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Church arsons, did they have it coming?

Kvitrafn
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6/5/2014 2:07:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Musicians and fans of the Norwegian black metal scene took part in over 50 arsons of Christian churches from 1992 to 1996. Some of the buildings were hundreds of years old, and widely regarded as important historical landmarks. One of the first and most notable was Norway's Fantoft stave church, which the police believed was burnt by Varg Vikernes. In May 1994, he was found guilty for the burnings of Holmenkollen Chapel, Skjold Church and "sane Church. To coincide with the release of Mayhem's De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, Vikernes and Euronymous had allegedly plotted to blow up Nidaros Cathedral, which appears on the album cover. Euronymous's murder in August 1993 put an end to this plan and stalled the album's release. The musicians Samoth, Faust and Jorn Inge Tunsberg were also convicted for church arsons.

Many of those convicted for the church burnings have said that their actions were a symbolic "retaliation" against Christianity in Norway. According to Mayhem drummer Hellhammer, he had urged the others to focus their attacks on mosques and Hindu temples instead. Today, opinions on the church burnings differ within the black metal community. Guitarist Infernus and former vocalist Gaahl of the band Gorgoroth have praised the church burnings in interviews, with the latter saying "there should have been more of them, and there will be more of them"."


The Christian church throughout history has made an effort to destroy, maim and vanquish any sign of Europe's pagan roots and beliefs. The religion itself came by bloodshed, a great contradiction and irony seeing they preach 'peace'. I once wrote an essay on how the Netherlands went through ages of resistance before they finally were officially conquered by Christian forces. It made me see how brutal this "all-loving" religion is.

The church arsons in the early 90s in Norway, did they have it coming? Debate!
Schzincko
Posts: 119
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6/5/2014 3:03:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 2:07:02 PM, Kvitrafn wrote:
"Musicians and fans of the Norwegian black metal scene took part in over 50 arsons of Christian churches from 1992 to 1996. Some of the buildings were hundreds of years old, and widely regarded as important historical landmarks. One of the first and most notable was Norway's Fantoft stave church, which the police believed was burnt by Varg Vikernes. In May 1994, he was found guilty for the burnings of Holmenkollen Chapel, Skjold Church and "sane Church. To coincide with the release of Mayhem's De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, Vikernes and Euronymous had allegedly plotted to blow up Nidaros Cathedral, which appears on the album cover. Euronymous's murder in August 1993 put an end to this plan and stalled the album's release. The musicians Samoth, Faust and Jorn Inge Tunsberg were also convicted for church arsons.

Many of those convicted for the church burnings have said that their actions were a symbolic "retaliation" against Christianity in Norway. According to Mayhem drummer Hellhammer, he had urged the others to focus their attacks on mosques and Hindu temples instead. Today, opinions on the church burnings differ within the black metal community. Guitarist Infernus and former vocalist Gaahl of the band Gorgoroth have praised the church burnings in interviews, with the latter saying "there should have been more of them, and there will be more of them"."


The Christian church throughout history has made an effort to destroy, maim and vanquish any sign of Europe's pagan roots and beliefs. The religion itself came by bloodshed, a great contradiction and irony seeing they preach 'peace'. I once wrote an essay on how the Netherlands went through ages of resistance before they finally were officially conquered by Christian forces. It made me see how brutal this "all-loving" religion is.

The church arsons in the early 90s in Norway, did they have it coming? Debate!

As much as I feel it's necessary to pin a lot (and I mean a lot) of blood from war on religions, it isn't fair to say that Christianity hasn't changed.

My answer is no, they did not. And it places another reason for a bad name on the people that others had a bad opinion on anyways.
Kvitrafn
Posts: 5
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6/5/2014 3:17:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:03:09 PM, Schzincko wrote:
At 6/5/2014 2:07:02 PM, Kvitrafn wrote:
"Musicians and fans of the Norwegian black metal scene took part in over 50 arsons of Christian churches from 1992 to 1996. Some of the buildings were hundreds of years old, and widely regarded as important historical landmarks. One of the first and most notable was Norway's Fantoft stave church, which the police believed was burnt by Varg Vikernes. In May 1994, he was found guilty for the burnings of Holmenkollen Chapel, Skjold Church and "sane Church. To coincide with the release of Mayhem's De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, Vikernes and Euronymous had allegedly plotted to blow up Nidaros Cathedral, which appears on the album cover. Euronymous's murder in August 1993 put an end to this plan and stalled the album's release. The musicians Samoth, Faust and Jorn Inge Tunsberg were also convicted for church arsons.

Many of those convicted for the church burnings have said that their actions were a symbolic "retaliation" against Christianity in Norway. According to Mayhem drummer Hellhammer, he had urged the others to focus their attacks on mosques and Hindu temples instead. Today, opinions on the church burnings differ within the black metal community. Guitarist Infernus and former vocalist Gaahl of the band Gorgoroth have praised the church burnings in interviews, with the latter saying "there should have been more of them, and there will be more of them"."


The Christian church throughout history has made an effort to destroy, maim and vanquish any sign of Europe's pagan roots and beliefs. The religion itself came by bloodshed, a great contradiction and irony seeing they preach 'peace'. I once wrote an essay on how the Netherlands went through ages of resistance before they finally were officially conquered by Christian forces. It made me see how brutal this "all-loving" religion is.

The church arsons in the early 90s in Norway, did they have it coming? Debate!

As much as I feel it's necessary to pin a lot (and I mean a lot) of blood from war on religions, it isn't fair to say that Christianity hasn't changed.

My answer is no, they did not. And it places another reason for a bad name on the people that others had a bad opinion on anyways.

That would be a little easy, I think. First conquer the world and destroy everything in your path, then leave not a single apology and just change into a peaceful community. In churches build on top of pagan sacred groves and whatnot.

I can't just take that, it still makes me cringe. It's like if Hitler would have become a peaceful guy AFTER getting rid of all the Jews. Just too much to simply forget and move on.
Schzincko
Posts: 119
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6/5/2014 7:24:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 3:17:37 PM, Kvitrafn wrote:

That would be a little easy, I think. First conquer the world and destroy everything in your path, then leave not a single apology and just change into a peaceful community. In churches build on top of pagan sacred groves and whatnot.

I can't just take that, it still makes me cringe. It's like if Hitler would have become a peaceful guy AFTER getting rid of all the Jews. Just too much to simply forget and move on

Yes, but by taking those things back from the past (aside from the Hitler example) and making revenge by burning down churches, does that make the arsonist any better-willed than the people they're angry at?

I mean really, who knows what would have happened if the Christians hadn't been successful before they changed their outlook? The world today wouldn't be the same at all.
The point is, you can't possibly say that burning anything is the act of good will.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/5/2014 7:53:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Suuuuurrre, let's let the "Norwegian Black Metal scene" run the show.
https://www.google.com...

"when it was revealed that its members had been responsible for the murders and a wave of church burnings in Norway. In interviews, they voiced extreme anti-Christian and misanthropic views, presenting themselves as Devil worshippers who wanted to spread hatred, sorrow and evil. It was identified by some as a cult: "

"On 8 April 1991, Mayhem vocalist Per Yngve Ohlin (who called himself 'Dead') committed suicide while alone in a house shared by the band.[8][9] Fellow musicians described Dead as odd, introverted and depressed. Before going onstage he went to great lengths to make himself look like a corpse and would cut his arms while singing.[3][10]

He was found with slit wrists, a slit throat and a shotgun wound to the head, by Mayhem guitarist Euronymous. Dead's suicide note apologized for firing the weapon indoors and ended: "Excuse all the blood".[9][11] Before calling the police, Euronymous allegedly went to a nearby shop and bought a disposable camera with which he photographed the body, after re-arranging some items.[12] One of these photographs was later used as the cover of a bootleg live album: Dawn of the Black Hearts. In time, rumors spread that Euronymous had made a stew with bits of Dead's brain and had made necklaces with bits of his skull."

"The Norwegian black metal scene was bitterly opposed to Christianity and organized religion as a whole. In interviews during the early 1990s, Euronymous and other members of the scene presented themselves as misanthropic Devil worshippers[33] who wanted to spread hatred, sorrow and evil. They attacked the Church of Satan for being too "humane".[34] The theistic Satanism they espoused was an inversion of Christianity.[35] Euronymous was the key figure behind this ideology.[22][29] He professed to be in favor of totalitarianism and against individualism, compassion, peace, happiness and fun.[36] When asked why such statements were made to the press, Ihsahn of Emperor said: "I think that was very much to create fear among people".

"On 21 August 1992, B"rd 'Faust' Eithun stabbed to death Magne Andreassen, a gay man, in a forest just outside Lillehammer.[5] Faust was visiting his family there.[64] He went to a pub and had a drink, but "the atmosphere didn't suit him, so he decided to head home".[64] According to Faust, while walking in the Olympic park, "this man approached me " he was obviously drunk and obviously a faggot [...] it was obvious that he wanted to have some contact. Then he asked me if we could [...] go up to the woods. So I agreed, because already then I had decided that I wanted to kill him, which was very weird because I'm not like this".[65] Faust carried a knife because, as he explained: "It's better to have a knife you don't need than to not have one when you need it".[64] Once in the woods, Faust stabbed Andreassen 37[66] times and then kicked him in the head repeatedly as he lay on the ground."

"In early 1993, animosity arose between Euronymous and Vikernes, and between Euronymous and the Swedish black metal scene.[61]

On the night of 10 August 1993, Vikernes and Snorre 'Blackthorn' Ruch drove from Bergen to Euronymous's apartment at T"yengata[9] (English: T"yen Street) in Oslo. Upon their arrival a confrontation began and Vikernes fatally stabbed Euronymous. His body was found on the stairs outside the apartment with 23 cut wounds " two to the head, five to the neck, and sixteen to the back.[78] At first, many blamed Swedish black metalers for the murder."

"There was a strong rivalry between Norwegian black metal and Swedish death metal scenes. Fenriz and Tchort have noted that Norwegian black metal musicians had become "fed up with the whole death metal scene"[86] and that "death metal was very uncool in Oslo" at the time.[8] A number of times, Euronymous sent death threats to some of the more 'mainstream' death metal groups in Europe.[8] Allegedly, a group of Norwegian black metal fans even plotted to kidnap and murder certain Swedish death metal musicians."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, sounds like a good idea....
Kvitrafn
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6/6/2014 4:42:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
First of all, you should never trust anything reported by the media. Their first priority is to spread propaganda, their second priority is to make money. They never really care if they tell the truth or not.

In many interviews there is specifically stated that the arsonists were NOT Satanists but that that was just a label put on them by the media to draw attention. They were against Christianity and what it has done to Europe. Most of those churches, as I mentioned earlier, were build on top of a pagan sacred site.

The ideology of this so-called Satanism, which term Vikernes loathes (and I do not mean the silly Church of Satan) as used in Norway is entirely misunderstood. Their beliefs are like:

Satan as represented in the bible is only evil because he is without God, he doesn't do anything that anyone would deem evil, he doesn't even kill anyone which can't be said of God...

Satan is a representation of man in raw, animal form, nothing more. He is not some god like entity, he is just an idea or a template of what man is like without god.

Satanism does not specifically encourage the burning of churches or the destruction of Christianity, it just encourages freedom of man to do what he wants and not to follow orders from a government/religious leader which is why it is represented as evil by christianity because all they want to do is control people.

You're either a sheep brainlessly following the flock before you, or a goat who has a free will, and I'd rather be a goat.

On a sidenote, I'm not asking whether these arsons were righteous, but if the church burnings were at least expected after centuries of maiming the old pagan culture. I still think they had it coming.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/6/2014 4:53:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 2:07:02 PM, Kvitrafn wrote:
"Musicians and fans of the Norwegian black metal scene took part in over 50 arsons of Christian churches from 1992 to 1996. Some of the buildings were hundreds of years old, and widely regarded as important historical landmarks. One of the first and most notable was Norway's Fantoft stave church, which the police believed was burnt by Varg Vikernes. In May 1994, he was found guilty for the burnings of Holmenkollen Chapel, Skjold Church and "sane Church. To coincide with the release of Mayhem's De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, Vikernes and Euronymous had allegedly plotted to blow up Nidaros Cathedral, which appears on the album cover. Euronymous's murder in August 1993 put an end to this plan and stalled the album's release. The musicians Samoth, Faust and Jorn Inge Tunsberg were also convicted for church arsons.

Many of those convicted for the church burnings have said that their actions were a symbolic "retaliation" against Christianity in Norway. According to Mayhem drummer Hellhammer, he had urged the others to focus their attacks on mosques and Hindu temples instead. Today, opinions on the church burnings differ within the black metal community. Guitarist Infernus and former vocalist Gaahl of the band Gorgoroth have praised the church burnings in interviews, with the latter saying "there should have been more of them, and there will be more of them"."


The Christian church throughout history has made an effort to destroy, maim and vanquish any sign of Europe's pagan roots and beliefs. The religion itself came by bloodshed, a great contradiction and irony seeing they preach 'peace'. I once wrote an essay on how the Netherlands went through ages of resistance before they finally were officially conquered by Christian forces. It made me see how brutal this "all-loving" religion is.

The church arsons in the early 90s in Norway, did they have it coming? Debate!

Well, when complete douches paint billions of people as slave raping murderers, who are not doing that stuff, and then completely ignore jesus to pain Christinaity as the source of evil in humanity in a wanton display of prejudice, do you think there are consequences to that type of behavior?

Tell me, when hate groups spend decades preaching how evil Jews are (I mean they are religious after all) are we really surprised when one of them attacks a Jewish community in Kansas?

Are we at all surprised that a couple of the douches that bought this nincompoopery actuially though they were battling evil in their mentally delusional and irrational state by attacking churches?

While atheists start discussions like this to further justify ACTUAL illegal crimes and encourage more of them?

Oh yeah, it was inevitable - but the fault for that lies squarely with the atheists who miseducated and indoctrinated them with false narratives and arroagnce.

The blame the victim mentality of atheism is ... well, as I said atheists, behavior like this, clearly irrational and deliberately insighting volence, will lead to a backlash.

You will have no one to blame but yourself. Period.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/6/2014 6:22:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:42:38 AM, Kvitrafn wrote:
First of all, you should never trust anything reported by the media. Their first priority is to spread propaganda, their second priority is to make money. They never really care if they tell the truth or not.

I don't and I didn't lol, that was all from wiki, from the link I provided.

In many interviews there is specifically stated that the arsonists were NOT Satanists but that that was just a label put on them by the media to draw attention. They were against Christianity and what it has done to Europe. Most of those churches, as I mentioned earlier, were build on top of a pagan sacred site.

The ideology of this so-called Satanism, which term Vikernes loathes (and I do not mean the silly Church of Satan) as used in Norway is entirely misunderstood. Their beliefs are like:

Satan as represented in the bible is only evil because he is without God, he doesn't do anything that anyone would deem evil, he doesn't even kill anyone which can't be said of God...

Satan is a representation of man in raw, animal form, nothing more. He is not some god like entity, he is just an idea or a template of what man is like without god.

Satanism does not specifically encourage the burning of churches or the destruction of Christianity, it just encourages freedom of man to do what he wants and not to follow orders from a government/religious leader which is why it is represented as evil by christianity because all they want to do is control people.

You're either a sheep brainlessly following the flock before you, or a goat who has a free will, and I'd rather be a goat.

Yeah that's a typical assertion, hope you're proud of that one. Now go follow your satanist flock and listen to some more lies about how Satan's the good guy.

On a sidenote, I'm not asking whether these arsons were righteous, but if the church burnings were at least expected after centuries of maiming the old pagan culture. I still think they had it coming.
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/6/2014 7:36:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
During war and political agendas governing affairs mostly never apply, laws and moral come second to orders and execution when any group of people go to war.
For example in the US there are laws prohibiting us from killing or perpatratrating any violent behavior at all really. However in times of war a soldier must do the very things the laws prohibits and of course, that's how war is. This applies to everyone not just Christians. Christianity is not the only religion that has been involved in war, we all war, it's just fact of life there aint no pointing fingers. Because in reality the very laws, commandments and principles of both the NT for Christians and OT for the Jews strictly prohibiting murder, stealing, lying, hating ect. ect.... I shouldn't have to post scriptures here it should be obvious. As a Christian, any law and commandment I break I'm going to be held accountable. If my number one command is to love, then everything that follows that should be good there is no law I am breaking by just simply doing that.

What religious countries or any countries do in war is beyond my control, but the Christian tenet strictly prohibits any harm to my fellow neighbor. I think it's more appropriate to judge Christianity based on what the NT teaches, rather than what's happened in history and instances of war because religious tenets fly out the window, but all civilizations are guilty of this not just ones that hold Christian beliefs.

So why is there so much anger and hostility among Satanists and the Norwegian black metal scene towards Christianity?? What is it about Christian teachings that offend you? Why focus all the attention on us? What is it about Jesus that all of them must mock??? Take a good look at the images of the link I provided, it's disgusting, makes my stomach churn lol.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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6/6/2014 8:29:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:53:11 AM, neutral wrote:
Well, when complete douches paint billions of people as slave raping murderers,

Evidence of this please?
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/6/2014 10:03:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 8:29:03 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/6/2014 4:53:11 AM, neutral wrote:
Well, when complete douches paint billions of people as slave raping murderers,

Evidence of this please?

You.
Kvitrafn
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6/6/2014 10:13:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
It's the typical we-know-it-all-better behaviour of the Christians you're perfectly displaying right now with your own mockery. And what the Christians did to Europe was not a matter of warfare, it was a holocaust and butchery of everything that was non-believing in their eyes. Do you have any idea how Christianity came to Europe? Christians have no respect for our culture, they demolish our graves and holy sites, they beheaded, crucified, burned, tortured, quartered and all other things ten times more stomach-churning than the provocatively dressed men in the pictures you provided. They have no respect for our culture, so why should we respect theirs? A church arson is nothing compared to what the church did to Europe. Just because it happened a couple hundred years ago does not mean we can pretend it has not happened.

How can you even belief in this faith, knowing, if you're a European or of European descent, that you great great (etc) grandparents were forced to believe this Arab brainwashery until their children started to genuinely believe it over generations? Pure indoctrination.

According to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article II, genocide is:

"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Christianity = genocide. The church arsons should be done more often to show the pagan, free spirit has not been destroyed by these facists.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/6/2014 10:16:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 7:36:24 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
During war and political agendas governing affairs mostly never apply, laws and moral come second to orders and execution when any group of people go to war.
For example in the US there are laws prohibiting us from killing or perpatratrating any violent behavior at all really. However in times of war a soldier must do the very things the laws prohibits and of course, that's how war is. This applies to everyone not just Christians. Christianity is not the only religion that has been involved in war, we all war, it's just fact of life there aint no pointing fingers. Because in reality the very laws, commandments and principles of both the NT for Christians and OT for the Jews strictly prohibiting murder, stealing, lying, hating ect. ect.... I shouldn't have to post scriptures here it should be obvious. As a Christian, any law and commandment I break I'm going to be held accountable. If my number one command is to love, then everything that follows that should be good there is no law I am breaking by just simply doing that.

What religious countries or any countries do in war is beyond my control, but the Christian tenet strictly prohibits any harm to my fellow neighbor. I think it's more appropriate to judge Christianity based on what the NT teaches, rather than what's happened in history and instances of war because religious tenets fly out the window, but all civilizations are guilty of this not just ones that hold Christian beliefs.

So why is there so much anger and hostility among Satanists and the Norwegian black metal scene towards Christianity?? What is it about Christian teachings that offend you? Why focus all the attention on us? What is it about Jesus that all of them must mock??? Take a good look at the images of the link I provided, it's disgusting, makes my stomach churn lol.

I disagree.

Its not that I think some moral conditions stop applying - like killing. Even in war however, this applies only in actual instances of battle. The rest of the time? Morality matters far more than you think.

Curious, but atheists don't ever really examine what happens when you go to war, and are happy to pin blame on ... well, its actually about finger pointing. As if to say, "I... as in me! ... am a good person because I don;t support rape!" In reality, such a person is saying, "I am a moron because I need to say this out loud! And an even bigger moron because I think people who are clearly not rapists are rapists based on their faith choice ... which is bigotry ... but that is why I am such a good person and all!"

I wonder why they never bring up Japanese conduct during WWII? The Crusades are a thousand years old. Yet 60 years ago, Japanese Soldiers were subjugating the countryside through rape torture, beheadings ... there was actually a competition at one point, in the Japanese Press, about two officers to see who could chop off the most heads ... it ended somewhere around a hundred a piece. People bulldozed and buried alive ... set on fire ... disembowled and left for dead ... forces to kill their own parents before being killed themselves.

That conduct not only sewed indiscipline and cruelty in the ranks, it kept the Chinese in active resistance throughout the war. Its left a deep and binding memory as a result. Moral conduct in war matters. Killing starts and stops in battle.

Atheists never mention it. Yet they would have us believe that they are moved by ... atrocities in the Crusades? Its just a bunch of propaganda.
matt.mcguire88
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6/6/2014 10:41:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 10:13:07 AM, Kvitrafn wrote:
It's the typical we-know-it-all-better behaviour of the Christians you're perfectly displaying right now with your own mockery. And what the Christians did to Europe was not a matter of warfare, it was a holocaust and butchery of everything that was non-believing in their eyes. Do you have any idea how Christianity came to Europe? Christians have no respect for our culture, they demolish our graves and holy sites, they beheaded, crucified, burned, tortured, quartered and all other things ten times more stomach-churning than the provocatively dressed men in the pictures you provided. They have no respect for our culture, so why should we respect theirs? A church arson is nothing compared to what the church did to Europe. Just because it happened a couple hundred years ago does not mean we can pretend it has not happened.

No not at all. I'm simply defending my views here don't get paranoid. I'm no better than you or any thing like that, that useless talk.

How can you even belief in this faith, knowing, if you're a European or of European descent, that you great great (etc) grandparents were forced to believe this Arab brainwashery until their children started to genuinely believe it over generations? Pure indoctrination.

According to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article II, genocide is:

"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

You never addressed any of my posts.
Show me using the NT Christian tenets where ANY of the above is justified. I don't care what anybody did now or in the past. Use scripture to reinforce your claim or concede the point. I used the same tactic you used to show you what a bunch of evil, barbaric, and mentally sick group of hypocritical thugs the perpetrators are.
Now that we both can do that address my post and answer the questions. We've already established that your mad at Christians and you don't like them, but that is irrelevant.


Christianity = genocide. The church arsons should be done more often to show the pagan, free spirit has not been destroyed by these facists.

No it doesn't, if it did I wouldn't abide by it's principles.
matt.mcguire88
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6/6/2014 10:51:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 10:16:01 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/6/2014 7:36:24 AM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
During war and political agendas governing affairs mostly never apply, laws and moral come second to orders and execution when any group of people go to war.
For example in the US there are laws prohibiting us from killing or perpatratrating any violent behavior at all really. However in times of war a soldier must do the very things the laws prohibits and of course, that's how war is. This applies to everyone not just Christians. Christianity is not the only religion that has been involved in war, we all war, it's just fact of life there aint no pointing fingers. Because in reality the very laws, commandments and principles of both the NT for Christians and OT for the Jews strictly prohibiting murder, stealing, lying, hating ect. ect.... I shouldn't have to post scriptures here it should be obvious. As a Christian, any law and commandment I break I'm going to be held accountable. If my number one command is to love, then everything that follows that should be good there is no law I am breaking by just simply doing that.

What religious countries or any countries do in war is beyond my control, but the Christian tenet strictly prohibits any harm to my fellow neighbor. I think it's more appropriate to judge Christianity based on what the NT teaches, rather than what's happened in history and instances of war because religious tenets fly out the window, but all civilizations are guilty of this not just ones that hold Christian beliefs.

So why is there so much anger and hostility among Satanists and the Norwegian black metal scene towards Christianity?? What is it about Christian teachings that offend you? Why focus all the attention on us? What is it about Jesus that all of them must mock??? Take a good look at the images of the link I provided, it's disgusting, makes my stomach churn lol.

I disagree.

Its not that I think some moral conditions stop applying - like killing. Even in war however, this applies only in actual instances of battle. The rest of the time? Morality matters far more than you think.

Fair enough.

Curious, but atheists don't ever really examine what happens when you go to war, and are happy to pin blame on ... well, its actually about finger pointing. As if to say, "I... as in me! ... am a good person because I don;t support rape!" In reality, such a person is saying, "I am a moron because I need to say this out loud! And an even bigger moron because I think people who are clearly not rapists are rapists based on their faith choice ... which is bigotry ... but that is why I am such a good person and all!"

I wonder why they never bring up Japanese conduct during WWII? The Crusades are a thousand years old. Yet 60 years ago, Japanese Soldiers were subjugating the countryside through rape torture, beheadings ... there was actually a competition at one point, in the Japanese Press, about two officers to see who could chop off the most heads ... it ended somewhere around a hundred a piece. People bulldozed and buried alive ... set on fire ... disembowled and left for dead ... forces to kill their own parents before being killed themselves.

That conduct not only sewed indiscipline and cruelty in the ranks, it kept the Chinese in active resistance throughout the war. Its left a deep and binding memory as a result. Moral conduct in war matters. Killing starts and stops in battle.

Atheists never mention it. Yet they would have us believe that they are moved by ... atrocities in the Crusades? Its just a bunch of propaganda.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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6/6/2014 11:05:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/5/2014 7:53:02 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Suuuuurrre, let's let the "Norwegian Black Metal scene" run the show.
https://www.google.com...

"when it was revealed that its members had been responsible for the murders and a wave of church burnings in Norway. In interviews, they voiced extreme anti-Christian and misanthropic views, presenting themselves as Devil worshippers who wanted to spread hatred, sorrow and evil. It was identified by some as a cult: "

"On 8 April 1991, Mayhem vocalist Per Yngve Ohlin (who called himself 'Dead') committed suicide while alone in a house shared by the band.[8][9] Fellow musicians described Dead as odd, introverted and depressed. Before going onstage he went to great lengths to make himself look like a corpse and would cut his arms while singing.[3][10]

He was found with slit wrists, a slit throat and a shotgun wound to the head, by Mayhem guitarist Euronymous. Dead's suicide note apologized for firing the weapon indoors and ended: "Excuse all the blood".[9][11] Before calling the police, Euronymous allegedly went to a nearby shop and bought a disposable camera with which he photographed the body, after re-arranging some items.[12] One of these photographs was later used as the cover of a bootleg live album: Dawn of the Black Hearts. In time, rumors spread that Euronymous had made a stew with bits of Dead's brain and had made necklaces with bits of his skull."

"The Norwegian black metal scene was bitterly opposed to Christianity and organized religion as a whole. In interviews during the early 1990s, Euronymous and other members of the scene presented themselves as misanthropic Devil worshippers[33] who wanted to spread hatred, sorrow and evil. They attacked the Church of Satan for being too "humane".[34] The theistic Satanism they espoused was an inversion of Christianity.[35] Euronymous was the key figure behind this ideology.[22][29] He professed to be in favor of totalitarianism and against individualism, compassion, peace, happiness and fun.[36] When asked why such statements were made to the press, Ihsahn of Emperor said: "I think that was very much to create fear among people".

"On 21 August 1992, B"rd 'Faust' Eithun stabbed to death Magne Andreassen, a gay man, in a forest just outside Lillehammer.[5] Faust was visiting his family there.[64] He went to a pub and had a drink, but "the atmosphere didn't suit him, so he decided to head home".[64] According to Faust, while walking in the Olympic park, "this man approached me " he was obviously drunk and obviously a faggot [...] it was obvious that he wanted to have some contact. Then he asked me if we could [...] go up to the woods. So I agreed, because already then I had decided that I wanted to kill him, which was very weird because I'm not like this".[65] Faust carried a knife because, as he explained: "It's better to have a knife you don't need than to not have one when you need it".[64] Once in the woods, Faust stabbed Andreassen 37[66] times and then kicked him in the head repeatedly as he lay on the ground."

"In early 1993, animosity arose between Euronymous and Vikernes, and between Euronymous and the Swedish black metal scene.[61]

On the night of 10 August 1993, Vikernes and Snorre 'Blackthorn' Ruch drove from Bergen to Euronymous's apartment at T"yengata[9] (English: T"yen Street) in Oslo. Upon their arrival a confrontation began and Vikernes fatally stabbed Euronymous. His body was found on the stairs outside the apartment with 23 cut wounds " two to the head, five to the neck, and sixteen to the back.[78] At first, many blamed Swedish black metalers for the murder."

"There was a strong rivalry between Norwegian black metal and Swedish death metal scenes. Fenriz and Tchort have noted that Norwegian black metal musicians had become "fed up with the whole death metal scene"[86] and that "death metal was very uncool in Oslo" at the time.[8] A number of times, Euronymous sent death threats to some of the more 'mainstream' death metal groups in Europe.[8] Allegedly, a group of Norwegian black metal fans even plotted to kidnap and murder certain Swedish death metal musicians."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, sounds like a good idea....

Sounds like they are some really sane folks. What the heck is "Norwegian Black Metal" anyway? I've always liked Sinatra.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/6/2014 11:31:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 11:05:16 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/5/2014 7:53:02 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
Suuuuurrre, let's let the "Norwegian Black Metal scene" run the show.
https://www.google.com...

"when it was revealed that its members had been responsible for the murders and a wave of church burnings in Norway. In interviews, they voiced extreme anti-Christian and misanthropic views, presenting themselves as Devil worshippers who wanted to spread hatred, sorrow and evil. It was identified by some as a cult: "

"On 8 April 1991, Mayhem vocalist Per Yngve Ohlin (who called himself 'Dead') committed suicide while alone in a house shared by the band.[8][9] Fellow musicians described Dead as odd, introverted and depressed. Before going onstage he went to great lengths to make himself look like a corpse and would cut his arms while singing.[3][10]

He was found with slit wrists, a slit throat and a shotgun wound to the head, by Mayhem guitarist Euronymous. Dead's suicide note apologized for firing the weapon indoors and ended: "Excuse all the blood".[9][11] Before calling the police, Euronymous allegedly went to a nearby shop and bought a disposable camera with which he photographed the body, after re-arranging some items.[12] One of these photographs was later used as the cover of a bootleg live album: Dawn of the Black Hearts. In time, rumors spread that Euronymous had made a stew with bits of Dead's brain and had made necklaces with bits of his skull."

"The Norwegian black metal scene was bitterly opposed to Christianity and organized religion as a whole. In interviews during the early 1990s, Euronymous and other members of the scene presented themselves as misanthropic Devil worshippers[33] who wanted to spread hatred, sorrow and evil. They attacked the Church of Satan for being too "humane".[34] The theistic Satanism they espoused was an inversion of Christianity.[35] Euronymous was the key figure behind this ideology.[22][29] He professed to be in favor of totalitarianism and against individualism, compassion, peace, happiness and fun.[36] When asked why such statements were made to the press, Ihsahn of Emperor said: "I think that was very much to create fear among people".

"On 21 August 1992, B"rd 'Faust' Eithun stabbed to death Magne Andreassen, a gay man, in a forest just outside Lillehammer.[5] Faust was visiting his family there.[64] He went to a pub and had a drink, but "the atmosphere didn't suit him, so he decided to head home".[64] According to Faust, while walking in the Olympic park, "this man approached me " he was obviously drunk and obviously a faggot [...] it was obvious that he wanted to have some contact. Then he asked me if we could [...] go up to the woods. So I agreed, because already then I had decided that I wanted to kill him, which was very weird because I'm not like this".[65] Faust carried a knife because, as he explained: "It's better to have a knife you don't need than to not have one when you need it".[64] Once in the woods, Faust stabbed Andreassen 37[66] times and then kicked him in the head repeatedly as he lay on the ground."

"In early 1993, animosity arose between Euronymous and Vikernes, and between Euronymous and the Swedish black metal scene.[61]

On the night of 10 August 1993, Vikernes and Snorre 'Blackthorn' Ruch drove from Bergen to Euronymous's apartment at T"yengata[9] (English: T"yen Street) in Oslo. Upon their arrival a confrontation began and Vikernes fatally stabbed Euronymous. His body was found on the stairs outside the apartment with 23 cut wounds " two to the head, five to the neck, and sixteen to the back.[78] At first, many blamed Swedish black metalers for the murder."

"There was a strong rivalry between Norwegian black metal and Swedish death metal scenes. Fenriz and Tchort have noted that Norwegian black metal musicians had become "fed up with the whole death metal scene"[86] and that "death metal was very uncool in Oslo" at the time.[8] A number of times, Euronymous sent death threats to some of the more 'mainstream' death metal groups in Europe.[8] Allegedly, a group of Norwegian black metal fans even plotted to kidnap and murder certain Swedish death metal musicians."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Yeah, sounds like a good idea....

Sounds like they are some really sane folks. What the heck is "Norwegian Black Metal" anyway? I've always liked Sinatra.

It's kinda scary lol, it's basically death metal, the majority is heavy music with screaming about hating Jesus among other lyrics. Pentagrams and bloodbaths, I enjoy wailing on the guitar but it's not my thing.
matt.mcguire88
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6/7/2014 8:00:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/6/2014 4:42:38 AM, Kvitrafn wrote:
First of all, you should never trust anything reported by the media. Their first priority is to spread propaganda, their second priority is to make money. They never really care if they tell the truth or not.

In many interviews there is specifically stated that the arsonists were NOT Satanists but that that was just a label put on them by the media to draw attention. They were against Christianity and what it has done to Europe. Most of those churches, as I mentioned earlier, were build on top of a pagan sacred site.

The ideology of this so-called Satanism, which term Vikernes loathes (and I do not mean the silly Church of Satan) as used in Norway is entirely misunderstood. Their beliefs are like:

Satan as represented in the bible is only evil because he is without God, he doesn't do anything that anyone would deem evil, he doesn't even kill anyone which can't be said of God...

Satan is a representation of man in raw, animal form, nothing more. He is not some god like entity, he is just an idea or a template of what man is like without god.

Satanism does not specifically encourage the burning of churches or the destruction of Christianity, it just encourages freedom of man to do what he wants and not to follow orders from a government/religious leader which is why it is represented as evil by christianity because all they want to do is control people.

You're either a sheep brainlessly following the flock before you, or a goat who has a free will, and I'd rather be a goat.

On a sidenote, I'm not asking whether these arsons were righteous, but if the church burnings were at least expected after centuries of maiming the old pagan culture. I still think they had it coming.

Okay, I can agree with that. The church burnings were relatively harmless that's not really my concern. I would like you to understand Christian teachings, I think you would benefit by picking it up and at least read the New Test.... Not that you haven't but I can tell just by talking with you that you are listening too much lol. I challenge you to read through the Gospels and through the epistles and tell me where anything that you mentioned about Christianity is true or relevant..........