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The Abusing Use of Faith

ChristianPunk
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7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,386
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7/3/2014 11:54:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.
A number of points you've made here CP, I may not respond in order of given issues, and may not cover all of them.

First off, I wouldn't place too much concern on what atheists think about Christianity. You can support theistic evolution and gay marriage, and still set some of them off just by talking about salvation which you seem to believe in. You're not going to win over atheists any more with your beliefs on science and homosexuality than atheists will win over Native Americans just because they denounce Christianity.

Secondly, there seems to be a huge misconception in relation to evangelical or fundamentalist Christianity and science. And it goes something like this.

People who are fascinated with science accept evolution, and those that don't, are the close-minded folks who are or become Bible believing Christians. So the statistically driven 60% of Americans who embrace naturalistic evolution (creationists don't deny evolution taking place) are those who are the open-minded folks who are just fascinated by science, and the 40% (which I'm a member of) just want to look the other way of what the telescope and the test tubes are saying.

I think if we apply statistics we can easily see that the actual interest in pure science is quite limited. Most Americans are fully satisfied with benefiting from science as opposed to understanding the historical scientific origin of these benefits of modern technology. So within that 60% only a small minority have a legitimate interest in pure science. That being the case, they place their faith on majority opinion from those who have made science their life (professional scientists). And within the 40% (the creationists), there are a minority who are just as fascinated by science as the evolutionist scientist, knows as much about science including evolution. We have to keep in mind that just as there are evolutionist scientists who were once creationists, there are also creationist scientists who were evolutionists. And they know about evolution and the evolution community (politics, logistics, etc.).

I've never heard anyone say "science is wrong", and even if they did, I think they probably mean to say that certain scientists are wrong (i.e., evolutionist scientists) not science itself.

As far as the homosexuality issue, which a lot of this has to do with, homophobia is universal. That is, it's not relegated to any religion like Christianity. There is a certain amount of abusive lingo aimed at homosexuals within the Christian community, however it exists in pretty much all spheres of humanity. I live in the San Francisco area, and there apparently are Christians who think that San Francisco is like Sodom & Gomorrah. I personally don't relate SF to S&G simply because S&G seemed to resemble more of a prison environment where public sexual defilement/abuse (forced sex) took place. The gay communities in SF are quite tame. And the view of homosexuality has changed from the idea of perverts stalking other men to genuine love relationships, even monogamous marriages. However, we have to keep in mind that the man involved in incest in 1 Corinthians 5 may have been in a very loving and caring relationship with that woman. However, according to the Bible it was an act of sin. How would you treat that issue?

If you don't believe in certain things things the Bible states as fact, why would you believe any of it? Why would you believe in salvation foe instance?
ChristianPunk
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7/3/2014 12:20:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 11:54:08 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.
A number of points you've made here CP, I may not respond in order of given issues, and may not cover all of them.

First off, I wouldn't place too much concern on what atheists think about Christianity. You can support theistic evolution and gay marriage, and still set some of them off just by talking about salvation which you seem to believe in. You're not going to win over atheists any more with your beliefs on science and homosexuality than atheists will win over Native Americans just because they denounce Christianity.

Secondly, there seems to be a huge misconception in relation to evangelical or fundamentalist Christianity and science. And it goes something like this.

People who are fascinated with science accept evolution, and those that don't, are the close-minded folks who are or become Bible believing Christians. So the statistically driven 60% of Americans who embrace naturalistic evolution (creationists don't deny evolution taking place) are those who are the open-minded folks who are just fascinated by science, and the 40% (which I'm a member of) just want to look the other way of what the telescope and the test tubes are saying.

I think if we apply statistics we can easily see that the actual interest in pure science is quite limited. Most Americans are fully satisfied with benefiting from science as opposed to understanding the historical scientific origin of these benefits of modern technology. So within that 60% only a small minority have a legitimate interest in pure science. That being the case, they place their faith on majority opinion from those who have made science their life (professional scientists). And within the 40% (the creationists), there are a minority who are just as fascinated by science as the evolutionist scientist, knows as much about science including evolution. We have to keep in mind that just as there are evolutionist scientists who were once creationists, there are also creationist scientists who were evolutionists. And they know about evolution and the evolution community (politics, logistics, etc.).

I've never heard anyone say "science is wrong", and even if they did, I think they probably mean to say that certain scientists are wrong (i.e., evolutionist scientists) not science itself.

As far as the homosexuality issue, which a lot of this has to do with, homophobia is universal. That is, it's not relegated to any religion like Christianity. There is a certain amount of abusive lingo aimed at homosexuals within the Christian community, however it exists in pretty much all spheres of humanity. I live in the San Francisco area, and there apparently are Christians who think that San Francisco is like Sodom & Gomorrah. I personally don't relate SF to S&G simply because S&G seemed to resemble more of a prison environment where public sexual defilement/abuse (forced sex) took place. The gay communities in SF are quite tame. And the view of homosexuality has changed from the idea of perverts stalking other men to genuine love relationships, even monogamous marriages. However, we have to keep in mind that the man involved in incest in 1 Corinthians 5 may have been in a very loving and caring relationship with that woman. However, according to the Bible it was an act of sin. How would you treat that issue?

If you don't believe in certain things things the Bible states as fact, why would you believe any of it? Why would you believe in salvation foe instance?

Do you believe that Jonah was swallowed up by a great fish (whale) and survived after 3 days? Like do you believe it is literal? I believe in salvation as a personal thing. And I believe it because it was something I started believing after my life got too full of stress and self hatred.

The issue of incest is wrong. Science can even prove that because the offspring of an incestuous relationship can lead to some birth defects. So yes, not only is it a sin, it's a hazard to the children's health.
RoderickSpode
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7/3/2014 12:59:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 12:20:12 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Do you believe that Jonah was swallowed up by a great fish (whale) and survived after 3 days? Like do you believe it is literal? I believe in salvation as a personal thing. And I believe it because it was something I started believing after my life got too full of stress and self hatred.

This really goes back to the question of creation. It's absolutely impossible scientifically to create a universe. So if God performed the impossible by creating a universe, would it be impossible for God to keep a man alive inside a whale?

There are also some who believe that Jonah was actually dead during that time, and symbolically (to Jesus' death and resurrection) came back to life after being spewed out after 3 days. But even still, it would require the supernatural. Jesus' resurrection is impossible from a naturalistic standpoint, which is what you attribute to your salvation.

The issue of incest is wrong. Science can even prove that because the offspring of an incestuous relationship can lead to some birth defects. So yes, not only is it a sin, it's a hazard to the children's health.
There are a number of people who believe that Paul was most likely referring to a step-mother, and the New Living translation uses that term. But even if it wasn't, socially accepted norms like divorce have it's obvious negative affects particularly on children. Many people accept the idea that it's better for a man or woman to divorce and remarry someone more compatible for the sake of their happiness. But this doesn't work well with their children who in their eyes mom and dad belong together, and not to be shared. This does not involve physical health perse (although it could), but psychological emotional health. Do you think society is really knowledgeable enough at this early stage of the game to be able to accurately predict how gay marriage will affect society including children?
THE_OPINIONATOR
Posts: 575
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7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?
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ChristianPunk
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7/3/2014 2:28:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 12:59:42 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/3/2014 12:20:12 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Do you believe that Jonah was swallowed up by a great fish (whale) and survived after 3 days? Like do you believe it is literal? I believe in salvation as a personal thing. And I believe it because it was something I started believing after my life got too full of stress and self hatred.

This really goes back to the question of creation. It's absolutely impossible scientifically to create a universe. So if God performed the impossible by creating a universe, would it be impossible for God to keep a man alive inside a whale?

There are also some who believe that Jonah was actually dead during that time, and symbolically (to Jesus' death and resurrection) came back to life after being spewed out after 3 days. But even still, it would require the supernatural. Jesus' resurrection is impossible from a naturalistic standpoint, which is what you attribute to your salvation.

The issue of incest is wrong. Science can even prove that because the offspring of an incestuous relationship can lead to some birth defects. So yes, not only is it a sin, it's a hazard to the children's health.
There are a number of people who believe that Paul was most likely referring to a step-mother, and the New Living translation uses that term. But even if it wasn't, socially accepted norms like divorce have it's obvious negative affects particularly on children. Many people accept the idea that it's better for a man or woman to divorce and remarry someone more compatible for the sake of their happiness. But this doesn't work well with their children who in their eyes mom and dad belong together, and not to be shared. This does not involve physical health perse (although it could), but psychological emotional health. Do you think society is really knowledgeable enough at this early stage of the game to be able to accurately predict how gay marriage will affect society including children?

What's wrong with gay marriage?
ChristianPunk
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7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.
THE_OPINIONATOR
Posts: 575
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7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.
My Blog: Life Through The Eyes of a Christian

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THE_OPINIONATOR
Posts: 575
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7/3/2014 7:04:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 12:59:42 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/3/2014 12:20:12 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Do you believe that Jonah was swallowed up by a great fish (whale) and survived after 3 days? Like do you believe it is literal? I believe in salvation as a personal thing. And I believe it because it was something I started believing after my life got too full of stress and self hatred.

This really goes back to the question of creation. It's absolutely impossible scientifically to create a universe. So if God performed the impossible by creating a universe, would it be impossible for God to keep a man alive inside a whale?

There are also some who believe that Jonah was actually dead during that time, and symbolically (to Jesus' death and resurrection) came back to life after being spewed out after 3 days. But even still, it would require the supernatural. Jesus' resurrection is impossible from a naturalistic standpoint, which is what you attribute to your salvation.

The issue of incest is wrong. Science can even prove that because the offspring of an incestuous relationship can lead to some birth defects. So yes, not only is it a sin, it's a hazard to the children's health.
There are a number of people who believe that Paul was most likely referring to a step-mother, and the New Living translation uses that term. But even if it wasn't, socially accepted norms like divorce have it's obvious negative affects particularly on children. Many people accept the idea that it's better for a man or woman to divorce and remarry someone more compatible for the sake of their happiness. But this doesn't work well with their children who in their eyes mom and dad belong together, and not to be shared. This does not involve physical health perse (although it could), but psychological emotional health. Do you think society is really knowledgeable enough at this early stage of the game to be able to accurately predict how gay marriage will affect society including children?

I mean God created the world, so Jonah had no problem living in that whale.
My Blog: Life Through The Eyes of a Christian

http://bloggingforjchrist.blogspot.com...

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ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
RoderickSpode
Posts: 2,386
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7/4/2014 10:34:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 2:28:58 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 12:59:42 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/3/2014 12:20:12 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Do you believe that Jonah was swallowed up by a great fish (whale) and survived after 3 days? Like do you believe it is literal? I believe in salvation as a personal thing. And I believe it because it was something I started believing after my life got too full of stress and self hatred.

This really goes back to the question of creation. It's absolutely impossible scientifically to create a universe. So if God performed the impossible by creating a universe, would it be impossible for God to keep a man alive inside a whale?

There are also some who believe that Jonah was actually dead during that time, and symbolically (to Jesus' death and resurrection) came back to life after being spewed out after 3 days. But even still, it would require the supernatural. Jesus' resurrection is impossible from a naturalistic standpoint, which is what you attribute to your salvation.

The issue of incest is wrong. Science can even prove that because the offspring of an incestuous relationship can lead to some birth defects. So yes, not only is it a sin, it's a hazard to the children's health.
There are a number of people who believe that Paul was most likely referring to a step-mother, and the New Living translation uses that term. But even if it wasn't, socially accepted norms like divorce have it's obvious negative affects particularly on children. Many people accept the idea that it's better for a man or woman to divorce and remarry someone more compatible for the sake of their happiness. But this doesn't work well with their children who in their eyes mom and dad belong together, and not to be shared. This does not involve physical health perse (although it could), but psychological emotional health. Do you think society is really knowledgeable enough at this early stage of the game to be able to accurately predict how gay marriage will affect society including children?

What's wrong with gay marriage?
It depends on what you mean when asking the question. Scriptural or sociological/societal? Apparently you already know the scriptural reasons, and there seems to be a conflict in your interpretation of literalness according to annanicole.

As far as sociological/societal, at the moment gay marriage is a matter of utilizing one's right to vote. So when someone questions my personal stance against gay marriage, they are actually questioning my voting decision. And maybe even my right to vote, or my right to vote according to my preference. So if my right to vote against current, or future gay marriage related issues is violated, then that in itself is good reason to oppose gay marriage.

I would say there are problems that are already manifesting that have been already predicted. There are some cases where the rights of business owners to not cater to gay marriage/union functions are being labeled as discrimination, resulting in penalties. Basically, there's a lot of confusion going on. That being the case, I think we're dealing with something we are not prepared to handle.

Quite frankly, gay marriage could endanger religious freedom. There are external reasons to take a stance against gay marriage in the voting booth.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/4/2014 5:04:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

Nor is there any way for a professed Christian to prove that it isn't.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/4/2014 5:17:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:34:03 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:28:58 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 12:59:42 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/3/2014 12:20:12 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Do you believe that Jonah was swallowed up by a great fish (whale) and survived after 3 days? Like do you believe it is literal? I believe in salvation as a personal thing. And I believe it because it was something I started believing after my life got too full of stress and self hatred.

This really goes back to the question of creation. It's absolutely impossible scientifically to create a universe. So if God performed the impossible by creating a universe, would it be impossible for God to keep a man alive inside a whale?

There are also some who believe that Jonah was actually dead during that time, and symbolically (to Jesus' death and resurrection) came back to life after being spewed out after 3 days. But even still, it would require the supernatural. Jesus' resurrection is impossible from a naturalistic standpoint, which is what you attribute to your salvation.

The issue of incest is wrong. Science can even prove that because the offspring of an incestuous relationship can lead to some birth defects. So yes, not only is it a sin, it's a hazard to the children's health.
There are a number of people who believe that Paul was most likely referring to a step-mother, and the New Living translation uses that term. But even if it wasn't, socially accepted norms like divorce have it's obvious negative affects particularly on children. Many people accept the idea that it's better for a man or woman to divorce and remarry someone more compatible for the sake of their happiness. But this doesn't work well with their children who in their eyes mom and dad belong together, and not to be shared. This does not involve physical health perse (although it could), but psychological emotional health. Do you think society is really knowledgeable enough at this early stage of the game to be able to accurately predict how gay marriage will affect society including children?

What's wrong with gay marriage?
It depends on what you mean when asking the question. Scriptural or sociological/societal? Apparently you already know the scriptural reasons, and there seems to be a conflict in your interpretation of literalness according to annanicole.

As far as sociological/societal, at the moment gay marriage is a matter of utilizing one's right to vote. So when someone questions my personal stance against gay marriage, they are actually questioning my voting decision. And maybe even my right to vote, or my right to vote according to my preference. So if my right to vote against current, or future gay marriage related issues is violated, then that in itself is good reason to oppose gay marriage.

I would say there are problems that are already manifesting that have been already predicted. There are some cases where the rights of business owners to not cater to gay marriage/union functions are being labeled as discrimination, resulting in penalties. Basically, there's a lot of confusion going on. That being the case, I think we're dealing with something we are not prepared to handle.

Quite frankly, gay marriage could endanger religious freedom. There are external reasons to take a stance against gay marriage in the voting booth.

Gay marriage is not going to lead to the endangerment of religious freedom. That is the DUMBEST excuse republicans use. Oh you want to refuse gay people food? That's discrimination and violates the separation of church and state. Unless this was a Christian cake factory where it strictly for Christians and only Christians, then that's a different story. But if it's a secular place like Hobby Lobby or Little Caesars, you are not allowed to let your religious beliefs interfere with your work unless they are personal to you and only affect you. Examples

I work at Little Caesars and this muslim guy comes in. He can't have grease from our cutters go on his cheese pizza since they are not allowed to eat any trace of pork or meat. So I had to wash the cutter twice because this girl refused to do anything different with the pizza and was close to saying "If you don't like how we cut pizza, then leave." We told her that it was disrespectful, but then she goes to say "He wouldn't have this if he followed our Lord Jesus Christ. I was just doing my job and I am not going to serve food to somebody who disagrees with me."

Hobby Lobby refused to pay health coverage (which some workers get there) because an employee was about to have an abortion. This place had Christian managers who refused and left the woman to pay most of the money needed. The next day, they are called heroes of religious freedom.

Think about this, if you worked for a muslim boss and he wanted to practice sharia law on his employees or tell his workers to fast on Ramadan, then if he were to act like Christians want other businesses to be like, then he would make you start following and believing his stuff and then you cry it's not fair when he's practicing the same Religious Freedom crap your spitting.

When people ask about gay marriage, they are not concerned about your voting rights. They are concerned about what you think since people call it evil, wicked or a mockery. All of those which are false by the way.

People who cater to gay people, wouldn't have a problem catering to muslims, hindus or other religions or colors or races, but as long as they are heterosexual. Once again, the caterers don't have a choice because it's a business. You say no to people and you don't have a reason (which happens at my work when we are wanting to close down), then your a jerk who should be fired. If you say no to people and your reason is because it's your religion, then your a discriminating bigot who Christ warned us about.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/4/2014 5:24:20 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

I see what condemns gay sex in the same manner I see we are not allowed to eat shrimp, lobster, and rabbits. It's also written in the same area that says God approves of dads selling their daughters into slavery, people murdering those who work on the Sabbath, The whole town stoning a kid if he disobeys his parents, The whole town stoning people who plant crops side by side, and burning people who wear clothes made of two fabrics. Do you do any of those things mam?
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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7/4/2014 5:26:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

Just out of curiosity: If creation didn't happen, and yet the Bible is true, then explain to me exactly what the Bible meant when it talks about the Garden of Eden. Explain to me what Noah's Flood was. If it wasn't literal, and it wasn't written in an allegorical way, why did the Bible insert it in the Book of Genesis.
I'm just asking; I'm not trying to attack you.
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ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/4/2014 5:37:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 5:26:48 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

Just out of curiosity: If creation didn't happen, and yet the Bible is true, then explain to me exactly what the Bible meant when it talks about the Garden of Eden. Explain to me what Noah's Flood was. If it wasn't literal, and it wasn't written in an allegorical way, why did the Bible insert it in the Book of Genesis.
I'm just asking; I'm not trying to attack you.

I don't know and can't say. The beginning of life or the universe is a mystery and I would be lying if I said, that I knew what happened. I'm an agnostic on this kind of stuff. Some people say Adam and Eve is just the allegory of Man and Woman. Some people think the flood is true, but I am doubting it at times. I believe it could also be another parable. So I don't know what it's purpose is and I can't give you an answer that's probably what you expect.
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/4/2014 9:46:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 5:04:22 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

Nor is there any way for a professed Christian to prove that it isn't.

Christians do not decide what is acceptable before God by gathering together a bunch of "thou shalt nots", then assuming that everything else must be just fine. By that token, we could serve donuts and coffee as the Lord's Supper. After all, the Bible doesn't say not to.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/4/2014 9:48:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 5:24:20 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

I see what condemns gay sex in the same manner I see we are not allowed to eat shrimp, lobster, and rabbits. It's also written in the same area that says God approves of dads selling their daughters into slavery, people murdering those who work on the Sabbath, The whole town stoning a kid if he disobeys his parents, The whole town stoning people who plant crops side by side, and burning people who wear clothes made of two fabrics. Do you do any of those things mam?

That sounds like you are running back to the OT and claiming that those passages are the only passages concerning homosexual behavior. You know full well that adultery, fornication, homosexual acts, etc. are condemned in the NT.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/5/2014 9:10:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 9:48:31 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:24:20 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

I see what condemns gay sex in the same manner I see we are not allowed to eat shrimp, lobster, and rabbits. It's also written in the same area that says God approves of dads selling their daughters into slavery, people murdering those who work on the Sabbath, The whole town stoning a kid if he disobeys his parents, The whole town stoning people who plant crops side by side, and burning people who wear clothes made of two fabrics. Do you do any of those things mam?

That sounds like you are running back to the OT and claiming that those passages are the only passages concerning homosexual behavior. You know full well that adultery, fornication, homosexual acts, etc. are condemned in the NT.

Nope. Homosexual acts (that aren't being used for idoltry) are not condemned in the NT.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/5/2014 9:32:21 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 9:46:13 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:04:22 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

Nor is there any way for a professed Christian to prove that it isn't.

Christians do not decide what is acceptable before God by gathering together a bunch of "thou shalt nots", then assuming that everything else must be just fine. By that token, we could serve donuts and coffee as the Lord's Supper. After all, the Bible doesn't say not to.

In today's American culture, they do. And you could serve coffee and donuts as the Lord's Supper. One church I went to always did that.
ChristianPunk
Posts: 1,710
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7/5/2014 9:55:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 9:48:31 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:24:20 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

I see what condemns gay sex in the same manner I see we are not allowed to eat shrimp, lobster, and rabbits. It's also written in the same area that says God approves of dads selling their daughters into slavery, people murdering those who work on the Sabbath, The whole town stoning a kid if he disobeys his parents, The whole town stoning people who plant crops side by side, and burning people who wear clothes made of two fabrics. Do you do any of those things mam?

That sounds like you are running back to the OT and claiming that those passages are the only passages concerning homosexual behavior. You know full well that adultery, fornication, homosexual acts, etc. are condemned in the NT.

Let me go NT.

Did you follow one of Jesus' words by selling everything you own and giving it to the poor? What about the verse where Paul says women shall not have any authority over men. Which means women in jobs aren't allowed to have management positions to dominate over men. I had a couple of those bosses. Are they going to hell? And if you call your dad by his father rank, note the bible says in Matthew, "don't call anybody father upon the earth, for you have only one father." And the verse in Matthew which commands you not to plan for the future, which means save money for things like trips or colleges. People who make a ton of money, do
MadCornishBiker
Posts: 23,302
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7/5/2014 10:02:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

Faith is all too often abused. Any use of it to control others is wrong.

The true Christian followers do, as scripture says they must, filter people in or out according to their beliefs but they do not remove the choice of those people to believe what they wish to. It is simply a case of you either adhere to the terms and conditions or you are not part of the "club".

No-one has to believe what they do not wish to, any more that Christ's true followers have to accept those who refuse to believe what scripture teaches.

Revelation 22:11 gives humans the right to believe what they wish, however we all have to accept the consequences of our choices.
RoderickSpode
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7/5/2014 10:21:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 5:17:41 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:03 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:


Quite frankly, gay marriage could endanger religious freedom. There are external reasons to take a stance against gay marriage in the voting booth.

Gay marriage is not going to lead to the endangerment of religious freedom. That is the DUMBEST excuse republicans use. Oh you want to refuse gay people food? That's discrimination and violates the separation of church and state. Unless this was a Christian cake factory where it strictly for Christians and only Christians, then that's a different story. But if it's a secular place like Hobby Lobby or Little Caesars, you are not allowed to let your religious beliefs interfere with your work unless they are personal to you and only affect you. Examples

I work at Little Caesars and this muslim guy comes in. He can't have grease from our cutters go on his cheese pizza since they are not allowed to eat any trace of pork or meat. So I had to wash the cutter twice because this girl refused to do anything different with the pizza and was close to saying "If you don't like how we cut pizza, then leave." We told her that it was disrespectful, but then she goes to say "He wouldn't have this if he followed our Lord Jesus Christ. I was just doing my job and I am not going to serve food to somebody who disagrees with me."

Hobby Lobby refused to pay health coverage (which some workers get there) because an employee was about to have an abortion. This place had Christian managers who refused and left the woman to pay most of the money needed. The next day, they are called heroes of religious freedom.

Think about this, if you worked for a muslim boss and he wanted to practice sharia law on his employees or tell his workers to fast on Ramadan, then if he were to act like Christians want other businesses to be like, then he would make you start following and believing his stuff and then you cry it's not fair when he's practicing the same Religious Freedom crap your spitting.

When people ask about gay marriage, they are not concerned about your voting rights. They are concerned about what you think since people call it evil, wicked or a mockery. All of those which are false by the way.

People who cater to gay people, wouldn't have a problem catering to muslims, hindus or other religions or colors or races, but as long as they are heterosexual. Once again, the caterers don't have a choice because it's a business. You say no to people and you don't have a reason (which happens at my work when we are wanting to close down), then your a jerk who should be fired. If you say no to people and your reason is because it's your religion, then your a discriminating bigot who Christ warned us about.
I used the word could for a reason (as opposed to will).. I say it could happen because we're seeing evidence of it. So if there are instances where it has happened (about 3 or 4 particular instances), then we can logically assume it could happen on a broader scale.

I can give you links if you want, but for now I'll give a brief rundown.

There was an incident in Colorado involving a pastry catering company that typically bakes cakes for weddings. A gay couple attempted to have this company bake them a cake specifically for their wedding. The owner of the bakery explained to them that because of their religious beliefs, they do not make cakes for gay marriages. The owner made it clear that they would make anyone a cake for any other reason no matter what their sexual orientation is. In other words, they would have made them a cake if it wasn't being applied to a gay marriage. The other 3 or 4 scenarios (a photographer is the only one I can recall now) were for the most part identical situations.

The gay couple complained, and the owner of the bakery was given a warning from a judge that he must serve cakes for gay marriages or face penalties. The owner was basically charged with discrimination.

Do you think this is a valid charge? Is the bakery owner guilty of discrination?

http://www.denverpost.com...

(I went ahead and gave you a link).
ChristianPunk
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7/5/2014 10:53:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 10:21:35 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:17:41 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:03 AM, RoderickSpode wrote:


Quite frankly, gay marriage could endanger religious freedom. There are external reasons to take a stance against gay marriage in the voting booth.

Gay marriage is not going to lead to the endangerment of religious freedom. That is the DUMBEST excuse republicans use. Oh you want to refuse gay people food? That's discrimination and violates the separation of church and state. Unless this was a Christian cake factory where it strictly for Christians and only Christians, then that's a different story. But if it's a secular place like Hobby Lobby or Little Caesars, you are not allowed to let your religious beliefs interfere with your work unless they are personal to you and only affect you. Examples

I work at Little Caesars and this muslim guy comes in. He can't have grease from our cutters go on his cheese pizza since they are not allowed to eat any trace of pork or meat. So I had to wash the cutter twice because this girl refused to do anything different with the pizza and was close to saying "If you don't like how we cut pizza, then leave." We told her that it was disrespectful, but then she goes to say "He wouldn't have this if he followed our Lord Jesus Christ. I was just doing my job and I am not going to serve food to somebody who disagrees with me."

Hobby Lobby refused to pay health coverage (which some workers get there) because an employee was about to have an abortion. This place had Christian managers who refused and left the woman to pay most of the money needed. The next day, they are called heroes of religious freedom.

Think about this, if you worked for a muslim boss and he wanted to practice sharia law on his employees or tell his workers to fast on Ramadan, then if he were to act like Christians want other businesses to be like, then he would make you start following and believing his stuff and then you cry it's not fair when he's practicing the same Religious Freedom crap your spitting.

When people ask about gay marriage, they are not concerned about your voting rights. They are concerned about what you think since people call it evil, wicked or a mockery. All of those which are false by the way.

People who cater to gay people, wouldn't have a problem catering to muslims, hindus or other religions or colors or races, but as long as they are heterosexual. Once again, the caterers don't have a choice because it's a business. You say no to people and you don't have a reason (which happens at my work when we are wanting to close down), then your a jerk who should be fired. If you say no to people and your reason is because it's your religion, then your a discriminating bigot who Christ warned us about.
I used the word could for a reason (as opposed to will).. I say it could happen because we're seeing evidence of it. So if there are instances where it has happened (about 3 or 4 particular instances), then we can logically assume it could happen on a broader scale.

I can give you links if you want, but for now I'll give a brief rundown.

There was an incident in Colorado involving a pastry catering company that typically bakes cakes for weddings. A gay couple attempted to have this company bake them a cake specifically for their wedding. The owner of the bakery explained to them that because of their religious beliefs, they do not make cakes for gay marriages. The owner made it clear that they would make anyone a cake for any other reason no matter what their sexual orientation is. In other words, they would have made them a cake if it wasn't being applied to a gay marriage. The other 3 or 4 scenarios (a photographer is the only one I can recall now) were for the most part identical situations.

The gay couple complained, and the owner of the bakery was given a warning from a judge that he must serve cakes for gay marriages or face penalties. The owner was basically charged with discrimination.

Do you think this is a valid charge? Is the bakery owner guilty of discrination?

http://www.denverpost.com...

(I went ahead and gave you a link).

Absolutely. Masterpiece Cakes are not a religious organization like a Christian School. They do not have the right to refuse service to people when it comes to their religious beliefs. Would you let a muslim practice Sharia Law in the USA? Because saying this Christian should refuse service to somebody because they are gay, means the same thing for the muslim.

Also, they are saying that, but it ain't true. Go to Revelations 22:11 and you'll see that we are commanded to let those who are sinners still be sinners. It's about choice. We aren't going to refuse gay marriage because of biblical beliefs because it would be a violation of the Constitution and would violate would Jesus is telling us in Revelations.
Skepticalone
Posts: 6,137
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7/5/2014 11:26:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/3/2014 12:59:42 PM, RoderickSpode wrote:
At 7/3/2014 12:20:12 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:


Do you believe that Jonah was swallowed up by a great fish (whale) and survived after 3 days? Like do you believe it is literal? I believe in salvation as a personal thing. And I believe it because it was something I started believing after my life got too full of stress and self hatred.

This really goes back to the question of creation. It's absolutely impossible scientifically to create a universe. So if God performed the impossible by creating a universe, would it be impossible for God to keep a man alive inside a whale?

There are also some who believe that Jonah was actually dead during that time, and symbolically (to Jesus' death and resurrection) came back to life after being spewed out after 3 days. But even still, it would require the supernatural. Jesus' resurrection is impossible from a naturalistic standpoint, which is what you attribute to your salvation.

The issue of incest is wrong. Science can even prove that because the offspring of an incestuous relationship can lead to some birth defects. So yes, not only is it a sin, it's a hazard to the children's health.
There are a number of people who believe that Paul was most likely referring to a step-mother, and the New Living translation uses that term. But even if it wasn't, socially accepted norms like divorce have it's obvious negative affects particularly on children. Many people accept the idea that it's better for a man or woman to divorce and remarry someone more compatible for the sake of their happiness. But this doesn't work well with their children who in their eyes mom and dad belong together, and not to be shared. This does not involve physical health perse (although it could), but psychological emotional health. Do you think society is really knowledgeable enough at this early stage of the game to be able to accurately predict how gay marriage will affect society including children?

How could gay marriage affect society in a worse way than heterosexual re-marriage? Christians typically overlook the fact that re-marriage is just as bad as homosexuality (according to the Bible). Condemnation of gays is nothing more the than bigotry based on a convenient and inconsistent application of the Bible.
This thread is like eavesdropping on a conversation in a mental asylum. - Bulproof

You can call your invisible friends whatever you like. - Desmac

What the hell kind of coked up sideshow has this thread turned into. - Casten
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/5/2014 1:21:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:32:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/4/2014 9:46:13 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:04:22 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

Nor is there any way for a professed Christian to prove that it isn't.

Christians do not decide what is acceptable before God by gathering together a bunch of "thou shalt nots", then assuming that everything else must be just fine. By that token, we could serve donuts and coffee as the Lord's Supper. After all, the Bible doesn't say not to.

In today's American culture, they do. And you could serve coffee and donuts as the Lord's Supper. One church I went to always did that.

Oh, you can do it. However, a group who does so has totally abandoned the Bible as their guide. And I doubt very seriously if even the most apostate, the most absurd, religious group would serve coffee and donuts as the Lord's Supper. Was that meant as a joke?
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/5/2014 1:26:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 9:10:28 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/4/2014 9:48:31 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:24:20 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

I see what condemns gay sex in the same manner I see we are not allowed to eat shrimp, lobster, and rabbits. It's also written in the same area that says God approves of dads selling their daughters into slavery, people murdering those who work on the Sabbath, The whole town stoning a kid if he disobeys his parents, The whole town stoning people who plant crops side by side, and burning people who wear clothes made of two fabrics. Do you do any of those things mam?

That sounds like you are running back to the OT and claiming that those passages are the only passages concerning homosexual behavior. You know full well that adultery, fornication, homosexual acts, etc. are condemned in the NT.

Nope. Homosexual acts (that aren't being used for idoltry) are not condemned in the NT.

I can solve this easily:

(1) Are sexual relations between a male and female under certain circumstances authorized by God?

(2) Are sexual relations between a male and another male under certain circumstances authorized by God?

(3) Is marriage between a man and woman authorized by God under certain circumstances?

(4) Is marriage between a man and another man authorized by God under certain circumstances
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
bulproof
Posts: 25,308
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7/5/2014 1:27:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 1:21:30 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:32:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/4/2014 9:46:13 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:04:22 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

Nor is there any way for a professed Christian to prove that it isn't.

Christians do not decide what is acceptable before God by gathering together a bunch of "thou shalt nots", then assuming that everything else must be just fine. By that token, we could serve donuts and coffee as the Lord's Supper. After all, the Bible doesn't say not to.

In today's American culture, they do. And you could serve coffee and donuts as the Lord's Supper. One church I went to always did that.

Oh, you can do it. However, a group who does so has totally abandoned the Bible as their guide. And I doubt very seriously if even the most apostate, the most absurd, religious group would serve coffee and donuts as the Lord's Supper. Was that meant as a joke?

Who made the bible the final arbiter for christians? Good old Martin Luther? You know Flat Earth Marty?
annanicole
Posts: 19,793
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7/5/2014 1:53:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 1:27:23 PM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/5/2014 1:21:30 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/5/2014 9:32:21 AM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/4/2014 9:46:13 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/4/2014 5:04:22 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 11:26:35 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/3/2014 10:01:25 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 7:01:56 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/3/2014 2:33:02 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
At 7/3/2014 1:29:52 PM, THE_OPINIONATOR wrote:
At 7/2/2014 10:37:49 PM, ChristianPunk wrote:
I have seen several videos about this topic and have heard Christians go about on what Faith is. Let me clarify what I am talking about. Most Christians claim that faith is the only key requirement to get to heaven. Some will use this as an excuse to not go after knowledge and wisdom in sciences, health and so forth. So it explains why when one is asked about the proof of certain events in the bible happening, people will immediately say that their evidence is their faith and that's all that matters. This can also lead to ignorance such as people finding evidence that being gay is not a choice. Some Christians will be like, "Ya see? God put that evidence to you, just so he can test our faith. We are born gay, but we can stop being gay." It is going to an age where the idea of Faith in any God who is known as the creator of all things, including knowledge, wisdom, science and the cosmos, turns into an idea of it being ok for everybody to be stupid.

The bible states several verses especially in Proverbs where knowledge and wisdom are good things to obtain. Sure, God was pissed when Adam and Eve took the freaking fruit, but God wasn't mad because they took fruit to make them smart as God, but they disobeyed in general. It's just like a kid who gets punished for doing something you tell them not to do. A kid will ask why, but sometimes the best answer is that the father or mother knows best. Eventually, you will grow up or adapt to know what it was. Then you'll thank them. Anyways, God encourages people to gain knowledge and anybody who tries to discourage a Christian or a student from learning or pursuing a career in science, evolution, philosophy, history, or anything else involving a high level of education, then shame on you.

This may be a rant, but know that I always want to make a point. I don't want atheists to think God promotes low intelligence in my religion. I find it an insult to be honest. Some Christians will even take this ignorance and stupidity to the bible. They will not only say it's their faith in God, but they believe that whatever the bible or pastor says, is it. They feel like "Oh god made the earth. That's it. I don't wanna know how nor do I need to." I feel like if we teach this to our kids, it will destroy the next generation of explorers in science and reason. Pastors can also lie. If a pastor told you to jump off a bridge because he believed God could save your life and show you a vision of your future, would you do it? Seriously, I want a Christian to answer.

"Well science lies!" I'm afraid it doesn't. Many Christian thinkers have existed back then such as Issac Newton, Galileo. Francis Bacon, and Rene Descartes. They could prove many things with science and be scientists while believing in God. This type of science is called Value Free Science. You don't put your values into it. A science like creationism is merely a Value Science since it uses personal Christian beliefs and not universal truth that all religions and humans agree on. So look up the scientists I've stated and tell me if they were wrong. Also, Big Bang sounds like Genesis 1 to me. So will you stop complaining about that? If your not, then stop bragging as well.

Anyways, I encourage people to have the free will decision to look into research of science, philosophy and other things that can help improve critical thinking, because we will need it one day when disasters hit or when our society needs to improve.

You need to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior, and be saved by grace.

Here is what Biblical faith is:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

(Hebrews 11:1-3 ESV)

And as far as the Big Bang Theory goes, you can't blow up a Honda and expect to get a Lamborghini out of it now can you?

I don't know if your a troll or not. Btw, I have been saved and accept God's love. Funny thing is, when I didn't, I told gays to burn in hell. Now I believe they will be in heaven.

Amen to Hebrews bro.

And the Big Bang Theory is not an explosion like that. You clearly shouldn't be talking about this if you have no idea what it is. The Big Bang is an expansion of the stars and is the start of the universe. Currently, our universe is continuing to expand and become bigger, building new planets. In the meantime, other universes with their own planets and intelligent life is being formed. So can you tell me that you knew that.

I know what the big bang is my friend, I tend to say things and post them and re think my analogies. Homosexuality in the eyes of the Lord is very wrong, according to scripture.

According to what it READS. But what it actually says is not literal. Give me the verses where God condemns people for being gay.

He never condemned them for being homosexual strictly speaking. Different people are tempted by different things: what tempts me may be of no concern whatsoever to you, and vice versa. I'm not the least bit tempted by alcohol: I do not like the taste or the effects of it. However, God does not condemn a former drunk who craves alcohol. He condemns him when, and only when, he lapses into habitual drunkenness.

You well know what passages condemn homosexual behavior. You told us last time that you ignore them because Jesus (who conceded to his disciples that, although He taught the truth, He did not reveal the whole truth) didn't say them.

There is absolutely no way for a professed Christian to prove that gay marriage is authorized, sanctioned, by God.

Nor is there any way for a professed Christian to prove that it isn't.

Christians do not decide what is acceptable before God by gathering together a bunch of "thou shalt nots", then assuming that everything else must be just fine. By that token, we could serve donuts and coffee as the Lord's Supper. After all, the Bible doesn't say not to.

In today's American culture, they do. And you could serve coffee and donuts as the Lord's Supper. One church I went to always did that.

Oh, you can do it. However, a group who does so has totally abandoned the Bible as their guide. And I doubt very seriously if even the most apostate, the most absurd, religious group would serve coffee and donuts as the Lord's Supper. Was that meant as a joke?

Who made the bible the final arbiter for christians? Good old Martin Luther? You know Flat Earth Marty?

You've studied the matter. Write u
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."