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Atheists are Biased

twocupcakes
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6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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6/17/2014 8:42:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

No? You don't think a sports fan is biased when he thinks the league/refs are screwing his team over? Or, you don't think a parent is biased if he thinks his child is innocent even when presented clear evidence of guilt? Or, you don't think an American is biased in thinking America is the best country?

Okay...then what would be biased? What does biased mean?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/17/2014 8:51:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Atheists can be biased in evaluating their atheism, the same with theists. That people actually deny this is shocking.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
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Graincruncher
Posts: 2,799
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6/17/2014 8:57:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:42:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

No? You don't think a sports fan is biased when he thinks the league/refs are screwing his team over? Or, you don't think a parent is biased if he thinks his child is innocent even when presented clear evidence of guilt? Or, you don't think an American is biased in thinking America is the best country?

Okay...then what would be biased? What does biased mean?

They aren't biased because they are atheist. Those are all things that people of all kinds are biased about, atheist or not.
civilbuthonest
Posts: 110
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6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/18/2014 7:51:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel

Also, this:

"
"My own spirit recoils from a (personal) God in the same way my heart sinks when I see a lion pacing neurotically back and forth in a small zoo cage. I know, I know the lion is beautiful but dangerous; if you let the lion roam free, it would kill me. Safety demands that it be put in a cage. Safety demands that religions be put in cages, too . . . . . We just can't have the second-class status of women in Roman Catholicism."

-- Daniel Dennett

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community of unsubstantiated just-so stories [in evolutionary biology] because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material causes, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who believes in God can believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen. "

-- Richard Lewtonin

Tell me more about how atheists are "inherently" free from strong bias of wanting a particular outcome?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
bulproof
Posts: 25,295
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6/18/2014 8:00:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Everybody loves generalizations.

Oh just don't use them in relation to christians.

After all 38,000 varieties can't be generalized.

A couple of million atheists who have ONE thing in common are all the same.

I get it. Do you?
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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6/18/2014 8:06:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 7:51:11 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel

Also, this:

"
"My own spirit recoils from a (personal) God in the same way my heart sinks when I see a lion pacing neurotically back and forth in a small zoo cage. I know, I know the lion is beautiful but dangerous; if you let the lion roam free, it would kill me. Safety demands that it be put in a cage. Safety demands that religions be put in cages, too . . . . . We just can't have the second-class status of women in Roman Catholicism."

-- Daniel Dennett

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community of unsubstantiated just-so stories [in evolutionary biology] because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material causes, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who believes in God can believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen. "

-- Richard Lewtonin

Tell me more about how atheists are "inherently" free from strong bias of wanting a particular outcome?

So if I can find a quote from a theist saying they want to kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do, can I go ahead and generalize that all theists want to do the same? How about if I can get three? I bet I can get three pretty easily.

Or can we all agree that people are individuals, with individual reasons for doing, believing, and saying the things that they do, believe, and say?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/18/2014 8:23:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 8:06:22 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:51:11 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel

Also, this:

"
"My own spirit recoils from a (personal) God in the same way my heart sinks when I see a lion pacing neurotically back and forth in a small zoo cage. I know, I know the lion is beautiful but dangerous; if you let the lion roam free, it would kill me. Safety demands that it be put in a cage. Safety demands that religions be put in cages, too . . . . . We just can't have the second-class status of women in Roman Catholicism."

-- Daniel Dennett

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community of unsubstantiated just-so stories [in evolutionary biology] because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material causes, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who believes in God can believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen. "

-- Richard Lewtonin

Tell me more about how atheists are "inherently" free from strong bias of wanting a particular outcome?

So if I can find a quote from a theist saying they want to kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do, can I go ahead and generalize that all theists want to do the same? How about if I can get three? I bet I can get three pretty easily.

Or can we all agree that people are individuals, with individual reasons for doing, believing, and saying the things that they do, believe, and say?

Funny how you single me out for generalizations when I was replying to generalization that "atheists" (not some, mind you, atheists in general according to civilbuthonest) are "inherently" free from strong bias with respect to their atheism. This is clearly not the case. Why not take up the issue with civilbuthonest? What's your issue with what I typed again?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Burzmali
Posts: 1,310
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6/18/2014 8:32:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 8:23:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 8:06:22 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:51:11 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel

Also, this:

"
"My own spirit recoils from a (personal) God in the same way my heart sinks when I see a lion pacing neurotically back and forth in a small zoo cage. I know, I know the lion is beautiful but dangerous; if you let the lion roam free, it would kill me. Safety demands that it be put in a cage. Safety demands that religions be put in cages, too . . . . . We just can't have the second-class status of women in Roman Catholicism."

-- Daniel Dennett

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community of unsubstantiated just-so stories [in evolutionary biology] because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material causes, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who believes in God can believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen. "

-- Richard Lewtonin

Tell me more about how atheists are "inherently" free from strong bias of wanting a particular outcome?

So if I can find a quote from a theist saying they want to kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do, can I go ahead and generalize that all theists want to do the same? How about if I can get three? I bet I can get three pretty easily.

Or can we all agree that people are individuals, with individual reasons for doing, believing, and saying the things that they do, believe, and say?

Funny how you single me out for generalizations when I was replying to generalization that "atheists" (not some, mind you, atheists in general according to civilbuthonest) are "inherently" free from strong bias with respect to their atheism. This is clearly not the case. Why not take up the issue with civilbuthonest? What's your issue with what I typed again?

By quoting your post, I got all of the posts of interest in one shot. It took 2 seconds instead of five minutes of editing. Nothing against what you wrote specifically to the exclusion of what others wrote. All generalizations in the quoted history were the subject of my comment.
twocupcakes
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6/18/2014 5:05:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:57:43 PM, Graincruncher wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:42:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

No? You don't think a sports fan is biased when he thinks the league/refs are screwing his team over? Or, you don't think a parent is biased if he thinks his child is innocent even when presented clear evidence of guilt? Or, you don't think an American is biased in thinking America is the best country?

Okay...then what would be biased? What does biased mean?

They aren't biased because they are atheist. Those are all things that people of all kinds are biased about, atheist or not.

I am not arguing that they are biased because they are atheists.

But, many atheists are quick to point out how "stupid" theists must be to believe in their God. Yet, atheists have many "stupid" non-religious beliefs they hold and believe for similar reasons to theists.

I don't think theists are stupid for believing their religion no more than I think someone is stupid for believing their favorite sports team is the best. Both appeal to human bias.
twocupcakes
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6/18/2014 5:09:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

I agree that in general theists want their religion to be true. And, I think that atheists often become atheists by shedding their bias and indoctrination. When it comes to religion I think atheists are much less biased than theists. I just think it is easy for atheists to forget (once they become atheists) how convincing bias can be (in religion and many other aspects of life).
civilbuthonest
Posts: 110
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6/18/2014 7:03:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel

Agreed that you have a fine example here of an atheist that clearly 'wants' there to be no God, and we should therefore suspect that that he would be biased. To be honest, the guy sounds like a bit of a nutcase, with an illogical fear of a God. A following posting lists two more examples as well.

So, let's stand back and see what we have found so far. We seem to agree that most Christians/Theists have a strong preference for living in a world where their God exists and, human nature being what it is, this will lead to bias in their religious belief.

On the other side, we have been shown undeniable examples of 3 atheists who would be equally biased because they would prefer that there is no God.

The real question, then, is whether these 3 atheists are representative of atheists as a whole. I suspect not, and as an atheist I have already explained why I personally am neutral regarding whether a God exists. Actually, I'm not even neutral. I think it would be wonderful if the loving, caring, just, all-knowing God that theists want was true, though I'll admit I would be horrified if the nasty, immoral, murdering, raping, bloodthirsty God of the OT was true, but that's not a problem because no one wants to believe in that, so they don't. As a scientist, if incontravertible evidence was found tomorrow that God really did exist, I would be over the moon with excitement. Science would be instantly ablaze, wanting to study how this God worked, and how it fitted in with science, and I would feel both excited and privileged to be alive at the time when the God-riddle had finally been solved. So for myself, any bias is actually negative to what I am forced to believe on the available evidence.

How could we find out whether atheists as a whole have an irrational fear of God, as Thomas Nagel clearly does, and specifically do not want a God to exist? Well, obviously by asking atheists at random, such as here on this Forum.

So, if any other atheists are reading this thread, then let us know, do you specifically hope that a God does not exist?

My guess is that those like Nagel are in the minority, but let's try to find out.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/20/2014 9:56:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 8:32:02 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 6/18/2014 8:23:44 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 8:06:22 AM, Burzmali wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:51:11 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel

Also, this:

"
"My own spirit recoils from a (personal) God in the same way my heart sinks when I see a lion pacing neurotically back and forth in a small zoo cage. I know, I know the lion is beautiful but dangerous; if you let the lion roam free, it would kill me. Safety demands that it be put in a cage. Safety demands that religions be put in cages, too . . . . . We just can't have the second-class status of women in Roman Catholicism."

-- Daniel Dennett

"Our willingness to accept scientific claims that are against common sense is the key to an understanding of the real struggle between science and the supernatural. We take the side of science in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community of unsubstantiated just-so stories [in evolutionary biology] because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material causes, no matter how counterintuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door. The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who believes in God can believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen. "

-- Richard Lewtonin

Tell me more about how atheists are "inherently" free from strong bias of wanting a particular outcome?

So if I can find a quote from a theist saying they want to kill anyone who doesn't believe as they do, can I go ahead and generalize that all theists want to do the same? How about if I can get three? I bet I can get three pretty easily.

Or can we all agree that people are individuals, with individual reasons for doing, believing, and saying the things that they do, believe, and say?

Funny how you single me out for generalizations when I was replying to generalization that "atheists" (not some, mind you, atheists in general according to civilbuthonest) are "inherently" free from strong bias with respect to their atheism. This is clearly not the case. Why not take up the issue with civilbuthonest? What's your issue with what I typed again?

By quoting your post, I got all of the posts of interest in one shot. It took 2 seconds instead of five minutes of editing. Nothing against what you wrote specifically to the exclusion of what others wrote. All generalizations in the quoted history were the subject of my comment.

I see. My bad for the misunderstanding then.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/20/2014 10:14:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 7:03:02 PM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:46:54 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/18/2014 7:07:37 AM, civilbuthonest wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

Nice posting, and a very interesting topic.

One reason for bias is pride, that is, once you have taken a position, then it is human nature not to want to admit you are wrong. My guess is that both theists and atheists are similar in this respect. Debates can magnify this. There is of course a tendency to want to 'win the debate', rather than find out and acknowledge who really has the better case.

I agree with you that being brought up in a particular way often gives rise to an unconscious bias as well, but not always..

However, I think you have absolutely hit the nail on the head with your statement :-

In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true ...

In my view this is the most powerful factor of all that drives bias. However, I would argue that this form of bias will generally be much more pronounced with theists.

It is almost universally true that theists want their religious belief to be true. They yearn for a God that cares about them, can guide them, provide morals, be all powerful yet loving, promise them Heaven and so on. Who would not want all of those things? I have asked theists before how they would feel if incontravertible evidence should show up that God did not exist after all, and all said they would feel empty, sad, even devastated. There is no doubt that most theists very much want their religious beliefs to be true, and inevitably this will result in bias, just as you say.

However, the atheist situation is completely different. Speaking as an atheist, I have no preference as to whether God exists or not. My belief is not based on 'want' in any way, but that on the basis of the available evidence, a personal God of the Christian type probably does not exist. Actually, if anything, I think it would be great if God existed, but have conclude that he does not despite thinking it would be nice if he did. Thus, atheists are inherently free from the the strong bias that results from 'wanting' a particular outcome.

Unconvinced.

"In speaking of the fear of religion, I don"t mean to refer to the entirely reasonable hostility toward certain established religions and religious institutions, in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper"namely, the fear of religion itself. I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers.

I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn"t just that I don"t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I"m right in my belief. It"s that I hope there is no God! I don"t want there to be a God; I don"t want the universe to be like that."

-- Thomas Nagel


Agreed that you have a fine example here of an atheist that clearly 'wants' there to be no God, and we should therefore suspect that that he would be biased. To be honest, the guy sounds like a bit of a nutcase, with an illogical fear of a God. A following posting lists two more examples as well.

So, let's stand back and see what we have found so far. We seem to agree that most Christians/Theists have a strong preference for living in a world where their God exists and, human nature being what it is, this will lead to bias in their religious belief.

On the other side, we have been shown undeniable examples of 3 atheists who would be equally biased because they would prefer that there is no God.

The real question, then, is whether these 3 atheists are representative of atheists as a whole. I suspect not, and as an atheist I have already explained why I personally am neutral regarding whether a God exists. Actually, I'm not even neutral. I think it would be wonderful if the loving, caring, just, all-knowing God that theists want was true, though I'll admit I would be horrified if the nasty, immoral, murdering, raping, bloodthirsty God of the OT was true, but that's not a problem because no one wants to believe in that, so they don't. As a scientist, if incontravertible evidence was found tomorrow that God really did exist, I would be over the moon with excitement. Science would be instantly ablaze, wanting to study how this God worked, and how it fitted in with science, and I would feel both excited and privileged to be alive at the time when the God-riddle had finally been solved. So for myself, any bias is actually negative to what I am forced to believe on the available evidence.

How could we find out whether atheists as a whole have an irrational fear of God, as Thomas Nagel clearly does, and specifically do not want a God to exist? Well, obviously by asking atheists at random, such as here on this Forum.

So, if any other atheists are reading this thread, then let us know, do you specifically hope that a God does not exist?

My guess is that those like Nagel are in the minority, but let's try to find out.

I don't think the situation is as simple as you make it out to be. Human beings are complex beings - with a range of concurrent, conflicting wants and desires. Speaking for myself in some sense I, of course, want God to exist, But in another sense, I don't. Most other Christians I know (and have read) are the same way. And atheists, being human beings also, also seem to be the same way.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
bebil10
Posts: 139
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6/20/2014 10:16:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

We are biased because we have the same standard of evidence for your god claims as we do any other ridiculous claim.
Envisage
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6/20/2014 10:30:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
"Atheists are biased"

I agree, which is why we should be divorcing our beliefs and conceptions from our emotional and pride attachments, and to give value to methodologies that weed out bias. Such as science, peer review and critical thinking, even about your own ore existing core beliefs.
AlbinoBunny
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6/20/2014 4:33:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Everyone is biased. It's just that some people seem a little more biased over certain topics than others do.
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neutral
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6/20/2014 5:28:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

Your last statement there? Excellent example of atheist biases.
Hematite12
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6/20/2014 5:29:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:28:52 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

Your last statement there? Excellent example of atheist biases.

I'm afraid I don't understand?

I'm not an atheist.
twocupcakes
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6/20/2014 5:34:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 10:16:32 AM, bebil10 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

We are biased because we have the same standard of evidence for your god claims as we do any other ridiculous claim.

Are you talking to me?...Who is My God...I am an atheist. Are you an atheist?
twocupcakes
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6/20/2014 5:35:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 10:30:37 AM, Envisage wrote:
"Atheists are biased"

I agree, which is why we should be divorcing our beliefs and conceptions from our emotional and pride attachments, and to give value to methodologies that weed out bias. Such as science, peer review and critical thinking, even about your own ore existing core beliefs.

I agree
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/20/2014 5:41:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:29:52 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:28:52 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

Your last statement there? Excellent example of atheist biases.

I'm afraid I don't understand?

I'm not an atheist.

Let me guess? Agnostic.

And yet, as an agnostic ... you somehow are unable to pick out that derision and anti-theism that causes one who does not believe in God (which would be you) to instantly see someone as too stupid too 'get' a basic concept.

IMHO, most 'agnostics' on forums are just atheists demonstrating the same anti-theism, but hiding behind agnosticism to avoid having to actually justify or evidence their position. Rarely, if ever, do you see such 'agnostics' drift from the atheist line.

A rose by any other name ...
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/20/2014 5:43:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:41:56 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:29:52 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:28:52 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

Your last statement there? Excellent example of atheist biases.

I'm afraid I don't understand?

I'm not an atheist.

Let me guess? Agnostic.

And yet, as an agnostic ... you somehow are unable to pick out that derision and anti-theism that causes one who does not believe in God (which would be you) to instantly see someone as too stupid too 'get' a basic concept.

IMHO, most 'agnostics' on forums are just atheists demonstrating the same anti-theism, but hiding behind agnosticism to avoid having to actually justify or evidence their position. Rarely, if ever, do you see such 'agnostics' drift from the atheist line.

A rose by any other name ...

No, I believe in God lol

This forum is making you paranoid. Take some time off.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/20/2014 5:48:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:43:20 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:41:56 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:29:52 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:28:52 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

Your last statement there? Excellent example of atheist biases.

I'm afraid I don't understand?

I'm not an atheist.

Let me guess? Agnostic.

And yet, as an agnostic ... you somehow are unable to pick out that derision and anti-theism that causes one who does not believe in God (which would be you) to instantly see someone as too stupid too 'get' a basic concept.

IMHO, most 'agnostics' on forums are just atheists demonstrating the same anti-theism, but hiding behind agnosticism to avoid having to actually justify or evidence their position. Rarely, if ever, do you see such 'agnostics' drift from the atheist line.

A rose by any other name ...

No, I believe in God lol

This forum is making you paranoid. Take some time off.

You list yourself as agnostic. That others cannot make sense of your claims ... really, its not everyone else. We know what agnostic means.
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/20/2014 5:50:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:48:16 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:43:20 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:41:56 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:29:52 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:28:52 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

Your last statement there? Excellent example of atheist biases.

I'm afraid I don't understand?

I'm not an atheist.

Let me guess? Agnostic.

And yet, as an agnostic ... you somehow are unable to pick out that derision and anti-theism that causes one who does not believe in God (which would be you) to instantly see someone as too stupid too 'get' a basic concept.

IMHO, most 'agnostics' on forums are just atheists demonstrating the same anti-theism, but hiding behind agnosticism to avoid having to actually justify or evidence their position. Rarely, if ever, do you see such 'agnostics' drift from the atheist line.

A rose by any other name ...

No, I believe in God lol

This forum is making you paranoid. Take some time off.

You list yourself as agnostic. That others cannot make sense of your claims ... really, its not everyone else. We know what agnostic means.

Apparently we don't, since agnosticism isn't incompatible with theism. I just recognize that it's possible that he doesn't exist, and that, while my faith in His existence may be enough for me, it's not enough for some (atheists), and that's fine. Atheism is highly rational, but that doesn't mean that I am one.
Idealist
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6/20/2014 5:56:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

I think it's only human to suffer from confirmation bias. We all collect "facts" and "truths" which back-up what we believe. I think that it grows as a function of age. The only person likely to be a "blank-slate" is a child, and even then only a very young one. On the other hand, the older we get the harder it is for us to change what we think. I mean, who wants to accept they've been wrong all their lives? If we are really honest then we're more apt to stop and think about new ideas, but most are loyal to the paradigms they already feel part of. About seven or eight years ago I decided that I would try to really commit myself to searching for only what seemed to be true, but promising to do it and actually doing it are two different things, I've found. I believe there is a bigger "Truth" with a capital "T", and I try to focus on uncovering that, but I know I'm still biased sometimes, even if I can say I've gotten a lot better at listening to opposing views.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/20/2014 5:56:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:50:21 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:48:16 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:43:20 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:41:56 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:29:52 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 5:28:52 PM, neutral wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:38:40 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/17/2014 8:31:39 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Atheists often give theists flack for believing the one religion they were brought up believing is clearly true while others are mistaken. However, Atheists (well people in general) are just as biased, just in other ways. In general, people will believe something if they want it to be true or were raised that way.

While Christians will believe the stories of Jesus are true. Die hard UFO believers will believe the thing they saw in the sky is evidence of Aliens. Parents will believe their son/daughter is innocent despite all evidence. Sports fans will believe their is a conspiracy by the league/refs to screw over their team. People will believe the country they were raised in to be the best.

I think it is easy for atheists to see how theists are biased, yet atheists are biased in many ways of their own.

None of the examples you gave were examples of how atheists are biased?...

I don't think you know what that word means.

Your last statement there? Excellent example of atheist biases.

I'm afraid I don't understand?

I'm not an atheist.

Let me guess? Agnostic.

And yet, as an agnostic ... you somehow are unable to pick out that derision and anti-theism that causes one who does not believe in God (which would be you) to instantly see someone as too stupid too 'get' a basic concept.

IMHO, most 'agnostics' on forums are just atheists demonstrating the same anti-theism, but hiding behind agnosticism to avoid having to actually justify or evidence their position. Rarely, if ever, do you see such 'agnostics' drift from the atheist line.

A rose by any other name ...

No, I believe in God lol

This forum is making you paranoid. Take some time off.

You list yourself as agnostic. That others cannot make sense of your claims ... really, its not everyone else. We know what agnostic means.

Apparently we don't, since agnosticism isn't incompatible with theism. I just recognize that it's possible that he doesn't exist, and that, while my faith in His existence may be enough for me, it's not enough for some (atheists), and that's fine. Atheism is highly rational, but that doesn't mean that I am one.

Yeah, it is. If you believe in God, then you are no longer uncertain. You are a theist.

Confuse yourself all you want, rationalize away, but please spare us the condescension of abandoning dictionaries due to your superior intellect. If you believe in a God, welcome to theism.

Words have meanings, that is WHY we created dictionaries in the first place - to give language precision. Really, its incumbent upon you to define yourself correctly, not ask everyone else to acknowledge you, through mind reading, as transcendent of the English language.

If you are agnostic, you are uncertain, you believe there is a God. Theism.

Really, the rest of the word understand that these thoughts are not original and can classify themselves correctly.