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Universe Infinity & Creation

 Posts: 2,737 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PMPosted: 2 years agoWell there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.Never fart near dog
 Posts: 3,648 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 3:22:25 AMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -This assumes that all universes are causally connected. The universes predicted by inflationary theory don't have any causal effect on another universe. Created by it. But I do see this as a problem in some cyclic models.In any case all of these are based on the B series of time, so there is no actual 'series of events' that lead to the universe per se, it's more like just a four dimensional object which exists tenselessly, containing all worlds.1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.Nothing absurd about it, if you imagine a tree which is infinitely beaching and branching, and one of those branches hits a 'dead end', like you describe, the number of new branches enormously outnumber the dead ends.There are lots of ways to visualise it.Moreover if the universe spontaneously originated ex nihilo, then whatever mechanism by which it did that is unlikely to only happen just once, so the multiverse aside, there would be a limitless number of global universes'
 Posts: 2,737 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 4:19:36 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 3:22:25 AM, Envisage wrote:At 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -This assumes that all universes are causally connected. The universes predicted by inflationary theory don't have any causal effect on another universe. Created by it. But I do see this as a problem in some cyclic models.In any case all of these are based on the B series of time, so there is no actual 'series of events' that lead to the universe per se, it's more like just a four dimensional object which exists tenselessly, containing all worlds.But first we dont know if there are other universes (assuming they are not connected..), even so, in a such case, every universe got the potential to cease it self and in infinite measure it probably will occur after a time.1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.Nothing absurd about it, if you imagine a tree which is infinitely beaching and branching, and one of those branches hits a 'dead end', like you describe, the number of new branches enormously outnumber the dead ends.Well thats make sense, but it must be in such conditions - infinitely beaching and branching and secondly they must not connected each other by some way because to not influence the others...There are lots of ways to visualise it.Moreover if the universe spontaneously originated ex nihilo, then whatever mechanism by which it did that is unlikely to only happen just once, so the multiverse aside, there would be a limitless number of global universes'Universe cant create it self from nothing, nothing will be always nothing.This problem is solved by some way taking the infinte universes and they dont connected by anyway.. but imagine if all the universes (infinite) got the potential to end it self, all unviverses will be finished by time, because everybody keep walking thoreds end. so1) we got infinity of universes2) everyone will be finished (got that potential)...3) so Infinity multiply by zero = zeroits like saying we have infinity of human beings but everyone will die at some point.Never fart near dog
 Posts: 5,135 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 6:24:22 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 4:19:36 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/6/2014 3:22:25 AM, Envisage wrote:Nothing absurd about it, if you imagine a tree which is infinitely beaching and branching, and one of those branches hits a 'dead end', like you describe, the number of new branches enormously outnumber the dead ends.Well thats make sense, but it must be in such conditions - infinitely beaching and branching and secondly they must not connected each other by some way because to not influence the others...There are lots of ways to visualise it.Moreover if the universe spontaneously originated ex nihilo, then whatever mechanism by which it did that is unlikely to only happen just once, so the multiverse aside, there would be a limitless number of global universes'Universe cant create it self from nothing, nothing will be always nothing.This problem is solved by some way taking the infinte universes and they dont connected by anyway.. but imagine if all the universes (infinite) got the potential to end it self, all unviverses will be finished by time, because everybody keep walking thoreds end. so1) we got infinity of universes2) everyone will be finished (got that potential)...3) so Infinity multiply by zero = zeroits like saying we have infinity of human beings but everyone will die at some point.I would love for someone to re-write your OP so that it can be understood. I can understand the difficulty if English isn't your primary language but... WOW!The universe was not created. The universe can't be created because the universe is primarily matter/energy in space-time and matter/energy can't be created (First Law of Thermodynamics). And while theists routinely try to make the First Law of Thermodynamics a property of the universe, that's not what it's saying at all. It's a property of matter/energy.With that understanding, prior to big-bang (which was a transformation event, not a creation event), the universe may have existed in an energy-only state. Big-bang would thus be the event which transformed much of the energy into matter, and caused the expansion. While I don't claim a sufficient grasp of physics to state this as being what happened, it may be possible that the massive conversion is also responsible for the expansion of space, and the merging of space and time.So... when you say "the universe created itself from nothing", you're spouting a creationist strawman. No version of big-bang cosmology begins with nothing. They all begin with pre-existence, as either energy, brane-worlds or a singularity.As for life, no matter how limited the odds, once you realize that there were likely millions (or billions) of locations on Earth where abiogenesis could have started, and billions of years where chemical reactions were taking place millions of times per day, the idea that the proper combination of chemicals would not occur is simply beyond any form of mathematical odds. Determine the odds against it happening in a single experiment. Then divide that by the number of days in a billion years, times a million reactions, times a few hundred million separate locations for reactions occurring simultaneously. Suddenly, rather than finding it extremely unlikely, we find it to be overwhelmingly likely. And none of that requires infinite time."If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
 Posts: 2,737 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 6:26:59 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 6:24:22 PM, Beastt wrote:I would love for someone to re-write your OP so that it can be understood. I can understand the difficulty if English isn't your primary language but... WOW!hhhhhh sorry man its not my language... atleast i can write something lolNever fart near dog
 Posts: 5,135 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 6:30:13 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 6:26:59 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/6/2014 6:24:22 PM, Beastt wrote:I would love for someone to re-write your OP so that it can be understood. I can understand the difficulty if English isn't your primary language but... WOW!hhhhhh sorry man its not my language... atleast i can write something lolAnd you can do so in more than one language while I can only write/speak English. So I do understand the difficulty you're under. I'm just saying that some of what you wrote doesn't really make any sense. I get the over-all intent, but some of the specifics get lost in the syntactic chaos."If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
 Posts: 5,192 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 7:55:58 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.I don't understand why you have to make it all so difficult. Basic probability tells us that even very unlikely things given enough trials or opportunities become likely.IE: The odds of flipping heads 10 times in a row is 1 to 1024. If you flip a coin 1024 times it becomes likely that you will get 10 heads in a row. You flip it 2048 times and it becomes even more likely.
 Posts: 2,737 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 7:58:03 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 7:55:58 PM, slo1 wrote:At 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.I don't understand why you have to make it all so difficult. Basic probability tells us that even very unlikely things given enough trials or opportunities become likely.IE: The odds of flipping heads 10 times in a row is 1 to 1024. If you flip a coin 1024 times it becomes likely that you will get 10 heads in a row. You flip it 2048 times and it becomes even more likely.Just using the same logic of athiests saying life came from chance, so i play the same logic to other stuff for that matter... and secondly im bored you know...Never fart near dog
 Posts: 5,135 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 8:10:29 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 7:58:03 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/6/2014 7:55:58 PM, slo1 wrote:At 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.I don't understand why you have to make it all so difficult. Basic probability tells us that even very unlikely things given enough trials or opportunities become likely.IE: The odds of flipping heads 10 times in a row is 1 to 1024. If you flip a coin 1024 times it becomes likely that you will get 10 heads in a row. You flip it 2048 times and it becomes even more likely.Just using the same logic of athiests saying life came from chance, so i play the same logic to other stuff for that matter... and secondly im bored you know...While creationists (known for dishonest tactics), like to calculate odds as if it were a matter of pure chance, that's not the reality. There is an element of chance, but chemicals don't just combine in non-specific chaotic fashion. When was the last time you mixed salt and water, but didn't get salt-water? It's not purely random and it's not purely chance. Chemicals combine only in accordance with their properties under given external factors. So you can't simply suggest that if fifty chemicals are needed for a particular molecule, that the odds of the molecule forming are 50^50, or 50 x 50.Another common and dishonest tactic is to cite known forms of life as a goal, and then suggest the odds of attaining that specific goal. If I asked you to pick a single card from a deck of 200-trillion unique cards, you'd have no more trouble doing so than you would in picking from a deck of 10 cards. It's only if I ask you to pick a specific card that the odds come into play.Suppose I place you in a helicopter a mile above a 1-mile square field. The field is lined off to a 1-inch grid pattern yielding over 4-billion 1-inch squares. I hand you a marble and tell you to drop it from the helicopter, onto the field.- The odds of it landing in any specific square are over 4-billion to one.- The odds that it will land in a 1-inch square space are 1 to 1."If we believe absurdities we shall commit atrocities." -- Voltaire
 Posts: 2,737 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/6/2014 8:13:25 PMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 6:24:22 PM, Beastt wrote:At 7/6/2014 4:19:36 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/6/2014 3:22:25 AM, Envisage wrote:Nothing absurd about it, if you imagine a tree which is infinitely beaching and branching, and one of those branches hits a 'dead end', like you describe, the number of new branches enormously outnumber the dead ends.Well thats make sense, but it must be in such conditions - infinitely beaching and branching and secondly they must not connected each other by some way because to not influence the others...There are lots of ways to visualise it.Moreover if the universe spontaneously originated ex nihilo, then whatever mechanism by which it did that is unlikely to only happen just once, so the multiverse aside, there would be a limitless number of global universes'Universe cant create it self from nothing, nothing will be always nothing.This problem is solved by some way taking the infinte universes and they dont connected by anyway.. but imagine if all the universes (infinite) got the potential to end it self, all unviverses will be finished by time, because everybody keep walking thoreds end. so1) we got infinity of universes2) everyone will be finished (got that potential)...3) so Infinity multiply by zero = zeroits like saying we have infinity of human beings but everyone will die at some point.I would love for someone to re-write your OP so that it can be understood. I can understand the difficulty if English isn't your primary language but... WOW!The universe was not created.Thats your opinion. we dont know for sure if the universe is infinite or not, each side gives you reasons and i think you know them...The universe can't be created because the universe is primarily matter/energy in space-time and matter/energy can't be created (First Law of Thermodynamics). And while theists routinely try to make the First Law of Thermodynamics a property of the universe, that's not what it's saying at all. It's a property of matter/energy.With that understanding, prior to big-bang (which was a transformation event, not a creation event), the universe may have existed in an energy-only state. Big-bang would thus be the event which transformed much of the energy into matter, and caused the expansion. While I don't claim a sufficient grasp of physics to state this as being what happened, it may be possible that the massive conversion is also responsible for the expansion of space, and the merging of space and time.So... when you say "the universe created itself from nothing", you're spouting a creationist strawman. No version of big-bang cosmology begins with nothing. They all begin with pre-existence, as either energy, brane-worlds or a singularity.Well i think thats is what lawrence krauss says if i remember correctly... he says something like that, anyway i saw some critics on this issue... i will check this issue in deep tomorow now its morning man need to sleep....As for life, no matter how limited the odds, once you realize that there were likely millions (or billions) of locations on Earth where abiogenesis could have started, and billions of years where chemical reactions were taking place millions of times per day, the idea that the proper combination of chemicals would not occur is simply beyond any form of mathematical odds. Determine the odds against it happening in a single experiment. Then divide that by the number of days in a billion years, times a million reactions, times a few hundred million separate locations for reactions occurring simultaneously. Suddenly, rather than finding it extremely unlikely, we find it to be overwhelmingly likely. And none of that requires infinite time.But regardless to life, anything can happen if you give to it infinite time, and you know we have (assuming) infinite past. thats my argument... anyway good nightNever fart near dog
 Posts: 5,192 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/7/2014 6:35:20 AMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/6/2014 7:58:03 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/6/2014 7:55:58 PM, slo1 wrote:At 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.I don't understand why you have to make it all so difficult. Basic probability tells us that even very unlikely things given enough trials or opportunities become likely.IE: The odds of flipping heads 10 times in a row is 1 to 1024. If you flip a coin 1024 times it becomes likely that you will get 10 heads in a row. You flip it 2048 times and it becomes even more likely.Just using the same logic of athiests saying life came from chance, so i play the same logic to other stuff for that matter... and secondly im bored you know...I don't think I read closely enough.You wrote:So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. How do you know this potential has not happened? Secondly, how would we know this because obviously if we are around that potential did not happen this last go around, if indeed there were more go arounds at it.
 Posts: 2,737 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/7/2014 7:28:08 AMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/7/2014 6:35:20 AM, slo1 wrote:At 7/6/2014 7:58:03 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/6/2014 7:55:58 PM, slo1 wrote:At 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.I don't understand why you have to make it all so difficult. Basic probability tells us that even very unlikely things given enough trials or opportunities become likely.IE: The odds of flipping heads 10 times in a row is 1 to 1024. If you flip a coin 1024 times it becomes likely that you will get 10 heads in a row. You flip it 2048 times and it becomes even more likely.Just using the same logic of athiests saying life came from chance, so i play the same logic to other stuff for that matter... and secondly im bored you know...I don't think I read closely enough.You wrote:So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. How do you know this potential has not happened? Secondly, how would we know this because obviously if we are around that potential did not happen this last go around, if indeed there were more go arounds at it.we dont know who will come first right? but in math it doesnt make sense because we have infinite past, infinite past + infinite future is equal infinite past alone, because they are all infinites, so it must happend somewhere in the past, its all mathimatics i dont think its applying to the real world...Never fart near dog
 Posts: 5,192 Add as FriendChallenge to a DebateSend a Message 7/7/2014 7:43:46 AMPosted: 2 years agoAt 7/7/2014 7:28:08 AM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/7/2014 6:35:20 AM, slo1 wrote:At 7/6/2014 7:58:03 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:At 7/6/2014 7:55:58 PM, slo1 wrote:At 7/5/2014 10:30:37 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:Well there are some athiests saying that if the universe has an infinite past events, thats mean its possible for life somehow to originate by it self, their argument is that the chances to happen something like that is very tiny small, but in infinite time all things become possible so this is their argument:1) the chances to occur something like life (by it self) very unlikely/improbable (lets call it - X)2) time = infinity3) therefore no matter how the chances (X) is small ( it can be 0.000....1/(billions of billions... of billions multiplying) it got the potential to exist/create it self,so if we multiplying X by inifinity = the chances becomes true and in the end it will be happen -X multiply by Infinity = it will occur sometime.So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. So -1) we have infinty of past events time = infinity2) the chances to create these conditions is very small = Y3) therefore infinity multiply by (Y) = its will ocuur sometime.But remember? we got infinite past sopast infinity............. we are here ......... future infinitySo if we have infinite past, it must be occured something in the past yep? that shows without God, infinity and the chance stuff is absurd claiming anything can happen.I don't understand why you have to make it all so difficult. Basic probability tells us that even very unlikely things given enough trials or opportunities become likely.IE: The odds of flipping heads 10 times in a row is 1 to 1024. If you flip a coin 1024 times it becomes likely that you will get 10 heads in a row. You flip it 2048 times and it becomes even more likely.Just using the same logic of athiests saying life came from chance, so i play the same logic to other stuff for that matter... and secondly im bored you know...I don't think I read closely enough.You wrote:So following the same logic, if we have infinity, it got the potential to create it self a conditions that it will stop its potential and to get to its end, what i mean is for example to become nothing, or create conditions that will never changes & nothing can be evolve/create in this stuff. How do you know this potential has not happened? Secondly, how would we know this because obviously if we are around that potential did not happen this last go around, if indeed there were more go arounds at it.we dont know who will come first right? but in math it doesnt make sense because we have infinite past, infinite past + infinite future is equal infinite past alone, because they are all infinites, so it must happend somewhere in the past, its all mathimatics i dont think its applying to the real world...You are in the mind set that it has to be one or the other, the universe happens or it does not happen. One of the greatest questions that is being sought after is whether all the matter in the universe just infinitely spreads apart or whether it comes back and collapses and then restarts another big bang. That question is largely dependent upon the shape of the universe. That then leads to question of whether this is the only universe or whether others exist.I think the point of the matter is that the questions you ask give arise to many other questions that we don't know the answer to. If there are an infinite number of universes it satisfies your inquiry as some universes work out and some do not form anything at all. I'm afraid the level of discovery needed to conform one way or another will not be found in our life time, but it is prudent to be open to wacky discoveries that may shed light on it either way.