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Is The TRINITY A Bible Teaching?

tosca1
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7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.
In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

"In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

The word Elohim is the plural of El, and is the first name for God given in the Tanakh.

The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient semitic language. However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead.

The next verse (Gen 1:2) speaks of the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters, followed by the first direct quote from God Himself.
"Let there be light..."

The creative activity of Elohim (God), and the presence of Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) are narrated by an omniscient Voice or Word of God.


http://www.hebrew4christians.com...

The Triune nature of the Godhead is shown in the first three verses of Genesis 1 of the Torah.


The WORD of God, or THE WORD, would be Jesus - as God incarnate - as mentioned in the New Testament:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Toviyah
Posts: 88
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7/7/2014 6:53:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM, tosca1 wrote:
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.
In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

"In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

The word Elohim is the plural of El, and is the first name for God given in the Tanakh.

The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient semitic language. However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead.

The next verse (Gen 1:2) speaks of the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters, followed by the first direct quote from God Himself.
"Let there be light..."

The creative activity of Elohim (God), and the presence of Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) are narrated by an omniscient Voice or Word of God.


http://www.hebrew4christians.com...



The Triune nature of the Godhead is shown in the first three verses of Genesis 1 of the Torah.



The WORD of God, or THE WORD, would be Jesus - as God incarnate - as mentioned in the New Testament:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
I like these videos by IP, they walk through the Trinity in the Old and New Testaments respectively.
tosca1
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7/7/2014 7:04:50 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gen 1:26
Let us make man in our image and in our likeness.

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/7/2014 8:24:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM, tosca1 wrote:
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.

No you are wrong.

In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

"In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

The word Elohim is the plural of El, and is the first name for God given in the Tanakh.

The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient semitic language.

No you are wrong. clearly you dont have any knowledge in Hebrew language, the word "Elohim" (God) is written in plural because in Hebrew language there are 2 forms of plural:

1 - plural of majesty/glory
2 - plural of numbers

This is just plural of majesty. now you cant cast away the rules of the Hebrew langauge and claim things that suits you. its not Trinity, the Jews never believed in such thing, and wont believe so, they believe only in 1 God.

You claiming that "no other ancient semitic language." (the plural form). thats absolutely wrong. in the Quran (Arabic and Hebrew are sister languages they are both semitic) when God speaks he does it in plural form here some examples:

12:2 - Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.
76:23 - "Surely We Ourselves have revealed the Quran to you revealing (it) in portions."
15:9 - We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."

In the Quran there is no more than 1 God or some Trinity, its part of the language like Hebrew its the plural representing Majesty thats all. now your problem Christains you throwing away the rules of its language and giving meaning whatever you want, no you dont do that.

However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity),

No, Where do you find "Hashalush ( the Three) HaKadosh (the Holy)" in the Old testment? there is no "Hashalush HaKadosh" in the Hebrew Bible, just becasue you translated "Trinity" into Hebrew, it doesnt make its written in the OT.

the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead.

The next verse (Gen 1:2) speaks of the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters, followed by the first direct quote from God Himself.
"Let there be light..."

The creative activity of Elohim (God), and the presence of Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) are narrated by an omniscient Voice or Word of God.


http://www.hebrew4christians.com...



The Triune nature of the Godhead is shown in the first three verses of Genesis 1 of the Torah.



The WORD of God, or THE WORD, would be Jesus - as God incarnate - as mentioned in the New Testament:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/7/2014 8:24:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM, tosca1 wrote:
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.

No you are wrong.

In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

"In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

The word Elohim is the plural of El, and is the first name for God given in the Tanakh.

The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient semitic language.

No you are wrong. clearly you dont have any knowledge in Hebrew language, the word "Elohim" (God) is written in plural because in Hebrew language there are 2 forms of plural:

1 - plural of majesty/glory
2 - plural of numbers

This is just plural of majesty. now you cant cast away the rules of the Hebrew langauge and claim things that suits you. its not Trinity, the Jews never believed in such thing, and wont believe so, they believe only in 1 God.

You claiming that "no other ancient semitic language." (the plural form). thats absolutely wrong. in the Quran (Arabic and Hebrew are sister languages they are both semitic) when God speaks he does it in plural form here some examples:

12:2 - Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.
76:23 - "Surely We Ourselves have revealed the Quran to you revealing (it) in portions."
15:9 - We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."

In the Quran there is no more than 1 God or some Trinity, its part of the language like Hebrew its the plural representing Majesty thats all. now your problem Christains you throwing away the rules of its language and giving meaning whatever you want, no you dont do that.

However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity),

No, Where do you find "Hashalush ( the Three) HaKadosh (the Holy)" in the Old testment? there is no "Hashalush HaKadosh" in the Hebrew Bible, just becasue you translated "Trinity" into Hebrew, it doesnt make its written in the OT.

the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead.

The next verse (Gen 1:2) speaks of the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters, followed by the first direct quote from God Himself.
"Let there be light..."

The creative activity of Elohim (God), and the presence of Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) are narrated by an omniscient Voice or Word of God.


http://www.hebrew4christians.com...



The Triune nature of the Godhead is shown in the first three verses of Genesis 1 of the Torah.



The WORD of God, or THE WORD, would be Jesus - as God incarnate - as mentioned in the New Testament:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/7/2014 8:54:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 6:53:22 PM, Toviyah wrote:
At 7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM, tosca1 wrote:
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.
In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

"In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

The word Elohim is the plural of El, and is the first name for God given in the Tanakh.

The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient semitic language. However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead.

The next verse (Gen 1:2) speaks of the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters, followed by the first direct quote from God Himself.
"Let there be light..."

The creative activity of Elohim (God), and the presence of Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) are narrated by an omniscient Voice or Word of God.


http://www.hebrew4christians.com...



The Triune nature of the Godhead is shown in the first three verses of Genesis 1 of the Torah.



The WORD of God, or THE WORD, would be Jesus - as God incarnate - as mentioned in the New Testament:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
I like these videos by IP, they walk through the Trinity in the Old and New Testaments respectively.



Clearly the man who is talking there is ignoring the Hebrew language, makes things up to suit Christain beliefs, THERE IS NO 1 EVIDENCE FOR TRINITY IN THE OLD TESTMENT. here the most common thing they bring from OT:
"I AM WHO I AM" Exodus 3:14, in Hebrew its - "aheya asher aheya" meaning - i will be whatever i will be. its not "I AM WHO I AM", this is deceptive to do so.

The word for *i am* in Hebrew is - Ani.
The word in Exodus 3:14 is *i will be* - Aheya.

by the way if you dont trust me ask jews who know Hebrew or find some Translating in the Internet...

Its a different words. sorry fail again.
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/7/2014 9:11:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.

Nop. who says so?
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lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/7/2014 9:35:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 9:11:24 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.

Nop. who says so?

Historians that study the development of religion. Judaism came from the Canaanite pantheon (El Shaddai, Ba"al, etc). When Judaism actually grew out of being tribal and into what is considered a religion it was monotheistic/henocentric (still recognized the existence of other gods), hence, why god mentions punishing the Egyptian gods in the Old Testament.

When we look at a direct translation from the Hebrew of Deuteronomy 32:8-9, we can see it says, "When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance."

Eventually the ideas of Yahweh, the god of war, and El, the god of gods, was merged into one idea, which became the monotheistic god of Judaism.

Some books that you might want to read (not the best for this, but easier to understand than most):
"Ancient Judaism: Biblical Criticism from Max Weber to the Present" By Irving M. Zeitlin
"The Evolution of God" By Robert Wright
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,490
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7/7/2014 9:53:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 9:35:37 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:11:24 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.

Nop. who says so?

Historians that study the development of religion. Judaism came from the Canaanite pantheon (El Shaddai, Ba"al, etc). When Judaism actually grew out of being tribal and into what is considered a religion it was monotheistic/henocentric (still recognized the existence of other gods), hence, why god mentions punishing the Egyptian gods in the Old Testament.

To admit i dont know the history of names of God in OT development or its influence on Judaism (from polythist environment)... but the Word "elohim - God" is plural because its representing Majesty... in Arabic we have the same thing, its part of the language to write in plurals show Majesty/Respect etc...


When we look at a direct translation from the Hebrew of Deuteronomy 32:8-9, we can see it says, "When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he separated the sons of men,
he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
For Yahweh's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance."

Eventually the ideas of Yahweh, the god of war, and El, the god of gods, was merged into one idea, which became the monotheistic god of Judaism.

Some books that you might want to read (not the best for this, but easier to understand than most):
"Ancient Judaism: Biblical Criticism from Max Weber to the Present" By Irving M. Zeitlin
"The Evolution of God" By Robert Wright

Thanks i will add to my amazon list more books to read ^^
Never fart near dog
tosca1
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7/8/2014 7:19:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.

That would make an interesting discussion....on separate thread.

However the Trinity started out, or why.....the fact remains the same: The Trinity is a Biblical teaching.

Toviyah
Posts: 88
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7/8/2014 8:48:34 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." -Deuteronomy 6:4
tosca1
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7/8/2014 9:27:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The word, "Trinity" is nowhere to be found in the Bible, yet its concept is found from beginning to end.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 Then God said,.....

26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

"And God said," gives The Word. Throughout the creation narrative, the verb "said" is repeated. The obvious implication is God - The Word - spoke the creation into existence.


The Spirit of God is shown to be a separate person from God in verse 26.

Anti-Trinitarians compare the usage of "us" to the royal "we," however, Genesis 11 neatly sinks that argument and proves once and for that indeed, the usage of "us" couldn't have been a form of the "royal we" or majestic plural.


Genesis 11
The Tower of Babel

Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there. 3 Then they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. 4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another"s speech."



The big key here is the word, "COME." And the phrase, "let us..."
The context shows it's being used as an invitation to others, or calling others.
It definitely speaks to another.

"Come, let us...."
Brendan21
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7/8/2014 9:56:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 7:19:03 AM, tosca1 wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.

That would make an interesting discussion....on separate thread.

However the Trinity started out, or why.....the fact remains the same: The Trinity is a Biblical teaching.



The origin of the Trinity is not the bible, or else all of the Abrahamic religions would share in a belief in some trinity. The Christian concept of the Trinity didn't even begin until late in the 4th century, well after Jesus and Friends deaths.
The language used in the OT is because of the history of Judaism and how it evolved from polytheistic into monotheistic, like someone earlier said. Just read the internet for facts its not hard.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/8/2014 10:45:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 8:48:34 AM, Toviyah wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." -Deuteronomy 6:4

Good job just looking at one part of the Bible instead of studying the history of religion. I am actually majoring in history, I do this sort of thing for FUN.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/8/2014 11:00:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM, tosca1 wrote:
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.
In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

"In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

The word Elohim is the plural of El, and is the first name for God given in the Tanakh.

The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient semitic language. However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for the plurality within the Godhead.

The next verse (Gen 1:2) speaks of the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters, followed by the first direct quote from God Himself.
"Let there be light..."

The creative activity of Elohim (God), and the presence of Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) are narrated by an omniscient Voice or Word of God.


http://www.hebrew4christians.com...



The Triune nature of the Godhead is shown in the first three verses of Genesis 1 of the Torah.



The WORD of God, or THE WORD, would be Jesus - as God incarnate - as mentioned in the New Testament:

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

It's amazing how God kept the Truth from deceived religious people who make His prophecies say anything they want to believe. No where in the prophecies does it say that Jesus is the Word of God. The imaginary gods of Christians came up with this conclusion.
bornofgod
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7/8/2014 11:04:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Where do you see "Jesus" in these prophecies? Our Creator is invisible and so are we as His thoughts.

Isaiah 40
28: Have you not known? Have you not heard? The LORD is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary, his understanding is unsearchable.

Isaiah 43
1: But now thus says the LORD, he who created you, O Jacob, he who formed you, O Israel: "Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by name, you are mine.
2: When you pass through the waters I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you.
3: For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior. I give Egypt as your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in exchange for you.

Isaiah 44
6: Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
24: Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth -- Who was with me? --
Toviyah
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7/8/2014 11:09:58 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 10:45:39 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/8/2014 8:48:34 AM, Toviyah wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." -Deuteronomy 6:4

Good job just looking at one part of the Bible instead of studying the history of religion. I am actually majoring in history, I do this sort of thing for FUN.

Nice! What topics are u doing?
But I've studied it too... I know that in no sense can early Judaism be considered polytheistic. The most you can conclude is henotheistic, but that's a long shot.
It also isn't just 'one part of the Bible'; the Shema was pretty much the most important early Jewish Tanakh verse.
bornofgod
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7/8/2014 11:16:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 11:09:58 AM, Toviyah wrote:
At 7/8/2014 10:45:39 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/8/2014 8:48:34 AM, Toviyah wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." -Deuteronomy 6:4

Good job just looking at one part of the Bible instead of studying the history of religion. I am actually majoring in history, I do this sort of thing for FUN.

Nice! What topics are u doing?
But I've studied it too... I know that in no sense can early Judaism be considered polytheistic. The most you can conclude is henotheistic, but that's a long shot.
It also isn't just 'one part of the Bible'; the Shema was pretty much the most important early Jewish Tanakh verse.

The only Jews who knew God were the ones who became prophets and saints. The rest of the Jews did NOT know Him so whatever Jews, Christians or Muslims teach in this world are nothing but lies. Only God can teach His people the Truth through His chosen saints.
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/8/2014 11:34:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 11:09:58 AM, Toviyah wrote:
At 7/8/2014 10:45:39 AM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/8/2014 8:48:34 AM, Toviyah wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:08:13 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
The Old Testament mentions more than one God because Judaism started out as a polytheistic religion.
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." -Deuteronomy 6:4

Good job just looking at one part of the Bible instead of studying the history of religion. I am actually majoring in history, I do this sort of thing for FUN.

Nice! What topics are u doing?
But I've studied it too... I know that in no sense can early Judaism be considered polytheistic. The most you can conclude is henotheistic, but that's a long shot.
It also isn't just 'one part of the Bible'; the Shema was pretty much the most important early Jewish Tanakh verse.

I am currently working on New Testament history, but am thinking of switching to something else. New Testament history is boring to me.

Also, maybe you should read the other post I have made. Judaism started from the Canaanite pantheon, while it was a tribal "religion" it was polytheistic. By the time it became what is called Judaism today it was henotheistic.

Jeremiah 46:25 is just ONE example of henotheistic.
"The LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "I am about to bring punishment on Amon god of Thebes, on Pharaoh, on Egypt and HER GODS and her kings, and on those who rely on Pharaoh."

Also, Genesis 1:26 shows support for early polytheistic beliefs.
"Then God said, "Let US make mankind in OUR image, in OUR likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.""
Artur
Posts: 725
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7/8/2014 11:44:00 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentionedat the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

"In the beginning, God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth."

The wordElohimis thepluralof El, and is the first name for God given in the Tanakh.
LoL. Christians usually if not always try to interprete verses in such way so that it can look like as they want, Christianity is itself based on a lie, they always need to lie.

This verse "in the beginning Gods created everything" has no relation with trinity, at most, in can be argued for polytheism, not trinity. So, if we use the logic of the authot of this thread, christianity is polytheistic religion.

So, this verse has no indication of trinity, it can mean 2 gods, 5 gods, 19, 100, 1000 and e.t.c all are possible.

In order it to indicate trinity, it needs to talk about 3, there is no, so it can be all possibilities.

The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: it occurs only in Hebrew and in no other ancient semitic language. However, considering the Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for theplurality within the Godhead.
It talks not about plural, about respect but if my christian friends want to take it as number, ok no problem. Then, it is not talking about 3 in 1 god, it is talking about more than 1 gods, which is against trinity.
The next verse (Gen 1:2) speaks of the Spirit of God hovering over the face of the waters, followed by the first direct quote from God Himself.

"Let there be light..."

The creative activity of Elohim (God), and the presence of Ruach Elohim (the Spirit of God) are narrated by an omniscient Voice or Word of God.
Does it talk aboyt trinity? Does it say god is 3 in 1? It just says spirit of god, spirit of god does not mean spirit=god.

The Triune nature of the Godhead is shown in the first three verses of Genesis 1 of the Torah.
Where? In the frist three verses? Can you quote that verses and underline the part which indicates trinity? There is no such thing.

The WORD of God, or THE WORD, would be Jesus - as God incarnate - as mentioned in the New Testament:

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The rest is pointless because NT and OT has no relation.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
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7/8/2014 12:36:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The word, "Trinity" is nowhere to be found in the Bible
right.
yet its concept is found from beginning to end.
Nowhere it or its concept exists. I had a debate here, you can read it, I very doubt that even in new testament it exists. If exists, show me.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3Then God said,"Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 Then God said,.....

26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

no concept of trinity here. Itis majestic plural, if you take it as number, then it is polytheism, not trinity. Plural is something more than one. Us is also plural, so this are plural, not trinity, trinity is considered one, not more than one.

"And God said," gives The Word.
And then? Does it mean the word GOd? God The word of trinity? It has no such meaning, all it has is interpretations of people. It does not give the word.

Throughout the creation narrative, the verb "said" is repeated. The obvious implication is God -
when I do something and repeat "said" does it mean the word I said as "said" is a seperate person? My word is a seperate person? If your statement is true, then our words are also diffrent person. It can be deduced If your logic is valid. I jope you understood how christian liars deceive you and others.

The Word - spoke the creation into existence.

The word spoke? Haha, lol. Considering this logic, If I say to my worker: "go and prepare your report" then it means I did not speak it but my words.
The Spirit of God is shown to be a separate person from God in verse 26.

Nowhere in this quote trinity's concept exists.

Anti-Trinitarians compare the usage of "us" to the royal "we," however, Genesis 11 neatly sinks that argument and proves once and for that indeed, the usage of "us" couldn't have been a form of the "royal we" or majestic plural.
Then, if that is not royal we, then it is talking about more than one gods, not trinity. Whatever gymnastic you try with, I very doubt you will be able to decieve me. If you can, do it. Challenge to christians.

Genesis 11

The Tower of Babel

Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there. 3 Then they said to one another
a clear polytheism. :) not trinity

by the way, this are all mistranslations done intentionally. In hebrew, it is not like this.

The context shows it's being used as an invitation to others, or calling others.

It definitely speaks to another.

"Come, let us...."
so, not trinity but polytheism.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
Artur
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7/8/2014 12:47:01 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Even if trinity existed in OT, that would not be trinity of christianity nor Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth is not the mashaiach foretold in the Tanakh. He is not the anointed one.

By the way, christians say Jesus is the "messiah" prophesied in OT but OT does not prophesy the "messiah", it foretells "mashaiach" which means "anointed."

seems the gospel writers were either illiterate or had no good knowledge of hebrew, since OT foretells mashaiach which means anointed they thought it is "moshaiach" which means messiah, so they wrote in thsi way, but OT talks about mashaiach, not moshaiach.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
12_13
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7/8/2014 1:16:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM, tosca1 wrote:
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.
In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

I recommend believing what Jesus said, not some farfetched human doctrines.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5
Artur
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7/8/2014 2:53:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
trinity or its concept does not exist even in new testament.
"I'm not as soft or as generous a person as I would be if the world hadn't changed me" Bobby Fischer
POPOO5560
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7/8/2014 2:54:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 2:53:13 PM, Artur wrote:
trinity or its concept does not exist even in new testament.

xD
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
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7/8/2014 2:56:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 1:16:58 PM, 12_13 wrote:
At 7/7/2014 6:46:38 PM, tosca1 wrote:
This topic was inspired by an old topic in Debate.org, "Where Did The Trinity Teaching Come From," and by other anti-Trinitarian opinion posted in several forums.

Is the Trinity a Bible teaching?
Yes, it is.
In fact, God didn't waste any time introducing the concept. The concept of the TRIUNE GOD (or what is known as the Trinity), is mentioned at the very first sentence In Genesis 1.

I recommend believing what Jesus said, not some farfetched human doctrines.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
john 17:3

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus is not God lol
Never fart near dog
shaddamcorrinoIV
Posts: 106
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7/9/2014 3:51:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The Trinity is not a biblical teaching for:

1) If the trinity existed in the Nicean sense then when Jesus died on the cross, and since Jesus is God then God also died on the cross, but since the God of the Bible is defined as immortal, and you can't kill immortals (unless you're a Highlander) the trinitarian argument negates itself.

2) Phillip Jenkins, Professor of Religion at Penn State, the author of Jesus Wars, states in the book that the passages regarding the nature of Jesus are irreconcilable. So, while I cannot unequivocally prove the trinity is false, you cannot prove the non-trinitarians wrong.

3) In the Religious Dictionary, Dr. Lyman Abbott (a professed trinitarian) states: "It was not until the beginning of the fourth century that the Trinitarian view began to be elaborated and formulated into doctrine an endeavor to made to reconcile it with the belief of the church in one god. Out of the attempt to to solve this problem sprang the doctrine of the trinity. The trinity is a very marked feature in Hinduism and is discernible in Persian, Roman, Japanese, Indian and he most ancient Grecian mythologies." Since this academic has produced research that the trinity concept evolved later than the bible was written and was burrowed from pagan mythologies and not based of any teaching of the new testament church the trinity is therefore not a biblical teaching.
Jessiethompson
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7/9/2014 10:32:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/9/2014 3:51:11 PM, shaddamcorrinoIV wrote:
The Trinity is not a biblical teaching for:

1) If the trinity existed in the Nicean sense then when Jesus died on the cross, and since Jesus is God then God also died on the cross, but since the God of the Bible is defined as immortal, and you can't kill immortals (unless you're a Highlander) the trinitarian argument negates itself.

2) Phillip Jenkins, Professor of Religion at Penn State, the author of Jesus Wars, states in the book that the passages regarding the nature of Jesus are irreconcilable. So, while I cannot unequivocally prove the trinity is false, you cannot prove the non-trinitarians wrong.

3) In the Religious Dictionary, Dr. Lyman Abbott (a professed trinitarian) states: "It was not until the beginning of the fourth century that the Trinitarian view began to be elaborated and formulated into doctrine an endeavor to made to reconcile it with the belief of the church in one god. Out of the attempt to to solve this problem sprang the doctrine of the trinity. The trinity is a very marked feature in Hinduism and is discernible in Persian, Roman, Japanese, Indian and he most ancient Grecian mythologies." Since this academic has produced research that the trinity concept evolved later than the bible was written and was burrowed from pagan mythologies and not based of any teaching of the new testament church the trinity is therefore not a biblical teaching.

My reply:
The trinity is in the bible, I will give a few examples. In the new testament it is vary much taught. (John 1:14-18) and again we see in john 14:1-6. Then in acts 1:1-8 were jesus is talking about the Holy Ghost as a gift and the disciples being witness for jesus in upmost of earth. Take all of this back to genesis 1:26-27. Who's image are we made in? Was it jesus who is part of the trinity? If you look at the Tower of Babel genesis 11:1-9 if we look at v7 let us go down, who is us? It was The Lord and The Lord is the the trinity. Now jesus name, Jesus Christ Emmanuel = LORD messiah God with us. The trinity is not taken from any other religion and is not a myth, jesus is vary much real.

http://vimeo.com... documentary it about two hours long but good on the history of jesus.