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Can You Prove your God Wrong?

bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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6/10/2014 8:56:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Does god know every choice you will make before he creates you?

If those choices put you in heaven, then why doesn't he just create you in heaven.
After all, it's your free will choices that determine that you go to heaven and god knows what those choices are.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Iredia
Posts: 1,608
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6/10/2014 10:28:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/10/2014 8:56:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does god know every choice you will make before he creates you?

If those choices put you in heaven, then why doesn't he just create you in heaven.
After all, it's your free will choices that determine that you go to heaven and god knows what those choices are.

For Chrissakes quit being an atheist troll, already ?
Porn babes be distracting me. Dudes be stealing me stuff. I'm all about the cash from now. I'm not playing Jesus anymore.
Kostakv
Posts: 28
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6/11/2014 2:14:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/10/2014 10:28:49 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 6/10/2014 8:56:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does god know every choice you will make before he creates you?

If those choices put you in heaven, then why doesn't he just create you in heaven.
After all, it's your free will choices that determine that you go to heaven and god knows what those choices are.

For Chrissakes quit being an atheist troll, already ?

How is that a troll?

You're just too timid to answer this because you don't have an answer to this perfectly logical question... It's like this, if God knows everything that means he knows Future,present,past... If before he created you, he knows that when you're 40 years old you will eat a cookie. But before you were born there was a rule saying, if you eat a cookie you auto go to hell, So by him creating you that means you're bound to eat that cookie because God knows you will eat it and go to hell... Sounds like God is the true troll don't you think?
Kostakv
Posts: 28
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6/11/2014 2:19:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

here's the problem... since you can't get it.

God knows everything, therefor he knows your character even before you are born... So basically if you say God knows everything, then that means God knew that Hitler would kill 7 million people even before Hitler knew, That's the problem my friend... If you want to say God knows everything, then I say God is a passive bystander doing nothing for human kind, if you wanna say God loves us? then put us in heaven to begin with... rather than him just sitting up there telling himself "OH! see I knew that bob would kill ryan at 6:03 on a Saturday"
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/11/2014 2:58:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/11/2014 2:19:06 PM, Kostakv wrote:
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

here's the problem... since you can't get it.


Lol your arguments are nowhere near strong enough to merit your level of condescension.

God knows everything, therefor he knows your character even before you are born...

Sure, if you want to ignore open theism...

basically if you say God knows everything, then that means God knew that Hitler would kill 7 million people even before Hitler knew,

See above.

That's the problem my friend... If you want to say God knows everything, then I say God is a passive bystander doing nothing for human kind,

I'd say your wrong.

if you wanna say God loves us? then put us in heaven to begin with...

Even if God knows what sort of person you will become you still have to become that person...which requires a process. Not creating a person ex nihilo with all the virtues. This is basic soul making theodicy stuff.

rather than him just sitting up there telling himself "OH! see I knew that bob would kill ryan at 6:03 on a Saturday"
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/11/2014 11:49:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/11/2014 2:58:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:19:06 PM, Kostakv wrote:
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

here's the problem... since you can't get it.


Lol your arguments are nowhere near strong enough to merit your level of condescension.

God knows everything, therefor he knows your character even before you are born...

Sure, if you want to ignore open theism...

basically if you say God knows everything, then that means God knew that Hitler would kill 7 million people even before Hitler knew,

See above.

That's the problem my friend... If you want to say God knows everything, then I say God is a passive bystander doing nothing for human kind,

I'd say your wrong.

if you wanna say God loves us? then put us in heaven to begin with...

Even if God knows what sort of person you will become you still have to become that person...which requires a process. Not creating a person ex nihilo with all the virtues. This is basic soul making theodicy stuff.


I think the point is, whats the point?

If you knew your invention would fail, you had absolute knowledge that your invention would not and could not work, would you still spend millions of dollars and hours of work, creating it? Of course not, and we would call someone who did that, an idiot.

But with God, it goes beyond that. It goes beyond the realm of stupidity, and into the realm of cruelty. Would you ever devise a scenario where your daughter would be raped, just so that she can have a chance to rise above it and become a stronger person? Of course not. And thats with a pang of uncertainty, i.e. you dont know if she will or wont rise above it. But if you knew that she wouldnt, and you still went through with it? That would be immoral.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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6/12/2014 12:22:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/11/2014 11:49:58 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:58:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:19:06 PM, Kostakv wrote:
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

here's the problem... since you can't get it.


Lol your arguments are nowhere near strong enough to merit your level of condescension.

God knows everything, therefor he knows your character even before you are born...

Sure, if you want to ignore open theism...

basically if you say God knows everything, then that means God knew that Hitler would kill 7 million people even before Hitler knew,

See above.

That's the problem my friend... If you want to say God knows everything, then I say God is a passive bystander doing nothing for human kind,

I'd say your wrong.

if you wanna say God loves us? then put us in heaven to begin with...

Even if God knows what sort of person you will become you still have to become that person...which requires a process. Not creating a person ex nihilo with all the virtues. This is basic soul making theodicy stuff.


I think the point is, whats the point?

If you knew your invention would fail, you had absolute knowledge that your invention would not and could not work, would you still spend millions of dollars and hours of work, creating it? Of course not, and we would call someone who did that, an idiot.

But with God, it goes beyond that. It goes beyond the realm of stupidity, and into the realm of cruelty. Would you ever devise a scenario where your daughter would be raped, just so that she can have a chance to rise above it and become a stronger person? Of course not. And thats with a pang of uncertainty, i.e. you dont know if she will or wont rise above it. But if you knew that she wouldnt, and you still went through with it? That would be immoral.

You Atheist are so smart! If gawd was perfect he would have made robots that just did what they were told. No robot would rape another robot and they all would be programed to automatically love God.

No wonder God doesn't exist because we are not robots.

Oh but wait. Atheist say we have no free will, that we are just doing what our genes and environment tell us to do. That our consciousness and minds are just a neurological trick of wires misfiring. So we are robots.

Oh that's why Atheist are so smart. It doesn't matter what the truth is. It does not matter what the hypothetical argument is as long as the answer is "no God".

Brilliant.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/12/2014 12:40:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 12:22:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/11/2014 11:49:58 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:58:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:19:06 PM, Kostakv wrote:
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

here's the problem... since you can't get it.


Lol your arguments are nowhere near strong enough to merit your level of condescension.

God knows everything, therefor he knows your character even before you are born...

Sure, if you want to ignore open theism...

basically if you say God knows everything, then that means God knew that Hitler would kill 7 million people even before Hitler knew,

See above.

That's the problem my friend... If you want to say God knows everything, then I say God is a passive bystander doing nothing for human kind,

I'd say your wrong.

if you wanna say God loves us? then put us in heaven to begin with...

Even if God knows what sort of person you will become you still have to become that person...which requires a process. Not creating a person ex nihilo with all the virtues. This is basic soul making theodicy stuff.


I think the point is, whats the point?

If you knew your invention would fail, you had absolute knowledge that your invention would not and could not work, would you still spend millions of dollars and hours of work, creating it? Of course not, and we would call someone who did that, an idiot.

But with God, it goes beyond that. It goes beyond the realm of stupidity, and into the realm of cruelty. Would you ever devise a scenario where your daughter would be raped, just so that she can have a chance to rise above it and become a stronger person? Of course not. And thats with a pang of uncertainty, i.e. you dont know if she will or wont rise above it. But if you knew that she wouldnt, and you still went through with it? That would be immoral.

You Atheist are so smart! If gawd was perfect he would have made robots that just did what they were told. No robot would rape another robot and they all would be programed to automatically love God.

No wonder God doesn't exist because we are not robots.

And yet the christian answer to this is that God DOES want robots. Ignoring logic, reason, rationality for blind, pure faith, and to follow orders unquestioningly, blindly, is exactly what a robot does. Funny.

Oh but wait. Atheist say we have no free will, that we are just doing what our genes and environment tell us to do. That our consciousness and minds are just a neurological trick of wires misfiring. So we are robots.

Since we are the sum of our experiences, and we can have different experiences that change our beliefs and actions, not really, no, we are not robots.

Oh that's why Atheist are so smart. It doesn't matter what the truth is. It does not matter what the hypothetical argument is as long as the answer is "no God".

Brilliant.

Okay.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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6/12/2014 12:44:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/10/2014 10:28:49 AM, Iredia wrote:
At 6/10/2014 8:56:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
Does god know every choice you will make before he creates you?

If those choices put you in heaven, then why doesn't he just create you in heaven.
After all, it's your free will choices that determine that you go to heaven and god knows what those choices are.

For Chrissakes quit being an atheist troll, already ?

My questions too scary for you? Bad luck.
bulproof
Posts: 25,296
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6/12/2014 12:45:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

Just bang ya straight into heaven, no character needed there. Only robots allowed allegedly.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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6/12/2014 12:55:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 12:40:50 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/12/2014 12:22:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/11/2014 11:49:58 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:58:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:19:06 PM, Kostakv wrote:
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

here's the problem... since you can't get it.


Lol your arguments are nowhere near strong enough to merit your level of condescension.

God knows everything, therefor he knows your character even before you are born...

Sure, if you want to ignore open theism...

basically if you say God knows everything, then that means God knew that Hitler would kill 7 million people even before Hitler knew,

See above.

That's the problem my friend... If you want to say God knows everything, then I say God is a passive bystander doing nothing for human kind,

I'd say your wrong.

if you wanna say God loves us? then put us in heaven to begin with...

Even if God knows what sort of person you will become you still have to become that person...which requires a process. Not creating a person ex nihilo with all the virtues. This is basic soul making theodicy stuff.


I think the point is, whats the point?

If you knew your invention would fail, you had absolute knowledge that your invention would not and could not work, would you still spend millions of dollars and hours of work, creating it? Of course not, and we would call someone who did that, an idiot.

But with God, it goes beyond that. It goes beyond the realm of stupidity, and into the realm of cruelty. Would you ever devise a scenario where your daughter would be raped, just so that she can have a chance to rise above it and become a stronger person? Of course not. And thats with a pang of uncertainty, i.e. you dont know if she will or wont rise above it. But if you knew that she wouldnt, and you still went through with it? That would be immoral.

You Atheist are so smart! If gawd was perfect he would have made robots that just did what they were told. No robot would rape another robot and they all would be programed to automatically love God.

No wonder God doesn't exist because we are not robots.

And yet the christian answer to this is that God DOES want robots. Ignoring logic, reason, rationality for blind, pure faith, and to follow orders unquestioningly, blindly, is exactly what a robot does. Funny.


Actually many religious text, and the Bible say to test everything. And to use our minds of emotional appeals.

Oh but wait. Atheist say we have no free will, that we are just doing what our genes and environment tell us to do. That our consciousness and minds are just a neurological trick of wires misfiring. So we are robots.

Since we are the sum of our experiences, and we can have different experiences that change our beliefs and actions, not really, no, we are not robots.


All you did was make a case for different programing in robots.

Oh that's why Atheist are so smart. It doesn't matter what the truth is. It does not matter what the hypothetical argument is as long as the answer is "no God".

Brilliant.

Okay.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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6/12/2014 1:24:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 12:55:58 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/12/2014 12:40:50 AM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/12/2014 12:22:27 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/11/2014 11:49:58 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:58:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/11/2014 2:19:06 PM, Kostakv wrote:
At 6/10/2014 9:17:48 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
Cuz those choices are important and formative for the development of YOUR character? I don't see what the problem is

here's the problem... since you can't get it.


Lol your arguments are nowhere near strong enough to merit your level of condescension.

God knows everything, therefor he knows your character even before you are born...

Sure, if you want to ignore open theism...

basically if you say God knows everything, then that means God knew that Hitler would kill 7 million people even before Hitler knew,

See above.

That's the problem my friend... If you want to say God knows everything, then I say God is a passive bystander doing nothing for human kind,

I'd say your wrong.

if you wanna say God loves us? then put us in heaven to begin with...

Even if God knows what sort of person you will become you still have to become that person...which requires a process. Not creating a person ex nihilo with all the virtues. This is basic soul making theodicy stuff.


I think the point is, whats the point?

If you knew your invention would fail, you had absolute knowledge that your invention would not and could not work, would you still spend millions of dollars and hours of work, creating it? Of course not, and we would call someone who did that, an idiot.

But with God, it goes beyond that. It goes beyond the realm of stupidity, and into the realm of cruelty. Would you ever devise a scenario where your daughter would be raped, just so that she can have a chance to rise above it and become a stronger person? Of course not. And thats with a pang of uncertainty, i.e. you dont know if she will or wont rise above it. But if you knew that she wouldnt, and you still went through with it? That would be immoral.

You Atheist are so smart! If gawd was perfect he would have made robots that just did what they were told. No robot would rape another robot and they all would be programed to automatically love God.

No wonder God doesn't exist because we are not robots.

And yet the christian answer to this is that God DOES want robots. Ignoring logic, reason, rationality for blind, pure faith, and to follow orders unquestioningly, blindly, is exactly what a robot does. Funny.


Actually many religious text, and the Bible say to test everything.

This contradicts what Jesus said. What was the moral of the story behind Doubting Thomas? Shouldnt Jesus have applauded Thomas for being skeptical and waiting to test out, to find evidence before he believed?

And to use our minds of emotional appeals.

You mean an appeal to emotion fallacy?

Oh but wait. Atheist say we have no free will, that we are just doing what our genes and environment tell us to do. That our consciousness and minds are just a neurological trick of wires misfiring. So we are robots.

Since we are the sum of our experiences, and we can have different experiences that change our beliefs and actions, not really, no, we are not robots.


All you did was make a case for different programing in robots.

A robot that can learn and change its views and beliefs based on its experiences? Thats quite the difference between a robot that is only programmed to follow orders, do you not agree?