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Blade-of-Truth
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6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?
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DPMartin
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6/27/2014 10:25:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
You might be misinformed as to the truth about the view of the God described in the bible in the case of good and evil, and who wins or loses. When you come into the world you receive the life your parents gave you through the life they received which goes back to Adam and Eve. In the case of salvation through Jesus Christ. He came into the world and gave His Life to us, which restores us to the life Adam and Eve had before they lost it by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Hence in reality there is a place for evil but it isn"t suppose to be the world nor mankind. God hates death, and sent His Son to give us opportunity for Life eternal. The world and mankind is for the fulfillment of God"s Word in the earth. And the removal of the opposition to that, is a part of what is in progress.

The life you have been given requires certain things, like belief, trust, faith. You are required to place those things on something. And if you look at your daily life, you do that daily in respect to the things you do and or participate in. You trust the food you eat that it won"t kill you and it will sustain your body, why? Could it be that you trust the source thereof?
12_13
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6/27/2014 3:50:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

I think you can freely decide what the point of your life is. I recommend choosing to love others as Jesus told.
Blade-of-Truth
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6/28/2014 4:04:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 10:25:17 AM, DPMartin wrote:
You might be misinformed as to the truth about the view of the God described in the bible in the case of good and evil, and who wins or loses. When you come into the world you receive the life your parents gave you through the life they received which goes back to Adam and Eve. In the case of salvation through Jesus Christ. He came into the world and gave His Life to us, which restores us to the life Adam and Eve had before they lost it by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Hence in reality there is a place for evil but it isn"t suppose to be the world nor mankind. God hates death, and sent His Son to give us opportunity for Life eternal. The world and mankind is for the fulfillment of God"s Word in the earth. And the removal of the opposition to that, is a part of what is in progress.

I attended a Private Baptist school from Pre-K to 8th grade. I know full and well what is at work here. I also understand that evil originally had no place in this world, according to scripture. What I am saying is, why must we suffer for the sins committed by adam and eve? Why are we thrown into this existence where we are supposed to make a choice when the winner has already been determined according to scripture? Wouldn't that just make all of this a waste of time?

The life you have been given requires certain things, like belief, trust, faith. You are required to place those things on something. And if you look at your daily life, you do that daily in respect to the things you do and or participate in. You trust the food you eat that it won"t kill you and it will sustain your body, why? Could it be that you trust the source thereof?

Why was I given this life? I did not ask for this life, and if I did, I do not remember asking... do you?

I also don't trust most of the food I'm eating, but that is a whole other issue that I am currently working to correct by maintaining and expanding my personal garden and (someday) livestock.

I don't get the food point tying into the source question. Could you re-state that point?
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Blade-of-Truth
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6/28/2014 4:05:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 3:50:51 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

I think you can freely decide what the point of your life is. I recommend choosing to love others as Jesus told.

Isn't that just choosing one side of the dualistic experience we are exposed to in this life? Are we not meant to transcend both sides and find the synthesis between the extreme ends of Good or Evil? Why must it be one or the other?
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Hematite12
Posts: 400
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6/28/2014 4:07:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/28/2014 4:04:39 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/27/2014 10:25:17 AM, DPMartin wrote:
You might be misinformed as to the truth about the view of the God described in the bible in the case of good and evil, and who wins or loses. When you come into the world you receive the life your parents gave you through the life they received which goes back to Adam and Eve. In the case of salvation through Jesus Christ. He came into the world and gave His Life to us, which restores us to the life Adam and Eve had before they lost it by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Hence in reality there is a place for evil but it isn"t suppose to be the world nor mankind. God hates death, and sent His Son to give us opportunity for Life eternal. The world and mankind is for the fulfillment of God"s Word in the earth. And the removal of the opposition to that, is a part of what is in progress.

I attended a Private Baptist school from Pre-K to 8th grade. I know full and well what is at work here. I also understand that evil originally had no place in this world, according to scripture. What I am saying is, why must we suffer for the sins committed by adam and eve? Why are we thrown into this existence where we are supposed to make a choice when the winner has already been determined according to scripture? Wouldn't that just make all of this a waste of time?


If you want to be religious, I recommend checking out dualistic religions.

The life you have been given requires certain things, like belief, trust, faith. You are required to place those things on something. And if you look at your daily life, you do that daily in respect to the things you do and or participate in. You trust the food you eat that it won"t kill you and it will sustain your body, why? Could it be that you trust the source thereof?

Why was I given this life? I did not ask for this life, and if I did, I do not remember asking... do you?

I also don't trust most of the food I'm eating, but that is a whole other issue that I am currently working to correct by maintaining and expanding my personal garden and (someday) livestock.

I don't get the food point tying into the source question. Could you re-state that point?
Blade-of-Truth
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6/28/2014 4:56:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/28/2014 4:07:53 PM, Hematite12 wrote:
At 6/28/2014 4:04:39 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/27/2014 10:25:17 AM, DPMartin wrote:
You might be misinformed as to the truth about the view of the God described in the bible in the case of good and evil, and who wins or loses. When you come into the world you receive the life your parents gave you through the life they received which goes back to Adam and Eve. In the case of salvation through Jesus Christ. He came into the world and gave His Life to us, which restores us to the life Adam and Eve had before they lost it by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Hence in reality there is a place for evil but it isn"t suppose to be the world nor mankind. God hates death, and sent His Son to give us opportunity for Life eternal. The world and mankind is for the fulfillment of God"s Word in the earth. And the removal of the opposition to that, is a part of what is in progress.

I attended a Private Baptist school from Pre-K to 8th grade. I know full and well what is at work here. I also understand that evil originally had no place in this world, according to scripture. What I am saying is, why must we suffer for the sins committed by adam and eve? Why are we thrown into this existence where we are supposed to make a choice when the winner has already been determined according to scripture? Wouldn't that just make all of this a waste of time?


If you want to be religious, I recommend checking out dualistic religions.

Lol, no. I want to transcend beyond the state of duality. Hence these questions I'm posing to those who subscribe to dualistic religions which includes any that worship the God of Abraham.

The life you have been given requires certain things, like belief, trust, faith. You are required to place those things on something. And if you look at your daily life, you do that daily in respect to the things you do and or participate in. You trust the food you eat that it won"t kill you and it will sustain your body, why? Could it be that you trust the source thereof?

Why was I given this life? I did not ask for this life, and if I did, I do not remember asking... do you?

I also don't trust most of the food I'm eating, but that is a whole other issue that I am currently working to correct by maintaining and expanding my personal garden and (someday) livestock.

I don't get the food point tying into the source question. Could you re-state that point?
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skuu
Posts: 9
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6/29/2014 9:19:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Blade, would you be interested in an atheistic perspective, or are you only asking theists?
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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6/29/2014 9:37:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans. Everything is being controlled and the concept of sin and good cant be considered true. Religion is just illiogical and a creation of humans.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
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6/29/2014 1:14:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 9:19:07 AM, skuu wrote:
Blade, would you be interested in an atheistic perspective,

Sure. I don't see why I should throw that perspective out! Please, if you can, provide answers from an atheistic position.

or are you only asking theists?

No, I'll extend the questions to both camps. It's not fair to me if I only hear the answers from one side but not the other. So far, theists haven't answered jack sh*t in regards to my questions.
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12_13
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6/29/2014 1:29:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/28/2014 4:05:46 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Are we not meant to transcend both sides and find the synthesis between the extreme ends of Good or Evil? Why must it be one or the other?

I think there is nothing between them, just good or evil. And don"t see any good reason why people should have anything evil.
12_13
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6/29/2014 1:31:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 9:37:56 AM, debateuser wrote:
Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans.

I disagree with that. If person knows other person well enough, he can know what the other does in every situation and there is no need to influence to free will.
skuu
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6/29/2014 1:56:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 1:14:40 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Sure. I don't see why I should throw that perspective out! Please, if you can, provide answers from an atheistic position.

It depends if you want me to answer regarding how I think that question can be answered assuming the Christian god exists. I guess it's a bit pointless for an atheist to answer since we can just say 'there's no god, so no problems arise from contradictory points that assume god's existence'.

But assuming god is real, I'd say that humans can only get meaning via god. Ultimately they can't have independent personal meaning in life that is only for them self. If god created us to have a relationship with him and find him, then that's what we do, despite of any futility involved.

Hope that helped in some way :)
debateuser
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6/29/2014 2:24:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 1:31:31 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:37:56 AM, debateuser wrote:
Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans.

I disagree with that. If person knows other person well enough, he can know what the other does in every situation and there is no need to influence to free will.

nobody can know a person well enough to exactly predict what they will do. You know your family members well enough but can you exactly predict a divorce? A person does not even know himself that well enough.
If you know exactly then you have programmed them to follow a way for example robots. Religions at one place are claiming that free will exists and at the other claiming prophecies and sin and good. And you are also talking about a creator God. If God crates humans and can exactly tell what they will do then it means God knows what he has made . Perhaps he should have made them differently if he knows before how sinful his creations are. So in other words Gods knows who will be a sinner but at the same time wants to punish them for his own( God's) deliberate action. Scientists know what their robots will do because they have programmed them to behave in that way. If robots were not bound by any programming then how will the scientists exactly know how will the robot behave. Just ask any Robot manufacturer about this point. Lol. Religion is just illogical.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/29/2014 4:42:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?
So we know that God will prevail.

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

So that we know God will prevail, as well as believers.

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

Huh? First...we except Christ and what He did, then we begin to change, and then we begin to repent and change, and repent. The Christian lifestyle is a development, an ongoing commitment.
And why would you not want to repent anyways? sin isn't that great, at least not compared to spiritual things.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

If you abide in Him.


Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Who do you want to win?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?


Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Sounds like calvinism to me, you should really look into that, I think it's disgusting with a twist of misconceptions.
Blade-of-Truth
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6/29/2014 6:55:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 1:29:19 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 6/28/2014 4:05:46 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Are we not meant to transcend both sides and find the synthesis between the extreme ends of Good or Evil? Why must it be one or the other?

I think there is nothing between them, just good or evil. And don"t see any good reason why people should have anything evil.

Well, it wouldn't necessarily be something between them, but rather a perfect synthesis from mixing both together. I don't want to create a option C when it comes to good begin A and evil being B. I just want to move past having only those two options.

I feel like we are bogged down by the presence of both extremes and that there is a middle ground to be had where we realize there is good in evil and evil in good. Like the Ying-Yang symbol and what it stands for.

I don't believe we were placed here to choose between one side or the other. I feel there was much greater pursuits to be had but that we are currently blinded from those pursuits by this constant trap of the cyclic nature of duality.
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Blade-of-Truth
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6/29/2014 7:00:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 1:56:42 PM, skuu wrote:
At 6/29/2014 1:14:40 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Sure. I don't see why I should throw that perspective out! Please, if you can, provide answers from an atheistic position.

It depends if you want me to answer regarding how I think that question can be answered assuming the Christian god exists. I guess it's a bit pointless for an atheist to answer since we can just say 'there's no god, so no problems arise from contradictory points that assume god's existence'.

But assuming god is real, I'd say that humans can only get meaning via god. Ultimately they can't have independent personal meaning in life that is only for them self. If god created us to have a relationship with him and find him, then that's what we do, despite of any futility involved.

Hope that helped in some way :)

I guess it does. I understand what you mean about answering those from an atheistic perspective. I'm not even trying to bash on Theists by posing such questions - simply trying to see if anyone can answer them from a theistic position as they appear quite illogical and somewhat futile (as you pointed out).
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GodChoosesLife
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6/29/2014 7:18:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

God be glorified.

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?
God be glorified.

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

To repent is not to ask for forgiveness or feel remorse or feel guilty. To repent is to have a change of mind to turn from something you once loved. Such as if you were in a store and wanted something so bad, let's say,,... I've cream, .. You wanted ice cream so bad, but you didn't have money if you stole it obviously you just committed a crime, but if you don't take it rather turn and walk away to leave, guess what you just did? Repented... And btw, to repent is not just doing it once, it's a daily thing a Christian does... Same principal follows with God... Also, you cannot accept God, He must accept you... But you have to see your sin for what it is as a human being...

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?
The point is, do YOU know it and see it yourself? Yes, God knows and already predestined all things, but we as humans fail to see the purpose within ourselves. God in His sovereignty reveals things to those who will come to know Him... Some never come to know Him because they choose to continue doing what they do because they've blinded themselves to seeing what's right in front of them to which God reveals...

Did our souls sign up for this?
There's no signing up for anything. It just is.

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?
I never signed up for anything, God chose to give us all life even in our willingness to sin. How gracious and merciful and patient He is too...

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Ultimately, this question should be answered within our OWN hearts. Where do we see ourselves? As people slaved to our will to sin and disobey God? Or as people saved by grace and obedient to God? This is our own heart evaluation, not God since He ALREADY KNOWS. Hope this answers your questions. Let me know if you have anymore. I'll be ready to answer.

Marie
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
Blade-of-Truth
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6/29/2014 7:22:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 4:42:45 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?
So we know that God will prevail.

Okay, I can see that. My point was that it is useless choosing the losing side unless you doubt the word of the Bible. I see now that it all ties into faith that the Bible is indeed the word of God.

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

So that we know God will prevail, as well as believers.

Another fair response.

My point was basically what is the point of this test called Life? If God is already going to win, why even have the exercise? It seems as if this whole thing is useless. The Bible says God will win, yet here we are, still being thrown into this existence and being pressed with a choice. God is going to win though - so why put off the inevitable? Is there a certain number of humans that must be born before the final battle goes down, I just don't understand the wait...

It's like Mike Tyson is predicted to beat his opponent, and yet we are still waiting for the auditorium to fill when his victory is already guaranteed by the ultimate source of knowledge. So from a theistic perspective, where we already fully believe that Mike Tyson will win, what is the point to even watching or being there for the fight? Why are they even requiring an audience when the victory is already sealed ahead of time ya know?

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

Huh? First...we except Christ and what He did, then we begin to change, and then we begin to repent and change, and repent. The Christian lifestyle is a development, an ongoing commitment.

Fair response.

And why would you not want to repent anyways? sin isn't that great, at least not compared to spiritual things.

Well, my understanding is that if we sin and repent we will be saved. But if we sin and fail to repent we are not going to meet salvation. What is the point of even presenting that choice? So that those who doubt God will meet eternal damnation? I don't see the point when the fight has already been declared over by God and the Bible. Why even give us the choice of not repenting while knowing that some humans feel their doubts are justified?

Isn't that like spanking a dog for eating some meat after you placed it in front of him and then walked out of the room? Is it not your fault for not thinking that the dog's basic instinct is to eat the meat? Perhaps this is a loose example, and if my point is not getting across I can try again to clarify this point further if you need me to.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

If you abide in Him.


Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Who do you want to win?

Don't know yet... Neither side has convinced me that they are the right choice. For me, if I was the Devil, the greatest trick I would play on mankind is making them think the God they believe in is the right god. For instance, I've studied the word 'Amen' enough to know that when placed at the end of a Christian prayer you are actually redirecting that prayer to another god that isn't Yahweh. I'm also just imagining myself as the Devil and know that it would be entirely feasible to manipulate the later translators of the original Bible and the law-makers of those times to alter certain passages to my favor. Especially if Yahweh has been a non-interventionist since the Old Testament i.e, absent from physical actions or manifestations. I just say that based off his apparent interest in humans affairs back in the OT days, but then just giving his son and disappearing in the NT days.

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?


Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Sounds like calvinism to me, you should really look into that, I think it's disgusting with a twist of misconceptions.

Unfortunately, I don't know too much about Calvinism, especially in regards to the specific questions you are attaching that ideology to. Could you expand on this a little please?
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Blade-of-Truth
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6/29/2014 7:33:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:18:32 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

God be glorified.

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?
God be glorified.

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

To repent is not to ask for forgiveness or feel remorse or feel guilty. To repent is to have a change of mind to turn from something you once loved. Such as if you were in a store and wanted something so bad, let's say,,... I've cream, .. You wanted ice cream so bad, but you didn't have money if you stole it obviously you just committed a crime, but if you don't take it rather turn and walk away to leave, guess what you just did? Repented... And btw, to repent is not just doing it once, it's a daily thing a Christian does... Same principal follows with God... Also, you cannot accept God, He must accept you... But you have to see your sin for what it is as a human being...

How do you know if God accepts you? Like, not how do YOU know if it's true, but like, is there an emotion I'll be overcome with or something? Are there any signs that God has accepted someone?

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?
The point is, do YOU know it and see it yourself? Yes, God knows and already predestined all things, but we as humans fail to see the purpose within ourselves. God in His sovereignty reveals things to those who will come to know Him... Some never come to know Him because they choose to continue doing what they do because they've blinded themselves to seeing what's right in front of them to which God reveals...

Did our souls sign up for this?
There's no signing up for anything. It just is.

Is that fair? Or is it just God's will and I'll have to accept it or not?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?
I never signed up for anything, God chose to give us all life even in our willingness to sin. How gracious and merciful and patient He is too...

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Ultimately, this question should be answered within our OWN hearts. Where do we see ourselves? As people slaved to our will to sin and disobey God? Or as people saved by grace and obedient to God? This is our own heart evaluation, not God since He ALREADY KNOWS. Hope this answers your questions. Let me know if you have anymore. I'll be ready to answer.

Marie

<3
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GodChoosesLife
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6/29/2014 7:42:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 4:42:45 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?
So we know that God will prevail.

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

So that we know God will prevail, as well as believers.

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

Huh? First...we except Christ and what He did, then we begin to change, and then we begin to repent and change, and repent. The Christian lifestyle is a development, an ongoing commitment.
And why would you not want to repent anyways? sin isn't that great, at least not compared to spiritual things.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

If you abide in Him.


Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Who do you want to win?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?


Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Sounds like calvinism to me, you should really look into that, I think it's disgusting with a twist of misconceptions.
You don't agree to Calvinism??
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
GodChoosesLife
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6/29/2014 7:48:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:33:35 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:18:32 PM, GodChoosesLife wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

God be glorified.

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?
God be glorified.

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

To repent is not to ask for forgiveness or feel remorse or feel guilty. To repent is to have a change of mind to turn from something you once loved. Such as if you were in a store and wanted something so bad, let's say,,... I've cream, .. You wanted ice cream so bad, but you didn't have money if you stole it obviously you just committed a crime, but if you don't take it rather turn and walk away to leave, guess what you just did? Repented... And btw, to repent is not just doing it once, it's a daily thing a Christian does... Same principal follows with God... Also, you cannot accept God, He must accept you... But you have to see your sin for what it is as a human being...

How do you know if God accepts you? Like, not how do YOU know if it's true, but like, is there an emotion I'll be overcome with or something? Are there any signs that God has accepted someone?

As I said above, we must acknowledge our sin as it is and once we've seen it within ourselves it will be easy to see that because of God's love for us His Son, Christ Jesus, chose to sacrifice Himself on our behalf so that we can be saved through repentance (daily) and believing in Him... This is how we will know is by having faith in this!

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?
The point is, do YOU know it and see it yourself? Yes, God knows and already predestined all things, but we as humans fail to see the purpose within ourselves. God in His sovereignty reveals things to those who will come to know Him... Some never come to know Him because they choose to continue doing what they do because they've blinded themselves to seeing what's right in front of them to which God reveals...

Did our souls sign up for this?
There's no signing up for anything. It just is.

Is that fair? Or is it just God's will and I'll have to accept it or not?

It is fair. God's will is always a will even if to us it's not. So, yes, you can either believe that or not.

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?
I never signed up for anything, God chose to give us all life even in our willingness to sin. How gracious and merciful and patient He is too...

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Ultimately, this question should be answered within our OWN hearts. Where do we see ourselves? As people slaved to our will to sin and disobey God? Or as people saved by grace and obedient to God? This is our own heart evaluation, not God since He ALREADY KNOWS. Hope this answers your questions. Let me know if you have anymore. I'll be ready to answer.

Marie

<3
Better than deserved, as ALWAYS.
"The strongest principle of growth lies in human choices."
"The Lord doesn't promise us a perfect life that is free of problems, but he does promise that He'll get us through anything." ~SweeTea
"Good Times" ~ Max
"If Jesus isn't in heaven, then it's not heaven; instead, it's hell." ~anonymous
"Suffering is unimaginably confusing, but it's a way to be drawn closer to God" ~Me
"Tell me what consumes your heart most, and I'll tell you who your God is." ~Dad
matt.mcguire88
Posts: 1,137
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6/30/2014 11:05:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:22:51 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/29/2014 4:42:45 PM, matt.mcguire88 wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?
So we know that God will prevail.

Okay, I can see that. My point was that it is useless choosing the losing side unless you doubt the word of the Bible. I see now that it all ties into faith that the Bible is indeed the word of God.

Well the focus is more about what you'd rather serve as an individual now, while your alive. But why would anyone want to choose the loosing side? God has made it easy to choose lol...

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

So that we know God will prevail, as well as believers.

Another fair response.

My point was basically what is the point of this test called Life? If God is already going to win, why even have the exercise? It seems as if this whole thing is useless. The Bible says God will win, yet here we are, still being thrown into this existence and being pressed with a choice. God is going to win though - so why put off the inevitable? Is there a certain number of humans that must be born before the final battle goes down, I just don't understand the wait...

Because the exercise is for YOU, for you to choose. God winning has nothing to do with the choice you make. And yes there is an appointed time, time has yet to reveal.

It's like Mike Tyson is predicted to beat his opponent, and yet we are still waiting for the auditorium to fill when his victory is already guaranteed by the ultimate source of knowledge. So from a theistic perspective, where we already fully believe that Mike Tyson will win, what is the point to even watching or being there for the fight? Why are they even requiring an audience when the victory is already sealed ahead of time ya know?

Our existence is not for the cause of watching God kick Satan's butt lol, that's another matter, our existence has a specific "purpose" and our purpose on earth is to connect with God on a spiritual level.

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

Huh? First...we except Christ and what He did, then we begin to change, and then we begin to repent and change, and repent. The Christian lifestyle is a development, an ongoing commitment.

Fair response.

And why would you not want to repent anyways? sin isn't that great, at least not compared to spiritual things.

Well, my understanding is that if we sin and repent we will be saved. But if we sin and fail to repent we are not going to meet salvation. What is the point of even presenting that choice? So that those who doubt God will meet eternal damnation? I don't see the point when the fight has already been declared over by God and the Bible. Why even give us the choice of not repenting while knowing that some humans feel their doubts are justified?

I'm having a hard time really seeing your points here, they seem almost irrelevant, not trying to insult you. I'm not understanding this battle scenario and how it's relevant to our cause. The point, is first draw nigh to God, changing is a process, spiritual growth is inside the Christian life style, it's in our actions, choices and our devotion and love towards God. Our basic premise we should pursue in a day is basically
Matthew 6:33
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


Isn't that like spanking a dog for eating some meat after you placed it in front of him and then walked out of the room? Is it not your fault for not thinking that the dog's basic instinct is to eat the meat? Perhaps this is a loose example, and if my point is not getting across I can try again to clarify this point further if you need me to.

God has given us the capacity with His guidance to have authority over our mind and thoughts. This is where as a Christian we trust and rely on Him. God doesn't watch you like a dog, He want to be in on it, with you, your spirit is meant to emanate through your entire being.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

If you abide in Him.


Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

The point is for you, not God....

Who do you want to win?

Don't know yet... Neither side has convinced me that they are the right choice. For me, if I was the Devil, the greatest trick I would play on mankind is making them think the God they believe in is the right god. For instance, I've studied the word 'Amen' enough to know that when placed at the end of a Christian prayer you are actually redirecting that prayer to another god that isn't Yahweh. I'm also just imagining myself as the Devil and know that it would be entirely feasible to manipulate the later translators of the original Bible and the law-makers of those times to alter certain passages to my favor. Especially if Yahweh has been a non-interventionist since the Old Testament i.e, absent from physical actions or manifestations. I just say that based off his apparent interest in humans affairs back in the OT days, but then just giving his son and disappearing in the NT days.

I don't know what you want from me here lol...

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?


Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Sounds like calvinism to me, you should really look into that, I think it's disgusting with a twist of misconceptions.

Unfortunately, I don't know too much about Calvinism, especially in regards to the specific questions you are attaching that ideology to. Could you expand on this a little please?

Calvinism is a very unfortunate belief system, one that makes me very ill, based on a pocket full of scriptures that "justify" this position even in light of much more that contradict it. But I'd rather leave people to their views. If you google it, it should be pretty clear. Basically it's the belief in the total complete "sovereign" control of God over everything, including mens choices and the destination of their souls.
12_13
Posts: 1,365
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6/30/2014 4:08:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 2:24:08 PM, debateuser wrote:
If you know exactly then you have programmed them to follow a way for example robots.

So if I know what you answer to this, I have programmed you?

If I know what computer does, I have programmed it?
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/30/2014 4:25:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

Where?

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

The Bible teaches that Christianity would be victorious over its persecutors, but that happened 1700-1900 years ago.


I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

That has nothing to do with God or good winning or losing.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

You'd have to do more than that. That sounds like something Billy Graham came up with in order to coax deluded souls down the aisle.

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Your going to heaven or hell is not a win/lose for God.

Did our souls sign up for this?

Nope

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Nope

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Your post makes no sense at all.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/30/2014 4:28:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 9:37:56 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans. Everything is being controlled and the concept of sin and good cant be considered true. Religion is just illiogical and a creation of humans.

You know better than that. Religion claims that God has the power to know the future - not that He exercises such power regularly. Hence, yes, there are examples where God indeed knew the future. There are plenty of other examples in which the future was left indeterminate.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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6/30/2014 5:14:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 4:08:45 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 6/29/2014 2:24:08 PM, debateuser wrote:
If you know exactly then you have programmed them to follow a way for example robots.

So if I know what you answer to this, I have programmed you?

You can't exactly know what a person will do. You dont even know about yourself that much.

If I know what computer does, I have programmed it?

What a computer does. You either know it if you have read about it or may be invented it.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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6/30/2014 5:24:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 4:28:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:37:56 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans. Everything is being controlled and the concept of sin and good cant be considered true. Religion is just illiogical and a creation of humans.

You know better than that. Religion claims that God has the power to know the future - not that He exercises such power regularly. Hence, yes, there are examples where God indeed knew the future. There are plenty of other examples in which the future was left indeterminate.

If you claim to tell about an event thousands of years from now.'What does it mean. You exactly know the events that will occur in between. If there is even a slight miscalculation then the future prophecy will be false. For example if a God prophecies that john will die on 11 December 2015 because of cancer but God is not able to control the discovery of a cure of cancer and John's access to it. Then the prophecy will fail.
How can you know all that if you have not programmed anything. I think the concept of sin and good and prophecies can not coexist. If religion is claiming that it is only because humans want to use it for their own advantage. What better way would be to tell people that it is God's will. Apparently the alleged God asked dubya to invade Iraq. Lol
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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http://www.debate.org...
annanicole
Posts: 19,791
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6/30/2014 5:32:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 5:24:03 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/30/2014 4:28:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:37:56 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans. Everything is being controlled and the concept of sin and good cant be considered true. Religion is just illiogical and a creation of humans.

You know better than that. Religion claims that God has the power to know the future - not that He exercises such power regularly. Hence, yes, there are examples where God indeed knew the future. There are plenty of other examples in which the future was left indeterminate.

If you claim to tell about an event thousands of years from now.

What event?

'What does it mean. You exactly know the events that will occur in between. If there is even a slight miscalculation then the future prophecy will be false. For example if a God prophecies that john will die on 11 December 2015 because of cancer but God is not able to control the discovery of a cure of cancer and John's access to it.

But God does not prophesy anything like that, nor exercise any control whatsoever over it.

Then the prophecy will fail.
How can you know all that if you have not programmed anything.

Know what?

I think the concept of sin and good and prophecies can not coexist. If religion is claiming that it is only because humans want to use it for their own advantage. What better way would be to tell people that it is God's will. Apparently the alleged God asked dubya to invade Iraq. Lol

Who said God has anything in the world to do with Iraq? The Scriptures never speak of a modern invasion of Iraq.

I truly do not know where you are coming up with this stuff. Nobody said a word about God knowing about a man dying of cancer or an invasion of Iraq. I've never claimed He exercised any power to know about either one.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
debateuser
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6/30/2014 5:54:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 5:32:11 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2014 5:24:03 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/30/2014 4:28:52 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:37:56 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/27/2014 4:17:44 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
the Bible already predicts the winner of the ultimate battle between good and evil, then what is the point?

The Bible says that God will win, so what is the point to any of this?

I don't get it. If I sin, and fail to repent, I will go to Hell for all of eternity.

If I repent for my sins, and accept Christ as my savior, I'll meet salvation.

Either way, God will win. So... what's the point?

Did our souls sign up for this?

I don't recall signing up for this challenge... do you?

Even if we did sign up for this, while also not remembering (pre-life), what is the point of it when the winner has already been declared?

Are we meant to either accept the pre-determined winner or face eternal damnation?

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans. Everything is being controlled and the concept of sin and good cant be considered true. Religion is just illiogical and a creation of humans.

You know better than that. Religion claims that God has the power to know the future - not that He exercises such power regularly. Hence, yes, there are examples where God indeed knew the future. There are plenty of other examples in which the future was left indeterminate.

If you claim to tell about an event thousands of years from now.

What event?

Return of the Jews for example.

'What does it mean. You exactly know the events that will occur in between. If there is even a slight miscalculation then the future prophecy will be false. For example if a God prophecies that john will die on 11 December 2015 because of cancer but God is not able to control the discovery of a cure of cancer and John's access to it.

But God does not prophesy anything like that, nor exercise any control whatsoever over it.

Then the prophecy can't be true because there is no more chance of it being true than assuming head or tails. But the Bible claims that the prophecies are going to be fully fulfilled.

Then the prophecy will fail.
How can you know all that if you have not programmed anything.

Know what?

Prophecy about future events. God claims to know that according to the Bible.

I think the concept of sin and good and prophecies can not coexist. If religion is claiming that it is only because humans want to use it for their own advantage. What better way would be to tell people that it is God's will. Apparently the alleged God asked dubya to invade Iraq. Lol

Who said God has anything in the world to do with Iraq? The Scriptures never speak of a modern invasion of Iraq.

I truly do not know where you are coming up with this stuff. Nobody said a word about God knowing about a man dying of cancer or an invasion of Iraq. I've never claimed He exercised any power to know about either one.

It was just for an example to show that the concept of sin and good can not co-exist with prophecies. And such a contradiction exists because religion is man made.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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