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Was God talking?

neutral
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6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/16/2014 6:56:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Don't look now newt, but the thread concerns David Berkowitz.

There ya go.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/16/2014 7:01:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 6:56:37 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Don't look now newt, but the thread concerns David Berkowitz.

There ya go.

Dn't look now, but that was addressed!

Again, as you have not read our scripture, you will be ignorant of the notice that David Berkowitz is not in them. That his actions are specifically condemned in them. In the ten commandments actually. Thous shalt not murder, correct?

If you cannot accept that ... that is a logical problem for you. The inability to concede a point or an answer to your question is ... your bag brother.
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/16/2014 7:40:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
David Berkowitz was told by a voice in his head to kill people.

Many great people in the OT were told by a voice in their head to kill people.

It must be god.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/16/2014 1:19:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Lol he obviously meant David Berkowitz... he said "David.... just as characters in the bible" implying he didn't mean David from the bible... Plus the thread is about Berkowitz...

Anyways, see the Amalekite genocide.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/16/2014 1:26:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 1:19:02 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Lol he obviously meant David Berkowitz... he said "David.... just as characters in the bible" implying he didn't mean David from the bible... Plus the thread is about Berkowitz...

Anyways, see the Amalekite genocide.

I stand corrected on #1 ;-)

#2 - See George Patton. See William T Sherman. See the concepts of total war. Witness the Egyptian captivity, the Babylonian Captivity that caused ten of the 12 tribes of Israel to vanish from existence.

That is the context, and when you find yourself in an existential war ... how do you get out of it? By killing your adversary to the last man. Period. If such a choice is THRUST UPON YOU, the Amalekites ... how do we stop them?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Is self defense not permissible? Is war advice supposed to lead to defeat and death?

Again, war is not murder (well, it is - but its technically a different context). Advising someone in war is not advice provided outside of war. That is a point I made above. A Soldier praying for guidance in battle will receive different advice than a man praying in attic with no threats.

God understands context. I wonder why so many atheists do not?
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/16/2014 1:37:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 1:26:09 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:19:02 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Lol he obviously meant David Berkowitz... he said "David.... just as characters in the bible" implying he didn't mean David from the bible... Plus the thread is about Berkowitz...

Anyways, see the Amalekite genocide.

I stand corrected on #1 ;-)

#2 - See George Patton. See William T Sherman. See the concepts of total war. Witness the Egyptian captivity, the Babylonian Captivity that caused ten of the 12 tribes of Israel to vanish from existence.

That is the context, and when you find yourself in an existential war ... how do you get out of it? By killing your adversary to the last man. Period. If such a choice is THRUST UPON YOU, the Amalekites ... how do we stop them?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Is self defense not permissible? Is war advice supposed to lead to defeat and death?

Again, war is not murder (well, it is - but its technically a different context). Advising someone in war is not advice provided outside of war. That is a point I made above. A Soldier praying for guidance in battle will receive different advice than a man praying in attic with no threats.

God understands context. I wonder why so many atheists do not?

They killed infants and other young children as part of the genocide. Simply, justifying that is sick and disgusting.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/16/2014 1:53:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 1:37:27 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:26:09 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:19:02 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Lol he obviously meant David Berkowitz... he said "David.... just as characters in the bible" implying he didn't mean David from the bible... Plus the thread is about Berkowitz...

Anyways, see the Amalekite genocide.

I stand corrected on #1 ;-)

#2 - See George Patton. See William T Sherman. See the concepts of total war. Witness the Egyptian captivity, the Babylonian Captivity that caused ten of the 12 tribes of Israel to vanish from existence.

That is the context, and when you find yourself in an existential war ... how do you get out of it? By killing your adversary to the last man. Period. If such a choice is THRUST UPON YOU, the Amalekites ... how do we stop them?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Is self defense not permissible? Is war advice supposed to lead to defeat and death?

Again, war is not murder (well, it is - but its technically a different context). Advising someone in war is not advice provided outside of war. That is a point I made above. A Soldier praying for guidance in battle will receive different advice than a man praying in attic with no threats.

God understands context. I wonder why so many atheists do not?

They killed infants and other young children as part of the genocide. Simply, justifying that is sick and disgusting.

Yep, because in that tribal system babes were raised to revenge. Again, please read the source I provided to get the fuller context. the war stretched on for quite some time. The Amelikites were intractable - beyond diplomacy. There was no negotiated settlement. Despite beating them time and time again in battle, they raised new sons and started the war all over again. They sought the total destruction of Israel - to kill their infants.

How do you stop that level of intractability? You destroy it utterly.

Again, I don't see atheists attacking George Patton, and he had a similar view of how to end wars quickly, viciously, and violently, because the longer the wars go on, the more needless death flows.

The Jews asked, and they got WAR advice. War is brutal.

I think even you atheists understand that. But its easier to pretend you are above it. There is a reason that combat veterans will not submit themselves to the judgement of men who have never seen a war.

This is it.

If we cannot separate a Existential war from guidance to go murder and rape your neighbor? You got issues.

You tell me what you would do to protect your family? Your friends? Your children? And if the answer is I would not crush my enemy entirely to do so? Then what you advocate is suicide. The death of your family and friends. Your children.

They asked. They had defeated the Amelikites numerous times, and they kept coming back time and time again. How do we stop this? How do we protect ourselves from this foe? By destroying him. Utterly.

You would have too brother. You can say you would not have, but you would have. These days most Westerners are shielded from the wars they start. Judgement comes easily to those who do not understand the strife.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/16/2014 2:28:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 1:53:29 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:37:27 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:26:09 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:19:02 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Lol he obviously meant David Berkowitz... he said "David.... just as characters in the bible" implying he didn't mean David from the bible... Plus the thread is about Berkowitz...

Anyways, see the Amalekite genocide.

I stand corrected on #1 ;-)

#2 - See George Patton. See William T Sherman. See the concepts of total war. Witness the Egyptian captivity, the Babylonian Captivity that caused ten of the 12 tribes of Israel to vanish from existence.

That is the context, and when you find yourself in an existential war ... how do you get out of it? By killing your adversary to the last man. Period. If such a choice is THRUST UPON YOU, the Amalekites ... how do we stop them?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Is self defense not permissible? Is war advice supposed to lead to defeat and death?

Again, war is not murder (well, it is - but its technically a different context). Advising someone in war is not advice provided outside of war. That is a point I made above. A Soldier praying for guidance in battle will receive different advice than a man praying in attic with no threats.

God understands context. I wonder why so many atheists do not?

They killed infants and other young children as part of the genocide. Simply, justifying that is sick and disgusting.

Yep, because in that tribal system babes were raised to revenge. Again, please read the source I provided to get the fuller context. the war stretched on for quite some time. The Amelikites were intractable - beyond diplomacy. There was no negotiated settlement. Despite beating them time and time again in battle, they raised new sons and started the war all over again. They sought the total destruction of Israel - to kill their infants.

How do you stop that level of intractability? You destroy it utterly.

Again, I don't see atheists attacking George Patton, and he had a similar view of how to end wars quickly, viciously, and violently, because the longer the wars go on, the more needless death flows.

The Jews asked, and they got WAR advice. War is brutal.

I think even you atheists understand that. But its easier to pretend you are above it. There is a reason that combat veterans will not submit themselves to the judgement of men who have never seen a war.

This is it.

If we cannot separate a Existential war from guidance to go murder and rape your neighbor? You got issues.

You tell me what you would do to protect your family? Your friends? Your children? And if the answer is I would not crush my enemy entirely to do so? Then what you advocate is suicide. The death of your family and friends. Your children.

They asked. They had defeated the Amelikites numerous times, and they kept coming back time and time again. How do we stop this? How do we protect ourselves from this foe? By destroying him. Utterly.

You would have too brother. You can say you would not have, but you would have. These days most Westerners are shielded from the wars they start. Judgement comes easily to those who do not understand the strife.

No, they could have killed everyone except the infants and raised them as their own.

Trust me, I understand committing an evil to prevent a greater one. But infants are guilty of nothing. There's really nothing else to discuss.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/16/2014 2:35:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 2:28:47 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:53:29 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:37:27 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:26:09 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:19:02 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Lol he obviously meant David Berkowitz... he said "David.... just as characters in the bible" implying he didn't mean David from the bible... Plus the thread is about Berkowitz...

Anyways, see the Amalekite genocide.

I stand corrected on #1 ;-)

#2 - See George Patton. See William T Sherman. See the concepts of total war. Witness the Egyptian captivity, the Babylonian Captivity that caused ten of the 12 tribes of Israel to vanish from existence.

That is the context, and when you find yourself in an existential war ... how do you get out of it? By killing your adversary to the last man. Period. If such a choice is THRUST UPON YOU, the Amalekites ... how do we stop them?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Is self defense not permissible? Is war advice supposed to lead to defeat and death?

Again, war is not murder (well, it is - but its technically a different context). Advising someone in war is not advice provided outside of war. That is a point I made above. A Soldier praying for guidance in battle will receive different advice than a man praying in attic with no threats.

God understands context. I wonder why so many atheists do not?

They killed infants and other young children as part of the genocide. Simply, justifying that is sick and disgusting.

Yep, because in that tribal system babes were raised to revenge. Again, please read the source I provided to get the fuller context. the war stretched on for quite some time. The Amelikites were intractable - beyond diplomacy. There was no negotiated settlement. Despite beating them time and time again in battle, they raised new sons and started the war all over again. They sought the total destruction of Israel - to kill their infants.

How do you stop that level of intractability? You destroy it utterly.

Again, I don't see atheists attacking George Patton, and he had a similar view of how to end wars quickly, viciously, and violently, because the longer the wars go on, the more needless death flows.

The Jews asked, and they got WAR advice. War is brutal.

I think even you atheists understand that. But its easier to pretend you are above it. There is a reason that combat veterans will not submit themselves to the judgement of men who have never seen a war.

This is it.

If we cannot separate a Existential war from guidance to go murder and rape your neighbor? You got issues.

You tell me what you would do to protect your family? Your friends? Your children? And if the answer is I would not crush my enemy entirely to do so? Then what you advocate is suicide. The death of your family and friends. Your children.

They asked. They had defeated the Amelikites numerous times, and they kept coming back time and time again. How do we stop this? How do we protect ourselves from this foe? By destroying him. Utterly.

You would have too brother. You can say you would not have, but you would have. These days most Westerners are shielded from the wars they start. Judgement comes easily to those who do not understand the strife.

No, they could have killed everyone except the infants and raised them as their own.

Trust me, I understand committing an evil to prevent a greater one. But infants are guilty of nothing. There's really nothing else to discuss.

Right up to the point where he realizes he is an Amelikite. Remember this is a Society that well remembers the birth right of Joseph and his influence in freeing them.

No one says the infants are guilty, just that the end of the fighting that kills many more must be halted. Wars are easy to start, devilishly hard to stop. Ending them can be brutal. Its not advice God gives the Israelites often, and indeed he gave them a LOT.

That would include, go walk around the walls and they will just fall down.

So, if God gave the direction to halt the war, then we must appreciate just how dire and intractable a foe the Amelikites were.

Again, the larger point, if someone claims God told them to murder, precisely because we understand just how dire the situation with the Amelikites was, we know that the man is lying and or insane.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/16/2014 3:26:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 2:35:26 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 2:28:47 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:53:29 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:37:27 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:26:09 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 1:19:02 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:52:29 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:40:32 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:27:23 AM, neutral wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

Perhaps you can take a stab at answering your own question.

The answer to question of Prophetic visions rather plainly states that guidance will never be given that conflicts with the message of God. Go kill innocent people cannot come from God. There is no wider war. There is no great sacrifice necessary to end great suffering. Its just murder.

That would be how people know - because, once again, we bothered to read the scripture.
What are "prophetic visions" and why are they relevant to this discussion.

I think you should read the book commonly known as the Old Testament. You'll actually find plenty of "evidence" of the god depicted in this book telling people to murder and mutilate.

David was ordered to murder, by voices in his head. Just as the alleged great people of the book of god were.

No, David was not ordered to murder and was severely punished when he murdered Bathsheba's husband. Killing Goliath in a war ... is not murder. Anymore than killing a guy placing an IED is murder. Its combat.

By all means, explain why David is punished for murder by God himself if murder is what God ordered?

It really would help if you atheists familiarized yourself with AT LEAST the major characters so we would not have to correct the egregious errors in your assessments ... all the time.

Or are we just looking to slam religion no matter what? Irrationally and indefinitely?

Lol he obviously meant David Berkowitz... he said "David.... just as characters in the bible" implying he didn't mean David from the bible... Plus the thread is about Berkowitz...

Anyways, see the Amalekite genocide.

I stand corrected on #1 ;-)

#2 - See George Patton. See William T Sherman. See the concepts of total war. Witness the Egyptian captivity, the Babylonian Captivity that caused ten of the 12 tribes of Israel to vanish from existence.

That is the context, and when you find yourself in an existential war ... how do you get out of it? By killing your adversary to the last man. Period. If such a choice is THRUST UPON YOU, the Amalekites ... how do we stop them?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Is self defense not permissible? Is war advice supposed to lead to defeat and death?

Again, war is not murder (well, it is - but its technically a different context). Advising someone in war is not advice provided outside of war. That is a point I made above. A Soldier praying for guidance in battle will receive different advice than a man praying in attic with no threats.

God understands context. I wonder why so many atheists do not?

They killed infants and other young children as part of the genocide. Simply, justifying that is sick and disgusting.

Yep, because in that tribal system babes were raised to revenge. Again, please read the source I provided to get the fuller context. the war stretched on for quite some time. The Amelikites were intractable - beyond diplomacy. There was no negotiated settlement. Despite beating them time and time again in battle, they raised new sons and started the war all over again. They sought the total destruction of Israel - to kill their infants.

How do you stop that level of intractability? You destroy it utterly.

Again, I don't see atheists attacking George Patton, and he had a similar view of how to end wars quickly, viciously, and violently, because the longer the wars go on, the more needless death flows.

The Jews asked, and they got WAR advice. War is brutal.

I think even you atheists understand that. But its easier to pretend you are above it. There is a reason that combat veterans will not submit themselves to the judgement of men who have never seen a war.

This is it.

If we cannot separate a Existential war from guidance to go murder and rape your neighbor? You got issues.

You tell me what you would do to protect your family? Your friends? Your children? And if the answer is I would not crush my enemy entirely to do so? Then what you advocate is suicide. The death of your family and friends. Your children.

They asked. They had defeated the Amelikites numerous times, and they kept coming back time and time again. How do we stop this? How do we protect ourselves from this foe? By destroying him. Utterly.

You would have too brother. You can say you would not have, but you would have. These days most Westerners are shielded from the wars they start. Judgement comes easily to those who do not understand the strife.

No, they could have killed everyone except the infants and raised them as their own.

Trust me, I understand committing an evil to prevent a greater one. But infants are guilty of nothing. There's really nothing else to discuss.

Right up to the point where he realizes he is an Amelikite. Remember this is a Society that well remembers the birth right of Joseph and his influence in freeing them.

No one says the infants are guilty, just that the end of the fighting that kills many more must be halted. Wars are easy to start, devilishly hard to stop. Ending them can be brutal. Its not advice God gives the Israelites often, and indeed he gave them a LOT.

That would include, go walk around the walls and they will just fall down.

So, if God gave the direction to halt the war, then we must appreciate just how dire and intractable a foe the Amelikites were.


Then you're presupposing God's omnibenevolence and omnibenevolent commands within all of the bible, but that is the point we are debating.

What I see is a people rationalizing brutal murder of innocents by claiming that they were spoken to by God.

Again, the larger point, if someone claims God told them to murder, precisely because we understand just how dire the situation with the Amelikites was, we know that the man is lying and or insane.

But God did tell them to murder. Killing infants is always murder. I mean, it might be justifiable, as you are currently attempting to do, but it's murder by definition.

What I'm saying is that if you can in any circumstance justify the slaughter of infants by God, then we can't really be sure that God didn't actually talk to Berkowitz.
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/17/2014 7:07:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There seems to be a reluctance to answer.

Was it god talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/17/2014 11:56:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.

Does your book say that anywhere?

Ore is it the gospel of Anna?
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/17/2014 12:04:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 11:56:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.

Does your book say that anywhere?

Ore is it the gospel of Anna?

"seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue" I Pet 1: 3)

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1: 3)
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/17/2014 12:07:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 12:04:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:56:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.

Does your book say that anywhere?

Ore is it the gospel of Anna?

"seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue" I Pet 1: 3)

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1: 3)

Who are you allegedly quoting?

And does it have any meaning?
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/17/2014 12:10:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 12:07:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:04:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:56:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.

Does your book say that anywhere?

Ore is it the gospel of Anna?

"seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue" I Pet 1: 3)

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1: 3)

Who are you allegedly quoting?

And does it have any meaning?

I thought you asked me if the Book says it. You know, the same Book on which your question is based.

"Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?"

Which God are you assuming?

Where did you learn about Him/Her?

How do you know that it is possible for this God to talk in the first place?

Please give detailed answers, but not more than three or four paragraphs per query.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/17/2014 12:13:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 12:10:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:07:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:04:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:56:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.

Does your book say that anywhere?

Ore is it the gospel of Anna?

"seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue" I Pet 1: 3)

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1: 3)

Who are you allegedly quoting?

And does it have any meaning?

I thought you asked me if the Book says it. You know, the same Book on which your question is based.

"Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?"

Which God are you assuming?

Where did you learn about Him/Her?

How do you know that it is possible for this God to talk in the first place?

Please give detailed answers, but not more than three or four paragraphs per query.

Finally, you understand that a non existent god can't say anything.

Well done Anna.
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/17/2014 12:20:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 12:13:05 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:10:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:07:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:04:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:56:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.

Does your book say that anywhere?

Ore is it the gospel of Anna?

"seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue" I Pet 1: 3)

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1: 3)

Who are you allegedly quoting?

And does it have any meaning?

I thought you asked me if the Book says it. You know, the same Book on which your question is based.

"Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?"

Which God are you assuming?

Where did you learn about Him/Her?

How do you know that it is possible for this God to talk in the first place?

Please give detailed answers, but not more than three or four paragraphs per query.

Finally, you understand that a non existent god can't say anything.

Well done Anna.

You are claiming to be a non-existent god just because you can't say anything? Get back up there and answer. It'll be a nice change - and good for you.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,297
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6/17/2014 10:36:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 12:10:58 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:07:53 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 12:04:59 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:56:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:50:37 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/17/2014 11:43:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/17/2014 10:20:03 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/16/2014 6:13:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?

How do you know?

A. No
B. Because God does not talk to anyone today, other than through the Scriptures.

Are you his prophet to declare that?

Does god talk to people?

Has god told you that he no longer talks to people?

If not how do you know?

Because He revealed all things that pertain to the subject back in the 1st century. That's why we aren't continually adding new books to the Bible.

Does your book say that anywhere?

Ore is it the gospel of Anna?

"seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue" I Pet 1: 3)

"Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints." (Jude 1: 3)

Who are you allegedly quoting?

And does it have any meaning?

I thought you asked me if the Book says it. You know, the same Book on which your question is based.

"Was god the one talking to David Berkowitz?"

Which God are you assuming?
I don't assume god. You do.
Where did you learn about Him/Her?
From man after all it is man's creation.
How do you know that it is possible for this God to talk in the first place?
Man says so.
Please give detailed answers, but not more than three or four paragraphs per query.