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Jehovah's Witnesses

Installgentoo
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7/5/2014 12:09:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
A very nice young woman gave me a pamphlet outside a shop in London yesterday, entitled "Knowing why there is evil". It was a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet which said the Jehovah's Witnesses view was that there was evil on Earth because all of mankind is fallen, and must constantly praise God to prevent evil. This sounds a little cultish to me, but I won't pre-judge Jehovah's Witness people from the pamphlet. Can any Jehoavah's Witnesses tell me what their religion is about?
Composer
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7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:09:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
A very nice young woman gave me a pamphlet outside a shop in London yesterday, entitled "Knowing why there is evil". It was a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet which said the Jehovah's Witnesses view was that there was evil on Earth because all of mankind is fallen, and must constantly praise God to prevent evil. This sounds a little cultish to me, but I won't pre-judge Jehovah's Witness people from the pamphlet. Can any Jehoavah's Witnesses tell me what their religion is about?
I am no j.w, however I have studied their Cult ideology along with many others for decades and it likewise fails on virtually ALL accounts!

Their History is a succession of failures, false prophecies & all round fairly unique BS!

They are compelled to even preach lies when their Head Office dictates as they have dictated in the past. (Search for Douglas-Walsh Trial Transcript, Scotland, 1954) which shows this and how the rank & file must obey or face expulsion.

They have even created their own bible version and had to correct that already!

Their previous bible & NT Interlinear they dumped to dishonestly try to hide their past failures and replaced them with more favorable ones for their latest BS.

They also proudly preach that their god provides their teachings which badly for them as I said has flip-flopped even up to 100% despite their claim their god has told them the truth which turned out to be lies?

e.g. Archangel Mikey IS NOT jebus!

Oops!

Mikey IS the Pope!

Oops!

Mikey IS jebus!

Their Forums are incestuous and the minute they realise their BS can be decimated they Ban you from Posting & Or when they come to your door, & realise you have their measure, they run away dragging their BS with them.

I am currently even on a Forum where a j.w preaches that we must believe his propaganda e.g. STOP JUDGING! (Matt. 7:1) Botchtower propaganda -

Yet this idiot is a literal Judge in Courts of Law?

Hypocrisy is alive & well in their Cult!

I hope some respond & I'll have the pleasure of decimating them publicly!

Cheers!
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/5/2014 12:52:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM, Composer wrote:
How do you differentiate a cult from a religion? Christianity officially recognizes more than 38,000 denominations (to say nothing of the thousands which aren't officially recognized). There really isn't any way to claim that any Christian denomination is a "cult" without dragging the rest along with it. So I'm curious as to how you make the distinction.
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
Composer
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7/6/2014 3:47:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:52:40 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM, Composer wrote:
How do you differentiate a cult from a religion? Christianity officially recognizes more than 38,000 denominations (to say nothing of the thousands which aren't officially recognized). There really isn't any way to claim that any Christian denomination is a "cult" without dragging the rest along with it. So I'm curious as to how you make the distinction.
Well according to WordWeb the j.ws qualify as a Cult -

1. Followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader
2. Followers of an exclusive system of religious"beliefs and practices.

ALL religions are false because their evidence of a literal Supernatural god = zero!

The j.ws also try in vain to separate themselves from trinitarianism, however they actually have their own form of trinitarian beliefs, 1. father, 2. son 3. h-spirit.

We also have at least one of them Posting here (MCB) who has been repeatedly proven to be a malignant LIAR!

The Douglas-Walsh Trial Transcript, Scotland, 1954 also exposes their willingness to LIE, preach error and promote false prophecy or face expulsion by their masters at Bethel and to remain a member they agree to LIE as ordered!
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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7/6/2014 5:08:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/6/2014 3:47:16 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:52:40 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM, Composer wrote:
How do you differentiate a cult from a religion? Christianity officially recognizes more than 38,000 denominations (to say nothing of the thousands which aren't officially recognized). There really isn't any way to claim that any Christian denomination is a "cult" without dragging the rest along with it. So I'm curious as to how you make the distinction.
Well according to WordWeb the j.ws qualify as a Cult -

1. Followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader
2. Followers of an exclusive system of religious"beliefs and practices.

ALL religions are false because their evidence of a literal Supernatural god = zero!

The j.ws also try in vain to separate themselves from trinitarianism, however they actually have their own form of trinitarian beliefs, 1. father, 2. son 3. h-spirit.

We also have at least one of them Posting here (MCB) who has been repeatedly proven to be a malignant LIAR!

The Douglas-Walsh Trial Transcript, Scotland, 1954 also exposes their willingness to LIE, preach error and promote false prophecy or face expulsion by their masters at Bethel and to remain a member they agree to LIE as ordered!

They also wear magic underwear. Or was that Mormons?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/6/2014 11:20:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:09:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
A very nice young woman gave me a pamphlet outside a shop in London yesterday, entitled "Knowing why there is evil". It was a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet which said the Jehovah's Witnesses view was that there was evil on Earth because all of mankind is fallen, and must constantly praise God to prevent evil. This sounds a little cultish to me, but I won't pre-judge Jehovah's Witness people from the pamphlet. Can any Jehoavah's Witnesses tell me what their religion is about?

Bottom line, when all the smoke and mirrors clears: they blindly believe and teach whatever the WatchTower organization in Brooklyn tells them to believe and teach this week. Last week is gone, and they don't want to hear about it. As a tangent, they are also professional prophesy-interpreters who have never gotten a single prediction right.

You are correct that they believe that everyone, infants included, is a hereditarily-depraved, fallen victim of Adam's sin, counted as guilty before God. Thus God Himself must, through His Spirit, miraculously and mysteriously "enlighten" a person and "illluminate" his understanding. In other words, those who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses have their understanding miraculously "veiled" by Satan - so they can't understand if they want to. Those who have been "enlightened" can't misundertand if they want to. It's very convenient!
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
Composer
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7/7/2014 3:27:02 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/6/2014 5:08:39 AM, muzebreak wrote:
At 7/6/2014 3:47:16 AM, Composer wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:52:40 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM, Composer wrote:
How do you differentiate a cult from a religion? Christianity officially recognizes more than 38,000 denominations (to say nothing of the thousands which aren't officially recognized). There really isn't any way to claim that any Christian denomination is a "cult" without dragging the rest along with it. So I'm curious as to how you make the distinction.
Well according to WordWeb the j.ws qualify as a Cult -

1. Followers of an unorthodox, extremist, or false religion or sect who often live outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader
2. Followers of an exclusive system of religious"beliefs and practices.

ALL religions are false because their evidence of a literal Supernatural god = zero!

The j.ws also try in vain to separate themselves from trinitarianism, however they actually have their own form of trinitarian beliefs, 1. father, 2. son 3. h-spirit.

We also have at least one of them Posting here (MCB) who has been repeatedly proven to be a malignant LIAR!

The Douglas-Walsh Trial Transcript, Scotland, 1954 also exposes their willingness to LIE, preach error and promote false prophecy or face expulsion by their masters at Bethel and to remain a member they agree to LIE as ordered!

They also wear magic underwear. Or was that Mormons?
Yes, that's the whacky fruit-cake mormons!
ethang5
Posts: 4,104
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7/29/2014 1:50:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:52:40 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM, Composer wrote:
How do you differentiate a cult from a religion? Christianity officially recognizes more than 38,000 denominations (to say nothing of the thousands which aren't officially recognized).

When you say "Christianity officially recognizes...", what is "Christianity" in your comment?

There really isn't any way to claim that any Christian denomination is a "cult" without dragging the rest along with it.

Why can't your "Christianity" make their status "official" or "unofficial"?

So I'm curious as to how you make the distinction.

I'm curious how you make yours too.
Beastt
Posts: 5,135
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7/29/2014 2:45:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 1:50:57 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:52:40 AM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM, Composer wrote:
How do you differentiate a cult from a religion? Christianity officially recognizes more than 38,000 denominations (to say nothing of the thousands which aren't officially recognized).

When you say "Christianity officially recognizes...", what is "Christianity" in your comment?
The numbers are compiled by a number of different groups. They sometimes include comments regarding the difficulty of finding a definition which satisfies all of the denominations. But in general, if you believe Jesus was divine, and teach from the Bible, then the denomination qualifies as Christian.

It should be noted that the 38,000 figure is quite conservative. GordenConwel.edu estimates 45,000 for 2014, and projects 55,000 by 2025. On average, there are 2.4 new denominations popping up each day. In 1800, there were about 500 denominations.
http://www.gordonconwell.edu...

There really isn't any way to claim that any Christian denomination is a "cult" without dragging the rest along with it.

Why can't your "Christianity" make their status "official" or "unofficial"?
What do you mean by my "Christianity"? I'm obviously not a Christian.

So I'm curious as to how you make the distinction.

I'm curious how you make yours too.
I would agree that any group teaching the divinity of Jesus and working from the Bible would qualify as "Christian".
"If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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7/29/2014 4:29:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/6/2014 11:20:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:09:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
A very nice young woman gave me a pamphlet outside a shop in London yesterday, entitled "Knowing why there is evil". It was a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet which said the Jehovah's Witnesses view was that there was evil on Earth because all of mankind is fallen, and must constantly praise God to prevent evil. This sounds a little cultish to me, but I won't pre-judge Jehovah's Witness people from the pamphlet. Can any Jehoavah's Witnesses tell me what their religion is about?

Bottom line, when all the smoke and mirrors clears: they blindly believe and teach whatever the WatchTower organization in Brooklyn tells them to believe and teach this week. Last week is gone, and they don't want to hear about it. As a tangent, they are also professional prophesy-interpreters who have never gotten a single prediction right.

You are correct that they believe that everyone, infants included, is a hereditarily-depraved, fallen victim of Adam's sin, counted as guilty before God. Thus God Himself must, through His Spirit, miraculously and mysteriously "enlighten" a person and "illluminate" his understanding. In other words, those who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses have their understanding miraculously "veiled" by Satan - so they can't understand if they want to. Those who have been "enlightened" can't misundertand if they want to. It's very convenient!

That sounds exactly like christianity, to me.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/29/2014 4:32:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 4:29:19 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/6/2014 11:20:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:09:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
A very nice young woman gave me a pamphlet outside a shop in London yesterday, entitled "Knowing why there is evil". It was a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet which said the Jehovah's Witnesses view was that there was evil on Earth because all of mankind is fallen, and must constantly praise God to prevent evil. This sounds a little cultish to me, but I won't pre-judge Jehovah's Witness people from the pamphlet. Can any Jehoavah's Witnesses tell me what their religion is about?

Bottom line, when all the smoke and mirrors clears: they blindly believe and teach whatever the WatchTower organization in Brooklyn tells them to believe and teach this week. Last week is gone, and they don't want to hear about it. As a tangent, they are also professional prophesy-interpreters who have never gotten a single prediction right.

You are correct that they believe that everyone, infants included, is a hereditarily-depraved, fallen victim of Adam's sin, counted as guilty before God. Thus God Himself must, through His Spirit, miraculously and mysteriously "enlighten" a person and "illluminate" his understanding. In other words, those who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses have their understanding miraculously "veiled" by Satan - so they can't understand if they want to. Those who have been "enlightened" can't misundertand if they want to. It's very convenient!

That sounds exactly like christianity, to me.

No, that's Calvinism. It bears about the same resemblance to Christianity that Pig Latin bears to real Latin.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
irreverent_god
Posts: 1,378
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7/29/2014 4:40:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 4:32:26 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/29/2014 4:29:19 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/6/2014 11:20:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:09:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
A very nice young woman gave me a pamphlet outside a shop in London yesterday, entitled "Knowing why there is evil". It was a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet which said the Jehovah's Witnesses view was that there was evil on Earth because all of mankind is fallen, and must constantly praise God to prevent evil. This sounds a little cultish to me, but I won't pre-judge Jehovah's Witness people from the pamphlet. Can any Jehoavah's Witnesses tell me what their religion is about?

Bottom line, when all the smoke and mirrors clears: they blindly believe and teach whatever the WatchTower organization in Brooklyn tells them to believe and teach this week. Last week is gone, and they don't want to hear about it. As a tangent, they are also professional prophesy-interpreters who have never gotten a single prediction right.

You are correct that they believe that everyone, infants included, is a hereditarily-depraved, fallen victim of Adam's sin, counted as guilty before God. Thus God Himself must, through His Spirit, miraculously and mysteriously "enlighten" a person and "illluminate" his understanding. In other words, those who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses have their understanding miraculously "veiled" by Satan - so they can't understand if they want to. Those who have been "enlightened" can't misundertand if they want to. It's very convenient!

That sounds exactly like christianity, to me.

No, that's Calvinism. It bears about the same resemblance to Christianity that Pig Latin bears to real Latin.

I know you arrogantly refuse to acknowledge that anyone can be right about the bible, except you. Unfortunately for you, the fact of the matter is that the bible, itself (in its current form), is the product of the catholic church. Furthermore, all of the bible (NT and OT) are products of ignorant, deluded human beings that passed their ignorance and stupidstition on the subsequent generations. All christianity is christianity is christianity.

1- Belief in jehovah as gawd
2-Belief in the jeebus as the son of gawd
3-Belief in sin and vicarious redemption
4-Belief in angels/demons and spiritual realm guiding/controlling/manipulating humanity
5-Absolute refusal to accept the reality of biblical self-contradiction and biblical contradiction of physical reality
6-Acceptance of biblical text/message over and above any reality discovered or revealed in physical universe, even if observable reality is in direct contradiction to biblical text...

If all 6 criteria are met, it's a christian religion. Not receiving the AnnieStampOfApprovalForThingsChristian not withstanding, christianity remains christianity.
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
annanicole
Posts: 19,785
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7/29/2014 5:13:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 4:40:25 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/29/2014 4:32:26 PM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/29/2014 4:29:19 PM, irreverent_god wrote:
At 7/6/2014 11:20:43 AM, annanicole wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:09:49 AM, Installgentoo wrote:
A very nice young woman gave me a pamphlet outside a shop in London yesterday, entitled "Knowing why there is evil". It was a Jehovah's Witness pamphlet which said the Jehovah's Witnesses view was that there was evil on Earth because all of mankind is fallen, and must constantly praise God to prevent evil. This sounds a little cultish to me, but I won't pre-judge Jehovah's Witness people from the pamphlet. Can any Jehoavah's Witnesses tell me what their religion is about?

Bottom line, when all the smoke and mirrors clears: they blindly believe and teach whatever the WatchTower organization in Brooklyn tells them to believe and teach this week. Last week is gone, and they don't want to hear about it. As a tangent, they are also professional prophesy-interpreters who have never gotten a single prediction right.

You are correct that they believe that everyone, infants included, is a hereditarily-depraved, fallen victim of Adam's sin, counted as guilty before God. Thus God Himself must, through His Spirit, miraculously and mysteriously "enlighten" a person and "illluminate" his understanding. In other words, those who aren't Jehovah's Witnesses have their understanding miraculously "veiled" by Satan - so they can't understand if they want to. Those who have been "enlightened" can't misundertand if they want to. It's very convenient!

That sounds exactly like christianity, to me.

No, that's Calvinism. It bears about the same resemblance to Christianity that Pig Latin bears to real Latin.

I know you arrogantly refuse to acknowledge that anyone can be right about the bible, except you.

That's patently not true. There are a number of things, many, which are not revealed. People differ on these. There are additional things which are somewhat revealed, but vaguely, and we are left to conjecture about specifics.

Unfortunately for you, the fact of the matter is that the bible, itself (in its current form), is the product of the catholic church.

Regardless of quibbles, the Holy Scriptures are not the product of the Catholic Church. In fact, at the time the various books that constitute the New Testament were collected, there was no pope, no universal bishop.

Furthermore, all of the bible (NT and OT) are products of ignorant, deluded human beings that passed their ignorance and stupidstition on the subsequent generations. All christianity is christianity is christianity.

Now we've departed from facts and entered the looney bin, where your opinions are housed.

1- Belief in jehovah as gawd
2-Belief in the jeebus as the son of gawd
3-Belief in sin and vicarious redemption
4-Belief in angels/demons and spiritual realm guiding/controlling/manipulating humanity
5-Absolute refusal to accept the reality of biblical self-contradiction and biblical contradiction of physical reality
6-Acceptance of biblical text/message over and above any reality discovered or revealed in physical universe, even if observable reality is in direct contradiction to biblical text...

If all 6 criteria are met, it's a christian religion. Not receiving the AnnieStampOfApprovalForThingsChristian not withstanding, christianity remains christianity.

Sir, we'll define Christianity and the church of Christ based upon the New Testament, not based upon your whims and fancies. Of particular interest is #4: "Belief in angels/demons and spiritual realm guiding/controlling/manipulating humanity". I'd like to know where you copied that from, really - because it would take an absolute imbecile to say it. I've looked at quite a few atheist sites, and I do not recall running across that one. I've never claimed there is a "spiritual realm" that "controls" or "manipulates" humanity. In fact, I've repeatedly said the opposite.
Madcornishbiker: "No, I don't need a dictionary, I know how scripture uses words and that is all I need to now."
FiReObAmA
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7/29/2014 5:45:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
First you need to know how JW's are taught and raised. I married a disfellowed JW his mother and step dad wouldn't speak to him. We are now divorced. And I reached out to his mom, the grand mother of my two boys and they agreed to meet me and the boys two years ago. This is the first and last time we will ever see them, because they are JW's and they won't have anything to do with us. It is sad to say the least.

My next issue is there stand on government, they will get help through welfare programs, school grants ext... But they do not vote and will not stand for the pledge of allegiance.

Also there is a very big issue on blood transfusions, as a mother if something were to happen to my child and blood could save his life, I wouldn't think twice about it. This is something my ex and I argued about. I wound not let my child die this way, EVER.

Then we have pagan holidays, no birthday party, no christmas, no Easter, no thanks giving..

And also if the elders find someone in the church as done something they do not approve of, they will shun you, your own family will not be allowed to speak to you. We see this in Amish life styles as we'll.

While JW's abstain from blood, they indulge in alcohol like it is holy water. I got into a heated discussion with a JW and it went like this..
Me: your bible says to abstain from blood, my bible says to not drink blood. And to not be a drunkard.
JW's: we'll drinking blood is the same thing as having a blood transfusion.
Me: okay so we can drink beer and wine and become drunk in your religion but we can't save a life? We can kill are liver as most JW's I know drink more beer and wine than the bible says to. So it is okay to become drunk but not okay to inject blood?

This went on for a little whole tell I told this women to leave my house and never come back.. They are taught to have rebuttal versus for anything you have to say.. This women lost this argument. My ex husbands sisters and brothers are alcoholics as is my ex husband. He would drink him self to sleep every night. As I prayed he wouldn't get violent with me. I lived a secret life of abuse from him. JW's are a cult, they promise you love and a family inside there circle. But really they are just looking for more people to bring into there cult.
irreverent_god
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7/29/2014 7:11:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 5:13:51 PM, annanicole wrote:

I know you arrogantly refuse to acknowledge that anyone can be right about the bible, except you.

That's patently not true. There are a number of things, many, which are not revealed. People differ on these. There are additional things which are somewhat revealed, but vaguely, and we are left to conjecture about specifics.

I'm not really even sure that your response applies to what I stated. You 'speak' as though there isn't even the slightest possibility that anything you say could, in any way, be anything other than concrete fact. You belittle anyone that derives a different 'interpretation' of biblical scripture from that which you believe, and denigrate people's intellect as though having a belief in opposition to yours automatically relegates that individual to a lower standing. Conversely, you get irritated if anyone treats you that way. Now, tell me how that is "...patently not true."
Next, please tell me how "There are a number of things..." even applies to my first statement, to which this was a response? A number of things.... what? There are additional things... like what? And how does this answer the statement that you act as though you are the only one with accurate knowledge of the bible and what NT text does and does not mean/indicate/reveal? For someone so biblically 'enlightened,' you're not big on pertinent or relevant responses, are you?

Unfortunately for you, the fact of the matter is that the bible, itself (in its current form), is the product of the catholic church.

Regardless of quibbles, the Holy Scriptures are not the product of the Catholic Church. In fact, at the time the various books that constitute the New Testament were collected, there was no pope, no universal bishop.

The choices as to what went INTO the steaming pile of feces we now call the bible was selected by those that ultimately became the catholic church. They chose the texts (by vote) that became what you now call the bible. If they are so far removed from the jeebus, don't you think your gawd would have guided the bible (somehow) to have been chosen otherwise? Whether a pope had been chosen, or not, does not impact my statement, or its truth/veracity. Your elitist view of what does and does not constitute a real/valid 'christian' is still subject to catholic influence, via that which their church handed down to your sect. No matter how you slice it, christianity is still one big fat juicy conglomerate of thousands of different opinions, interpretations, and views. Yours is no more and no less valid than all of the others. They are all zero.

Furthermore, all of the bible (NT and OT) are products of ignorant, deluded human beings that passed their ignorance and stupidstition on the subsequent generations. All christianity is christianity is christianity.

Now we've departed from facts and entered the looney bin, where your opinions are housed.

This is funny. The bible was written by people that lived prior to the 3rd century. At that time, relatively speaking, humanity was EXTREMELY ignorant. Everything about the bible belies that it was written by people with this exact level of knowledge, and written FOR people whose knowledge was never expected to exceed that of the era of its writing. Everything about the bible show little or zero foresight. Every bit of it was written from the perspective that that which was known, at the time, was the sum total of all that was available to know, and the humans would never learn to split the atom, create the microprocessor, attain supersonic travel, or escape velocity. It was written with the perspective that that the Higs-Boson particle would never be discovered; from the perspective that satellites would never orbit the earth (only god); that humans would never be able to see clearly beyond their own solar system; that humans would never soar above the clouds (only birds would do that); that bats would never be classified as mammals, rather than birds; that lasers would never be able correct human vision...

But all of that is just crazy talk, I tell you... CRAZY talk. What was I thinking? Of course the bible was all that man would ever need to know, right? Heheheheheheheheheheh...

1- Belief in jehovah as gawd
2-Belief in the jeebus as the son of gawd
3-Belief in sin and vicarious redemption
4-Belief in angels/demons and spiritual realm guiding/controlling/manipulating humanity
5-Absolute refusal to accept the reality of biblical self-contradiction and biblical contradiction of physical reality
6-Acceptance of biblical text/message over and above any reality discovered or revealed in physical universe, even if observable reality is in direct contradiction to biblical text...

If all 6 criteria are met, it's a christian religion. Not receiving the AnnieStampOfApprovalForThingsChristian not withstanding, christianity remains christianity.

Sir, we'll define Christianity and the church of Christ based upon the New Testament, not based upon your whims and fancies. Of particular interest is #4: "Belief in angels/demons and spiritual realm guiding/controlling/manipulating humanity". I'd like to know where you copied that from, really - because it would take an absolute imbecile to say it. I've looked at quite a few atheist sites, and I do not recall running across that one. I've never claimed there is a "spiritual realm" that "controls" or "manipulates" humanity. In fact, I've repeatedly said the opposite.

I really don't care about all these six entries... I was being very tongue in cheek about how they were stated, anyway. My entire point was that whether you reject them or not, they are christians, to the rest of the world. Whether they reject you, or not, you are a christian, to the rest of the world. The fundamental fact is that belief in the bible, the jeebus, and vicarious redemption is fundamental to the label of christian, and you are not qualified speak for even your own gawd. Unless you are willing to go on record as stating that your gawd, himself, has revealed to you what is and is not a christian, you are not qualified. Unless you are willing to sound like 'bornofgod,' you are not qualified. All others that call themselves 'christian' are every bit as 'christian' as you are, to those of us who see your stupidstition for the bull5hit that it was, is, and ever shall be...
Logic and Reason are the precursor to Justice.
Faith and zealotry are the precursor to Folly.
ethang5
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7/30/2014 1:01:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/29/2014 2:45:43 PM, Beastt wrote:
At 7/29/2014 1:50:57 PM, ethang5 wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:49:41 AM, Composer wrote:

How do you differentiate a cult from a religion? Christianity officially recognizes more than 38,000 denominations (to say nothing of the thousands which aren't officially recognized).

When you say "Christianity officially recognizes...", what is "Christianity" in your comment?

The numbers are compiled by a number of different groups.

And these groups are "Official Christianity"?

They sometimes include comments regarding the difficulty of finding a definition which satisfies all of the denominations. But in general, if you believe Jesus was divine, and teach from the Bible, then the denomination qualifies as Christian.

If "officially recognized" by these "groups".

It should be noted that the 38,000 figure is quite conservative.

I have no issue with your number, just this shadowy group which deems denominations "officially" Christian.

There really isn't any way to claim that any Christian denomination is a "cult" without dragging the rest along with it.

Why can't your "Christianity" make their status "official" or "unofficial"?

What do you mean by my "Christianity"? I'm obviously not a Christian.

Yet you recognize some "group" as official arbiters of real Christianity. Ok, why can't this "group" make their status "official" or "unofficial"? If you are willing to accept their judgement for thousands of denominations, why would a claim of one being a cult drag the rest along with it?

Here is why. When you want to castigate Christianity by alluding to the many denominations, you love the "groups" and use them as the "Official" body conferring status. But, when you want some fringe loony cult included as "Christian" so you can imply guilt by association, your "groups" no longer enjoy "official" status and suddenly now cannot officially confer status without dragging all denominations down to cult status. Unfalsifiable arguments are wonderful aren't they?

So I'm curious as to how you make the distinction.

I'm curious how you make yours too.

I would agree that any group teaching the divinity of Jesus and working from the Bible would qualify as "Christian".

And you define the Bible as an "Evil Book". With your arguments this locked in, I wonder why you even waste your time with debate.