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Law of Apostasy in Torah/Old testment

POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/5/2014 11:10:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Today we hear many stuff about the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death, although its contradicts the Quran this is a big issue in daily time.... but what i find amusing is the punishment law of apostasy in the Torah (old testment) is killing him, which the bible includes Old and New testment.... anyway here the verses from Deuteronomy 13:6-12

6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

Here in this video - https://www.youtube.com... we see a Rabbi Jew admitting that the punishment is death by bringing him to the "bet din"/court with 2 witnesses (after a few minutes of screaming)... any other interpretations of that?
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Mineva
Posts: 336
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7/5/2014 11:40:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Hi,

This is another issue that stories (hadiths) harm islam. There is no punishment for apostasy in Islam but some people tries to add it in Islam through stories. There are so much this kind of adding efforts from Judaism to Islam, through stories.

Islam is Quran, follow only Quran.

Peace
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/5/2014 11:49:44 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 11:40:05 AM, Mineva wrote:
Hi,

This is another issue that stories (hadiths) harm islam. There is no punishment for apostasy in Islam but some people tries to add it in Islam through stories. There are so much this kind of adding efforts from Judaism to Islam, through stories.

Islam is Quran, follow only Quran.

Peace

i think the problem with the Hadtihs is complex.... what is right or wrong and in what context its talking about many things... anywayy i dont know why anybody mentioning this laws in the bible but when it comes to Islam its free to cast at them crap...
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POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/5/2014 11:51:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 11:49:44 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/5/2014 11:40:05 AM, Mineva wrote:
Hi,

This is another issue that stories (hadiths) harm islam. There is no punishment for apostasy in Islam but some people tries to add it in Islam through stories. There are so much this kind of adding efforts from Judaism to Islam, through stories.

Islam is Quran, follow only Quran.

Peace

i think the problem with the Hadtihs is complex.... what is right or wrong and in what context its talking about many things... anywayy i dont know why anybody mentioning this laws in the bible but when it comes to Islam its free to cast at them crap...

dont mentioning*** i need to eat my brain not working well lol
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lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/5/2014 11:57:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 11:40:05 AM, Mineva wrote:
Hi,

This is another issue that stories (hadiths) harm islam. There is no punishment for apostasy in Islam but some people tries to add it in Islam through stories. There are so much this kind of adding efforts from Judaism to Islam, through stories.

Islam is Quran, follow only Quran.

Peace

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

And supporting these verses in the Qur'an, we shall look at a hadith.

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Bukhari (84:57) - "[In the words of] Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"
Mineva
Posts: 336
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7/5/2014 12:01:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 11:57:56 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you :would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in :the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you :find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, :then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who :have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made :with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no :binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

Hi,

There were a topic about this issue, please read it, you know we cant write the same things over and over again : )

Peace
debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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7/5/2014 12:05:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 11:10:47 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Today we hear many stuff about the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death, although its contradicts the Quran this is a big issue in daily time.... but what i find amusing is the punishment law of apostasy in the Torah (old testment) is killing him, which the bible includes Old and New testment.... anyway here the verses from Deuteronomy 13:6-12

6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

Here in this video - https://www.youtube.com... we see a Rabbi Jew admitting that the punishment is death by bringing him to the "bet din"/court with 2 witnesses (after a few minutes of screaming)... any other interpretations of that?

What point are you trying to make here. Both are Abrahmic religions. Both are brutal. That is why I say religion is a creation of humans.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/5/2014 12:34:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 11:57:56 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/5/2014 11:40:05 AM, Mineva wrote:
Hi,

This is another issue that stories (hadiths) harm islam. There is no punishment for apostasy in Islam but some people tries to add it in Islam through stories. There are so much this kind of adding efforts from Judaism to Islam, through stories.

Islam is Quran, follow only Quran.

Peace

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

And supporting these verses in the Qur'an, we shall look at a hadith.

Bukhari (52:260) - "...The Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

Bukhari (84:57) - "[In the words of] Allah's Apostle, 'Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'"

hi genius guy qouting something out of context is childish do you know that? no you dont obviously.

Qur'an (4:89) - "They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper."

keep reading the next verse: 4:90
Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

This talking about poeple who fighting you trying to kill you its about war.

you qouting this verses:
Qur'an (9:11-12) - "But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge. And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist."

what you joking me??? do you know what treaty its about?? come on tell us before you searching for it. copy pasting verses and out context makes you look like a fool trying to be scholar.

about the hadiths,
1 if its contradicts the Quran, we reject them, there are over million hadiths and only 7000 chosen to be authentic by strict investigation. although there are some hadiths called "authentic" in raelity its not.

2 hadiths many times dont have context it just qoutes, for that many many hadiths seeming to contradict each other but if you take it with context there is none. the context of this hadith is in the time of the prophet when somebody left Islam, thats meant that person joining the pagans who fighting the muslims, we have hadiths poeple left islam freely and there was no punishment in the prophet presence.
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POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/5/2014 12:40:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:05:30 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/5/2014 11:10:47 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Today we hear many stuff about the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death, although its contradicts the Quran this is a big issue in daily time.... but what i find amusing is the punishment law of apostasy in the Torah (old testment) is killing him, which the bible includes Old and New testment.... anyway here the verses from Deuteronomy 13:6-12

6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

Here in this video - https://www.youtube.com... we see a Rabbi Jew admitting that the punishment is death by bringing him to the "bet din"/court with 2 witnesses (after a few minutes of screaming)... any other interpretations of that?

What point are you trying to make here. Both are Abrahmic religions. Both are brutal. That is why I say religion is a creation of humans.

no you talking nonsense. religion teachs poeple to live in peace, to help the needy and harmony between poeple. ofcource there are issue about violent and war because we are not living in heaven that anything is perfect. we live in real world, there are violent, crime etc.. so religion address the every way of life, generalizing the word "religion" as brutal is childish and one of dawkins stupid arguments.
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debateuser
Posts: 1,094
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7/5/2014 12:53:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:40:44 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:05:30 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/5/2014 11:10:47 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Today we hear many stuff about the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death, although its contradicts the Quran this is a big issue in daily time.... but what i find amusing is the punishment law of apostasy in the Torah (old testment) is killing him, which the bible includes Old and New testment.... anyway here the verses from Deuteronomy 13:6-12

6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

Here in this video - https://www.youtube.com... we see a Rabbi Jew admitting that the punishment is death by bringing him to the "bet din"/court with 2 witnesses (after a few minutes of screaming)... any other interpretations of that?

What point are you trying to make here. Both are Abrahmic religions. Both are brutal. That is why I say religion is a creation of humans.

no you talking nonsense. religion teachs poeple to live in peace, to help the needy and harmony between poeple. ofcource there are issue about violent and war because we are not living in heaven that anything is perfect. we live in real world, there are violent, crime etc.. so religion address the every way of life, generalizing the word "religion" as brutal is childish and one of dawkins stupid arguments.

You should read about crusades. That is what religion teaches to kill anybody in the name of God.
Scientific Errors In Religion : Atheists are right that religion is a myth

Read this topic on below link:

http://www.debate.org...
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/5/2014 1:23:57 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 12:53:21 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:40:44 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/5/2014 12:05:30 PM, debateuser wrote:
At 7/5/2014 11:10:47 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Today we hear many stuff about the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death, although its contradicts the Quran this is a big issue in daily time.... but what i find amusing is the punishment law of apostasy in the Torah (old testment) is killing him, which the bible includes Old and New testment.... anyway here the verses from Deuteronomy 13:6-12

6 "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son or your daughter or the wife you embrace[b] or your friend who is as your own soul entices you secretly, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods," which neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 some of the gods of the peoples who are around you, whether near you or far off from you, from the one end of the earth to the other, 8 you shall not yield to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him, nor shall you conceal him. 9 But you shall kill him. Your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. 10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 And all Israel shall hear and fear and never again do any such wickedness as this among you.

Here in this video - https://www.youtube.com... we see a Rabbi Jew admitting that the punishment is death by bringing him to the "bet din"/court with 2 witnesses (after a few minutes of screaming)... any other interpretations of that?

What point are you trying to make here. Both are Abrahmic religions. Both are brutal. That is why I say religion is a creation of humans.

no you talking nonsense. religion teachs poeple to live in peace, to help the needy and harmony between poeple. ofcource there are issue about violent and war because we are not living in heaven that anything is perfect. we live in real world, there are violent, crime etc.. so religion address the every way of life, generalizing the word "religion" as brutal is childish and one of dawkins stupid arguments.

You should read about crusades. That is what religion teaches to kill anybody in the name of God.

I know hisory history very well, if you claiming that you read history much more human being kiiled under the banner "scularism" compare to "religion wars". saying "religion teaches to kill anybody in the name of God" is just an opinion not fact just another lie. you can say whatver you like until tomorrow. , and please crusades is not Christainity. surly you know that the Bible teachs very good morals like love your neighbor as yourself, give charity... tell how many human beings die in the crusades compare to world war 2 ? zero (not talking the damage).
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bulproof
Posts: 25,250
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7/5/2014 1:47:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh no! The torah says to murder apostates! Who woulda thunk that muhammad would copy that as well?
Well that seals it then.
Go grab some stones Poo.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/5/2014 7:55:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/5/2014 1:47:54 PM, bulproof wrote:
Oh no! The torah says to murder apostates! Who woulda thunk that muhammad would copy that as well?
Well that seals it then.
Go grab some stones Poo.

Is that you in the picture man?? i didnt know that you are sooo beautiful dont let girls to see you otherwise they will kill each other to get you.. you are dangerous to society :D
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skinker
Posts: 345
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7/5/2014 8:06:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Religions do teach peace but Muhammadism isn't a religion but a nationalistic army scam calling itself a religion and using Jewish myths to build a false religious foundation.

None of the Muslims here should be listened to as they, like Mineva, are promoting Muhammadism as a totalitarian ideology that kills innocent peoples. Proof? Ask them why they support ISIS..