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Why did an omnipotent god?

bulproof
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6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
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6/18/2014 2:14:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
bulproof wrote:
The question is..............once again.............for the slow amongst us.
From whence did your universe come?

From uncaused cause.
Never fart near dog
bulproof
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6/18/2014 2:16:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:14:09 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
bulproof wrote:
The question is..............once again.............for the slow amongst us.
From whence did your universe come?

From uncaused cause.

Don't look now poo, but you be posting in the wrong thread.
Now I respect ya.hahahahahahahaha
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
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6/18/2014 2:18:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:16:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:14:09 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
bulproof wrote:
The question is..............once again.............for the slow amongst us.
From whence did your universe come?

From uncaused cause.

Don't look now poo, but you be posting in the wrong thread.
Now I respect ya.hahahahahahahaha

pffff i moved here because its about the univurse anyway you started in the wrong forum at first ya Bobo
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,269
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6/18/2014 2:23:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:18:40 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:16:31 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:14:09 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
bulproof wrote:
The question is..............once again.............for the slow amongst us.
From whence did your universe come?

From uncaused cause.

Don't look now poo, but you be posting in the wrong thread.
Now I respect ya.hahahahahahahaha

pffff i moved here because its about the univurse anyway you started in the wrong forum at first ya Bobo

Angry little thing ain't ya.

Care to respond to the topic? Or to hard for ya?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/18/2014 2:31:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't find this objection very convincing.

This seems to be a ear version if the argument from the existence of non-deities, where if god was tri omni, then his creations should be similarly perfect and powerful.

First, for one I don't see how it quite logically connects that it actually argues against God, it may well be logically non-sensical for unbound deistic beings to exist outside of a universe (which was subsequently finely tuned) while god exists, or in doing so would impinge on god's power.

If for example we accept that god has no free will since he is by definition omnibenevolent, then he would be forced to create beings in a 'limited' or defined universe if free will was the benevolent act which would not impinge on free will.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other better objections, but in either case this line of reasoning seems unconvincing.
Envisage
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6/18/2014 2:32:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:31:21 PM, Envisage wrote:
I don't find this objection very convincing.

This seems to be a ear version if the argument from the existence of non-deities, where if god was tri omni, then his creations should be similarly perfect and powerful.

First, for one I don't see how it quite logically connects that it actually argues against God, it may well be logically non-sensical for unbound deistic beings to exist outside of a universe (which was subsequently finely tuned) while god exists, or in doing so would impinge on god's power.

If for example we accept that god has no free will since he is by definition omnibenevolent, then he would be forced to create beings in a 'limited' or defined universe if free will was the benevolent act which would not impinge on his omnipotence

I'm sure there are a bunch of other better objections, but in either case this line of reasoning seems unconvincing.

Fix'd
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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6/18/2014 2:33:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

You talking nonsense. "No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands." why God created only 1 moon? why not 10 moons around the earth? it would be more beautiful. why there is only 7 colors? if god can make anything in any time why not world with no laws just fantasies? you cant be more stupid? sorry but now spain vs chile i will come back after the game bobo my love :D:D:D i will miss you :D
Never fart near dog
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/18/2014 2:57:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?

He did, haven't you seen pictures of Earth from space lol? beautiful arrangement and absolutely spectacular.

Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Because God created us to work independently from Himself. Therefore the physical laws exist to stabilize our existence.

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

It does if it needs to work independently.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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6/19/2014 1:48:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

You got a point, but then again, it would be chaos if there was no organized rule structure of where or how things should be placed. It's like saying how to organize and clean your room when your answer is to place it anywhere you want it to be. Might be a poor example, but still, rules and laws are needed to keep order. Even for God.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/19/2014 3:02:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?


Why assume God created with ONLY humans in mind? Why wouldn't God create stuff just for the the fun it? Just like most artists...

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
PeacefulChaos
Posts: 2,610
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6/19/2014 3:14:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

These "laws" are proof that point toward God existing.

For example, humans constantly live in a state of being governed. We must sleep. We must eat. We must drink. And eventually we must submit to death. Necessarily, if there is a state of being governed, it implies the existence of a governor.

We are but contingent beings - that is, we are characterized by our dependency. This is an essential necessity, and so there must be an independent being whose independence is essential. For dependence cannot exist without independence, just as weakness cannot be conceived without power. Poverty exists in this contingent world; necessarily, wealth exists. These things are the nonexistence of another, as ignorance is the nonexistence of knowledge. If there were no existence, nonexistence could not be realized.

The creator of man cannot be like his creation, just as the painter cannot be like his painting. In comparison to the painting, the painter is in the utmost degree of perfection. Likewise, God must possess all perfections in order to have created us. These laws and imperfections demonstrate this.
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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6/19/2014 3:20:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

Personally, I find the biblical theist perspective that an entire universe was created with such granular precision simply to support life on one planet out of nine (I refuse to demote Pluto), in one solar system in billions, in one galaxy in billions... This is one reason I believe gawd to have been an invention of man: the whole story revolves around man.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
irreverent_god
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6/19/2014 3:23:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:33:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

You talking nonsense. "No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands." why God created only 1 moon? why not 10 moons around the earth? it would be more beautiful. why there is only 7 colors? if god can make anything in any time why not world with no laws just fantasies? you cant be more stupid? sorry but now spain vs chile i will come back after the game bobo my love :D:D:D i will miss you :D

Actually, there are only 3 colors (red, yellow, blue), and two toners (black, white). All other colors are combinations of the basic three.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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6/19/2014 3:48:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/19/2014 3:23:58 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:33:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

You talking nonsense. "No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands." why God created only 1 moon? why not 10 moons around the earth? it would be more beautiful. why there is only 7 colors? if god can make anything in any time why not world with no laws just fantasies? you cant be more stupid? sorry but now spain vs chile i will come back after the game bobo my love :D:D:D i will miss you :D

Actually, there are only 3 colors (red, yellow, blue), and two toners (black, white). All other colors are combinations of the basic three.

Actually, i think there are animals that see more colors... or our eyes cant grasp.
Never fart near dog
dattaswami
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6/20/2014 12:51:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is omnipotency "

Omnipotency does not mean that He " does everything, it means only
That He can do anything but He does " that, which is justified only,

Lord created the universe, which include even the laws that control our universe.

Word Dharma means characteristic property which stands for identification of an item. Dharma of fire is burning by which it is identified as fire. It is expected natural behavior of an item in creation. If fire is cool, such coolness is Adharma which means that it is not the expected property of specific entity. Human being in this creation is a specified entity & is expected to show certain characteristic properties (Dharmas) by which he is identified as human being. If human being shows characteristic properties of other specified items, it loses its identification.

When God created various items in this world, He has assigned certain characteristic properties to be associated with corresponding items. So, possession of Dharma is will of God. Balance of creation is maintained when specified items exhibit their specified properties assigned by God. All inert items like fire, water etc. are strictly following will of God. God created this universe for entertainment.

Entertainment is disturbed if natural balance is upset. God has given freedom to human beings, which is inherent desire of souls. God has full freedom to change any characteristic property of any specified item. When He wished, fire could not burn, air could not move & water could not quench even a dry grass blade. Since He is omnipotent, He has unlimited freedom. But souls have very little potentiality. Their freedom is naturally conditional & limited.

Living being has little freedom within its specified boundary of its potentiality. If freedom is not given, it is not a living being. Among living beings, human being has full potentiality due to analytical faculty (Buddhi) & thus relatively more freedom is granted to it. Human being should understand limits of its capability & should freely behave within that specified boundary. Such behavior is Dharma which is expected by God. If limits are violated & behavior of some other category like animals is shown, soul is pushed into life cycle of animals.

At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.
It really is puddle and hole technology.
But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants? : Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.
Xrystiana
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6/20/2014 4:02:59 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

One must not only consider what God created in humanity, but also the reasons for creating it. Mankind was created to worship God in belief, and because of this, God created a system in which his creation would recognize the power and vastness of it's creator in comparison to itself. It creates an atmosphere in which the creation will become inspired by and dependent upon the creator. If the created has no needs for which to seek out it's creator in order to meet, and no perceivable example of the creator's ability and power to meet those needs, then the creation will not perform the desired task for which it was created.
PureX
Posts: 1,528
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6/20/2014 6:08:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is no existence without order (there would be only limitless chaos), and there is no order without "rules" (limitations). If you're asking about why this is so, I think you're just wasting your time. Because there is no way we can conceive of an answer to such a question.
bulproof
Posts: 25,269
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6/20/2014 7:46:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 4:02:59 AM, Xrystiana wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

One must not only consider what God created in humanity, but also the reasons for creating it. Mankind was created to worship God in belief, and because of this, God created a system in which his creation would recognize the power and vastness of it's creator in comparison to itself. It creates an atmosphere in which the creation will become inspired by and dependent upon the creator. If the created has no needs for which to seek out it's creator in order to meet, and no perceivable example of the creator's ability and power to meet those needs, then the creation will not perform the desired task for which it was created.

An infinite, omnipotent god needed worship?

Oh puhhleeeeeease.
ROFL.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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6/20/2014 12:09:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/19/2014 3:48:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/19/2014 3:23:58 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:33:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

You talking nonsense. "No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands." why God created only 1 moon? why not 10 moons around the earth? it would be more beautiful. why there is only 7 colors? if god can make anything in any time why not world with no laws just fantasies? you cant be more stupid? sorry but now spain vs chile i will come back after the game bobo my love :D:D:D i will miss you :D

Actually, there are only 3 colors (red, yellow, blue), and two toners (black, white). All other colors are combinations of the basic three.

Actually, i think there are animals that see more colors... or our eyes cant grasp.

Both the visible and invisible spectrum of light has been pretty well mapped... Are you suggesting that there are animals that have an expanded spectrum, part of which is both invisible, and incalculable to humans? If so, on what do you base this hypothesis?
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
neutral
Posts: 4,478
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6/20/2014 12:28:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

In other words, when confronted with a sound proof that you cannot get around, simply embrace absurdity and change goal posts.

This is basically, why was it done one way when it could have been done another!

Who cares?

It proves nothing save that atheists will come up with ANY excuse to avoid the evidence before them.

If monkey fly ... and suddenly a flying monkey flew right by ...

Well, it shoulda been a flying elephant.

That is all this is.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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6/20/2014 5:49:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 12:09:27 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 6/19/2014 3:48:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/19/2014 3:23:58 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:33:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

You talking nonsense. "No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands." why God created only 1 moon? why not 10 moons around the earth? it would be more beautiful. why there is only 7 colors? if god can make anything in any time why not world with no laws just fantasies? you cant be more stupid? sorry but now spain vs chile i will come back after the game bobo my love :D:D:D i will miss you :D

Actually, there are only 3 colors (red, yellow, blue), and two toners (black, white). All other colors are combinations of the basic three.

Actually, i think there are animals that see more colors... or our eyes cant grasp.

Both the visible and invisible spectrum of light has been pretty well mapped... Are you suggesting that there are animals that have an expanded spectrum, part of which is both invisible, and incalculable to humans? If so, on what do you base this hypothesis?

Ok wait im caling some scientist to clarify the issue here :D
Never fart near dog
Idealist
Posts: 2,520
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6/20/2014 6:19:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

Because the god, omnipotent or not, wants his creation to be able to live in a habitat which supports them naturally. It's the only way they could really be free. Let's face it, an omnipotent God could have made all living things out of stone or chewing-gum if he so wanted, but it would soon become evident that they weren't self-sufficient, and were, in fact, dependent on some "magical" force to give them free mobility. Where would be the free-choice in knowing that we were dependent on a superior being?
Idealist
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6/20/2014 6:23:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:31:21 PM, Envisage wrote:
I don't find this objection very convincing.

This seems to be a ear version if the argument from the existence of non-deities, where if god was tri omni, then his creations should be similarly perfect and powerful.

First, for one I don't see how it quite logically connects that it actually argues against God, it may well be logically non-sensical for unbound deistic beings to exist outside of a universe (which was subsequently finely tuned) while god exists, or in doing so would impinge on god's power.

If for example we accept that god has no free will since he is by definition omnibenevolent, then he would be forced to create beings in a 'limited' or defined universe if free will was the benevolent act which would not impinge on free will.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other better objections, but in either case this line of reasoning seems unconvincing.

An omnipotent God would have to possess the power to change his mind. Having the power to make decisions, he could also decide to make beings that were somehow lesser than himself. In fact, since God would likely have free-choice then I don't see a lot that could limit his creativity.
Envisage
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6/20/2014 6:29:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 6:23:38 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:31:21 PM, Envisage wrote:
I don't find this objection very convincing.

This seems to be a ear version if the argument from the existence of non-deities, where if god was tri omni, then his creations should be similarly perfect and powerful.

First, for one I don't see how it quite logically connects that it actually argues against God, it may well be logically non-sensical for unbound deistic beings to exist outside of a universe (which was subsequently finely tuned) while god exists, or in doing so would impinge on god's power.

If for example we accept that god has no free will since he is by definition omnibenevolent, then he would be forced to create beings in a 'limited' or defined universe if free will was the benevolent act which would not impinge on free will.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other better objections, but in either case this line of reasoning seems unconvincing.

An omnipotent God would have to possess the power to change his mind. Having the power to make decisions, he could also decide to make beings that were somehow lesser than himself. In fact, since God would likely have free-choice then I don't see a lot that could limit his creativity.

He wouldn't if he was omnibenevolent, since his actions must by definition be benevolent ones. Therefore free will in the sense he could have done differently (as we could, assuming free will exists) is not possible for him.

It would affect how he could create things too, since it is a strict definition. That's why the problem of evil is effective, since omnibenevolence is something that is difficult to qualify God of, and very easy to attack, since his actions should be predictable if he is omnibenevolent.
Idealist
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6/20/2014 6:39:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 6:29:06 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/20/2014 6:23:38 PM, Idealist wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:31:21 PM, Envisage wrote:
I don't find this objection very convincing.

This seems to be a ear version if the argument from the existence of non-deities, where if god was tri omni, then his creations should be similarly perfect and powerful.

First, for one I don't see how it quite logically connects that it actually argues against God, it may well be logically non-sensical for unbound deistic beings to exist outside of a universe (which was subsequently finely tuned) while god exists, or in doing so would impinge on god's power.

If for example we accept that god has no free will since he is by definition omnibenevolent, then he would be forced to create beings in a 'limited' or defined universe if free will was the benevolent act which would not impinge on free will.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other better objections, but in either case this line of reasoning seems unconvincing.

An omnipotent God would have to possess the power to change his mind. Having the power to make decisions, he could also decide to make beings that were somehow lesser than himself. In fact, since God would likely have free-choice then I don't see a lot that could limit his creativity.

He wouldn't if he was omnibenevolent, since his actions must by definition be benevolent ones. Therefore free will in the sense he could have done differently (as we could, assuming free will exists) is not possible for him.

It would affect how he could create things too, since it is a strict definition. That's why the problem of evil is effective, since omnibenevolence is something that is difficult to qualify God of, and very easy to attack, since his actions should be predictable if he is omnibenevolent.

Exactly. I was pointing-out how we use our own words to limit the powers of "God," when God is supposed to be omnipotent. You can almost imagine a number of early cultures getting into a series of pissing-contests over who had the most powerful god until finally one of them simply made the brazen claim that their god was omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, and probably had the largest penis to boot. I'm not trying to be irreverent, but the fact that every adjective that exists to describe God happens to be the greatest it can possibly be merely shows a pattern of gross exaggeration along with limited logic.
irreverent_god
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6/20/2014 11:18:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/20/2014 5:49:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/20/2014 12:09:27 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 6/19/2014 3:48:33 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/19/2014 3:23:58 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:33:23 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

You talking nonsense. "No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands." why God created only 1 moon? why not 10 moons around the earth? it would be more beautiful. why there is only 7 colors? if god can make anything in any time why not world with no laws just fantasies? you cant be more stupid? sorry but now spain vs chile i will come back after the game bobo my love :D:D:D i will miss you :D

Actually, there are only 3 colors (red, yellow, blue), and two toners (black, white). All other colors are combinations of the basic three.

Actually, i think there are animals that see more colors... or our eyes cant grasp.

Both the visible and invisible spectrum of light has been pretty well mapped... Are you suggesting that there are animals that have an expanded spectrum, part of which is both invisible, and incalculable to humans? If so, on what do you base this hypothesis?

Ok wait im caling some scientist to clarify the issue here :D

Please do let us know what they say...
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
Measure
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6/21/2014 9:47:15 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

And HE choose this environment! Oh wait, it was without form , void and darkness was upon it. Not a great environment to live in, can't see anything, anything worth seeing anyway.
bulproof
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6/21/2014 9:50:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/21/2014 9:47:15 AM, Measure wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

And HE choose this environment! Oh wait, it was without form , void and darkness was upon it. Not a great environment to live in, can't see anything, anything worth seeing anyway.

So you have the power to restrict your god's capacities. Ok.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Measure
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6/21/2014 9:55:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/21/2014 9:50:49 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/21/2014 9:47:15 AM, Measure wrote:
At 6/18/2014 2:08:34 PM, bulproof wrote:
The fine tuning argument posits that we and the universe wouldn't exist without the laws that control our universe and existence.

It really is puddle and hole technology.

But let me expand a little.

Can't an omnipotent god who wants to create "humans" create them anywhere he wants?
Why would an omnipotent god need laws in order for the "humans" to exist?

Surely it/he/her could create anything in any environment it/he/her chose? No need for the very specific characteristics that fine tuning demands.

And HE choose this environment! Oh wait, it was without form , void and darkness was upon it. Not a great environment to live in, can't see anything, anything worth seeing anyway.

So you have the power to restrict your god's capacities. Ok.

Choice, if that's restrictive for you then OK