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Islam and Jihad

CJKAllstar
Posts: 408
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7/11/2014 2:32:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Discuss.
"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind." - George Orwell
Envisage
Posts: 3,646
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7/11/2014 2:37:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 2:32:16 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Discuss.

You really have to split hairs to see where the jihadists of today are violating quranic principles... If at all.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/11/2014 4:01:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
God has given Muslims a Sign: Saif al Salam, the Sword of Peace and true Sword of Jihad. When Muslims understand this Sign from God and obey God's instruction then we will have real Islam and not the cheap imitation copy of Muhammad's making where "sacrifice to God as Peace" became sacrifice of mind and body to Muhammad's Empire.
Mineva
Posts: 336
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7/11/2014 4:16:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 2:32:16 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse

Hi,

I wont discuss about the verses, there are plenty of topiccs about these and similar issues.
I just want to say that the translation in parentheses is ludicrously irrelevant with the original meaning : )

Peace ...
Mineva
Posts: 336
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7/11/2014 4:23:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 2:32:16 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Ops, this is wrong too, I dont know where you got these translations but its clear they dont like Islam so much.

Salaam ...
HPWKA
Posts: 401
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7/11/2014 4:25:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Here is the posting of the full context/translation in sequence by ayah.

(2-190) Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.

(2-191) And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Sacred Mosque until they first attack you there, but if they attack you, then slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.

(2-192) But if they desist, then lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

(2-193) And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.

These verses are where many Jihadist groups turn too for legitimacy of their struggle, though it can be debated if they actually follow the guidelines.

On the whole however, these requirements for Muslims waging war seem to be fairly reasonable.
Feelings are the fleeting fancy of fools.
The search for truth in a world of lies is the only thing that matters.
Fatihah
Posts: 7,741
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7/11/2014 5:06:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 2:32:16 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Discuss.

Response: Let's read the verse right before it.

"Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors." (2:190)

Thus the verses refer to self-defense against those who attack you. Self-explanatory.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/11/2014 6:06:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 2:32:16 PM, CJKAllstar wrote:
Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...
but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Discuss.

Read verse 190 lol out of context, secondly the word 'fitnah' doesnt mean 'disbelieve', but - corruption,temptation,sedition etc...
Never fart near dog
Mineva
Posts: 336
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7/11/2014 6:29:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 6:06:46 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Read verse 190 lol out of context, secondly the word 'fitnah' doesnt mean 'disbelieve', but :- corruption,temptation,sedition etc...

Hi,

I checked the sources for this translation and I have just come across with atheist and jewish forums : ) What a coincidence.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/11/2014 6:56:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
We see the Muslims here unable to tell right from wrong, or think at at critically about their beliefs as they SWALLOW without question the ideas of a 7th century warlord killer caravan thief who himself swallowed the phony myths of origin of Jews.

It does not matter at all what you think about the translations of garbage ideas in the first place that are based on lies being presented as truths and let us never forget being based on the Strong Man Warlord Killer Ape Fascist Ideology pretending to be instructions from God. No one but Muslims are fooled by the phony Warlord Dictator Tot and his clones who can't think as human beings anymore, just puppets and tape-recorders spewing out lines from their Quran Script that they read as these were real teaching fit for human consumption in the 21st Century where Human Rights and not religious dogma protecting killers goes unchallenged and is obeyed by robots instead of humans.

As long as you Muslims cannot think by yourselves without resorting to your Script to do your thinking for you, you are all a danger to the world as you don't seem to realize that you've joined a fascist organization that has the same rules as does the Mafia and behaves the same way whenever given any political power.
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/11/2014 7:09:04 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 6:29:30 PM, Mineva wrote:
At 7/11/2014 6:06:46 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Read verse 190 lol out of context, secondly the word 'fitnah' doesnt mean 'disbelieve', but :- corruption,temptation,sedition etc...

Hi,

I checked the sources for this translation and I have just come across with atheist and jewish forums : ) What a coincidence.

Hi.. yeah amazing coincidence :) everybody thumb sucking the same rubbish from somewhere.. someone made it famous... they see only what they want to see. If you go to well known sites news (in isreal yeah...) like mako.co.il or walla.co.il, you can see the hatred against muslims islam and quran... 200 comments and all anti muslims maybe one or two with sound stuff... the fact they never read the quran makes more ridiculous to reply... there is a pro jews site, and facebook.. whenever they mentioning islam, they adding some hitler or nazi bullsh1t together... islam hurts them so much lol they cant see daily problems they have to bash illusionary threat call 'islam'. Brainwashed too deeply inside
Never fart near dog
POPOO5560
Posts: 2,487
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7/11/2014 7:15:27 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 6:29:30 PM, Mineva wrote:
At 7/11/2014 6:06:46 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Read verse 190 lol out of context, secondly the word 'fitnah' doesnt mean 'disbelieve', but :- corruption,temptation,sedition etc...

Hi,

I checked the sources for this translation and I have just come across with atheist and jewish forums : ) What a coincidence.

And jay smith always in his debates mentioning these verses starting from verse 191 (ignoring verse 190) and the word fitnah as disbelieve... over and over again... his lies have no end that funny guy :)
Never fart near dog
Mineva
Posts: 336
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7/11/2014 7:18:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 7:09:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Hi.. yeah amazing coincidence :) everybody thumb sucking the same rubbish from :somewhere.. someone made it famous... they see only what they want to see. If you go :to well known sites news (in isreal yeah...) like mako.co.il or walla.co.il, you can see the :hatred against muslims islam and quran... 200 comments and all anti muslims maybe :one or two with sound stuff... the fact they never read the quran makes more :ridiculous to reply... there is a pro jews site, and facebook.. whenever they mentioning :islam, they adding some hitler or nazi bullsh1t together... islam hurts them so much lol :they cant see daily problems they have to bash illusionary threat call 'islam'. :Brainwashed too deeply inside

This is their choice, I would like to be friend with them, there are also jewish persons in my school and they are afraid of me : ) they are going away when they see me around LoL, but one of them is a cute and funny girl, her name is Rahel, I'm fine with her, also I protect her against a few persons.
skinker
Posts: 345
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7/11/2014 11:34:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/11/2014 7:09:04 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
At 7/11/2014 6:29:30 PM, Mineva wrote:
At 7/11/2014 6:06:46 PM, POPOO5560 wrote:
Read verse 190 lol out of context, secondly the word 'fitnah' doesnt mean 'disbelieve', but :- corruption,temptation,sedition etc...

Hi,

I checked the sources for this translation and I have just come across with atheist and jewish forums : ) What a coincidence.

Hi.. yeah amazing coincidence :) everybody thumb sucking the same rubbish from somewhere.. someone made it famous... they see only what they want to see. If you go to well known sites news (in isreal yeah...) like mako.co.il or walla.co.il, you can see the hatred against muslims islam and quran... 200 comments and all anti muslims maybe one or two with sound stuff... the fact they never read the quran makes more ridiculous to reply... there is a pro jews site, and facebook.. whenever they mentioning islam, they adding some hitler or nazi bullsh1t together... islam hurts them so much lol they cant see daily problems they have to bash illusionary threat call 'islam'. Brainwashed too deeply inside

The hatred against Muslims and the Quran is EARNED every day by Muslims themselves producing reasons to hate the religion of war that is Muhammadism. And get a clue, Muslims, that it isn't a political attack by Jews against your dinosaur religion as I for one have run an anti-Zionist, pro-Palestinian blog for many years and have many Palestinian friends, Christian and Muslim. The Tent of Nations, a Palestinians peace activist eco-village was attacked by IDF a month ago and 1500 fruit and olive trees destroyed by bulldozers and the whole place locked down with Tent of Nations unable to build anything now as Israel covets their land for another racist Jewish settlement.

Tent of Nations Palestinians, Holy Land Trust Palestinians, Nazarean Christian Palestinians all recognized the spiritual power of Saif al Salam, but here you Muslims can't see it as you also are unaware of the moral chasm in Muhammad's ideology that promotes human killers for such disgusting male chauvinist reasons as someone giving a warlord an insult or a killer Muslim and insult. Every day in the West millions of Adults enjoy comedy shows where insults are flying right and left, and even us Christians can enjoy Buddy Jesus mocking the fundy Evangelical Jesus Freaks, but not your baby Muslims, too immature to deal with human behavior in an adult manner, your brain's rage centers trained by Muhammad to fire whenever anyone draws a mustache on the GREAT INVISIBLE OZ..