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Is God compatible with Materialism?

Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/27/2014 4:09:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am implied to think it is compatible. Materialism is the position that the mind fully reduces to matter, and is just an illusion of matter. Free will is a questionable entity as a result, etc.

I was looking to build a case for materialism as a direct argument against God, but it always seems possible that god is just a substance, or entity that is just different to the universe, and it's mind while being reducible to matter, still qualifies as a God.

Another note, how do you Dualists get over the causal gap problem. Where the mind interacts with the physical, dispute it sharing no properties. To steal rational thinkers' analogy, it is akin to a ghost with no physical properties pushing a ball across a table. It's simply not possible without sharing properties which by definition the mind does not in Dualism.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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6/27/2014 5:02:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:09:21 AM, Envisage wrote:
I am implied to think it is compatible. Materialism is the position that the mind fully reduces to matter, and is just an illusion of matter. Free will is a questionable entity as a result, etc.

No, the traditional concept of God is not compatible with materialism. But there again, materialism is not compatible with reality, so who gives a damn.

http://arxiv.org....
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/27/2014 7:08:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 5:02:09 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:09:21 AM, Envisage wrote:
I am implied to think it is compatible. Materialism is the position that the mind fully reduces to matter, and is just an illusion of matter. Free will is a questionable entity as a result, etc.

No, the traditional concept of God is not compatible with materialism. But there again, materialism is not compatible with reality, so who gives a damn.

http://arxiv.org....

You do know that only falsifies a very narrow sect of materialism, and debatable at that. There isn't one take on materialism, much like there isn't one take on idealism or dualism. Otherwise I could just say brain damage falsifies both of the latter. And we have known that for decades.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/27/2014 8:11:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
With global materialism as in EVERYTHING (including God) is material, reduces to the material, or supervenes on the material? No.

With local materialism (as in just human and aimal minds are material, reduce to the material, or supervene on the material)? Yes. There a plenty of materialist Christian philosophers (Lynne Rudder Baker, Peter Van Inwagen, Trenton Merricks, Kevin Cocoran, Hud Hudson, etc).
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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6/27/2014 8:14:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:09:21 AM, Envisage wrote:

Another note, how do you Dualists get over the causal gap problem. Where the mind interacts with the physical, dispute it sharing no properties. To steal rational thinkers' analogy, it is akin to a ghost with no physical properties pushing a ball across a table. It's simply not possible without sharing properties which by definition the mind does not in Dualism.

This only works against Cartesian dualists and even then I'm not sure it works against them.. There are various forms of substance dualism that allow for shared properties. See: E.J. Lowe's "Non-Cartesian Substance Dualism", William Hasker's "Emergent Dualism", Stewart Goetz's "Ineractive Dualism".
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/27/2014 8:16:04 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 8:14:27 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:09:21 AM, Envisage wrote:

Another note, how do you Dualists get over the causal gap problem. Where the mind interacts with the physical, dispute it sharing no properties. To steal rational thinkers' analogy, it is akin to a ghost with no physical properties pushing a ball across a table. It's simply not possible without sharing properties which by definition the mind does not in Dualism.

This only works against Cartesian dualists and even then I'm not sure it works against them.. There are various forms of substance dualism that allow for shared properties. See: E.J. Lowe's "Non-Cartesian Substance Dualism", William Hasker's "Emergent Dualism", Stewart Goetz's "Ineractive Dualism".

Oh, I will look them up.
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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6/27/2014 10:11:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:09:21 AM, Envisage wrote:
I am implied to think it is compatible. Materialism is the position that the mind fully reduces to matter, and is just an illusion of matter. Free will is a questionable entity as a result, etc.

I was looking to build a case for materialism as a direct argument against God, but it always seems possible that god is just a substance, or entity that is just different to the universe, and it's mind while being reducible to matter, still qualifies as a God.

Another note, how do you Dualists get over the causal gap problem. Where the mind interacts with the physical, dispute it sharing no properties. To steal rational thinkers' analogy, it is akin to a ghost with no physical properties pushing a ball across a table. It's simply not possible without sharing properties which by definition the mind does not in Dualism.

God is not compatible with materialism as he exists outside of it.