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I am about to be converted to Atheism

Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.
Ameliamk1
Posts: 13
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7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 8:42:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

That is an argument from ignorance. You say no one else could do it? What kind of evidence is that. Don't you know that a lack of evidence means the concept is False! So say the Atheist. So you have a lack of evidence suggesting the Egyptians did it. Are you aware there is only one hieroglyph any where in the Great Pyramid, and that this inscription could have been added at a later date after the construction.

No sir, no one knows who made the pyramids or why. We just do not know.


I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.


This is a false dichotomy. You suggest if we accept the Bible, we should then open the flood gates and accept all mythological accounts.

I am saying we can accept King Arthur and Beowulf, but just not anything that suggest there is a real God. Best to play it safe and only accept Buddha as existing and being ancient like 400 years BC.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

I'm not arguing with you. I completely agree. Billion year old animals have been well preserved like meat in the fridge, we can do genetic tests on these animals and see how the relate to current living animals.

And Fossils, the mineralization of organic material, preserves bones and DNA molecules converted to rock structures. So only a fool would not accept this scientific evidence.

But again the universe can make itself because there is a Law like Gravity and Thermodynamics. We can tell 100% the universe has always been an isolated system. No outside god needed.
Ameliamk1
Posts: 13
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7/7/2014 8:43:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Indeed, calling it satire was perhaps generous. But it was intended to serve a point, that the standards of knowledge and discovery of history seem to be higher for the religious then for other events. A good try, but ultimately a fruitless claim.

I'm beginning to suspect I occupy the wrong section of this site. I must've been looking for intellectuals.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 8:46:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:43:32 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
Indeed, calling it satire was perhaps generous. But it was intended to serve a point, that the standards of knowledge and discovery of history seem to be higher for the religious then for other events. A good try, but ultimately a fruitless claim.

I'm beginning to suspect I occupy the wrong section of this site. I must've been looking for intellectuals.

Yes this is a section of great Atheist intellectuals. I have not seen anything from you, signifying you belong here.
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/7/2014 8:48:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What a d*ckhead...
Ameliamk1
Posts: 13
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7/7/2014 8:48:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:46:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:43:32 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
Indeed, calling it satire was perhaps generous. But it was intended to serve a point, that the standards of knowledge and discovery of history seem to be higher for the religious then for other events. A good try, but ultimately a fruitless claim.

I'm beginning to suspect I occupy the wrong section of this site. I must've been looking for intellectuals.

Yes this is a section of great Atheist intellectuals. I have not seen anything from you, signifying you belong here.

I apologize sir, but were you the one who just condemned the making of claims not supported by evidence? Calling me stupid seems not only a waste of a post, but quite opposite to the spirit of this site. Would you be up for a debate?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 8:59:11 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:48:59 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:46:23 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:43:32 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
Indeed, calling it satire was perhaps generous. But it was intended to serve a point, that the standards of knowledge and discovery of history seem to be higher for the religious then for other events. A good try, but ultimately a fruitless claim.

I'm beginning to suspect I occupy the wrong section of this site. I must've been looking for intellectuals.

Yes this is a section of great Atheist intellectuals. I have not seen anything from you, signifying you belong here.

I apologize sir, but were you the one who just condemned the making of claims not supported by evidence? Calling me stupid seems not only a waste of a post, but quite opposite to the spirit of this site. Would you be up for a debate?

I did not call you stupid. I merely stated that I do not see any scientific evidence to convince me your level of intelligence belongs here. You are being a liar.
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/7/2014 9:04:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.

Okay, you are simply being an ignorant a**hole. I would never do something as low as this. You bring shame onto every theist out there. Grow up.
SemperVI
Posts: 294
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7/7/2014 10:01:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 9:04:48 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.

Okay, you are simply being an ignorant a**hole. I would never do something as low as this. You bring shame onto every theist out there. Grow up.

It was not ignorant at all... Perhaps you missed the point he was making.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,481
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7/7/2014 10:03:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:01:06 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:04:48 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.

Okay, you are simply being an ignorant a**hole. I would never do something as low as this. You bring shame onto every theist out there. Grow up.

xD

It was not ignorant at all... Perhaps you missed the point he was making.

He is joking...
Never fart near dog
lifemeansevolutionisgood
Posts: 551
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7/7/2014 10:07:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:01:06 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:04:48 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.

Okay, you are simply being an ignorant a**hole. I would never do something as low as this. You bring shame onto every theist out there. Grow up.

It was not ignorant at all... Perhaps you missed the point he was making.

Oh, right. The point of generalizing all atheists based off of a small handful. I do not personally know a single atheist that thinks that scientific evidence is the only reliable thing you can use.
Fanath
Posts: 830
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7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?
Dude... Stop...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 10:29:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?

None. that's what makes being an Atheist so awesome. I lack a believe in Buddha, Socrates, Pythagoras etc.. It's up to other people to argue that any of them existed or did anything for mankind.
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/7/2014 10:33:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.

You may be seeing a little light but you have a long way to go before you're out of the dark.
Fanath
Posts: 830
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7/7/2014 10:36:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:29:13 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?

None. that's what makes being an Atheist so awesome. I lack a believe in Buddha, Socrates, Pythagoras etc.. It's up to other people to argue that any of them existed or did anything for mankind.

Um... Atheism doesn't have anything to do with the existence of humans... But anyway, I'm an atheist and I do think those people DID exist. The logical fallacy you commit by saying that the BOP isn't on theists is the Burden of Proof logical fallacy. I remember you trying to make a thread on proving that atheists have BOP (lol) and that was easily rebutted by atheists on the site.
Dude... Stop...
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/7/2014 10:40:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm so glad you are trolling. Lol, my hand was hovering waiting to facepalm.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
bornofgod
Posts: 11,322
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7/7/2014 10:42:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

Why do you fear him?
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 10:45:58 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:36:51 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:29:13 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?

None. that's what makes being an Atheist so awesome. I lack a believe in Buddha, Socrates, Pythagoras etc.. It's up to other people to argue that any of them existed or did anything for mankind.

Um... Atheism doesn't have anything to do with the existence of humans... But anyway, I'm an atheist and I do think those people DID exist. The logical fallacy you commit by saying that the BOP isn't on theists is the Burden of Proof logical fallacy. I remember you trying to make a thread on proving that atheists have BOP (lol) and that was easily rebutted by atheists on the site.

That's right I was easily rebutted. I was under the impression that every claim when challenged need to present or justify it's premises and conclusion. Silly me. I now know that anything and everything to do with God or religion is a positive claim. And that KIND of claim needs BOP, any negative claim against a religious or deity claim has no BOP. I agree you are legit.

I'm still learning the ropes. I can not apply the same reasoning to people existing, unless the person is a deity or religious related. I got it now thanks for clarifying.
Fanath
Posts: 830
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7/7/2014 10:59:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:45:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:36:51 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:29:13 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?

None. that's what makes being an Atheist so awesome. I lack a believe in Buddha, Socrates, Pythagoras etc.. It's up to other people to argue that any of them existed or did anything for mankind.

Um... Atheism doesn't have anything to do with the existence of humans... But anyway, I'm an atheist and I do think those people DID exist. The logical fallacy you commit by saying that the BOP isn't on theists is the Burden of Proof logical fallacy. I remember you trying to make a thread on proving that atheists have BOP (lol) and that was easily rebutted by atheists on the site.

That's right I was easily rebutted.

I was under the impression that every claim when challenged need to present or justify it's premises and conclusion.

Um... Yeah every positive claim has BOP.

Silly me. I now know that anything and everything to do with God or religion is a positive claim.

Quote me saying this.

any negative claim against a religious or deity claim has no BOP. I agree you are legit.

Well, it depends on whether you're saying I don't believe X is true or X is definitely false. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence but it's perfectly reasonable to say that someone who makes a claim needs to prove it, rather than having someone else disprove it. Sometimes can't be disproved, not because it's a fact but because humans don't have the skills and/or technology to do so.


I'm still learning the ropes. I can not apply the same reasoning to people existing,

You can apply that to people existing. You can apply it to any positive claim. Quote me saying that you can't apply that to people existing.
Dude... Stop...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 11:06:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:59:41 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:45:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:36:51 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:29:13 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?

None. that's what makes being an Atheist so awesome. I lack a believe in Buddha, Socrates, Pythagoras etc.. It's up to other people to argue that any of them existed or did anything for mankind.

Um... Atheism doesn't have anything to do with the existence of humans... But anyway, I'm an atheist and I do think those people DID exist. The logical fallacy you commit by saying that the BOP isn't on theists is the Burden of Proof logical fallacy. I remember you trying to make a thread on proving that atheists have BOP (lol) and that was easily rebutted by atheists on the site.

That's right I was easily rebutted.

I was under the impression that every claim when challenged need to present or justify it's premises and conclusion.

Um... Yeah every positive claim has BOP.

Right and a negative claim is "God does not exist", so no BOP. But a positive claim is "God exists" and that needs a BOP.

So "Socrates didn't exist" has no BOP. I got it.


Silly me. I now know that anything and everything to do with God or religion is a positive claim.

Quote me saying this.

So what is a positive claim and what is a negative one.


any negative claim against a religious or deity claim has no BOP. I agree you are legit.

Well, it depends on whether you're saying I don't believe X is true or X is definitely false. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence but it's perfectly reasonable to say that someone who makes a claim needs to prove it, rather than having someone else disprove it. Sometimes can't be disproved, not because it's a fact but because humans don't have the skills and/or technology to do so.


Right, so I have to be careful to make sure all my claims are unfalsifiable by human skills and/or technology.


I'm still learning the ropes. I can not apply the same reasoning to people existing,

You can apply that to people existing. You can apply it to any positive claim. Quote me saying that you can't apply that to people existing.

As an Atheist what should I do if what I am saying gets misconstrued as a positive claim?
sovereigngracereigns
Posts: 585
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7/7/2014 11:15:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.

No, you are not seeing the light. You're being led astray.
And you are suppressing what nature and conscience tell you.

The bottom line is, it's clear that the natural world was created and ordered by a transcendent, all-powerful, and all-wise God, and your conscience tells you that you are guilty of sin and rebellion against God, but you suppress what nature and conscience tell you, because you are, like all of Adam's posterity, a sinner by your very nature.
But what you don't know by nature and conscience alone, is the Gospel of God's Son, Jesus Christ.
That's something that must be revealed to you by God's grace, under the preaching of his Word, the Holy Scriptures.

The fact is, your only hope of salvation lies in the free grace of God, and not in anything you might do, good or bad.

God alone can pardon sin and iniquity, and he has done so justly, by the sacrifice of his own Son, Jesus Christ.
And God alone can grant repentance and saving faith in his Son, and regenerate dead sinners by the power of the Spirit.
He has done so for a multitude of chosen sinners, and has left the rest to eat the fruit of their own ways.
And so, if God does not save you, you will be lost forever, and will suffer eternal wrath in Hell.
But if God saves you, by his sovereign, omnipotent grace, you will praise him forever and ever!

You may think you have free will, but your will is bound by your nature. And your natural will can only take you to Hell.
I pray, by the mercies of God, in his Son, Jesus Christ, that he might be pleased to save you, for Christ's sake.
Fanath
Posts: 830
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7/7/2014 11:15:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 11:06:30 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:59:41 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:45:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:36:51 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:29:13 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?

None. that's what makes being an Atheist so awesome. I lack a believe in Buddha, Socrates, Pythagoras etc.. It's up to other people to argue that any of them existed or did anything for mankind.

Um... Atheism doesn't have anything to do with the existence of humans... But anyway, I'm an atheist and I do think those people DID exist. The logical fallacy you commit by saying that the BOP isn't on theists is the Burden of Proof logical fallacy. I remember you trying to make a thread on proving that atheists have BOP (lol) and that was easily rebutted by atheists on the site.

That's right I was easily rebutted.

I was under the impression that every claim when challenged need to present or justify it's premises and conclusion.

Um... Yeah every positive claim has BOP.

Right and a negative claim is "God does not exist", so no BOP. But a positive claim is "God exists" and that needs a BOP.

So "Socrates didn't exist" has no BOP. I got it.
Like I said earlier, the person saying "Socrates definitely did not exist" is different than saying "I don 't believe Socrates existed". The reason this sounds so silly to say is because we have plenty of evidence of Socrates existing. This can't be said for God though, so comparing the two is sort of illogical...


Silly me. I now know that anything and everything to do with God or religion is a positive claim.

Quote me saying this.

So what is a positive claim and what is a negative one.


any negative claim against a religious or deity claim has no BOP. I agree you are legit.

Well, it depends on whether you're saying I don't believe X is true or X is definitely false. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence but it's perfectly reasonable to say that someone who makes a claim needs to prove it, rather than having someone else disprove it. Sometimes can't be disproved, not because it's a fact but because humans don't have the skills and/or technology to do so.


Right, so I have to be careful to make sure all my claims are unfalsifiable by human skills and/or technology.

I literally just said that it's illogical to do so... But if you're trying to be satirical (Laughing at how illogical it is to say that) then if anything this ironic because God (Not all gods, but a good number) is technically unfalsifiable.


I'm still learning the ropes. I can not apply the same reasoning to people existing,

You can apply that to people existing. You can apply it to any positive claim. Quote me saying that you can't apply that to people existing.

As an Atheist what should I do if what I am saying gets misconstrued as a positive claim?

Could you give me an example?
Dude... Stop...
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/7/2014 11:28:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 11:15:44 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 11:06:30 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:59:41 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:45:58 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:36:51 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:29:13 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:25:09 PM, Fanath wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:44:21 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:36:27 PM, Envisage wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:29:52 PM, Ameliamk1 wrote:
We know the Egyptians built the pyramids because nobody else could have done it...even so, many call the fact into question.

I could have written this satire several times better than you, but nevertheless it is a weak point: if historical documents, in this case the Bible, are to be believed, then we must also accept the Qua'ran, the Torra, Beowulf, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, and of course ancient Greek and Roman religious writings as truth. History is hard to discern, and humanity does the best it can. Even if all the people from the Bible existed, and the kingdoms existed, and it was geographically correct, it would be no more credible, or indeed divine, then any of the great Roman historians and authors.

Science is an entirely different concept. Since objects, especially ancient creatures have been preserved, we can uncover and determine the processes that allowed them to develop, to form, and yes, to evolve.

He is trolling

I make a post, I am willing and ready to defend the claims made. Shoot I forgot Atheist don't make claims. I'm still learning how to say what I want to say and not have to justify it.

I will get it eventually.

What's wrong with saying that the BOP's on the positive claim?

None. that's what makes being an Atheist so awesome. I lack a believe in Buddha, Socrates, Pythagoras etc.. It's up to other people to argue that any of them existed or did anything for mankind.

Um... Atheism doesn't have anything to do with the existence of humans... But anyway, I'm an atheist and I do think those people DID exist. The logical fallacy you commit by saying that the BOP isn't on theists is the Burden of Proof logical fallacy. I remember you trying to make a thread on proving that atheists have BOP (lol) and that was easily rebutted by atheists on the site.

That's right I was easily rebutted.

I was under the impression that every claim when challenged need to present or justify it's premises and conclusion.

Um... Yeah every positive claim has BOP.

Right and a negative claim is "God does not exist", so no BOP. But a positive claim is "God exists" and that needs a BOP.

So "Socrates didn't exist" has no BOP. I got it.
Like I said earlier, the person saying "Socrates definitely did not exist" is different than saying "I don 't believe Socrates existed". The reason this sounds so silly to say is because we have plenty of evidence of Socrates existing. This can't be said for God though, so comparing the two is sort of illogical...


Oh so as long as I prefix things with "I believe" it is automatically true.

So too much evidence for Socrates I should stick to people like Homer or Robin Hood. Because they have even less evidence than Socrates or Jesus.


Silly me. I now know that anything and everything to do with God or religion is a positive claim.

Quote me saying this.

So what is a positive claim and what is a negative one.


any negative claim against a religious or deity claim has no BOP. I agree you are legit.

Well, it depends on whether you're saying I don't believe X is true or X is definitely false. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence but it's perfectly reasonable to say that someone who makes a claim needs to prove it, rather than having someone else disprove it. Sometimes can't be disproved, not because it's a fact but because humans don't have the skills and/or technology to do so.


Right, so I have to be careful to make sure all my claims are unfalsifiable by human skills and/or technology.

I literally just said that it's illogical to do so... But if you're trying to be satirical (Laughing at how illogical it is to say that) then if anything this ironic because God (Not all gods, but a good number) is technically unfalsifiable.


But I am correct am I not. If it is unfalsifiable by human skills and/or technology then it is a negative claim and therefore does not have BOP.


I'm still learning the ropes. I can not apply the same reasoning to people existing,

You can apply that to people existing. You can apply it to any positive claim. Quote me saying that you can't apply that to people existing.

As an Atheist what should I do if what I am saying gets misconstrued as a positive claim?

Could you give me an example?

Like when I say "I believe God is imaginary" some may ask I support that with a Burden of Proof. But I can not. So I have no BOP. And that is why the statement is True and Factual right?
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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7/8/2014 12:09:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I just had a chat with the atheist overlord, you know, satan and he said your not welcome. He said he's not lowering the IQ requirement for you or anybody else.

Sorry.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
Mhykiel
Posts: 5,987
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7/8/2014 12:37:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:09:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I just had a chat with the atheist overlord, you know, satan and he said your not welcome. He said he's not lowering the IQ requirement for you or anybody else.

Sorry.

I do not believe Satan exists.

I appreciate the warm welcome into the flock, but I am planning on being a LeVay Satanist.

And LeVay Satanist do not believe in Satan or God.
bulproof
Posts: 25,168
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7/8/2014 12:49:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/8/2014 12:37:36 AM, Mhykiel wrote:
At 7/8/2014 12:09:54 AM, bulproof wrote:
I just had a chat with the atheist overlord, you know, satan and he said your not welcome. He said he's not lowering the IQ requirement for you or anybody else.

Sorry.

I do not believe Satan exists.

I appreciate the warm welcome into the flock, but I am planning on being a LeVay Satanist.

And LeVay Satanist do not believe in Satan or God.

Do whatever you like you just can't become an atheist. You've been rejected. As I said I'm sorry, but it's out of my hands.
Religion is just mind control. George Carlin
ethang5
Posts: 4,084
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7/8/2014 6:58:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/7/2014 10:07:58 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/7/2014 10:01:06 PM, SemperVI wrote:
At 7/7/2014 9:04:48 PM, lifemeansevolutionisgood wrote:
At 7/7/2014 8:13:29 PM, Mhykiel wrote:
I am so glad I have spent time in deep logical discussions with so many bright Atheist here at DDO.

I am slowly but surely accepting things that can only be verified through the scientific method.

Given the evidence just like Zeus and leprechauns I now know that Buddha, Jesus, Socrates, Herod Agrippa, the 12 Apostles, etc.. never existed.

In fact, there is no way we can know anything before 2000 years ago for sure or accurately enough to make any kind of gnostic claim. So I make no claim that those people existed or not. I am undecided till "obvious" scientific reliable evidence presents itself.

I also see no evidence the Egyptians built the Pyramids.

The only thing that is scientifically proven is that past 2000 years ago animals have been evolving. And it is a fact the Universe is an isolated system and has always been one. So natural processes account for everything we see today.

Thank you I am seeing the light.

Okay, you are simply being an ignorant a**hole. I would never do something as low as this. You bring shame onto every theist out there. Grow up.

It was not ignorant at all... Perhaps you missed the point he was making.

Oh, right. The point of generalizing all atheists based off of a small handful. I do not personally know a single atheist that thinks that scientific evidence is the only reliable thing you can use.

One word "debateuser". Or DU'h, (pronounced like D'oh! See Homer Simpson) as he is commonly known.