intervals not pertaining to events on earth by at least some people. The notion appearing in the Quran is nothing spectacular.

Its was known in the desert of arabia? really? do you know hisotry of pre-islamic era? they were just bunch of superstitions people, pagans who did crazy stuff. its unlikly to guess the true answer at that time.

It doesn't matter that they were superstitious. The point you're trying to make is that the Quran contains knowledge that could have only been obtained through some sort of divine revelation and that's simply not the case.

Sure. your point is to refute it.
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bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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6/2/2014 8:10:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 7:14:54 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/2/2014 6:43:06 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...

It's irrelevant if the language is dead if the words survived in other languages.



2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.

Irrelevant. It was already known that eclipses happened at regular intervals not pertaining to events on earth by at least some people. The notion appearing in the Quran is nothing spectacular.

Its was known in the desert of arabia? really? do you know hisotry of pre-islamic era? they were just bunch of superstitions people, pagans who did crazy stuff. its unlikly to guess the true answer at that time.

Islam grew as a result of the absolute ignorance of the Arabs, is this your argument?
They were so ignorantly superstitious that they believed Muhammad was miraculous?
What's your excuse?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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6/2/2014 8:42:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 8:10:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/2/2014 7:14:54 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/2/2014 6:43:06 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:49:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 5/31/2014 9:21:40 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/31/2014 6:07:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
As a muslim, i read many stuff about this subject and there are many people who dont agree, so it would be good to see and understand the 2 views of this assertion... here 2 examples that really intresting me...

1) The leader of the egyptians mentioned in the Quran in the by 2 names (Pharaoh & King) in 2 different times in history, the New kingdom and the middle kindom. this was unknown it was a dead language (hieroglyphs) until the 19th century. i would like to point out that the Bible mentions in all the prophets times (abrahem,joseph and moses - pbut) the leader of the egyptains by the name "pharaoh", in the Quran in the time of yusuf (joseph) the name of the egyptains named "King", and in the time of Moses is "Pharaoh". So if it was copied it would do the same mistake..

The language may have been dead, but bits and pieces survived as borrowed words in other languages (Par'oh in Hebrew, Pharao in Greek, Pharaonem in Latin, and Pharon in Old English).

Its not about the names in Hebrew Greek or whatever... its about the Quran distinguish between the times of Joseoh and Moses, by choosing each one its proper names of the leaders of each time. and its impossible to the Arabs in 7 century to know that information because it was a dead language until 19th century...

It's irrelevant if the language is dead if the words survived in other languages.



2) The death of the prophet Mohammed pbuh.
During the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), there was a solar eclipse on the day that his son Ibrahim died. Some superstitious people said that the sun eclipsed because of the young child's death and the Prophet's sadness on that day. The Prophet corrected their understanding: "The sun and the moon are two signs amongst the signs of Allah. They do not eclipse because of someone's death or life. So when you see them, invoke Allah and pray until the eclipse.

now what intresting is at that time, there was many myths or superstitions to explain such phenomenons, like some believe they occur when a great figure die or some omen for defeat in battles and the like... if the prophet wanted to be fame,money or authority, and had he liked the idea of being praised or to gain a higher status among his people.
but instead he clearly said that sun and the moon are Gods creatures, they are his signs which are subservient to his will. They have no relation to what takes place on earth, whether it is the birth or death of a person, or whatever else. so if was a lair he would be wrong, but the opposite happened.

so searching for non muslim views on such stuff and it would be better to know the muslim view and the non muslim views...

Yeah... astronomers of the day already knew what eclipses were and how to predict them. Many different methods were developed independently by the Mesopotamians, Chinese, Egyptians, etc. to predict solar eclipses (with varying degrees of success). While ignorant commoners might still have try to explained them with fair tales (as they are wont to do) an explanation of eclipses as natural phenomenon would have been hardly revolutionary in the 7th century AD.

At that time there were many myths and superstitions. its not easy as you claiming that it was already known. everything they saw they tried to explain it by superstitions stuff, we talking about 7 century not todays era, everybody claimed whatever they thought, maybe they were right or wrong.

Irrelevant. It was already known that eclipses happened at regular intervals not pertaining to events on earth by at least some people. The notion appearing in the Quran is nothing spectacular.

Its was known in the desert of arabia? really? do you know hisotry of pre-islamic era? they were just bunch of superstitions people, pagans who did crazy stuff. its unlikly to guess the true answer at that time.

Islam grew as a result of the absolute ignorance of the Arabs, is this your argument?
They were so ignorantly superstitious that they believed Muhammad was miraculous?
What's your excuse?

hhhaaaa please address the 2 examples, if you cant find an answer, dont write crap.
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bulproof
Posts: 25,221
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6/2/2014 9:04:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/2/2014 8:42:32 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:

hhhaaaa please address the 2 examples, if you cant find an answer, dont write crap.
Lets use yours....................hahahahahahaha

Its was known in the desert of arabia? really? do you know hisotry of pre-islamic era? they were just bunch of superstitions people, pagans who did crazy stuff. its unlikly to guess the true answer at that time.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin