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Pearlism

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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2/22/2010 11:37:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Physical
Evidence
And
Reasoned
Logic

Just thought this was interesting. A broader term than Atheism. Rejects the concept of faith and is defined by what it does believe rather than what it doesn't.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
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2/22/2010 11:48:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
That's funny. I was already in the middle of that exact video just before you created this forum topic.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
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Volkov
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2/22/2010 11:54:28 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
His original premise - that you call people by what they believe, not what they don't, and that atheism doesn't fall under this category - is folly. Hence why I stopped right after that.

For his premise to be true, it must be accepted positively that a deity exists, and that atheism must not be an accurate descriptor because it is affirming the rejection of that deity's existence.

This makes no sense. It is actually the opposite of what atheism is, because atheism is the position that no deities exist. In order for it to be a simple "rejection," you must set up an objective point from which to call it a "rejection"; meaning that you must accept that deities exist as an objective truth in order for you to call it "rejection," because otherwise, it simply stays a separate belief as it is subjective.

It works the same way with other beliefs; you don't call Hinduism "rejection of Christianity," because it simply is another subjective belief, even though it does indeed reject the tenets of Christianity. This works the same way with atheism; even though it is a rejection of Christianity and other deities, it is still just another subjective belief. The only way you can consider it only a "rejection" is if you believe deities are real!
FREEDO
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2/22/2010 11:54:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/22/2010 11:48:16 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
That's funny. I was already in the middle of that exact video just before you created this forum topic.

It's a sign from GOD!
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
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2/23/2010 12:05:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/22/2010 11:54:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
His original premise - that you call people by what they believe, not what they don't, and that atheism doesn't fall under this category - is folly. Hence why I stopped right after that.

Aw, you should watch the rest, that's not what it's all about.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/23/2010 7:59:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
physical evidence: Science

reasoned argument (logic): Philosophy

why don't you just say Reasonable people instead of The Pearly Ones...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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2/23/2010 8:07:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 7:59:01 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
physical evidence: Science

reasoned argument (logic): Philosophy

why don't you just say Reasonable people instead of The Pearly Ones...

Science: 'to know'..

Philosophy 'love of wisdom'..

Neither term precludes faith or religious thinking at all.
The Cross.. the Cross.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/23/2010 8:13:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 8:07:00 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/23/2010 7:59:01 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
physical evidence: Science

reasoned argument (logic): Philosophy

why don't you just say Reasonable people instead of The Pearly Ones...

Science: 'to know'..

Philosophy 'love of wisdom'..

Neither term precludes faith or religious thinking at all.

If you embrace Philosophy (that is; Reasoned Argument) you cannot support Religious (that is; unreasonable) Ideas.

If one first accepts Religious thinking, then they can reason given those ideas, but there is no support for them themselves. They have to just be taken as given.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
belle
Posts: 4,113
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2/23/2010 8:21:05 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/22/2010 11:54:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
His original premise - that you call people by what they believe, not what they don't, and that atheism doesn't fall under this category - is folly. Hence why I stopped right after that.

For his premise to be true, it must be accepted positively that a deity exists, and that atheism must not be an accurate descriptor because it is affirming the rejection of that deity's existence.

This makes no sense. It is actually the opposite of what atheism is, because atheism is the position that no deities exist. In order for it to be a simple "rejection," you must set up an objective point from which to call it a "rejection"; meaning that you must accept that deities exist as an objective truth in order for you to call it "rejection," because otherwise, it simply stays a separate belief as it is subjective.

It works the same way with other beliefs; you don't call Hinduism "rejection of Christianity," because it simply is another subjective belief, even though it does indeed reject the tenets of Christianity. This works the same way with atheism; even though it is a rejection of Christianity and other deities, it is still just another subjective belief. The only way you can consider it only a "rejection" is if you believe deities are real!

um no.
while some atheists may claim that no deities exist, it is an extremely tenuous definition and almost impossible to defend philosophically.

hence, atheism is generally defined as the absence of belief, or lack of belief in god. it is a negation of claims made by theists since they are generally unsupported by evidence and logic. atheism has no positive claims of its own.

PEARLism takes that idea and defines the positive beliefs (physical evidence, reasoned logic) that lead one to the negative claims regarding religious matters.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/23/2010 8:23:30 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 8:21:05 AM, belle wrote:

PEARLism takes that idea and defines the positive beliefs (physical evidence, reasoned logic) that lead one to the negative claims regarding religious matters.

How is Reasoned Logic a "belief"

I thought it was the means of scrutinizing/evaluating "belief".
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Volkov
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2/23/2010 8:30:02 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 8:21:05 AM, belle wrote:
PEARLism takes that idea and defines the positive beliefs (physical evidence, reasoned logic) that lead one to the negative claims regarding religious matters.

That's absolutely stupid because "physical evidence and reasoned logic" are NOT "beliefs" - they're criteria. You don't BELIEVE in physical evidence - you use it to determine a belief, but it does not represent a position or stance on a subject. And that is what a belief is - a position.

Atheism is the position that there are no deities. It's a positive affirmation of a position which you're lead to through using the criteria of physical evidence and logic and all that other good stuff. That constitutes it being a belief. Pearlism is... well, its nothing, lol.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/23/2010 8:51:01 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 8:30:02 AM, Volkov wrote:

Atheism is the position that there are no deities.

mmm... I don't Believe in God/s but I wouldn't say I know that there can't be a God.

Also, I don't have an absolute Belief that there absolutely is physical reality.
- it's a reasonable assumption of mine :)

It's a positive affirmation of a position which you're lead to through using the criteria of physical evidence and logic and all that other good stuff. That constitutes it being a belief.

I think that's what ppl call strong Atheism

I'm anti-theism, like against the belief in god, because there's no reason to think there is one.

People generally call this Atheist.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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2/23/2010 10:44:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 8:13:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/23/2010 8:07:00 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/23/2010 7:59:01 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
physical evidence: Science

reasoned argument (logic): Philosophy

why don't you just say Reasonable people instead of The Pearly Ones...

Science: 'to know'..

Philosophy 'love of wisdom'..

Neither term precludes faith or religious thinking at all.

If you embrace Philosophy (that is; Reasoned Argument) you cannot support Religious (that is; unreasonable) Ideas.

did Albert Einstien not embrace Reasoned Arguments? does Steven Hawking reject Resoned Argument?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/23/2010 11:02:08 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
:At 2/23/2010 10:44:59 AM, Marauder wrote:
:did Albert Einstien not embrace Reasoned Arguments?
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)
:does Steven Hawking reject Resoned Argument?
What I have done is to show that it is possible for the way the universe began to be determined by the laws of science. In that case, it would not be necessary to appeal to God to decide how the universe began. This doesn't prove that there is no God, only that God is not necessary. [Stephen W. Hawking, Der Spiegel, 1989]


"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." hawking

I'd say they seem pretty reasonable :)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/23/2010 11:17:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Someone says:
Quantum Physics

Einstein says:
GOD DOES NOT PLAY DICE!!!!!!!!!
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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2/23/2010 11:19:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 8:23:30 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/23/2010 8:21:05 AM, belle wrote:

PEARLism takes that idea and defines the positive beliefs (physical evidence, reasoned logic) that lead one to the negative claims regarding religious matters.

How is Reasoned Logic a "belief"

I thought it was the means of scrutinizing/evaluating "belief".

one does not have belief in the efficacy of those methods?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/23/2010 11:20:38 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. (Albert Einstein)

This is more a Daoist-like idea of something existing beyond our possible comprehension which manifests itself in and causes that reality which we do observe.

I wouldn't call it Religious as much as a philosophical necessity.

It is the incomprehensible which gives rise to our ordered "reality" though we cannot talk about that Incomprehensible thing, only our reality.

Thus you get his next quote where he embraces those knowable patterns/manifestations.

If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

Much like Zhuangzi :)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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2/23/2010 11:25:15 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 11:19:13 AM, belle wrote:

one does not have belief in the efficacy of those methods?

Eh, I suppose.

Though where does that belief come from?

I would think from reason in some form...

and so it's a natural assumption/belief, one dictated by how we are.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
belle
Posts: 4,113
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2/23/2010 11:38:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 11:25:15 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/23/2010 11:19:13 AM, belle wrote:

one does not have belief in the efficacy of those methods?

Eh, I suppose.

Though where does that belief come from?

I would think from reason in some form...

and so it's a natural assumption/belief, one dictated by how we are.

its based off an assumption somewhere, though one well supported by experience (ever get out of bed to a world that didn't follow physical laws as you understand them? lol)

in any case its exceedingly hard to actually prove beyond a doubt.

but the point about pearlism is that is a worldview, counter to the theistic worldview, rather than a simple negation of theistic claims.
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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2/24/2010 3:45:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 2/23/2010 8:13:18 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 2/23/2010 8:07:00 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 2/23/2010 7:59:01 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
physical evidence: Science

reasoned argument (logic): Philosophy

why don't you just say Reasonable people instead of The Pearly Ones...

Science: 'to know'..

Philosophy 'love of wisdom'..

Neither term precludes faith or religious thinking at all.

If you embrace Philosophy (that is; Reasoned Argument) you cannot support Religious (that is; unreasonable) Ideas.

As already stated philosophy means love (philo) of wisdom, (sophy) and has nothing what so ever to do with human reason.

If one first accepts Religious thinking, then they can reason given those ideas, but there is no support for them themselves. They have to just be taken as given.

On the contrary, my faith is based on the Gospels and (to a lesser extent) the old testament; these are first hand accounts of people who had a relationship with God and with His human Incarnation, Jesus Christ.

These confirm the relationshiop I personally have with the Holy Spirit.
The Cross.. the Cross.