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Humans are basically evil

Truth_seeker
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7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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7/4/2014 8:31:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Most people are evil because they refuse to believe in dragons; that is evil incarnate.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Double_R
Posts: 4,886
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7/4/2014 9:43:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Your definition of evil is pointless, and is not consistent with how the word is actually used.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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7/4/2014 9:57:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Is Evil breaking the law?
If so what laws?
I not aware that telling a lie is breaking the law, unless in extreme cases where the lie is covering the truth and you are obstructing justice.

Oh and of course if you cite God for the law, please prove God. As with no proof all the laws you cite have no basis.
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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7/4/2014 10:18:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Anyone can accuse mankind of being evil, but good and evil are relative to the judgement of the judge thereof.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.
Never fart near dog
Truth_seeker
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7/4/2014 10:38:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:18:22 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.


Anyone can accuse mankind of being evil, but good and evil are relative to the judgement of the judge thereof.

That's why God is the judge
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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7/4/2014 10:39:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.

Morality is derived from God, but there are common things we consider wrong such as lying and murder.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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7/4/2014 10:52:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:39:46 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.

Morality is derived from God, but there are common things we consider wrong such as lying and murder.

Well ask the nazis or the criminals, they will tell you its right, environment influence us, if we lived in germany in 1940 it would be different. we all programmed by some stuff. if you read junky stuff your mind will be junky if you eat junky food your body will be junky.
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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7/4/2014 11:02:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:39:46 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.

Morality is derived from God, but there are common things we consider wrong such as lying and murder.

Morality is a result of evolution. No god involved.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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7/4/2014 11:28:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What if you believe the lie you tell. For example, if someone went on a debate site and made the statement "Humans are basically good.". Is this a lie - is it evil to say this? In a few Christian circles there a people who actually have a dogmatic belief that humans are basically evil. Is this a lie? Are you saying that a God created all man evil to punish man's evil ways? Is this what these people actually believe?

I think not - I think these are the ramblings of a confused and scared person who does not really understand his or her place in this world
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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7/4/2014 11:38:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 11:02:16 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:39:46 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.

Morality is derived from God, but there are common things we consider wrong such as lying and murder.

Morality is a result of evolution. No god involved.

BOOOOM right to the point
Never fart near dog
Hematite12
Posts: 400
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7/4/2014 12:10:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:39:46 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.

Morality is derived from God, but there are common things we consider wrong such as lying and murder.

Lying isn't inherently evil.

Murder is only inherently evil because it's evil by definition. If we're just talking about killing an innocent, then that is highly debatable.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/4/2014 3:44:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There are standards of evil behavior that cut across cultural lines such as family ties and those who destroy them on purpose seeking power. Only a few warped religious maniacs will sacrifice their family members to some abstract cause such as Evangelical Christians sacrificing their children's health to Bible commands, such as Muslims killing their children for "honor" as if there was any to be had.

Much "evil" human behavior will become known in the future as resulting from abnormal brain development, e.g, rage centers triggered by early trauma or religious teachings. Racist behavior will always appear as species will protect themselves from cross fertilization until the benefits of such outweigh the negative results. Even serial killers will be found to have brains frozen in old hunter modes twisted around childhood traumas. The lesson is Christian: people are not blocks of stone and can change and do, even killer apes can find God and repent.
always_rightgir
Posts: 1
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7/4/2014 3:58:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well you most not be human or have no social life because not all humans are evil and lf you do break the law you will get in jail no matter
DPMartin
Posts: 1,096
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7/5/2014 11:07:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:38:51 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:18:22 AM, DPMartin wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.


Anyone can accuse mankind of being evil, but good and evil are relative to the judgement of the judge thereof.

That's why God is the judge

Yes but what is judgement? And what is God"s Judgement? And we"re not total fools here, it is obvious that it is in your own judgement that humans are evil which would include yourself.

And is God the judge because you agree to His Judgements, or is God the Judge because He has the ultimate power to judge and enforce what He decides? Could it be that He would enforce your judgement of others on you?

Man"s judgement of others is death and because man has chosen his own judgement as good for himself he dies. God"s Judgement is life, and man"s is otherwise.
Truth_seeker
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8/2/2014 12:25:08 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 9:57:45 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Is Evil breaking the law?
If so what laws?
I not aware that telling a lie is breaking the law, unless in extreme cases where the lie is covering the truth and you are obstructing justice.

Oh and of course if you cite God for the law, please prove God. As with no proof all the laws you cite have no basis.

While lying isn't breaking the law, most people would consider it evil because evil is basically inflicting harm on others or on the self. Lying would be a violation of trust.
Avalona22
Posts: 1
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8/2/2014 2:10:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

You should read "People of Lie" by Scott Peck, PhD... it's basically what you're saying and the first time the subject of evil has even been addressed through clinical psychology. Please do look into it.

Also look into Gabriel of Urantia (http://gabrielofurantia.org...) and his teachings and the differing degrees of evil, sin, and iniquity and their effects on the individual as well as the whole.
iamanatheistandthisiswhy
Posts: 720
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8/2/2014 3:21:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/2/2014 12:25:08 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 9:57:45 AM, iamanatheistandthisiswhy wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Is Evil breaking the law?
If so what laws?
I not aware that telling a lie is breaking the law, unless in extreme cases where the lie is covering the truth and you are obstructing justice.

Oh and of course if you cite God for the law, please prove God. As with no proof all the laws you cite have no basis.

While lying isn't breaking the law, most people would consider it evil because evil is basically inflicting harm on others or on the self. Lying would be a violation of trust.

But the people that hid Anne Frank in their house were lying to the Nazis. Some would say this lying was a good thing, even though it did harm to the Nazis.
ChosenWolff
Posts: 3,361
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8/2/2014 3:32:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is no such thing as good or evil. Humans are driven by necessity and utility. Whether the actions they take towards those goals are predefined as good or bad.
How about NO elections?

#onlyonedeb8
Truth_seeker
Posts: 1,811
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8/2/2014 3:42:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 10:52:02 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:39:46 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.

Morality is derived from God, but there are common things we consider wrong such as lying and murder.

Well ask the nazis or the criminals, they will tell you its right, environment influence us, if we lived in germany in 1940 it would be different. we all programmed by some stuff. if you read junky stuff your mind will be junky if you eat junky food your body will be junky.

Environment does influence us, your right, but that doesn't mean that it's not wrong.
Material_Girl
Posts: 264
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8/2/2014 5:48:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Well, what is evil? To me, the word "evil," implies something beyond simply a negative act, it's an act almost wholly made up of negativity. But this is all interpretative. I call fascism an evil ideology, because to me, fascism's level of elitism and imposition of hierarchy on a would-be unified human race is beyond bad, it's horrific, and seems to be the product of a mind wanting nothing more than to harm humanity. Of course, though, fascists would argue that they're doing humanity a favour by segregating it. So since the definition of evil is subjective, one can't make the empirical claim that all humans are basically evil.

And then there's the idea that God defines good and evil, which creates a whole other set of problems relating to those who don't believe in God. If the existence of God was a universally acknowledged truth, if God made God's presence known frequently and to everyone, if the law was quite literally the word of God and it was undisputed, then God could be the one to define good and evil. But God's message itself isn't universally agreed on, and God's existence isn't a universal truth. As such, someone that isn't objective (or as objective as anything can be) themself cannot objectively define something. There are billions of definitions of good and evil, and almost as many interpretations of what God defines as good and evil. Of course, one's subjective truth can be that all humans are basically evil, and this isn't untrue to them. But this isn't an objective fact.

Additionally, there have been numerous pieces of scientific evidence that suggest that humans are not inherently negative, and I personally think that the ruling class use our supposed inherent negativity to convince us of a need for hierarchy, but that's a different issue.
http://commissaress.wordpress.com...

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Social Libertarian: -7.13

Yes, I am an evil godless commie.
birdlandmemories
Posts: 4,140
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8/2/2014 8:46:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:31:47 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Most people are evil because they refuse to believe in dragons; that is evil incarnate.

Most humans are stupid because they are lazy slobs on welfare.
Ashton
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,489
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8/2/2014 8:50:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/2/2014 3:42:43 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:52:02 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:39:46 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 7/4/2014 10:34:49 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

What do you mean by "evil"?? For me you doing evil by calling Jesus "God" and vise versa. Athiest choosing his evil and good by his definitions, however he likes, beacasue no God, no true morality. so its all relative as Einstein said.

Morality is derived from God, but there are common things we consider wrong such as lying and murder.

Well ask the nazis or the criminals, they will tell you its right, environment influence us, if we lived in germany in 1940 it would be different. we all programmed by some stuff. if you read junky stuff your mind will be junky if you eat junky food your body will be junky.

Environment does influence us, your right, but that doesn't mean that it's not wrong.

According to who? you? without God there is no right and wrong objectively, imagine psychopaths for them its ok do think the way they think, if we were programmed to be naked outside the house, we would be that way ok for us... anyway i believe in God and there is objectively unlike our atheist friends with subjectivity mind.
Never fart near dog
bulproof
Posts: 25,273
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8/3/2014 1:00:52 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/2/2014 8:46:43 PM, birdlandmemories wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:31:47 AM, bulproof wrote:
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Most people are evil because they refuse to believe in dragons; that is evil incarnate.

Most humans are stupid because they are lazy slobs on welfare.

Do you believe in dragons?
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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8/3/2014 1:04:38 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/4/2014 8:17:34 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I take the position that humans are basically evil. Just because most people haven't been caught breaking the law, doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. I know many people who broke the law and their crimes went unreported. Furthermore, in the eyes of God and others, lying is evil, but not necessarily in the eyes of the law. You can lie as long as it's not to the authorities.

Truth_seeker, I agree with you position. But I'm going to startle you by saying that God is no better than evil humans. In fact, he's far more evil than any of us, and if anything in this universe deserves to die for sin, he's at the top of the list.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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8/3/2014 1:07:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
God only created life in vain, because all life that has knowledge of God will hate him. I'm actually very pleased to know that God knows this. He deserves it.

But I do agree with your deep respect for Jesus--he's someone we can definitely look up to. But definitely not God, whom Jesus called the devil.
Juan_Pablo
Posts: 2,052
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8/3/2014 1:20:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
By the way, I am a Christian of sorts, because I do believe God punishes people for sins, but he irrefutably punishes us for his sin as well, for his incompetence, his limited power, and his ambitions revolving the construction of intelligent life.