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Jesus was a God or mere a prophet?

POPOO5560
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7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?
Never fart near dog
SkepticalStardust
Posts: 117
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7/1/2014 7:39:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

I choose C. None of the above.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/1/2014 7:42:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 7:39:01 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

I choose C. None of the above.

Its not about beliefs. Bart ehrman is an athiest like you, so trolling is other place here in this one :D https://www.youtube.com...
Never fart near dog
SkepticalStardust
Posts: 117
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7/1/2014 7:48:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 7:42:55 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:39:01 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

I choose C. None of the above.

Its not about beliefs. Bart ehrman is an athiest like you, so trolling is other place here in this one :D https://www.youtube.com...

One cannot be an atheist and accept that Jesus is a god or a prophet of a god. The only requisite for being an atheist is the non-acceptance of the claim that god(s) exist. It's like saying someone is a married bachelor.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/1/2014 7:55:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 7:48:55 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:42:55 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:39:01 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

I choose C. None of the above.

Its not about beliefs. Bart ehrman is an athiest like you, so trolling is other place here in this one :D https://www.youtube.com...

One cannot be an atheist and accept that Jesus is a god or a prophet of a god. The only requisite for being an atheist is the non-acceptance of the claim that god(s) exist. It's like saying someone is a married bachelor.

Dude saying Muhhamed (pbuh) prophet in islam, not makes you a Muslim, Bart is saying Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet, this is not making him believing that he is "true prophet" or believing in God. i dont know what you trying to say here, its according to the Bible not his personal beliefs.
Never fart near dog
SkepticalStardust
Posts: 117
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7/1/2014 8:08:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 7:55:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:48:55 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:42:55 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:39:01 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

I choose C. None of the above.

Its not about beliefs. Bart ehrman is an athiest like you, so trolling is other place here in this one :D https://www.youtube.com...

One cannot be an atheist and accept that Jesus is a god or a prophet of a god. The only requisite for being an atheist is the non-acceptance of the claim that god(s) exist. It's like saying someone is a married bachelor.

Dude saying Muhhamed (pbuh) prophet in islam, not makes you a Muslim, Bart is saying Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet, this is not making him believing that he is "true prophet" or believing in God. i dont know what you trying to say here, its according to the Bible not his personal beliefs.

I'm also not quite sure what you're saying now. Here's what I'm saying:

Jesus, as depicted in holy texts, did not exist. The man may have existed, but there's no reason to believe he performed any miracles. The bible is not a reliable source.

If you're saying "If you assume the supernatural Jesus existed, then which version of him is the most realistic?", then I would probably say both options are equally believable.
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence." " Christopher Hitchens
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/1/2014 8:17:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 8:08:36 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:55:30 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:48:55 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:42:55 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:39:01 PM, SkepticalStardust wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

I choose C. None of the above.

Its not about beliefs. Bart ehrman is an athiest like you, so trolling is other place here in this one :D https://www.youtube.com...

One cannot be an atheist and accept that Jesus is a god or a prophet of a god. The only requisite for being an atheist is the non-acceptance of the claim that god(s) exist. It's like saying someone is a married bachelor.

Dude saying Muhhamed (pbuh) prophet in islam, not makes you a Muslim, Bart is saying Jesus was an apocalyptic prophet, this is not making him believing that he is "true prophet" or believing in God. i dont know what you trying to say here, its according to the Bible not his personal beliefs.

I'm also not quite sure what you're saying now. Here's what I'm saying:

Jesus, as depicted in holy texts, did not exist. The man may have existed, but there's no reason to believe he performed any miracles. The bible is not a reliable source.

If you're saying "If you assume the supernatural Jesus existed, then which version of him is the most realistic?", then I would probably say both options are equally believable.

Well if he existed at all? its another issue... im talking about according to the bible, talking to christains.
Never fart near dog
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.
That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit. If that is true, logically that makes those who are filled with the same Spirit as Jesus was filled with, the physical manifestation of God on Earth today.
You (plural) are God ( plural) Psalm 82: 6 ( elohiym) , John 10:34 ( Theos)

The word God in Hebrew ( elohiym) is plural not singular.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/1/2014 10:54:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.

And that's not true.

That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

Jesus was the physical manifestation of a human being - not God.

However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit.

And that's not true, either. We believe that being "filled with the Spirit" is 100% parallel to "letting the word dwell in us richly". In that manner, i. e. representatively, one would be filled with the Spirit. Nobody is on here claiming that the literal Holy Spirit actually, literally, bodily indwells us. If it did, we'd be inspired.

If that is true, logically that makes those who are filled with the same Spirit as Jesus was filled with, the physical manifestation of God on Earth today.

But it ain't true. Now what?

You (plural) are God ( plural) Psalm 82: 6 ( elohiym) , John 10:34 ( Theos)

The word God in Hebrew ( elohiym) is plural not singular.

And?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/1/2014 11:20:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 10:54:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.

And that's not true.
What's not true Anna?
It is very true that is what I understand of Christian beliefs.
If you do not believe that the character Jesus was motivated by the Spirit of God then what exactly do you believe?


That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

Jesus was the physical manifestation of a human being - not God.

If he was the physical manifestation of a human being he would not have had any supernatural powers. Humans do not have supernatural powers. If you know any who do, please list them for us.


However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit.

And that's not true, either. We believe that being "filled with the Spirit" is 100% parallel to "letting the word dwell in us richly". In that manner, i. e. representatively, one would be filled with the Spirit. Nobody is on here claiming that the literal Holy Spirit actually, literally, bodily indwells us. If it did, we'd be inspired.

Obviously that is the reason you are not inspired. You don't believe you can be.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

You don't believe the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead can dwell in you?

If that is true, logically that makes those who are filled with the same Spirit as Jesus was filled with, the physical manifestation of God on Earth today.

But it ain't true. Now what?

Just because you do not think it is true does not mean you are correct Anna.
Are you claiming the bible is lying when it implies the Spirit of God can dwell in you and you can be one with the Father and Jesus in the same way Jesus and the Father are one? ( John 17:20-26 )

Did Jesus tell a lie when he said I and the Father are one? ( John 10:20)
Do you think I am telling a lie when I say I and the Father are one in the same way Jesus and the Father are one because Jesus prayed we would be and his prayers are answered? ( John 17:20-26)
You obviously don't have a clue what Jesus was talking about and neither do you comprehend what I am talking about Anna.
You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. ( John 8:23)


You (plural) are God ( plural) Psalm 82: 6 ( elohiym) , John 10:34 ( Theos)

The word God in Hebrew ( elohiym) is plural not singular.

And?

And that means God (Christ) is not a singular entity or some individual supernatural being but is a BODY of MANY members. It is a corporate body.

1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/1/2014 11:31:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 11:20:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 10:54:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.

And that's not true.
What's not true Anna?
It is very true that is what I understand of Christian beliefs.
If you do not believe that the character Jesus was motivated by the Spirit of God then what exactly do you believe?

I didn't say that Jesus was not motivated by the Holy Spirit,or the Spirit of God. I said that that is not the reason that Jesus is considered to be God.


That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

Jesus was the physical manifestation of a human being - not God.

If he was the physical manifestation of a human being he would not have had any supernatural powers. Humans do not have supernatural powers. If you know any who do, please list them for us.

Peter, Paul, John. See the Book of Acts. These men weren't God or gods, physically or otherwise.


However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit.

And that's not true, either. We believe that being "filled with the Spirit" is 100% parallel to "letting the word dwell in us richly". In that manner, i. e. representatively, one would be filled with the Spirit. Nobody is on here claiming that the literal Holy Spirit actually, literally, bodily indwells us. If it did, we'd be inspired.

Obviously that is the reason you are not inspired. You don't believe you can be.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I didn't say the Spirit does not dwell in us. I said He does so representatively - not literally.

You don't believe the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead can dwell in you?

Not literally. Of course not. If He did, then I'd be inspired.

If that is true, logically that makes those who are filled with the same Spirit as Jesus was filled with, the physical manifestation of God on Earth today.

But it ain't true. Now what?

Just because you do not think it is true does not mean you are correct Anna.

Look, I've already said that NOBODY on here has been claiming that the Holy Spirit literally, actually, bodily dwells within them. He does dwell in Christians representatively as the Word dwells in us.

Are you claiming the bible is lying when it implies the Spirit of God can dwell in you and you can be one with the Father and Jesus in the same way Jesus and the Father are one? ( John 17:20-26 )

The Spirit dwells in us representatively ... through means.

Did Jesus tell a lie when he said I and the Father are one? ( John 10:20)

One in what way?

Do you think I am telling a lie when I say I and the Father are one in the same way Jesus and the Father are one because Jesus prayed we would be and his prayers are answered? ( John 17:20-26)

Yes

You obviously don't have a clue what Jesus was talking about and neither do you comprehend what I am talking about Anna.
You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. ( John 8:23)


You (plural) are God ( plural) Psalm 82: 6 ( elohiym) , John 10:34 ( Theos)

The word God in Hebrew ( elohiym) is plural not singular.

And?

And that means God (Christ) is not a singular entity or some individual supernatural being but is a BODY of MANY members. It is a corporate body.

Nobody said God is a single entity.

1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/2/2014 12:02:18 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 11:31:04 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 11:20:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 10:54:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.

And that's not true.
What's not true Anna?
It is very true that is what I understand of Christian beliefs.
If you do not believe that the character Jesus was motivated by the Spirit of God then what exactly do you believe?

I didn't say that Jesus was not motivated by the Holy Spirit,or the Spirit of God. I said that that is not the reason that Jesus is considered to be God.

Then what in your opinion is the reason Anna? Please enlighten us.


That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

Jesus was the physical manifestation of a human being - not God.

If he was the physical manifestation of a human being he would not have had any supernatural powers. Humans do not have supernatural powers. If you know any who do, please list them for us.

Peter, Paul, John. See the Book of Acts. These men weren't God or gods, physically or otherwise.

Jesus says otherwise.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
He was talking to his own accusers at the time.
He implied that all men are gods.
Psalms also claims all humans are gods.
Psalms 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Are you saying those scriptures are a lie or that humans are not children of God or that the children of God are not gods?



However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit.

And that's not true, either. We believe that being "filled with the Spirit" is 100% parallel to "letting the word dwell in us richly". In that manner, i. e. representatively, one would be filled with the Spirit. Nobody is on here claiming that the literal Holy Spirit actually, literally, bodily indwells us. If it did, we'd be inspired.

Obviously that is the reason you are not inspired. You don't believe you can be.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I didn't say the Spirit does not dwell in us. I said He does so representatively - not literally.

If you do not literally have the Spirit of Truth or eternal Life in you then its easy to understand why you don't comprehend the Truth or eternal Life.
The Spirit of God ( The principle or the Way of Life in Truth, ) literally dwells in ALL living things and manifests life and truth and the whole principle (the WAY) and cycle of life through those living things.

You don't believe the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead can dwell in you?

Not literally. Of course not. If He did, then I'd be inspired.

Don't you want to be inspired?


If that is true, logically that makes those who are filled with the same Spirit as Jesus was filled with, the physical manifestation of God on Earth today.

But it ain't true. Now what?

Just because you do not think it is true does not mean you are correct Anna.

Look, I've already said that NOBODY on here has been claiming that the Holy Spirit literally, actually, bodily dwells within them. He does dwell in Christians representatively as the Word dwells in us.


I am claiming that the TRUTH literally dwells in me and I in it (Him) We are one. My words are not my own but his that sent me.

Are you claiming the bible is lying when it implies the Spirit of God can dwell in you and you can be one with the Father and Jesus in the same way Jesus and the Father are one? ( John 17:20-26 )

The Spirit dwells in us representatively ... through means.

Either a spirit dwells in you literally or it does not. How can a spirit dwell in any one representatively? You either have Love in you literally or you do not. You either have Truth in you literally or you do not. If you literally live in Love you become Love personified. If you literally live in Truth you become Truth personified. If you live in confusion you become confusion personified.


Did Jesus tell a lie when he said I and the Father are one? ( John 10:20)

One in what way?
One in the same way I am one with Life ( God). Life ( God) dwells in me and I dwell in life (God). We are one.
One in the same way I am one with air. Air dwells in me and I dwell in air. We are one.


Do you think I am telling a lie when I say I and the Father are one in the same way Jesus and the Father are one because Jesus prayed we would be and his prayers are answered? ( John 17:20-26)

Yes

Fair enough. You will see what you want to see and believe what you want to believe but I am telling the truth in the same way Jesus was telling the truth. Many called him a liar too because they were blind to the truth and saw it as a lie. They saw his words as a lie because they did not understand what he was saying any better than you do Anna. I understand your blindness. Once I was that blind too.


You obviously don't have a clue what Jesus was talking about and neither do you comprehend what I am talking about Anna.
You are from beneath; I am from above: you are of this world; I am not of this world. ( John 8:23)


You (plural) are God ( plural) Psalm 82: 6 ( elohiym) , John 10:34 ( Theos)

The word God in Hebrew ( elohiym) is plural not singular.

And?

And that means God (Christ) is not a singular entity or some individual supernatural being but is a BODY of MANY members. It is a corporate body.

Nobody said God is a single entity.

Many people seem to think God is an individual father figure in the sky because that is the way religions portray God.
Some obviously believe God is a trinity. Those people are as deluded as those who perceive God as an individual father figure.
A body of many members is far more than three members. Do you have more than just three body parts in your body Anna?
Does one body part tell another body part it has no need of it?


1 Cor 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being ma
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/2/2014 12:46:06 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 12:02:18 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 11:31:04 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 11:20:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 10:54:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.

And that's not true.
What's not true Anna?
It is very true that is what I understand of Christian beliefs.
If you do not believe that the character Jesus was motivated by the Spirit of God then what exactly do you believe?

I didn't say that Jesus was not motivated by the Holy Spirit,or the Spirit of God. I said that that is not the reason that Jesus is considered to be God.

Then what in your opinion is the reason Anna? Please enlighten us.


That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

Jesus was the physical manifestation of a human being - not God.

If he was the physical manifestation of a human being he would not have had any supernatural powers. Humans do not have supernatural powers. If you know any who do, please list them for us.

Peter, Paul, John. See the Book of Acts. These men weren't God or gods, physically or otherwise.

Jesus says otherwise.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
He was talking to his own accusers at the time.
He implied that all men are gods.
Psalms also claims all humans are gods.
Psalms 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Are you saying those scriptures are a lie or that humans are not children of God or that the children of God are not gods?



However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit.

And that's not true, either. We believe that being "filled with the Spirit" is 100% parallel to "letting the word dwell in us richly". In that manner, i. e. representatively, one would be filled with the Spirit. Nobody is on here claiming that the literal Holy Spirit actually, literally, bodily indwells us. If it did, we'd be inspired.

Obviously that is the reason you are not inspired. You don't believe you can be.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I didn't say the Spirit does not dwell in us. I said He does so representatively - not literally.

If you do not literally have the Spirit of Truth or eternal Life in you then its easy to understand why you don't comprehend the Truth or eternal Life.

Apparently NOBODY has this "spirit" other than you. Are you sure that it is "holy"?

Well, let's see: this spirit should be bringing to your mind everything that Jesus ever said to the apostles, whether recorded in the NT or not. Could you enlighten us on some of those unrecorded statements of a man who never lived?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/2/2014 1:26:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 12:46:06 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/2/2014 12:02:18 AM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 11:31:04 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 11:20:40 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 10:54:49 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.

And that's not true.
What's not true Anna?
It is very true that is what I understand of Christian beliefs.
If you do not believe that the character Jesus was motivated by the Spirit of God then what exactly do you believe?

I didn't say that Jesus was not motivated by the Holy Spirit,or the Spirit of God. I said that that is not the reason that Jesus is considered to be God.

Then what in your opinion is the reason Anna? Please enlighten us.

No enlightening revelation coming from you Anna? Don't you have an answer to the question? Why do Christians believe Jesus is God?


That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

Jesus was the physical manifestation of a human being - not God.

If he was the physical manifestation of a human being he would not have had any supernatural powers. Humans do not have supernatural powers. If you know any who do, please list them for us.

Peter, Paul, John. See the Book of Acts. These men weren't God or gods, physically or otherwise.

Jesus says otherwise.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
He was talking to his own accusers at the time.
He implied that all men are gods.
Psalms also claims all humans are gods.
Psalms 82:6
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

Are you saying those scriptures are a lie or that humans are not children of God or that the children of God are not gods?



However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit.

And that's not true, either. We believe that being "filled with the Spirit" is 100% parallel to "letting the word dwell in us richly". In that manner, i. e. representatively, one would be filled with the Spirit. Nobody is on here claiming that the literal Holy Spirit actually, literally, bodily indwells us. If it did, we'd be inspired.

Obviously that is the reason you are not inspired. You don't believe you can be.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

I didn't say the Spirit does not dwell in us. I said He does so representatively - not literally.

If you do not literally have the Spirit of Truth or eternal Life in you then its easy to understand why you don't comprehend the Truth or eternal Life.

Apparently NOBODY has this "spirit" other than you. Are you sure that it is "holy"?

All who live and walk in Truth have the spirit of Truth in them.
All who are alive have the spirit of Life in them.
Whether it is holy or not according to you depends on how you judge it.
Some see the spirit of life and truth as holy and others see it as something unholy from the devil.
It can obviously be seen both ways. If not, no one would ever have thought Jesus was evil or mad or crucified him in the story.


Well, let's see: this spirit should be bringing to your mind everything that Jesus ever said to the apostles, whether recorded in the NT or not. Could you enlighten us on some of those unrecorded statements of a man who never lived?

I could write anything at all in response to that and you would simply say I am making it all up anyway. There is no way you would believe the Spirit of God was bringing it to my mind. You see light as darkness. You don't even believe what is written in the bible but you imply that Jesus is a liar when Jesus quotes Psalm 82:6 to try to convince his accusers they are indeed gods. Anna says NO they are not. Men are not gods according to Anna but they are gods according to Jesus. Who should we believe? Anna or Jesus who quoted the writer of the Psalm 82 ?
Composer
Posts: 5,858
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7/2/2014 4:55:57 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 1:26:02 AM, Skyangel wrote:
. . . . . You don't even believe what is written in the bible . . . .
So the bible states there are Immortal worms -

Mark 9:44:
Where their worm dieth not, . . . . . .

Do you believe the bible that there are immortal worms?
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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7/2/2014 5:12:14 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 4:55:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/2/2014 1:26:02 AM, Skyangel wrote:
. . . . . You don't even believe what is written in the bible . . . .
So the bible states there are Immortal worms -

Mark 9:44:
Where their worm dieth not, . . . . . .

Do you believe the bible that there are immortal worms?


They must be the ones that keep making me hungry. boom tish.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/2/2014 6:44:26 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/1/2014 9:55:18 PM, Skyangel wrote:
At 7/1/2014 7:19:00 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Christains say he is God, muslims say he isnt God, only a prophet... so both religions go together in many ways on who was Jesus to the point to this issue... Now reading some Bart ehrman works and many debates, in my understanding most of the evidence pointing to the second possible - Jesus was only a prophet, for example examining the Gospels, There is evolution from the earliest to the last gospel, from mere human to elavation being God himself, or seeing who was Jesus his deeds. saying, what Jesus thought to be or what poeple living around his life thought about him, why he didnt say him self that he was a God if its that he came to teach? why i like Bart ehrman works is because he is not taking the theological of poeple church or whatever... he takes the historical evidence, he takes many opinions bible scholars beside him.

Anyway for what or why you believe he was a God? why not a prophet or what you say of the evidences saying that he was only a prophet? do you have any issue of Bart's works?

From what I understand of Christian beliefs, they believe Jesus is God because spiritually he was motivated by the Spirit of God, spoke only the words which the Spirit within the body motivated him to speak and did only what the Spirit motivated him to do. That Spirit is God manifest through the physical body of the character.
That is why they consider the character Jesus to be the physical manifestation of God on earth.

However, they also believe they can be filled with the same Spirit. If that is true, logically that makes those who are filled with the same Spirit as Jesus was filled with, the physical manifestation of God on Earth today.

You (plural) are God ( plural) Psalm 82: 6 ( elohiym) , John 10:34 ( Theos)

The word God in Hebrew ( elohiym) is plural not singular.

In the Hebrew bible, sometime prophets called "God" - elohiym, but its not mean that they are God, its figure of speech, meaning that he is manifestation of God will, or a righteous person

and for the "plural" of elohiym, its part of the language, not trinity. there are 2 ways of plurals - plural of respect and plural of numbers, this is plural of respect not father son and holy ghost.
Never fart near dog
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/2/2014 8:09:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are two Jesuses. One is the historical Jesus who was Yeishu ben Pantera who lived about a hundred years before the Jesus Christ of the Gospels which is based upon his life and teachings he developed and brought back from his upbringing in Egypt but highly supernaturalized to link Jesus Christ of the Gospels with the Son of God Messiah religious concept that is core to the true Celestial Torah.

Muhammad got his hands on some Gnostic Christian texts as scrolls and books were part of caravan looting and used these Gnostic ideas to form his notion that Jesus Christ of the Gospels used a substitute to be crucified for him and then lied about it to all Christians believers. But we can discount Muhammad's ideas as those of a jealous religious leader who was trying to capture both Moses' and Jesus' charisma for his own religion. That's what you're still doing, popmuslim, as a clone of Muhammad's mind that you sacrificed your own mind to receive and promote, your own mind now lost in the Muslim Uniform you've put on mentally. And now cannot think rationally as you let a dead man do your thinking for you and get it wrong of course thereby.

I teach Celestial Torah Christianity because no rabbis know it today but it is the astrological Code embedded within Scriptures, even in some in the Quran, as God is slier than the Scripture writers and managed to get the true Messiah Message across the generations. The Jewish Bible, the New Testament, the Quran, all Abrahamic faiths are now without spiritual authority by themselves as without knowing the Celestial Torah information you are stuck with religious liars telling gigantic fibs about events and people that never existed. Archeological science proves this with No, repeat no, archeological traces of the people who wrote the Bible stories before 700 B.C. making all the earlier stories bogus starting with Abraham. Celestial Torah is astrological information and therefore unreacheable by priesthood hands so it remains PURE of human territorial agendas as true spiritual instruction from God.
Skyangel
Posts: 8,234
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7/2/2014 7:25:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 4:55:57 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/2/2014 1:26:02 AM, Skyangel wrote:
. . . . . You don't even believe what is written in the bible . . . .
So the bible states there are Immortal worms -

Mark 9:44:
Where their worm dieth not, . . . . . .

Do you believe the bible that there are immortal worms?


Of course not. Don't be so stupid Robert. Obviously you need to study the meaning of the metaphor. You might actually learn something if you make the effort to worm your way out of your own stupidity. Be careful though because you might open a can of worms and end up finding a few immortal ones in that can.
Is that "can of worms" a literal can of worms, Robert?

Psalm 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

Was that Psalmist saying he was a literal worm? Of course not.

The worm is metaphoric of reproach, weakness, helplessness.

"Where the worm dieth not" is about eternal reproach. It has nothing to do with worms any more than "the can or worms" does.