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Why won't god prove itself to everyone

bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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6/29/2014 9:14:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Kinda reminds me of this video.
Installgentoo
Posts: 1,420
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6/29/2014 9:29:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 9:14:21 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Kinda reminds me of this video.


Wow, Darkmatter2525 can't draw for sh1t.
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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6/29/2014 9:30:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 9:29:00 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:14:21 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Kinda reminds me of this video.


Wow, Darkmatter2525 can't draw for sh1t.

You should see some of his newer ones. Besides, he goes for quality of the script.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/29/2014 9:41:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 9:29:00 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:14:21 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Kinda reminds me of this video.


Wow, Darkmatter2525 can't draw for sh1t.

As the newt would say.
You are just a hateful insulting thing that I don't know the word for and should be banned from life for the rest of your wife. Just slop being such a confidence that can't illuminate what you claim is always god's satanic ice creams.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/29/2014 10:05:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.

No way Jose' or was that Jesus, I'm always confused.
An omnipotent god could turn up in front of you in your lounge room and slap you silly until you believed that he was real, or just get in your brain and make it a fact that he exists. We're talking about an omnipotent god here.

What's so hard for an omnipotent god to do?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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6/29/2014 10:36:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 10:05:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.

No way Jose' or was that Jesus, I'm always confused.
An omnipotent god could turn up in front of you in your lounge room and slap you silly until you believed that he was real, or just get in your brain and make it a fact that he exists. We're talking about an omnipotent god here.

What's so hard for an omnipotent god to do?

But then again, if he did the brain thing, free will doesnt exist since you don't have a choice to make fact or fiction in your decision making.

I'd agree with the slapping thing, but I doubt God is going to go with such a childish "pinch me" method.

I always call Jesus, Yeshua.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/29/2014 10:45:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 10:36:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:05:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.

No way Jose' or was that Jesus, I'm always confused.
An omnipotent god could turn up in front of you in your lounge room and slap you silly until you believed that he was real, or just get in your brain and make it a fact that he exists. We're talking about an omnipotent god here.

What's so hard for an omnipotent god to do?

But then again, if he did the brain thing, free will doesnt exist since you don't have a choice to make fact or fiction in your decision making.

I'd agree with the slapping thing, but I doubt God is going to go with such a childish "pinch me" method.

I always call Jesus, Yeshua.

So if god proves that he exists he will defeat man's free will to obey him? Obeying him is how he wants you to get to heaven. Is that HIS argument?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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6/29/2014 10:53:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 10:45:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:36:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:05:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.

No way Jose' or was that Jesus, I'm always confused.
An omnipotent god could turn up in front of you in your lounge room and slap you silly until you believed that he was real, or just get in your brain and make it a fact that he exists. We're talking about an omnipotent god here.

What's so hard for an omnipotent god to do?

But then again, if he did the brain thing, free will doesnt exist since you don't have a choice to make fact or fiction in your decision making.

I'd agree with the slapping thing, but I doubt God is going to go with such a childish "pinch me" method.

I always call Jesus, Yeshua.

So if god proves that he exists he will defeat man's free will to obey him? Obeying him is how he wants you to get to heaven. Is that HIS argument?

God wants to prove himself through somebody loving and WANTING him. Not being forced to by God coming in and mind raping. God isn't going to just go in somebody's brain and make a switch happen where they believe because that's denying free will to believe or not.
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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6/29/2014 10:58:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

He has through Jesus Christ, are you willing to accept him? :-)
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/29/2014 11:02:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 10:53:07 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:45:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:36:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:05:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.

No way Jose' or was that Jesus, I'm always confused.
An omnipotent god could turn up in front of you in your lounge room and slap you silly until you believed that he was real, or just get in your brain and make it a fact that he exists. We're talking about an omnipotent god here.

What's so hard for an omnipotent god to do?

But then again, if he did the brain thing, free will doesnt exist since you don't have a choice to make fact or fiction in your decision making.

I'd agree with the slapping thing, but I doubt God is going to go with such a childish "pinch me" method.

I always call Jesus, Yeshua.

So if god proves that he exists he will defeat man's free will to obey him? Obeying him is how he wants you to get to heaven. Is that HIS argument?

God wants to prove himself through somebody loving and WANTING him. Not being forced to by God coming in and mind raping. God isn't going to just go in somebody's brain and make a switch happen where they believe because that's denying free will to believe or not.

Do you think that if the god of ultimate power turned up to you and to every other person on the planet simultaneously and proved to everyone of them that he was the god of ultimate power that some people wouldn't believe? Do you think that such a small number of people would make a difference to the world we live in? Do you think that this god couldn't just send them all off to hell if he so desired and knew he would from before eternity that he wouldn't. How could he not?

Every person on the planet would obey this god's commands because they would know this god. Wouldn't that achieve this gods ultimate plan of having everyone in heaven?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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6/29/2014 11:20:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 11:02:05 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:53:07 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:45:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:36:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:05:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.

No way Jose' or was that Jesus, I'm always confused.
An omnipotent god could turn up in front of you in your lounge room and slap you silly until you believed that he was real, or just get in your brain and make it a fact that he exists. We're talking about an omnipotent god here.

What's so hard for an omnipotent god to do?

But then again, if he did the brain thing, free will doesnt exist since you don't have a choice to make fact or fiction in your decision making.

I'd agree with the slapping thing, but I doubt God is going to go with such a childish "pinch me" method.

I always call Jesus, Yeshua.

So if god proves that he exists he will defeat man's free will to obey him? Obeying him is how he wants you to get to heaven. Is that HIS argument?

God wants to prove himself through somebody loving and WANTING him. Not being forced to by God coming in and mind raping. God isn't going to just go in somebody's brain and make a switch happen where they believe because that's denying free will to believe or not.

Do you think that if the god of ultimate power turned up to you and to every other person on the planet simultaneously and proved to everyone of them that he was the god of ultimate power that some people wouldn't believe? Do you think that such a small number of people would make a difference to the world we live in? Do you think that this god couldn't just send them all off to hell if he so desired and knew he would from before eternity that he wouldn't. How could he not?

Every person on the planet would obey this god's commands because they would know this god. Wouldn't that achieve this gods ultimate plan of having everyone in heaven?

I understand where your coming from, but while it can be decided that all people believe in God if appeared, what makes it different from other people claiming God spoke to them and appeared? They can say what they saw, but people would say they were high. This guy makes me vomit because of his militant position, but I agree that this could be what some Christians experience in certain situations.

http://youtu.be...
12_13
Posts: 1,361
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6/29/2014 1:41:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

I think the reason is, because it wouldn"t make any difference, people who hate God and his commandments that are in the Bible well enough explained, would hate him as much if he would come and tell them directly.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
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6/29/2014 6:50:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because God has revealed himself. Not, too me. But to the special people on earth that are so great, moral, upstanding people that they will get to go to heaven and paradise. Whereas people like me who has not revealed himself to will not experience because we are not elect.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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6/30/2014 5:43:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
easy way to settle this. The jews are said to be gods people. Kill them all and we will know God doesn't exist...

wait has that been tried already?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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6/30/2014 6:17:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 1:41:44 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

I think the reason is, because it wouldn"t make any difference, people who hate God and his commandments that are in the Bible well enough explained, would hate him as much if he would come and tell them directly.

So it's not that that your god doesn't do anything, it's that he can't do anything. OK
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
debateuser
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6/30/2014 6:22:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 5:43:05 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
easy way to settle this. The jews are said to be gods people. Kill them all and we will know God doesn't exist...

wait has that been tried already?

Only religious people talk about killing each other to gather political support from their voters. It is called divide and rule. It spreads conservatism and fundamentalism in a society. Why do you think Muslim Brotherhood was supported against Gamal Abdel Nasser. Governments of Saudi Arabia and Israel are hypocrites who use this tactic and also at the same time cooperate with each other on Syrian issue. Both israel and Saudi Arabia by the way are servants of uncle Sam or in other words they are colleagues working for the same boss. OK you will say it is politics but even for politics destroying interpersonal relations of common people can't be justified.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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6/30/2014 6:27:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Do you think dubya can provide proof that God asked him to invade Iraq. That would expose true intentions of dubya. Theists like to use the name of God and that is why the man made God will never reveal himself because politicians themselves want to command. They only require God for moral support so that they can do injustices.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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debateuser
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6/30/2014 6:30:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans

nobody can know a person well enough to exactly predict what they will do. You know your family members well enough but can you exactly predict a divorce? A person does not even know himself that well enough.
If you know exactly then you have programmed them to follow a way for example robots. Religions at one place are claiming that free will exists and at the other claiming prophecies and sin and good. And you are also talking about a creator God. If God crates humans and can exactly tell what they will do then it means God knows what he has made . Perhaps he should have made them differently if he knows before how sinful his creations are. So in other words Gods knows who will be a sinner but at the same time wants to punish them for his own( God's) deliberate action. Scientists know what their robots will do because they have programmed them to behave in that way. If robots were not bound by any programming then how will the scientists exactly know how will the robot behave. Just ask any Robot manufacturer about this point. Lol. Religion is just illogical.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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ChristianPunk
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6/30/2014 2:10:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 6:30:00 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans

nobody can know a person well enough to exactly predict what they will do. You know your family members well enough but can you exactly predict a divorce? A person does not even know himself that well enough.
If you know exactly then you have programmed them to follow a way for example robots. Religions at one place are claiming that free will exists and at the other claiming prophecies and sin and good. And you are also talking about a creator God. If God crates humans and can exactly tell what they will do then it means God knows what he has made . Perhaps he should have made them differently if he knows before how sinful his creations are. So in other words Gods knows who will be a sinner but at the same time wants to punish them for his own( God's) deliberate action. Scientists know what their robots will do because they have programmed them to behave in that way. If robots were not bound by any programming then how will the scientists exactly know how will the robot behave. Just ask any Robot manufacturer about this point. Lol. Religion is just illogical.

Actually there is. Let's say God doesn't exist. We invent a time machine or a machine that allows us to just look into a view of somebody's future, the event has several futures that could be seen. Like what if we flipped a coin and got heads, we could flip a coin and got tails in another timeline or universe. Point is, there is a butterfly effect that determines the future and could change with any small decision we make. So we still have free will to make whatever decision we want. Not having free will is not having the ability to say yes or no by our own mind.

Robots at this point follow an order they are given or follow their program. We have free will in the sense of deciding for our own. God doesn't know what our future will be. He knows that being in a charity with the intention of ripping people off and keeping most of the donations is a sin. Will this person go to Hell? If he were to die the instant he was still having greed in his heart, then yes. But if this person later on were to decide that he was doing wrong and not only quit, but make up for his mistakes through his actions and intentions, then he would go to heaven. So his future changes. God doesn't know what our future is in that sense you speak of. He knows what's wrong and right, but he doesn't know where we will be. God knows all just means he knows the actions and intentions that are bad and good, but it doesn't mean the future.
slo1
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6/30/2014 2:51:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 10:53:07 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:45:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:36:30 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 10:05:22 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 9:57:14 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:33:30 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

I sorta get a lot that you said, but not the hostile bit. If everybody knew that god existed then surely everyone would believe and do as expected? I can't see any possibility for hostility.

Oh wait are you saying that the people who want to be bad would be hostile?

Well I don't think some people would want to be bad. If anything, alter reality. I'm talking about people who believe that God appearing before them was a delusion. God doesn't have a physical form. He could be a spirit or the laws of physics. Anyways, God could make himself to be anything and anybody to communicate. Kinda like Agents taking over humans in the Matrix, except without the body jacking. From what I've heard, God had multiple forms and works through people.

So other religions and some atheists will just say its a hallucination we fall for and could move to "save us". But that's also a theory.

No way Jose' or was that Jesus, I'm always confused.
An omnipotent god could turn up in front of you in your lounge room and slap you silly until you believed that he was real, or just get in your brain and make it a fact that he exists. We're talking about an omnipotent god here.

What's so hard for an omnipotent god to do?

But then again, if he did the brain thing, free will doesnt exist since you don't have a choice to make fact or fiction in your decision making.

I'd agree with the slapping thing, but I doubt God is going to go with such a childish "pinch me" method.

I always call Jesus, Yeshua.

So if god proves that he exists he will defeat man's free will to obey him? Obeying him is how he wants you to get to heaven. Is that HIS argument?

God wants to prove himself through somebody loving and WANTING him. Not being forced to by God coming in and mind raping. God isn't going to just go in somebody's brain and make a switch happen where they believe because that's denying free will to believe or not.

You obviously have not yet lived with a woman who continually expresses that you prove your love to her by knowing what she is thinking rather than just telling you what she wants. It is rather annoying and childish.

This entire concept that love is worthless unless it is based from ones own volition is a bunch of hogwash. Some of the greatest love is a parents love for a child, which many describe as unconditional, which in turn implies that it is not based upon free will.

If it is a biological disposition rather than free will it is still beautiful and worthy in many ways.
12_13
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6/30/2014 4:01:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 6:17:03 AM, bulproof wrote:
So it's not that that your god doesn't do anything, it's that he can't do anything. OK

I would say, I think he don"t want to force anyone to love him.
debateuser
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6/30/2014 5:44:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 2:10:13 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/30/2014 6:30:00 AM, debateuser wrote:
At 6/29/2014 8:24:33 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

Because then it would be too easy and almost defeat the purpose of free will. Now this Is just a theory.

The bible has what's considered the requirements, but the next question is, does God say the same?

If God were to come out and reveal itself to us, then it would be easy afterwards. Some people will stop being atheists just because of the physical notion that a God exists. We would know what to do, but also not advance much. Like we might just abandon learning about other universes, the cosmos, biology, evolution. Everything he provided for us to learn (I use he because I'm just traditional that way).

So while I agree it does seem easy, it would make us hostile. Some will even say that they were hallucinating or high and that's why they saw God.

Another important point is that religions claim that God knows the future and can prophecise. If God exactly knows what will happen in the future then there is no free will in humans

nobody can know a person well enough to exactly predict what they will do. You know your family members well enough but can you exactly predict a divorce? A person does not even know himself that well enough.
If you know exactly then you have programmed them to follow a way for example robots. Religions at one place are claiming that free will exists and at the other claiming prophecies and sin and good. And you are also talking about a creator God. If God crates humans and can exactly tell what they will do then it means God knows what he has made . Perhaps he should have made them differently if he knows before how sinful his creations are. So in other words Gods knows who will be a sinner but at the same time wants to punish them for his own( God's) deliberate action. Scientists know what their robots will do because they have programmed them to behave in that way. If robots were not bound by any programming then how will the scientists exactly know how will the robot behave. Just ask any Robot manufacturer about this point. Lol. Religion is just illogical.

Actually there is. Let's say God doesn't exist. We invent a time machine or a machine that allows us to just look into a view of somebody's future, the event has several futures that could be seen. Like what if we flipped a coin and got heads, we could flip a coin and got tails in another timeline or universe. Point is, there is a butterfly effect that determines the future and could change with any small decision we make. So we still have free will to make whatever decision we want. Not having free will is not having the ability to say yes or no by our own mind.





If a machine can exactly tell what will happen in the future then it is relying on some fixed principle on which the world is based. Notice the language here "fixed principle". If the world can make random choices then any such calculation will fail.
Have you heard of sub-concious decision making. Yes we are making these decisions but we have already decided it before we become conciously aware of it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org...

And also if there is no fixed laws then there will be chaos. Take the example of a road. If vehicles don't follow any traffic law. What will happen. The reason the world exists is because everything operates according to some rule.

Robots at this point follow an order they are given or follow their program. We have free will in the sense of deciding for our own. God doesn't know what our future will be. He knows that being in a charity with the intention of ripping people off and keeping most of the donations is a sin. Will this person go to Hell? If he were to die the instant he was still having greed in his heart, then yes. But if this person later on were to decide that he was doing wrong and not only quit, but make up for his mistakes through his actions and intentions, then he would go to heaven. So his future changes. God doesn't know what our future is in that sense you speak of. He knows what's wrong and right, but he doesn't know where we will be. God knows all just means he knows the actions and intentions that are bad and good, but it doesn't mean the future.

Wow this reply is going to getna lot of Lola. What about the prophecies in the Bible telling about humans decisions such as wars. Does the alleged God claim to control human decisions in such a case.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

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TN05
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6/30/2014 5:52:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/29/2014 7:36:06 AM, bulproof wrote:
If this god wants everybody in heaven and the way we get there is to obey it's commandments, then why doesn't it just reveal itself and explain it's requirements?

Seems pretty easy for the god that is proposed.
Omnipotent and omnipresent.

He has, through Jesus and the OT prophets.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,713
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6/30/2014 6:05:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Allah (swt) does not want anyone in heaven or Hell. For Allah neither gains or loses anything whether you go or not. Heaven and Hell is part of the covenant you agreed to prior to being born. An agreement in which you agreed to be tested in this life and rewarded in the Hereafter based on your deeds. Since it is a test, then Allah does not just simply reveal Himself. Instead, you are given clear signs of His existence and the purpose of Life, in order to guide you to passing the test of this life.
AlbinoBunny
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6/30/2014 6:13:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 6:05:42 PM, Fatihah wrote:
Allah (swt) does not want anyone in heaven or Hell. For Allah neither gains or loses anything whether you go or not. Heaven and Hell is part of the covenant you agreed to prior to being born. An agreement in which you agreed to be tested in this life and rewarded in the Hereafter based on your deeds. Since it is a test, then Allah does not just simply reveal Himself. Instead, you are given clear signs of His existence and the purpose of Life, in order to guide you to passing the test of this life.

You're saying Allah doesn't care if you passed the test? If you get rewarded or punished? That's the deity you revere?
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Fatihah
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6/30/2014 6:17:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 6:13:19 PM, AlbinoBunny wrote:


You're saying Allah doesn't care if you passed the test? If you get rewarded or punished? That's the deity you revere?

Response: Allah loves those who love Him. That is the deity we all should revere.