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Why I dislike debating the existence of God

TheWarrior
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6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.
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AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
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6/30/2014 10:16:11 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't think that we have any way to prove or disprove "God" yet. I do think it's a good idea for people to debate this issue though. If people aren't pushing their views onto other, I don't think they should be forced to debate these issues. I do think there are reasons to either not believe in any deities or to at least view this question as irrelevant in respect to how you live your life.

Freedom of religion (including the freedom to have no religion) is important to me.
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Mineva
Posts: 336
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6/30/2014 10:24:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I :believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to :know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not :believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This :leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally :lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who :have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will :convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. :What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and :ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to :prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

Hi,

I think, to believe in something without any valid, logical and objective reason is one of the most dangerous things. God does not want you to believe in him without any valid/objective reason, we want you to see evidences and thus believe in him. A true believer believes in God because he/she sees the evidences, not because of his/her father wanted him to believe in a the centuries old "tradition". If you believe in this way, I dont think it has a value in the sight of God, I dont think he would want you to believe in him in this way.

Peace
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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6/30/2014 12:49:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:16:11 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
I don't think that we have any way to prove or disprove "God" yet. I do think it's a good idea for people to debate this issue though. If people aren't pushing their views onto other, I don't think they should be forced to debate these issues. I do think there are reasons to either not believe in any deities or to at least view this question as irrelevant in respect to how you live your life.

Freedom of religion (including the freedom to have no religion) is important to me.

You are right freedom of religion (including freedom to have no religion) is important. You see I believe that God never intended us to prove his existence. I believe that that would completely take away from the whole faith aspect of my religion. I also believe that God does not want us to have blind faith. I believe he reveals himself in different ways to different people. That is why I believe only the personal experience argument has any value but it only works for that one person. I hate when theists try to debate and sound like crazy people trying to shove their view down someones throat. I just want people to see that they are loved.
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TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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6/30/2014 12:57:10 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:24:54 AM, Mineva wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I :believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to :know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not :believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This :leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally :lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who :have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will :convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. :What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and :ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to :prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

Hi,

I think, to believe in something without any valid, logical and objective reason is one of the most dangerous things. God does not want you to believe in him without any valid/objective reason, we want you to see evidences and thus believe in him. A true believer believes in God because he/she sees the evidences, not because of his/her father wanted him to believe in a the centuries old "tradition". If you believe in this way, I dont think it has a value in the sight of God, I dont think he would want you to believe in him in this way.

You are right. I believe because God has shown the evidence. That comes from my own personal experience.
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Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.
Truth_seeker
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6/30/2014 1:43:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

I agree with you. Both sides are subjective. There isn't a side which you can prove completely unless you assume their side is correct. This is why I choose to focus on showing the truthfulness of God's Word and through that, show that God's Word is true.
PureX
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6/30/2014 2:04:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The 'burden of proof' only follows if there is an an assertion. For theists to say they believe in God is just stating a self-evident fact. The burden of proof only follows if a theists asserts the existence of God to others.
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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6/30/2014 2:11:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?
I do not preach. I simply express what I believe to be true

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.
I have heard of give and take. I will listen. How is the gospel harmful to society? You may try to contest all you want but that will not make it any less true for those that have personally seen its truth. Or would you rather force someone to believe something they do not wish to. You are just like the christians who want to shove what they believe down peoples throat. I will listen but do not expect me to believe what you do. I do not expect anyone to believe what I do. I will simply say what I believe when asked.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.
How does getting rid of christianity produce a greater good in society?
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TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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6/30/2014 2:21:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 2:04:38 PM, PureX wrote:
The 'burden of proof' only follows if there is an an assertion. For theists to say they believe in God is just stating a self-evident fact. The burden of proof only follows if a theists asserts the existence of God to others.

You are right. The thing is that theists are generally the ones to make the assertion. There are some exceptions to this.
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PureX
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6/30/2014 2:29:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 2:21:11 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:04:38 PM, PureX wrote:
The 'burden of proof' only follows if there is an an assertion. For theists to say they believe in God is just stating a self-evident fact. The burden of proof only follows if a theists asserts the existence of God to others.

You are right. The thing is that theists are generally the ones to make the assertion. There are some exceptions to this.

I don't give little credence to anyone who makes assertions about God. I take such assertions as indicative of profound ignorance. It's one thing to know that we don't know something. It's another thing to be so ignorant that we don't even know that we don't know.
TheWarrior
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6/30/2014 2:36:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 2:29:59 PM, PureX wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:21:11 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:04:38 PM, PureX wrote:
The 'burden of proof' only follows if there is an an assertion. For theists to say they believe in God is just stating a self-evident fact. The burden of proof only follows if a theists asserts the existence of God to others.

You are right. The thing is that theists are generally the ones to make the assertion. There are some exceptions to this.

I don't give little credence to anyone who makes assertions about God. I take such assertions as indicative of profound ignorance. It's one thing to know that we don't know something. It's another thing to be so ignorant that we don't even know that we don't know.
I agree. I know it is impossible to know for sure. That is why it takes an amount of faith.
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slo1
Posts: 4,316
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6/30/2014 2:41:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.

Second this motion, especially since Jesus = God's earthly bound avatar.

OR

Is the commandment to preach the gospel only relevant to preach to those who already believe in God, but do not believe Jesus fulfilled the prophesy of being the messiah?
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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6/30/2014 2:52:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 2:41:29 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.

Second this motion, especially since Jesus = God's earthly bound avatar.

OR

Is the commandment to preach the gospel only relevant to preach to those who already believe in God, but do not believe Jesus fulfilled the prophesy of being the messiah?
First let me ask you when we preach the gospel do we have to use words?
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doomswatter
Posts: 47
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6/30/2014 2:56:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
While debating the existence of a god in general is interesting, I agree that it is fairly useless. However, debating the existence of a specific god, such as the Judeo-Christian one, is possible and important. It is possible because the only basis for such a god is in "scripture", and it is possible to debate the veracity of that scripture and the logic of its claims. It is important because people do not just "believe" in certain deities; they base their lifestyles, motives, and actions on those beliefs. If people believe a lie, they will live a lie.
"You are an irritating fly, and my sword is the flyswatter of your doom." - Sir Chivalot
slo1
Posts: 4,316
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6/30/2014 3:06:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 2:52:21 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:41:29 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.

Second this motion, especially since Jesus = God's earthly bound avatar.

OR

Is the commandment to preach the gospel only relevant to preach to those who already believe in God, but do not believe Jesus fulfilled the prophesy of being the messiah?
First let me ask you when we preach the gospel do we have to use words?

Not exclusively, but yes. If your intent is to convince people that Jesus Christ is their savior and messiah, it is not self evident through good works alone and requires the use of words.
TheWarrior
Posts: 126
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6/30/2014 3:42:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 3:06:50 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:52:21 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:41:29 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.

Second this motion, especially since Jesus = God's earthly bound avatar.

OR

Is the commandment to preach the gospel only relevant to preach to those who already believe in God, but do not believe Jesus fulfilled the prophesy of being the messiah?
First let me ask you when we preach the gospel do we have to use words?

Not exclusively, but yes. If your intent is to convince people that Jesus Christ is their savior and messiah, it is not self evident through good works alone and requires the use of words.

Ok, but is it our job to persuade or simply inform when they ask?
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Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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6/30/2014 3:54:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 2:11:35 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?
I do not preach. I simply express what I believe to be true

"preach verb \G2;prēch\
to make a speech about religion in a church or other public place : to deliver a sermon"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

That is called preaching.

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

I have heard of give and take. I will listen. How is the gospel harmful to society? You may try to contest all you want but that will not make it any less true for those that have personally seen its truth.

You are presupposing it is true, which is one harmful trait of the gospel. Moreover personally seeing it's truth simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny with logic and reason.

Or would you rather force someone to believe something they do not wish to. You are just like the christians who want to shove what they believe down peoples throat. I will listen but do not expect me to believe what you do. I do not expect anyone to believe what I do. I will simply say what I believe when asked.

I am not forcing anybody to do anything, I am stating that if you think you should be allowed to preach, then we should be allowed to contest that. That's what I meant by give and take, your opposition should have the same rights as you do. You said in the OP you just want to preach, I am going by what you yourself said.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.
How does getting rid of christianity produce a greater good in society?

Because Christianity simply teaches falsehoods, and drags society with Bronze Age ethics and superstitions. There is a reason why gay rights, creationism, abortion, religious conflict, and indoctrination get brought up without fail when talking about the downsides of Christianity. It has dragged society back for much too long.

It teaches people to believe based on faith and not based on adequate reason and scrutiny, and to reject these notions which are vital skills in every single other aspect of life.

It also instills the fear of punishment, hell and being watched 24/7 by a being who both judges your actions and thoughts.

That is mind slavery, and is a disgusting doctrine if I have ever seen one.

I can go on for ages. But that should be enough to see why debating God is important for society, whether he exists or does not. Since the consequences of him existing are severe as the consequences for him not existing.
twocupcakes
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6/30/2014 4:56:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

You believe in God because of biases you have in your life, environment and situation. Believing may make you feel special, give you hope or give you purpose. Even you must admit that you want God to exist and are biased to believe so.

I'm an atheist, yet I know that theists do not believe in God for logical reasons. Even if a theist uses a logical argument for a debate, they do not believe because of a logical argument. They believe for emotional/biased reasons.
TheWarrior
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6/30/2014 5:32:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 3:54:28 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:11:35 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?
I do not preach. I simply express what I believe to be true

"preach verb \G2;prēch\
to make a speech about religion in a church or other public place : to deliver a sermon"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

That is called preaching.

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

I have heard of give and take. I will listen. How is the gospel harmful to society? You may try to contest all you want but that will not make it any less true for those that have personally seen its truth.

You are presupposing it is true, which is one harmful trait of the gospel. Moreover personally seeing it's truth simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny with logic and reason.

Or would you rather force someone to believe something they do not wish to. You are just like the christians who want to shove what they believe down peoples throat. I will listen but do not expect me to believe what you do. I do not expect anyone to believe what I do. I will simply say what I believe when asked.

I am not forcing anybody to do anything, I am stating that if you think you should be allowed to preach, then we should be allowed to contest that. That's what I meant by give and take, your opposition should have the same rights as you do. You said in the OP you just want to preach, I am going by what you yourself said.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.
How does getting rid of christianity produce a greater good in society?

Because Christianity simply teaches falsehoods, and drags society with Bronze Age ethics and superstitions. There is a reason why gay rights, creationism, abortion, religious conflict, and indoctrination get brought up without fail when talking about the downsides of Christianity. It has dragged society back for much too long.

It teaches people to believe based on faith and not based on adequate reason and scrutiny, and to reject these notions which are vital skills in every single other aspect of life.

It also instills the fear of punishment, hell and being watched 24/7 by a being who both judges your actions and thoughts.

That is mind slavery, and is a disgusting doctrine if I have ever seen one.

I can go on for ages. But that should be enough to see why debating God is important for society, whether he exists or does not. Since the consequences of him existing are severe as the consequences for him not existing.
I think you misunderstand true christianity.
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Envisage
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6/30/2014 5:33:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 5:32:17 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 3:54:28 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:11:35 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?
I do not preach. I simply express what I believe to be true

"preach verb \G2;prēch\
to make a speech about religion in a church or other public place : to deliver a sermon"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

That is called preaching.

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

I have heard of give and take. I will listen. How is the gospel harmful to society? You may try to contest all you want but that will not make it any less true for those that have personally seen its truth.

You are presupposing it is true, which is one harmful trait of the gospel. Moreover personally seeing it's truth simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny with logic and reason.

Or would you rather force someone to believe something they do not wish to. You are just like the christians who want to shove what they believe down peoples throat. I will listen but do not expect me to believe what you do. I do not expect anyone to believe what I do. I will simply say what I believe when asked.

I am not forcing anybody to do anything, I am stating that if you think you should be allowed to preach, then we should be allowed to contest that. That's what I meant by give and take, your opposition should have the same rights as you do. You said in the OP you just want to preach, I am going by what you yourself said.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.
How does getting rid of christianity produce a greater good in society?

Because Christianity simply teaches falsehoods, and drags society with Bronze Age ethics and superstitions. There is a reason why gay rights, creationism, abortion, religious conflict, and indoctrination get brought up without fail when talking about the downsides of Christianity. It has dragged society back for much too long.

It teaches people to believe based on faith and not based on adequate reason and scrutiny, and to reject these notions which are vital skills in every single other aspect of life.

It also instills the fear of punishment, hell and being watched 24/7 by a being who both judges your actions and thoughts.

That is mind slavery, and is a disgusting doctrine if I have ever seen one.

I can go on for ages. But that should be enough to see why debating God is important for society, whether he exists or does not. Since the consequences of him existing are severe as the consequences for him not existing.
I think you misunderstand true christianity.

1. Try me
2. Show how that has anything to do with this forum topic "Why I dislike debating the existence of god"
TheWarrior
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6/30/2014 5:46:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 4:56:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

You believe in God because of biases you have in your life, environment and situation. Believing may make you feel special, give you hope or give you purpose. Even you must admit that you want God to exist and are biased to believe so.

I'm an atheist, yet I know that theists do not believe in God for logical reasons. Even if a theist uses a logical argument for a debate, they do not believe because of a logical argument. They believe for emotional/biased reasons.

This may be true for some. I would call my self an agnostic christian. I assume you would consider yourself an agnostic atheist. Because it is impossible to prove God does not exist or does exist I choose to belive in God until there is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not exist. I will say that I have experienced the hand of God in my life. So it would be hard to convince me he does not exist. To say that all theists believe for emotional/ biased resons is like saying all atheists are antitheists which is totally wrong.
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TheWarrior
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6/30/2014 6:05:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 5:33:31 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 5:32:17 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 3:54:28 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 2:11:35 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 1:00:07 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.


You don't want to debate God's existence, yet you want to preach God's existence?
I do not preach. I simply express what I believe to be true

"preach verb \G2;prēch\
to make a speech about religion in a church or other public place : to deliver a sermon"

http://www.merriam-webster.com...

That is called preaching.

Ever heard of give and take? If you expect to be heard in society, expect to have to listen, too. I think your preaching of the gospel is harmful for society, so I will contest it where I see it. And I will contest the soundness of the claims in it to justify such.

I have heard of give and take. I will listen. How is the gospel harmful to society? You may try to contest all you want but that will not make it any less true for those that have personally seen its truth.

You are presupposing it is true, which is one harmful trait of the gospel. Moreover personally seeing it's truth simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny with logic and reason.

Or would you rather force someone to believe something they do not wish to. You are just like the christians who want to shove what they believe down peoples throat. I will listen but do not expect me to believe what you do. I do not expect anyone to believe what I do. I will simply say what I believe when asked.

I am not forcing anybody to do anything, I am stating that if you think you should be allowed to preach, then we should be allowed to contest that. That's what I meant by give and take, your opposition should have the same rights as you do. You said in the OP you just want to preach, I am going by what you yourself said.

Because it is for the greater good of society if we got rid of Christianity, it's that simple.
How does getting rid of christianity produce a greater good in society?

Because Christianity simply teaches falsehoods, and drags society with Bronze Age ethics and superstitions. There is a reason why gay rights, creationism, abortion, religious conflict, and indoctrination get brought up without fail when talking about the downsides of Christianity. It has dragged society back for much too long.

It teaches people to believe based on faith and not based on adequate reason and scrutiny, and to reject these notions which are vital skills in every single other aspect of life.

It also instills the fear of punishment, hell and being watched 24/7 by a being who both judges your actions and thoughts.

That is mind slavery, and is a disgusting doctrine if I have ever seen one.

I can go on for ages. But that should be enough to see why debating God is important for society, whether he exists or does not. Since the consequences of him existing are severe as the consequences for him not existing.
I think you misunderstand true christianity.

1. Try me
I think you should read the sermon on the mount found in Matthew chapter 5-7.
2. Show how that has anything to do with this forum topic "Why I dislike debating the existence of god"
It provides nothing to do with the topic. You are the one who brought up your hatred for christianity. I presented my topic without showing any hatred. I would hope that would be possible for you.
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twocupcakes
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6/30/2014 6:20:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 5:46:12 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 4:56:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

You believe in God because of biases you have in your life, environment and situation. Believing may make you feel special, give you hope or give you purpose. Even you must admit that you want God to exist and are biased to believe so.

I'm an atheist, yet I know that theists do not believe in God for logical reasons. Even if a theist uses a logical argument for a debate, they do not believe because of a logical argument. They believe for emotional/biased reasons.

This may be true for some. I would call my self an agnostic christian. I assume you would consider yourself an agnostic atheist. Because it is impossible to prove God does not exist or does exist I choose to belive in God until there is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not exist. I will say that I have experienced the hand of God in my life. So it would be hard to convince me he does not exist. To say that all theists believe for emotional/ biased resons is like saying all atheists are antitheists which is totally wrong.

You say that you do not believe for emotional/biased reasons, yet you have experienced the hand of God.

Would someone be biased for experiencing the hand of Allah, Zeus, The Spaghetti Monster, or Odin. A "personal experience" is definitely a biased reason.

There is nothing wrong with that. I believe my favorite sports teams are the best because of my bias. I truly believe they are the best and like people more who like the same teams as me. But, at least I know I am biased.
TheWarrior
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6/30/2014 6:34:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 6:20:52 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 5:46:12 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 4:56:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

You believe in God because of biases you have in your life, environment and situation. Believing may make you feel special, give you hope or give you purpose. Even you must admit that you want God to exist and are biased to believe so.

I'm an atheist, yet I know that theists do not believe in God for logical reasons. Even if a theist uses a logical argument for a debate, they do not believe because of a logical argument. They believe for emotional/biased reasons.

This may be true for some. I would call my self an agnostic christian. I assume you would consider yourself an agnostic atheist. Because it is impossible to prove God does not exist or does exist I choose to belive in God until there is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not exist. I will say that I have experienced the hand of God in my life. So it would be hard to convince me he does not exist. To say that all theists believe for emotional/ biased resons is like saying all atheists are antitheists which is totally wrong.

You say that you do not believe for emotional/biased reasons, yet you have experienced the hand of God.

Would someone be biased for experiencing the hand of Allah, Zeus, The Spaghetti Monster, or Odin. A "personal experience" is definitely a biased reason.

There is nothing wrong with that. I believe my favorite sports teams are the best because of my bias. I truly believe they are the best and like people more who like the same teams as me. But, at least I know I am biased.
You are right I am biased based on my experiences. Those experiences are unique to me though. Still making it impossible for me to prove to anyone else God exists. By this definition atheists would be considered bias in their belief. Because their experience has shown them God does not exist. Still it is impossible to prove God does not exist. Again this is why dislike debating the existence of God. It is a moot point. He may exist or he may not. Weigh the odds for yourself and choose a side. But either way the only evidence on either side is subjective.
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twocupcakes
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6/30/2014 7:37:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 6:34:36 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 6:20:52 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 5:46:12 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 4:56:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

You believe in God because of biases you have in your life, environment and situation. Believing may make you feel special, give you hope or give you purpose. Even you must admit that you want God to exist and are biased to believe so.

I'm an atheist, yet I know that theists do not believe in God for logical reasons. Even if a theist uses a logical argument for a debate, they do not believe because of a logical argument. They believe for emotional/biased reasons.

This may be true for some. I would call my self an agnostic christian. I assume you would consider yourself an agnostic atheist. Because it is impossible to prove God does not exist or does exist I choose to belive in God until there is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not exist. I will say that I have experienced the hand of God in my life. So it would be hard to convince me he does not exist. To say that all theists believe for emotional/ biased resons is like saying all atheists are antitheists which is totally wrong.

You say that you do not believe for emotional/biased reasons, yet you have experienced the hand of God.

Would someone be biased for experiencing the hand of Allah, Zeus, The Spaghetti Monster, or Odin. A "personal experience" is definitely a biased reason.

There is nothing wrong with that. I believe my favorite sports teams are the best because of my bias. I truly believe they are the best and like people more who like the same teams as me. But, at least I know I am biased.
You are right I am biased based on my experiences. Those experiences are unique to me though. Still making it impossible for me to prove to anyone else God exists. By this definition atheists would be considered bias in their belief. Because their experience has shown them God does not exist. Still it is impossible to prove God does not exist. Again this is why dislike debating the existence of God. It is a moot point. He may exist or he may not. Weigh the odds for yourself and choose a side. But either way the only evidence on either side is subjective.

Well the difference is atheists have a lack of experience. They never had God talk to them. Or, they did and later reasoned it was just a human mind trick.

Our unique experiences tell us that Obama is not a alien zombie, that the teenage mutant ninja turtles do not exist on mars, that there is not a magical turtle on the moon. Would not believing in these ridiculous things be biased.

Atheists maybe somewhat biased in say, thinking their guy won a debate. But, not having a God talk to them is not a biased belief.
RoderickSpode
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6/30/2014 9:32:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 6:20:52 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 5:46:12 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 4:56:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:03:44 AM, TheWarrior wrote:
First of all I am a christian. Second I do not like to debate the existence of God. I believe God exists. Others do not believe God exists. Others say there is know way to know for sure. I respect the conclusion that those people have come to. I do not believe there is any objective way to prove or disprove the existence of God. This leaves both sides at a loss. Especially the theists since the burden of proof generally lies with them. I believe that there are those that have experienced God and those who have not. I do not believe that is my job to convince anyone that God exists. God will convince if he so wishes. As a christian I believe that God has given me one command. What is that command? To preach the gospel. What is the gospel? The birth, death and ressurection of Jesus Christ to the saving of the world. Nothing in that says I have to prove God exists. For this reason I do not argue the existence of God.

You believe in God because of biases you have in your life, environment and situation. Believing may make you feel special, give you hope or give you purpose. Even you must admit that you want God to exist and are biased to believe so.

I'm an atheist, yet I know that theists do not believe in God for logical reasons. Even if a theist uses a logical argument for a debate, they do not believe because of a logical argument. They believe for emotional/biased reasons.

This may be true for some. I would call my self an agnostic christian. I assume you would consider yourself an agnostic atheist. Because it is impossible to prove God does not exist or does exist I choose to belive in God until there is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt that he does not exist. I will say that I have experienced the hand of God in my life. So it would be hard to convince me he does not exist. To say that all theists believe for emotional/ biased resons is like saying all atheists are antitheists which is totally wrong.

You say that you do not believe for emotional/biased reasons, yet you have experienced the hand of God.

Would someone be biased for experiencing the hand of Allah, Zeus, The Spaghetti Monster, or Odin. A "personal experience" is definitely a biased reason.

There is nothing wrong with that. I believe my favorite sports teams are the best because of my bias. I truly believe they are the best and like people more who like the same teams as me. But, at least I know I am biased.
The Spaghetti Monster is just a parody. There is no one that actually believes the FSM exists. Gods like Odin and Zeus follow that same pattern, particularly. Pagan gods in modern times are generally more symbolic to ethnicity like Thor and Odin, or a parody just like the FSM.

There's an assumption that these gods operate in the same fashion as Jesus Christ. There's no rhyme or reason to these assumptions. The Islamic religion is primarily based on adherence to the words of a prophet. But the dynamics involved with a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and a belief in Allah are entirely different.
annanicole
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6/30/2014 10:23:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 12:49:42 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:16:11 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
I don't think that we have any way to prove or disprove "God" yet. I do think it's a good idea for people to debate this issue though. If people aren't pushing their views onto other, I don't think they should be forced to debate these issues. I do think there are reasons to either not believe in any deities or to at least view this question as irrelevant in respect to how you live your life.

Freedom of religion (including the freedom to have no religion) is important to me.

You are right freedom of religion (including freedom to have no religion) is important. You see I believe that God never intended us to prove his existence. I believe that that would completely take away from the whole faith aspect of my religion. I also believe that God does not want us to have blind faith. I believe he reveals himself in different ways to different people. That is why I believe only the personal experience argument has any value but it only works for that one person. I hate when theists try to debate and sound like crazy people trying to shove their view down someones throat. I just want people to see that they are loved.

They sound half-nuts when they ramble about imaginary "personal experiences". Conversion is not a convulsion, and repentance does not happen in a nightmare. I'm almost embarrassed to see professed Christians discussing the matter with atheists, and the best they have to offer is some off-beat experience.

It is an error to claim that "He reveals himself in different ways to different people." I rather doubt that: He reveals Himself through His word. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not an "experience." We are quickened by the word, begotten by the word, have a lighted path due to the word - and on and on. For someone who is straddling the fence between belief and unbelief, the absolute worst thing to do is to sit around and wait for God to give him an "experience." He will go to his grave, lost, still waiting for that "experience."
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
TheWarrior
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6/30/2014 10:38:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:23:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2014 12:49:42 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:16:11 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
I don't think that we have any way to prove or disprove "God" yet. I do think it's a good idea for people to debate this issue though. If people aren't pushing their views onto other, I don't think they should be forced to debate these issues. I do think there are reasons to either not believe in any deities or to at least view this question as irrelevant in respect to how you live your life.

Freedom of religion (including the freedom to have no religion) is important to me.

You are right freedom of religion (including freedom to have no religion) is important. You see I believe that God never intended us to prove his existence. I believe that that would completely take away from the whole faith aspect of my religion. I also believe that God does not want us to have blind faith. I believe he reveals himself in different ways to different people. That is why I believe only the personal experience argument has any value but it only works for that one person. I hate when theists try to debate and sound like crazy people trying to shove their view down someones throat. I just want people to see that they are loved.

They sound half-nuts when they ramble about imaginary "personal experiences". Conversion is not a convulsion, and repentance does not happen in a nightmare. I'm almost embarrassed to see professed Christians discussing the matter with atheists, and the best they have to offer is some off-beat experience.

It is an error to claim that "He reveals himself in different ways to different people." I rather doubt that: He reveals Himself through His word. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not an "experience." We are quickened by the word, begotten by the word, have a lighted path due to the word - and on and on. For someone who is straddling the fence between belief and unbelief, the absolute worst thing to do is to sit around and wait for God to give him an "experience." He will go to his grave, lost, still waiting for that "experience."
I admit I agree, but revealing himself through the word is still a personal experience. Also, would you not agree that God uses the word to reveal himself but that he may use his word in different ways with different people? If so, this would make each experience unique to the individual having that experience. This would then make my statement that he reveals himself in different ways to different people valid.
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annanicole
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6/30/2014 11:37:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/30/2014 10:38:45 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:23:55 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 6/30/2014 12:49:42 PM, TheWarrior wrote:
At 6/30/2014 10:16:11 AM, AlbinoBunny wrote:
I don't think that we have any way to prove or disprove "God" yet. I do think it's a good idea for people to debate this issue though. If people aren't pushing their views onto other, I don't think they should be forced to debate these issues. I do think there are reasons to either not believe in any deities or to at least view this question as irrelevant in respect to how you live your life.

Freedom of religion (including the freedom to have no religion) is important to me.

You are right freedom of religion (including freedom to have no religion) is important. You see I believe that God never intended us to prove his existence. I believe that that would completely take away from the whole faith aspect of my religion. I also believe that God does not want us to have blind faith. I believe he reveals himself in different ways to different people. That is why I believe only the personal experience argument has any value but it only works for that one person. I hate when theists try to debate and sound like crazy people trying to shove their view down someones throat. I just want people to see that they are loved.

They sound half-nuts when they ramble about imaginary "personal experiences". Conversion is not a convulsion, and repentance does not happen in a nightmare. I'm almost embarrassed to see professed Christians discussing the matter with atheists, and the best they have to offer is some off-beat experience.

It is an error to claim that "He reveals himself in different ways to different people." I rather doubt that: He reveals Himself through His word. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not an "experience." We are quickened by the word, begotten by the word, have a lighted path due to the word - and on and on. For someone who is straddling the fence between belief and unbelief, the absolute worst thing to do is to sit around and wait for God to give him an "experience." He will go to his grave, lost, still waiting for that "experience."

I admit I agree, but revealing himself through the word is still a personal experience.

No moreso than the writings of anyone "reveal themselves", excepting of course the power of divine intelligence conveyed in the Scriptures.

Also, would you not agree that God uses the word to reveal himself but that he may use his word in different ways with different people? If so, this would make each experience unique to the individual having that experience. This would then make my statement that he reveals himself in different ways to different people valid.

As long as you are saying that God reveals Himself - or His will - solely through the means of the written/spoken word, then I would agree wholeheartedly. That one person might be touched by the conversion of the 3,000 on Pentecost, whereas another might be affected more by the epistles of Paul or the Sermon on the Mount, I would agree. Such a thing is not what most people mean by "personal experience". They mean something vague ... cloudy ... incomprehensible ... "better-felt-than-explained". That's the part with which I disagree. Belief in God/conversion are sane acts. God appeals to the mind, the intellect, and makes His arguments through the pages of Scripture.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."