Total Posts:17|Showing Posts:1-17
Jump to topic:

Atheist pet peeves...

Kostakv
Posts: 28
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 8:50:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm an atheist and I hate it when you're arguing with someone and they use these arguments...

1. They use the bible to back up what they're saying.

Response: Okay fine... use the bible to back up what you're saying but if you're going to take the bible literally then you have to believe in Unicorns because the bible mentions Unicorns a lot...

2. When I say God is dumb... and the person responds *GOSH! you're not an atheist no you're not because you said God is dumb and because you said that, that means God has to exist because something that doesn't exist can't be dumb!!!

Response: Okay I see your point... But let me ask you this... If I said Luigi from the video game can jump high.. does that mean he exists? NO that just means he's a fictional character(NOT REAL for creationists that don't know what fiction is) who happens to be able to jump high... So when I say God is dumb I'm saying he's a fictional character who happens to be dumb...

3. When they say I'm going to hell for not believing in God...

Response: Okay lets just say there is a heaven and hell... If "God" is extremely intelligent as you say he is... then would he rather someone who believes in him and does nothing at all and is a terrible person. Or would God rather take someone who is a good person and doesn't believe in him? after all God can't get mad at me for using my brain? and being a rational person asking for proof and evidence and when religion fails to provide me with anything say i'm going to hell?

4. When they say, Why do you need proof just believe :)))))

response: OKAY! At my house there is a rainbow Llama who spits out skittles and poops out frog heads. And the Llama gave me 10 rules. and the 10 rules are
1. Don't use the great rainbow Llamas name in vein.
2. Don't picture any other Llamas but ME!
3. Don't worship any other Llamas but ME!
4. Keep the Llama day holy
5. Honor thy father Llama and mother Llama
6. Do not kill Llamas!
7. Do not cheat on me with any other Llama!
8. Do not steal from Llamas
9. Do not lie to Llamas
10. Do not covet thy Llama.

Then I say.. Do you believe??????
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 9:21:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:50:02 AM, Kostakv wrote:
I'm an atheist and I hate it when you're arguing with someone and they use these arguments...

1. They use the bible to back up what they're saying.

Response: Okay fine... use the bible to back up what you're saying but if you're going to take the bible literally then you have to believe in Unicorns because the bible mentions Unicorns a lot...
Ten times, in fact, in the King James Version. But it also talks about witches, wizards, dragons, zombies, giants and makes numerous references to other gods.

2. When I say God is dumb... and the person responds *GOSH! you're not an atheist no you're not because you said God is dumb and because you said that, that means God has to exist because something that doesn't exist can't be dumb!!!

Response: Okay I see your point... But let me ask you this... If I said Luigi from the video game can jump high.. does that mean he exists? NO that just means he's a fictional character(NOT REAL for creationists that don't know what fiction is) who happens to be able to jump high... So when I say God is dumb I'm saying he's a fictional character who happens to be dumb...
Which is why it's preferable to refer to the "character of God" or "the God of the Bible", to distinguish that you are referencing the fictional character, and not asserting to the actual existence of the entity.

3. When they say I'm going to hell for not believing in God...

Response: Okay lets just say there is a heaven and hell... If "God" is extremely intelligent as you say he is... then would he rather someone who believes in him and does nothing at all and is a terrible person. Or would God rather take someone who is a good person and doesn't believe in him? after all God can't get mad at me for using my brain? and being a rational person asking for proof and evidence and when religion fails to provide me with anything say i'm going to hell?
To which they will most likely respond that you hold an inherent knowledge of God... because that's what the Bible tells them.

4. When they say, Why do you need proof just believe :)))))

response: OKAY! At my house there is a rainbow Llama who spits out skittles and poops out frog heads. And the Llama gave me 10 rules. and the 10 rules are
1. Don't use the great rainbow Llamas name in vein.
2. Don't picture any other Llamas but ME!
3. Don't worship any other Llamas but ME!
4. Keep the Llama day holy
5. Honor thy father Llama and mother Llama
6. Do not kill Llamas!
7. Do not cheat on me with any other Llama!
8. Do not steal from Llamas
9. Do not lie to Llamas
10. Do not covet thy Llama.

Then I say.. Do you believe??????

Are you under the impression that your arguments are new or unique?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Kostakv
Posts: 28
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 9:27:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 9:21:33 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:50:02 AM, Kostakv wrote:
I'm an atheist and I hate it when you're arguing with someone and they use these arguments...

1. They use the bible to back up what they're saying.

Response: Okay fine... use the bible to back up what you're saying but if you're going to take the bible literally then you have to believe in Unicorns because the bible mentions Unicorns a lot...
Ten times, in fact, in the King James Version. But it also talks about witches, wizards, dragons, zombies, giants and makes numerous references to other gods.


2. When I say God is dumb... and the person responds *GOSH! you're not an atheist no you're not because you said God is dumb and because you said that, that means God has to exist because something that doesn't exist can't be dumb!!!

Response: Okay I see your point... But let me ask you this... If I said Luigi from the video game can jump high.. does that mean he exists? NO that just means he's a fictional character(NOT REAL for creationists that don't know what fiction is) who happens to be able to jump high... So when I say God is dumb I'm saying he's a fictional character who happens to be dumb...
Which is why it's preferable to refer to the "character of God" or "the God of the Bible", to distinguish that you are referencing the fictional character, and not asserting to the actual existence of the entity.

3. When they say I'm going to hell for not believing in God...

Response: Okay lets just say there is a heaven and hell... If "God" is extremely intelligent as you say he is... then would he rather someone who believes in him and does nothing at all and is a terrible person. Or would God rather take someone who is a good person and doesn't believe in him? after all God can't get mad at me for using my brain? and being a rational person asking for proof and evidence and when religion fails to provide me with anything say i'm going to hell?
To which they will most likely respond that you hold an inherent knowledge of God... because that's what the Bible tells them.

4. When they say, Why do you need proof just believe :)))))

response: OKAY! At my house there is a rainbow Llama who spits out skittles and poops out frog heads. And the Llama gave me 10 rules. and the 10 rules are
1. Don't use the great rainbow Llamas name in vein.
2. Don't picture any other Llamas but ME!
3. Don't worship any other Llamas but ME!
4. Keep the Llama day holy
5. Honor thy father Llama and mother Llama
6. Do not kill Llamas!
7. Do not cheat on me with any other Llama!
8. Do not steal from Llamas
9. Do not lie to Llamas
10. Do not covet thy Llama.

Then I say.. Do you believe??????

Are you under the impression that your arguments are new or unique?

Not at all
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 10:11:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 9:27:39 AM, Kostakv wrote:
At 6/12/2014 9:21:33 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 6/12/2014 8:50:02 AM, Kostakv wrote:
I'm an atheist and I hate it when you're arguing with someone and they use these arguments...

1. They use the bible to back up what they're saying.

Response: Okay fine... use the bible to back up what you're saying but if you're going to take the bible literally then you have to believe in Unicorns because the bible mentions Unicorns a lot...
Ten times, in fact, in the King James Version. But it also talks about witches, wizards, dragons, zombies, giants and makes numerous references to other gods.


2. When I say God is dumb... and the person responds *GOSH! you're not an atheist no you're not because you said God is dumb and because you said that, that means God has to exist because something that doesn't exist can't be dumb!!!

Response: Okay I see your point... But let me ask you this... If I said Luigi from the video game can jump high.. does that mean he exists? NO that just means he's a fictional character(NOT REAL for creationists that don't know what fiction is) who happens to be able to jump high... So when I say God is dumb I'm saying he's a fictional character who happens to be dumb...
Which is why it's preferable to refer to the "character of God" or "the God of the Bible", to distinguish that you are referencing the fictional character, and not asserting to the actual existence of the entity.

3. When they say I'm going to hell for not believing in God...

Response: Okay lets just say there is a heaven and hell... If "God" is extremely intelligent as you say he is... then would he rather someone who believes in him and does nothing at all and is a terrible person. Or would God rather take someone who is a good person and doesn't believe in him? after all God can't get mad at me for using my brain? and being a rational person asking for proof and evidence and when religion fails to provide me with anything say i'm going to hell?
To which they will most likely respond that you hold an inherent knowledge of God... because that's what the Bible tells them.

4. When they say, Why do you need proof just believe :)))))

response: OKAY! At my house there is a rainbow Llama who spits out skittles and poops out frog heads. And the Llama gave me 10 rules. and the 10 rules are
1. Don't use the great rainbow Llamas name in vein.
2. Don't picture any other Llamas but ME!
3. Don't worship any other Llamas but ME!
4. Keep the Llama day holy
5. Honor thy father Llama and mother Llama
6. Do not kill Llamas!
7. Do not cheat on me with any other Llama!
8. Do not steal from Llamas
9. Do not lie to Llamas
10. Do not covet thy Llama.

Then I say.. Do you believe??????

Are you under the impression that your arguments are new or unique?

Not at all

Correct. The same arguments have been made and answered literally hundreds of times on here.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
neutral
Posts: 4,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 10:34:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:50:02 AM, Kostakv wrote:
I'm an atheist and I hate it when you're arguing with someone and they use these arguments...

1. They use the bible to back up what they're saying.

Response: Okay fine... use the bible to back up what you're saying but if you're going to take the bible literally then you have to believe in Unicorns because the bible mentions Unicorns a lot...

Yeah, because the Bible is a Historical record of Jesus and what he does. We also use extra-Biblical records and archeology to back up our claims specific to Jesus. We also use science, philosophy, history, ethics, etc. to further buttress the case.

Atheists very often use the Bible, of rather misrepresentations of it, to justify their positions, correct?


2. When I say God is dumb... and the person responds *GOSH! you're not an atheist no you're not because you said God is dumb and because you said that, that means God has to exist because something that doesn't exist can't be dumb!!!

Response: Okay I see your point... But let me ask you this... If I said Luigi from the video game can jump high.. does that mean he exists? NO that just means he's a fictional character(NOT REAL for creationists that don't know what fiction is) who happens to be able to jump high... So when I say God is dumb I'm saying he's a fictional character who happens to be dumb...

Actually the bigger problem there is beginning with deliberate disrespect to someone else's choice.

If someone started out by saying atheists were dumb, and somehow comported that to nonexistent claims being dumb ... I doubt very seriously that this would be considered a valid criticism of atheism.


3. When they say I'm going to hell for not believing in God...

Response: Okay lets just say there is a heaven and hell... If "God" is extremely intelligent as you say he is... then would he rather someone who believes in him and does nothing at all and is a terrible person. Or would God rather take someone who is a good person and doesn't believe in him? after all God can't get mad at me for using my brain? and being a rational person asking for proof and evidence and when religion fails to provide me with anything say i'm going to hell?

And if someone threatened to hit you in the head with an invisible football that only they could feel or see? Would that bother you? Hell does not exist for you, so this entire line of reasoning has no meaning to you at all, correct?

Yet I see quite a few atheists bringing up this point, whereas, on record, there are very few, if indeed any, threats of atheists going to hell in observation on this forum (just as there are few indeed using the argumentation you clam either).


4. When they say, Why do you need proof just believe :)))))

response: OKAY! At my house there is a rainbow Llama who spits out skittles and poops out frog heads. And the Llama gave me 10 rules. and the 10 rules are
1. Don't use the great rainbow Llamas name in vein.
2. Don't picture any other Llamas but ME!
3. Don't worship any other Llamas but ME!
4. Keep the Llama day holy
5. Honor thy father Llama and mother Llama
6. Do not kill Llamas!
7. Do not cheat on me with any other Llama!
8. Do not steal from Llamas
9. Do not lie to Llamas
10. Do not covet thy Llama.

Again, this is fallacious, anecdotal, and frankly another needless insulting misportrayal of religion and its thinking. Missionaries, despite popular misconception, actually get quite a bit of training, which you can find online BTW, and none of what they are taught is even close to what you represent.


Then I say.. Do you believe??????

Thus the question arises once again, how do so many atheists have a position on religion that is, at best, aimed at extremes, and completely misses the entire field of Apologetics? The entire field of Scholarship of archeology, history, theology, and ethics?

Mere Christianity is perhaps the ONE volume of Apologetics that atheists are largely familiar with, and does that volume, and argument from morality, use any of the argumentation that you present?

If we were to similarly dumb down atheist, point out that very often the thinking to deny what is placed before them reaches near conspiratorial levels, and then portray the entire field of atheists are if their arguments were those of a four year old? Well, atheists do howl when that happens.

There is something amiss in atheism when the derision of threads like this becomes .. routine. It simply is not the case of the case for God or Christ.
v3nesl
Posts: 4,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 10:41:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 8:50:02 AM, Kostakv wrote:
I'm an atheist and I hate it when you're arguing with someone and they use these arguments...

1. They use the bible to back up what they're saying.

Response: Okay fine... use the bible to back up what you're saying but if you're going to take the bible literally then you have to believe in Unicorns because the bible mentions Unicorns a lot...

2. When I say God is dumb... and the person responds *GOSH! you're not an atheist no you're not because you said God is dumb and because you said that, that means God has to exist because something that doesn't exist can't be dumb!!!

Response: Okay I see your point... But let me ask you this... If I said Luigi from the video game can jump high.. does that mean he exists? NO that just means he's a fictional character(NOT REAL for creationists that don't know what fiction is) who happens to be able to jump high... So when I say God is dumb I'm saying he's a fictional character who happens to be dumb...

3. When they say I'm going to hell for not believing in God...

Response: Okay lets just say there is a heaven and hell... If "God" is extremely intelligent as you say he is... then would he rather someone who believes in him and does nothing at all and is a terrible person. Or would God rather take someone who is a good person and doesn't believe in him? after all God can't get mad at me for using my brain? and being a rational person asking for proof and evidence and when religion fails to provide me with anything say i'm going to hell?

4. When they say, Why do you need proof just believe :)))))

response: OKAY! At my house there is a rainbow Llama who spits out skittles and poops out frog heads. And the Llama gave me 10 rules. and the 10 rules are
1. Don't use the great rainbow Llamas name in vein.
2. Don't picture any other Llamas but ME!
3. Don't worship any other Llamas but ME!
4. Keep the Llama day holy
5. Honor thy father Llama and mother Llama
6. Do not kill Llamas!
7. Do not cheat on me with any other Llama!
8. Do not steal from Llamas
9. Do not lie to Llamas
10. Do not covet thy Llama.

Then I say.. Do you believe??????

You know what I find absurd? Alleged atheists who are obsessed with God. Quit pretending - if you're having a crisis of faith, say so.
This space for rent.
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 11:01:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 10:34:58 AM, neutral wrote:
Yeah, because the Bible is a Historical record of Jesus and what he does.
There isn't one word written by contemporaneous historians that even mention his existence, much less his divinity.
We also use extra-Biblical records and archeology to back up our claims specific to Jesus. We also use science, philosophy, history, ethics, etc. to further buttress the case.
Provide some scientific, historical or archeological evidence to support your claims. Oh that's right you can't.
Atheists very often use the Bible, of rather misrepresentations of it, to justify their positions, correct?
The deluded use their poorly indoctrined version of the bible to attempt to defend their false interpretation of the bible.
What does six days mean?
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 12:31:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 10:41:10 AM, v3nesl wrote:
You know what I find absurd? Alleged atheists who are obsessed with God. Quit pretending - if you're having a crisis of faith, say so.

There is a very substantial difference between being obsessed with God, and being obsessed (or genuinely troubled), by the actions of those holding a belief in God. Most theists tend to think of their theism as either harmless or beneficial. However, little could be further from the truth. Theism promotes emotionalism, elitism, bigotry, persecution, ignorance, the dismissal of logic, holding to false concepts of "absolute good" and "absolute bad", hatred, violence and war.

In fact, the majority of wars (even contemporary wars), are fueled by religious motivation. And G. W. Bush (or his keepers), most certainly were aware of this in using his statements about "listening to God" to sway the Christian majority of the U.S. into approval of an illegal war. Using this war as an example; understand that WE (the U.S.) were the aggressors. WE invaded them on their land. And we have killed over 100,000 of them, simply for attempting to defend themselves from an illegal invasion. And it is highly unlikely that this would have happened if not for the ignorance and religious motivation of the Christian majority.

I see that as a sufficient issue to warrant interest. I see it as a sufficient issue that "we" (Americans), are losing our rights as Americans, to the pressure of legislated religious values. Laws against prostitution, same-sex marriage, obstructions to medical research, language used in public broadcasts, etc., not only violate our civil rights, but present a direct and dire danger to the citizens of this country, and the world. And it is all religiously motivated. Much of it is purely unconstitutional.

Take a look at a list of contemporary wars (not including Iran and Afghanistan), and see if you notice anything significant regarding the combatants in these "conflicts".

- Palestine (Jews v. Muslims)
- The Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims)
- Northern Ireland (Protestants v. Catholics)
- Kashmir (Muslims v. Hindus)
- Sudan (Muslims v. Christians and animists)
- Nigeria (Muslims v. Christians)
- Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v. Christians)
- Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v. Tamil Hindus)
- Indonesia (Muslims v. Timorese Christians)
- The Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians)

We're not obsessed with your gods. But we are highly concerned about the very real and extremely serious threat theists present to the advancement of mankind, to civilization, and to the very survival of the planet. You're dangerous and our only defense (so far), is to attempt to engage you in rational debate so that you might follow logic to some of these conclusions on your own. Given the severity of the threat that you pose, and what is at stake, I think we're being extremely tolerant and have selected the most peaceful means possible to try to rectify the insanely detrimental threat you pose.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
v3nesl
Posts: 4,505
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 2:05:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 12:31:16 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 6/12/2014 10:41:10 AM, v3nesl wrote:
You know what I find absurd? Alleged atheists who are obsessed with God. Quit pretending - if you're having a crisis of faith, say so.

There is a very substantial difference between being obsessed with God, and being obsessed (or genuinely troubled), by the actions of those holding a belief in God.

Sorry, not buying it. I've never started any wars, don't have any theist friends who have, it's just a lame excuse for not minding your own business. I read the perfect proverb from the bible just this morning: "A man's own folly ruins his life, yet his heart rages against God"
This space for rent.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 2:31:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 2:05:46 PM, v3nesl wrote:
At 6/12/2014 12:31:16 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 6/12/2014 10:41:10 AM, v3nesl wrote:
You know what I find absurd? Alleged atheists who are obsessed with God. Quit pretending - if you're having a crisis of faith, say so.

There is a very substantial difference between being obsessed with God, and being obsessed (or genuinely troubled), by the actions of those holding a belief in God.

Sorry, not buying it. I've never started any wars, don't have any theist friends who have, it's just a lame excuse for not minding your own business. I read the perfect proverb from the bible just this morning: "A man's own folly ruins his life, yet his heart rages against God"

There are members of the KKK who have never hung a black man from a tree or burned one at the stake. Does that mean that you're not concerned about the overall effects of the KKK? Seriously, you suggest we're in denial?

And when you say "I've never started any wars", you're demonstrating ignorance of the process. Can you point to any individual Christian and claim they started a contemporary war? Does that absolve all Christians from all involvement in the instigation of wars? It's a cumulative effect and hiding among the numbers while claiming innocence doesn't make for a compelling argument. If you're part of the "club", then you get to share responsibility for what the "club" does.

God (belief therein), is your most obvious folly. I'm not against God anymore than I'm against the Cat in the Hat, fairies or Mother Goose. But I'm deeply concerned about anyone who believes any of those entities are real, and is willing to act on that belief.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
neutral
Posts: 4,478
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 5:54:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 12:31:16 PM, Beastt wrote:

Lets take a closer look at this stuff shall we?

- Palestine (Jews v. Muslims)

The Palestinians happen to be Muslims, if they were not? Would the problem be solved? Would the inequality of the occupation be eliminated? Are they not free to choose their own religion (in both cases)? Why should one choice regard you to second class status?

Many Jews are avowed secularists ... why is this not helping?

- The Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims)

The Balkans have been a cross roads of Empires for generations. The Turks, Ottomans, Austrians, all pushed through the region. The area exists peacefully, as it does now, as a multi-ethnic and religious society.

The reason they were turn apart last time? Right, Ultra Serbian Nationalism. I know, I served there.

- Northern Ireland (Protestants v. Catholics)

The political decision to incorporate Ireland by eliminating their religious freedom was a policy decision born of politics, not religion. The latest batch of violence was caused by a desire to reunify Ireland on the whole Island. A NATIONALIST and POLITICAL sentiment.

- Kashmir (Muslims v. Hindus)

Kashmire is Muslim. It got Pakistani forces crossing in Indian controlled areas. Both sides have violated political accords, and the Pakistanis have been sending proxy fighters, as they cannot beat India in a convention war - across the border. The only reason its an issue is because Pakistan grew, trained, and than facilitated the deployment of insurgent/terrorist forces into the region.

The decision was born of a POLITICAL and NATIONALISTIC sentiment.

- Sudan (Muslims v. Christians and animists)

Blacks vs. Arabs. Oil. And what is happening in South Sudan now? Why the major tribes are fighting in the South. Shocking ... they have the same religion ... Say what?

- Nigeria (Muslims v. Christians)

The SAME insurgency in the SAME areas was raging in the 1960. Corruption, endemic injustice, collapse of government, and nascent tribal warfare all play a part. Boko Harem simply taps into the funds that flow, but all they are is a bunch of criminals and warlords.

- Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v. Christians)

Ethopia and Eritrea are both Christian majority countries. its 50% Christian and 48% Islamic in Eritrea. Whoops.

- Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v. Tamil Hindus)

Ethnic. Thanks. Tamil Tigers? Suicide bombers? Hello?

- Indonesia (Muslims v. Timorese Christians)

East Timor fought for its independence ... like we did against the British. I notice you failed to mention the ethnic violence against the Han descendants? Odd that.

- The Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians)

The dissolution of the former Soviet Union was about religion.

In short, we will, in typical atheist fashion, take any conflict in which any slight demographic is religious and take incredibly complex geo-political events and dumb them down to smears sake? That is the danger of allowing such prejudice into ones though processes.

Doubt it?

Columbia - FARC. A 30 year war between ... rebels for poor rural areas and the government - mixed in with some good ol fashion Narco terrorists.

War in Panama - Noriega ... I am sure that narco-conection is ... religious.

Haitian violence between entreated political forces and the poor? Multiple time, eh?

The Shining Path insurgency ... communist and atheistic against the state, eh?

NOV 17 in Greece ... communist and atheistic ... again.

Nepalese Communist/Atheistsic revolt ... again ... where true to form, the communists stalled the installation of a government after the regicide, to ensure its OWN power brokers were the ones empowered ... like Kim Il Sung. Got that play book down.

Somalia .. yeah, all sides are Muslim.

Rawanda ... ethnic violence.

Congo - terrible infrastructure with terrible governance, tribal obliteration.

Rhodesian insurgency created Zimbabwe, which it turn used race to facilitate more violence and damned near broke the country.

Egypt ... WTH is that? All sides are ... Muslim.

Tunisia ... All sides are Muslim.

Lybia ... All sides are Muslim.

Syria ... All sides are Muslim.

Iraq ... All sides are Muslim. Again, served there, its tribal, of which Suna vs Shia is a reflection of larger tribal hegemony, and also the proxy war taking place between Saudi Arabia and Iran in the region.

Iran vs, Saudi Arabia? Religious, or the Cultural affairs dating back between Persia and Arabis that go back to Biblical times.

Pakistan vs. India ... co-existed for centuries as Hindu and Muslim .. why not now?

China vs. India ... fought a bitter war about he boundaries around ... Kashmire of all things.

China verses ... well every one in Asia ... right resource competition.

The Uighur insurgency in Western China? Because they are Muslim? Or because China in importing Han Chinese and enriching them over the locals who share none of the benefits of the development even as their cultural is attacked.

Whatever is going on in that Tibet area?

Yemen ... All Muslim.

Afghanistan ... has been a basket case forever .. even Alexander wanted nothing to do with that. All Muslim.

Russian aggression in Ukraine? Can we say sphere of influence?

Malian civil war? Right all the same religion ... different ethnicity.

And on and on and on ...

You can clearly and demonstrably see the effects of anti-religious biases in lists like these. A list of wars that have in some cases, no religious genesis whatsoever, other than have had religion forced into by politicians seeking to galvanize support, and perhaps the most egregious example of religious violence - itself a reflection of really, really stupid tribal leaders infighting violence, would be the Central African Republic.

Yet that too displays the displays the problem. They lived side by side until some idiot organized some in the absence of proper governance), who went out and murdered a bunch of innocents, who in turn organized and smashed the people who started the fight. The tribal nature of conflict is apparent.

It should not come as a shock, because as major tribal leaders decide, so goes the tribe. Its not like the West where an individual can that Freedom of Conscience choice. the tribes kicks you out ... you are done. The tribes are thus ETHNICALLY and RELIGIOUSLY homogenous.

But you cannot get these from prejudices lists of 'wars' that are cherry picked, poorly analyzed, and meant to blame religion.

The ONLY thing you get out of things like this is bad analysis, which generates faulty decision point leading to war and stupidity.

It was precisely our inability to understand this that allowed us to think we could shoot our way into Baghdad and Kabul and that would be the toughest part. We did not understand EITHER the religious or tribal/political dynamic. To the thousands of dead Soldiers that resulted from that lack of understanding? With the forces we released when we ripped the lid off of Iraq now swallowing the country in another wave of pointless violence?

We owe it to people do a little be better analysis on something as critical as going to war or not. You cannot get accurate assessments if you think 'religion' is the problem and allow that bias and preconception to form your opinion devoid of facts. That hubris has already cost the world enough.
skinker
Posts: 345
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2014 6:15:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Where do you get peeves for petting? Are there peeve petting zoos around for others besides atheists?

Seriously, no atheist can logically mount a critical attack of theists creating wars, not when atheists at the helm of France, the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea, have given the world such marvelous examples of how secular morality works in our world to bring peace and justice to citizens.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2014 9:22:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/12/2014 6:15:21 PM, skinker wrote:
Where do you get peeves for petting? Are there peeve petting zoos around for others besides atheists?

Seriously, no atheist can logically mount a critical attack of theists creating wars, not when atheists at the helm of France, the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea, have given the world such marvelous examples of how secular morality works in our world to bring peace and justice to citizens.

Let's see; Hitler was a Catholic and stated openly that his treatment of Jews (in his mind), was the continuation of what Jesus Christ started, (announced at a Christmas party in 1926).

A FEW CONTEMPORARY WARS
Palestine (Jews v. Muslims)
The Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims)
Northern Ireland (Protestants v. Catholics)
Kashmir (Muslims v. Hindus)
Sudan (Muslims v. Christians and animists)
Nigeria (Muslims v. Christians)
Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v. Christians)
Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v. Tamil Hindus)
Indonesia (Muslims v. Timorese Christians)
The Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians)

Now, please show us not just that secular governments have been involved in wars and some undeniably heinous behaviors, but that the motivation for these wars and behaviors was a disbelief in gods. It simply doesn't make any sense. Anyone can see why belief in a god or disparity in god beliefs can lead to a war. But how does disbelief in any gods, provide a motivation for war?
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
skinker
Posts: 345
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2014 9:36:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/13/2014 9:22:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 6/12/2014 6:15:21 PM, skinker wrote:
Where do you get peeves for petting? Are there peeve petting zoos around for others besides atheists?

Seriously, no atheist can logically mount a critical attack of theists creating wars, not when atheists at the helm of France, the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea, have given the world such marvelous examples of how secular morality works in our world to bring peace and justice to citizens.

Let's see; Hitler was a Catholic and stated openly that his treatment of Jews (in his mind), was the continuation of what Jesus Christ started, (announced at a Christmas party in 1926).

A FEW CONTEMPORARY WARS
Palestine (Jews v. Muslims)
The Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims)
Northern Ireland (Protestants v. Catholics)
Kashmir (Muslims v. Hindus)
Sudan (Muslims v. Christians and animists)
Nigeria (Muslims v. Christians)
Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v. Christians)
Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v. Tamil Hindus)
Indonesia (Muslims v. Timorese Christians)
The Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians)

Now, please show us not just that secular governments have been involved in wars and some undeniably heinous behaviors, but that the motivation for these wars and behaviors was a disbelief in gods. It simply doesn't make any sense. Anyone can see why belief in a god or disparity in god beliefs can lead to a war. But how does disbelief in any gods, provide a motivation for war?

Oh, please, no more "Hitler was a Catholic or Christian" crapola. Hitler told Germans whatever he thought they wanted to hear about his religious beliefs which were never ever Christian as you don't say the word and do the opposite acts. His mother was supposedly Jewish too one hears and that too has zero to do with his religious ideas which more than anything leaned towards pagan Germanic warrior ideals.

It's Hitler's ACTS that show that he was no religious man at all. And you atheists will Never be able to live down Robespierre, Stalin, Chairman Mao, Pot Pol, all ATHEISTS and all Mass Murderers.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2014 10:50:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/13/2014 9:22:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 6/12/2014 6:15:21 PM, skinker wrote:
Where do you get peeves for petting? Are there peeve petting zoos around for others besides atheists?

Seriously, no atheist can logically mount a critical attack of theists creating wars, not when atheists at the helm of France, the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea, have given the world such marvelous examples of how secular morality works in our world to bring peace and justice to citizens.

Let's see; Hitler was a Catholic and stated openly that his treatment of Jews (in his mind), was the continuation of what Jesus Christ started, (announced at a Christmas party in 1926).

A FEW CONTEMPORARY WARS
Palestine (Jews v. Muslims)
The Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims)
Northern Ireland (Protestants v. Catholics)
Kashmir (Muslims v. Hindus)
Sudan (Muslims v. Christians and animists)
Nigeria (Muslims v. Christians)
Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v. Christians)
Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v. Tamil Hindus)
Indonesia (Muslims v. Timorese Christians)
The Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians)

Now, please show us not just that secular governments have been involved in wars and some undeniably heinous behaviors, but that the motivation for these wars and behaviors was a disbelief in gods. It simply doesn't make any sense. Anyone can see why belief in a god or disparity in god beliefs can lead to a war. But how does disbelief in any gods, provide a motivation for war?

Motivation for war is Always an economic political one. It is politicians that decide to go to war. And they go to war for their constituents. The religious "motivations" you speak of is part of the propaganda to convince a human to kill another human being.

You might understand this relationship if you knew that religious beliefs don't buy guns and bullets. And governments can't force a human to pull a trigger.

You don't deny that secular governments go to war. But I think you can see that they justify and convince other human's to kill with nonreligious reasons.

You should try to learn what actually contributes to War. Just to get you started here is a paper from Standford. It even has a chapter on Religious factors.

http://www.stanford.edu...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2014 11:02:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/13/2014 10:50:37 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 6/13/2014 9:22:55 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 6/12/2014 6:15:21 PM, skinker wrote:
Where do you get peeves for petting? Are there peeve petting zoos around for others besides atheists?

Seriously, no atheist can logically mount a critical attack of theists creating wars, not when atheists at the helm of France, the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea, have given the world such marvelous examples of how secular morality works in our world to bring peace and justice to citizens.

Let's see; Hitler was a Catholic and stated openly that his treatment of Jews (in his mind), was the continuation of what Jesus Christ started, (announced at a Christmas party in 1926).

A FEW CONTEMPORARY WARS
Palestine (Jews v. Muslims)
The Balkans (Orthodox Serbians v. Catholic Croatians; Orthodox Serbians v. Bosnian and Albanian Muslims)
Northern Ireland (Protestants v. Catholics)
Kashmir (Muslims v. Hindus)
Sudan (Muslims v. Christians and animists)
Nigeria (Muslims v. Christians)
Ethiopia and Eritrea (Muslims v. Christians)
Sri Lanka (Sinhalese Buddhists v. Tamil Hindus)
Indonesia (Muslims v. Timorese Christians)
The Caucasus (Orthodox Russians v. Chechen Muslims; Muslim Azerbaijanis v. Catholic and Orthodox Armenians)

Now, please show us not just that secular governments have been involved in wars and some undeniably heinous behaviors, but that the motivation for these wars and behaviors was a disbelief in gods. It simply doesn't make any sense. Anyone can see why belief in a god or disparity in god beliefs can lead to a war. But how does disbelief in any gods, provide a motivation for war?

Motivation for war is Always an economic political one. It is politicians that decide to go to war. And they go to war for their constituents. The religious "motivations" you speak of is part of the propaganda to convince a human to kill another human being.

You might understand this relationship if you knew that religious beliefs don't buy guns and bullets. And governments can't force a human to pull a trigger.

You don't deny that secular governments go to war. But I think you can see that they justify and convince other human's to kill with nonreligious reasons.

You should try to learn what actually contributes to War. Just to get you started here is a paper from Standford. It even has a chapter on Religious factors.

http://www.stanford.edu...

After that you can read the classics like Sun Ztu's "The Art of War", Machiavelli's "The Prince". You will notice a trend that religion is a PR and HR prop. To gain support and encourage compliance.

"Now, please show us not just that secular governments have been involved in wars and some undeniably heinous behaviors, but that the motivation for these wars and behaviors was a disbelief in gods. "

So non-religious governments don't use religious excuses for war. And "let's go to war because we don't believe in god" is a stupid motto. There is no appeal to something higher, no encouraging, no ask for support.

You are brilliant to set up a hypothetical unrealistic argument and then exclaim theist are only right about god if they can defend a claim they don't make. In my book that is deception.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2014 11:43:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I suppose the French Revolution doesn't count as a war for Atheistic reasoning? The Jacobin party was atheist. The revolution used "Liberty" as a motto and had the clear intent to abolish all religion and theism from a French state.

How about the Cambodian Genocide with the Khmer Rouge party. They banned all religions.

To clarify I know Atheist are making no claims, Atheism is not a set of principles, philosophy, or belief system. This makes it very easy for secular humanist materialist naturalist from shirking arguments off as if their justified disbelieve has lead to no harm.

But did these governments kill people because they had a believe in a god? YES